England is Vanishing...

[Catananche]

Pah, anyway, the article interchanged English/British too frequently for me to take it seriously. Poor journalism.

This Scottish/British girl needs to put the kettle on (and now I'm wishing I had some of that Polish bread with the custard in it.....)

 

[hildasmuriel]

The second most common name for a baby boy born in England is Mohammed.

Sorry, I think your statistics were typoed - Mohammed was the twenty-second most popular name in England and Wales last year. It has stayed around the 20 - 23 mark for the last 5 years.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp

 

[Feralpeg]

There are of course bad areas and good areas but even the bad areas aren't THAT bad. Put it this way: I've never ever been anywhere in the UK where I'd been genuinely afraid for my safety.

Which college is your DD going to?

She'll be in a study abroad program through Florida State University. They have an extension program in London. She will stay there and actually do some teaching in a London school.

 

[Kath2003]

The second most common name for a baby boy born in England is Mohammed.

No. Sorry. I think it's Jack.

This isn't a problem that is confined to England, but one that will eventually impact all of Europe. With the birthrate of Italy, Greece, Spain, France, hovering around 1.4 to 1.6, well below the "replacement rate", and the birthrate of Muslim immigrants between 3.8 and 4.2, it is easy to see that this is a demographic issue that will tilt the scales towards a Eurabia. By 2050, 60% of Italians will have no brrothers, no sisters, no cousins, no aunts no uncles. The big Italian family with papa pouring the vino and mama spooning pasta to an endless supply of extended family will be a thing of the past. So where will the future population come from? From people who are at odds with the modern world. Despite the self denigrating and loathing that many have for Western Civilization, it has been the biggest boon to mankind since Adam and Eve were thrown out of the Garden of Eden. Do we really want to see that go the way of the buggy whip? I would suggest that anyone who has the least bit of interest in this subject read Mark Styne's book, America Alone.

"self denigerating and loathing that many have for Western Civilization" You are talking about a tiny, tiny majority. The vast majority of Muslims have never thought these thoughts any more than the vast majority of the western civilization have never thought these thoughts towards Muslims.

The birth rate for eastern religions - ALL of them - are roughly similar to Muslims. That means that there will be as many new children born to Buddhists, Sikh's, Hindus etc. as there will children to Muslim parents. They are not "at odds with the modern world" in the slightest. Many of these religions far, far out date modern Christianity (which is predominant in the western world) and they have survived so far on the whole very peacefully.

I really, really think you actually should meet some people from these religions because you're horribly, horribly stereotyping them based on a tiny minority. That's like me saying "All white people are white supremacists". They're not. It's factually untrue. And it's unfair, grossly unfair, to say to you, me, and every other white person in the global population that that is the case.

 

[Kath2003]

She'll be in a study abroad program through Florida State University. They have an extension program in London. She will stay there and actually do some teaching in a London school.

London's great (although expensive) - she'll have an amazing time.

 

[Feralpeg]

London's great (although expensive) - she'll have an amazing time.

I'm sure she will. The dorm, she's been told, is not far from Buckingham Palace. I just received my passport, so I am planning a visit while she is there. Don't worry! I'll alert all of you folks before I land!!!

 

[Kath2003]

I'm sure she will. The dorm, she's been told, is not far from Buckingham Palace. I just received my passport, so I am planning a visit while she is there. Don't worry! I'll alert all of you folks before I land!!!

Awesome, do you know where the dorm is? I'll let you know what the area's like. When is she moving over?

 

[eclectics]

Sorry, I think your statistics were typoed - Mohammed was the twenty-second most popular name in England and Wales last year. It has stayed around the 20 - 23 mark for the last 5 years.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp

In the biased, anti-muslim sources I'm sure Dawn frequents, it probably is #1. Doesn't make it correct or factual, of course. Those fear mongering sources usually aren't.

 

[DawnCt1]

Sorry, I think your statistics were typoed - Mohammed was the twenty-second most popular name in England and Wales last year. It has stayed around the 20 - 23 mark for the last 5 years.
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/specials/babiesnames_boys.asp

I actually had read it a while back. Here is the link. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1890354.ece
From The Times
June 6, 2007
Muhammad is No 2 in boy's names
Helen Nugent and Nadia Menuhin
Explore The Times Book of Names and discover what your name says about you

Muhammad is now second only to Jack as the most popular name for baby boys in Britain and is likely to rise to No 1 by next year, a study by The Times has found. The name, if all 14 different spellings are included, was shared by 5,991 newborn boys last year, beating Thomas into third place, followed by Joshua and Oliver.

Scholars said that the name’s rise up the league table was driven partly by the growing number of young Muslims having families, coupled with the desire to name their child in honour of the Prophet.

 

[katerkat]

Why did the article mention Belfast? That is certainly not in England.

That's where it (the article) was written. So, for example, I could write an op-ed piece about England, and it would be passed around with "EASTERN WASHINGTON, USA -- " in the header like Belfast is. Now, would anyone take me seriously, as I haven't been to England in 11 or so years....?

My husband swings through every couple of months on his way overseas and he likes you guys a lot. He's trying to convince me to put Mildenhall at the top of our "will move to" list. I do not so much like being cold and wet. But I'd love to travel around Europe and England is a great starting point. (Well, better than nowhere Washington, at least!)

 

[Mugg Mann]

edited

 

[DawnCt1]

No. Sorry. I think it's Jack.



"self denigerating and loathing that many have for Western Civilization" You are talking about a tiny, tiny majority. The vast majority of Muslims have never thought these thoughts any more than the vast majority of the western civilization have never thought these thoughts towards Muslims.

The birth rate for eastern religions - ALL of them - are roughly similar to Muslims. That means that there will be as many new children born to Buddhists, Sikh's, Hindus etc. as there will children to Muslim parents. They are not "at odds with the modern world" in the slightest. Many of these religions far, far out date modern Christianity (which is predominant in the western world) and they have survived so far on the whole very peacefully.

I really, really think you actually should meet some people from these religions because you're horribly, horribly stereotyping them based on a tiny minority. That's like me saying "All white people are white supremacists". They're not. It's factually untrue. And it's unfair, grossly unfair, to say to you, me, and every other white person in the global population that that is the case.

Self denegrating does not refer to the view that Muslims have of Western Civilization but the view that "westerners" often have of themselves. Note the word "self". I also am not referring to those from other religions and cultures that have integrated into Western culture, live peacefully among their host countries, participate in the economy and education, nor those Muslims that have. The United States has actually done a far better job than Europe integrating Muslims into our country. I am literally talking about those people who are at odds with the modern world. That want to introduce sharia law into western countries, and are not culturally integrated in the least.

 

[Kath2003]

I actually had read it a while back. Here is the link. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1890354.ece
From The Times
June 6, 2007
Muhammad is No 2 in boy's names
Helen Nugent and Nadia Menuhin
Explore The Times Book of Names and discover what your name says about you

Muhammad is now second only to Jack as the most popular name for baby boys in Britain and is likely to rise to No 1 by next year, a study by The Times has found. The name, if all 14 different spellings are included, was shared by 5,991 newborn boys last year, beating Thomas into third place, followed by Joshua and Oliver.

Scholars said that the name’s rise up the league table was driven partly by the growing number of young Muslims having families, coupled with the desire to name their child in honour of the Prophet.

Ah okay, I see now, they included all the spellings. That's fair enough, then.

My question: Why do you [plural] care what people name their children in the UK? Why do you [plural] care what religion people are? Why is the fact that more people in the UK are naming their child after their prophet a bad thing?

Other than the fact that it's going to be great fun for teachers in a few years time when they have 2 Mohammed's in every class.

 

[TCPluto]

In the biased, anti-muslim sources I'm sure Dawn frequents, it probably is #1. Doesn't make it correct or factual, of course. Those fear mongering sources usually aren't.

You'll be apologizing now, right??

I actually had read it a while back. Here is the link. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1890354.ece
From The Times
June 6, 2007
Muhammad is No 2 in boy's names
Helen Nugent and Nadia Menuhin
Explore The Times Book of Names and discover what your name says about you

Muhammad is now second only to Jack as the most popular name for baby boys in Britain and is likely to rise to No 1 by next year, a study by The Times has found. The name, if all 14 different spellings are included, was shared by 5,991 newborn boys last year, beating Thomas into third place, followed by Joshua and Oliver.

Scholars said that the name’s rise up the league table was driven partly by the growing number of young Muslims having families, coupled with the desire to name their child in honour of the Prophet.

 

[hildasmuriel]

Other than the fact that it's going to be great fun for teachers in a few years time when they have 2 Mohammed's in every class.

Actually it doesn't seem to cause too many problems - very few boys in our school use the name Mohammed, although lots have it as their first name. They are known either by their surname or their middle name instead.
It seems similar to all the sikh boys having 'singh' included in their names, or most of the sikh girls having 'kaur' - it is just an honorary thing and is not what they are known as.

 

[dcentity2000]

The recent 2001 census pegged ethnic minorities at 4,150,000 citizens out of approximately 60,587,000 (2006), which equals about 6.8%.

I *think* those calculations are right, I've been a bit hazy with the ol' maths recently.

The UK is one of the FASTEST growing multiethnic cultures in the world and you know what? We're all the richer for it.



Rich::

 

[Kath2003]

I am literally talking about those people who are at odds with the modern world. That want to introduce sharia law into western countries, and are not culturally integrated in the least.

Right, so you are talking about a tiny minority. I'm really not sure what your point is? The UK is falling to pieces because a tiny minority of Muslims, who make up a minority of the global population, are invading?

 

[dcentity2000]

I'd also like to add that according to 2006 national statistics, the most popular boys names are:

1. Jack
2. Thomas
3. Joshua
4. Oliver
5. Harry
6. James
7. William
8. Samuel
9. Daniel
10. Charlie
11. Benjamin
12. Joseph
13. Callum
14. George
15. Jake
16. Alfie
17. Luke
18. Matthew
19. Ethan
20. Lewis
21. Jacob
22. Mohammed
23. Dylan
24. Alexander
25. Ryan

For a complete listing, click here: Clicky.

Note that Mohammed was 22nd in 2002, 22nd in 2003, 20th in 2004, 23rd in 2005 and back to 22nd in 2006, so no real change.



Rich::

 

[Kath2003]

I'd also like to add that according to 2006 national statistics, the most popular boys names are:

1. Jack
2. Thomas
3. Joshua
4. Oliver
5. Harry
6. James
7. William
8. Samuel
9. Daniel
10. Charlie
11. Benjamin
12. Joseph
13. Callum
14. George
15. Jake
16. Alfie
17. Luke
18. Matthew
19. Ethan
20. Lewis
21. Jacob
22. Mohammed
23. Dylan
24. Alexander
25. Ryan

For a complete listing, click here: Clicky.

Note that Mohammed was 22nd in 2002, 22nd in 2003, 20th in 2004, 23rd in 2005 and back to 22nd in 2006, so no real change.



Rich::

The figure is 2nd when you include all the spellings (of which there are many!).

 

[DawnCt1]

Right, so you are talking about a tiny minority. I'm really not sure what your point is? The UK is falling to pieces because a tiny minority of Muslims, who make up a minority of the global population, are invading?

No, the demographics of England and Europe are such that in a few years there will not be a tiny minority but a majority population. The first countries that will see a Muslim majority are Italy and Spain. I find it interesting that those who have cited Real Clear Politics in the past are dismissing the essence of this article. I think that this is a particularly good quote;
"The problem for Britain and the United States isn't just the change in demographics. It is the reluctance of both countries to inculcate the beliefs, history and, yes, religious ideals, which made our nations so successful that others wanted to come and be a part of them. The difference between many of the current immigrants and those of the past is that the previous ones wanted to become fully American or fully British. The current ones, in too many cases, would destroy what makes our countries unique. And the "leaders" of Britain and America refuse to stop it."