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[Cindy B]

Is that an offshoot of NCLB???
I've always thought that the teacher unions (through political means) put in a large barrier of entry for "non-traditional" teachers as a means for job security.

Yes, it is an offshoot of NCLB.

In my case, I am just about to be a certified teacher. I will have all my coursework completed in just about four weeks.

Because of NCLB, I had to complete a dual major program. Nowadays (complete with my state) any education major since 2005 or so needs to have an adequate dual major to become highly qualified.

So just to receive my teaching credential I had to have an elementary education major and either a writing major, american history major, spanish major, or math/science major.

Not to mention Praxis exams. To date I have had to take 6 yes 6 exams just to prove highly qualified status besides my dual major. Each exam is $90-$120.

I have over 150 college credits just for a bachelor's degree.

 

[tar heel]

Our recently retired school superintendent said that testing the EC kids who had no hope of ever passing was the saddest thing he had ever seen done in public schools -- taking a child who has made great educational strides and who is working very hard and telling him he's a failure.

 

[Cindy B]

The basic problem with the way NCLB has been implemented is that it makes the assumption that the reason kids aren't learning is that schools are too lazy to teach them right.

Seriously. That's what it assumes. They say to inner-city schools with major problems and no money, "Hey, if you guys would just teach these basic skills, the kids would learn just fine. Teach them right and the test scores will come up."

But when the scores DON'T come up, the schools are punished in ways that ensure the school will become even less able to teach effectively.

So schools have learned to cheat. One way is "triage"... focus all your attention and resources on the kids who are falling just below the standards. The ones who are way behind... well, no use wasting time on them, they're a lost cause. The ones who are already meeting standards.... no point in challenging them, just make sure they show up on testing day so their scores go into the school's figures.

And to avoid being classified as a failing school, administrators have wasted a lot of time figuring out ways to tweak the scores and make statistics work for them. See if you can't manage to exclude some of your problem students, or get them included in a different group when looking at scores. Better yet, get them to go to another school (or just to SAY they're going to another school, when they're actually dropping out).

So what's wrong with NCLB? Not the standards and not the testing.... but the assumption that if we get rid of the schools that don't improve their test scores, effective schools will magically spring up to take their places and will be able to take the failing students (from the dead ineffective school) and solve all their problems by just teaching 'em right.

You are so correct.

I've seen administrators "tweak" or subdivide results so the school can meet the safe harbor criterion.

I'm in an inner city school. The triage set up is so correct. I can only do so much but with the set scripted curriculum I can NOT enrich my few higher level learners.

My school has failed the tests for over four years. The state is involved, and a specific state run organization is also involved (CAPA). It is awful.

The school and district gets so much money, so many programs, so much grant work from the state and NOTHING gets done. I'm trying my best with my education and my background but there are the one foot out the door tenured teachers that don't want to try computerized based programs because "its too much work" or "I don't know how".

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Testing, testing, testing, doesn't make a good student. We took our daughter out of school because of NCLB. We homeschool because she wasn't learning, just having severe anxiety about all the timed tests and practice tests and teaching to the test. At home she's learning very well and the stress is gone.

 

[NotUrsula]

The biggest objection is that it is an unfunded mandate. The Feds came up with all these standards that had to be met, but gave the states no money to fund the effort.

In my view, one of the biggest problems with it is that the test itself is not mandated -- there is no one national test. The states pick which existing test that they want to use, then they tailor what they teach to fit the material that is on that particular test. It's the tail wagging the dog.

IMO, we need to take a lesson from other countries (just about ALL of the ones that are doing better than we are in terms of educational achievement), and create a National Curriculum. That standard would apply for what would be considered the core subjects in each grade, and it would be uniform throughout the entire country: then one identical test could be used in every public school in the US for a given grade level. If you pass it in Texas you would pass it in Rhode Island, too. Moving would not matter because each school would be covering the same material on the same schedule in a given grade.

For an example: this is the National Curriculum in the UK for the primary grades: http://curriculum.qca.org.uk/key-stages-1-and-2/subjects/index.aspx

As you can see if you look at that, there are extra subjects that a district can choose to teach that are not required. There is still a certain amount of freedom to explore, but the standard is universal, which makes things so much less confusing for parents and teachers, and for that matter, for children.

 

[agnes!]

OP -

You are very lucky that you have had no issues with the NCLB Act.

Imo, it is a good idea gone awry, an unfunded Federal mandate foisted upon the backs of the states and enforced through the major stick of the localities getting Federal educational funds. The only reason that the schools get their knickers in a twist over attendance is because attendance is connected to how many kids are in the seats. Some localities TELL the parents to do everything in their power to have their kids at school on certain days *because* that is when they do the classroom census for the funding.

To the parent with the child who had poor handwriting? When they get to Middle School and High School, NOTHING is hand-written. EVERYTHING is done on the computer, at home or in the classroom. My DD hasn't submitted a handwritten paper for at least the past 5 or 7 years (she's in 10th grade). Now the hand-eye coordination and the hand-control....that is slightly troublesome. If the school tries to put you off, investigate how much testing for your DD's issues would cost you and which professionals in your area the school will accept. (In other words, don't go to all the trouble/time/money and then find out the school system won't accept your professional's findings.)

agnes!

 

[dejr_8]

no comment

 

[Lauree]

Regulations regarding the definition of "highly qualified" diminished my capability to continue my career as it was going. I have a Masters Degree in Special education, and at the time this hit, I had been teaching for over a decade. After this legislation, I was no longer "highly qualified" to teach students in grades 7-12. I couldn't teach a student and then assign a grade to them. The grade had to come from a "highly qualified" teacher. At that time, I was happily teaching in a high school. Students who could, were in the general ed. classroom for class, especially those in grades 9-12. I only pulled students that were significantly behind into my classroom. (example: a tenth grader still needing help w/basic math skills) After this legislation, I felt as if my degree, which was a K-12 degree, meant nothing. I fulfilled all obligations to earn my K-12 special education teaching certificate. This was the only type of certification to be earned when I completed my degee. Then, the federal government passes legislation that restricts my capabiltiy to work. It was very discouraging and I still don't understand why the NEA allowed something of nature to happen to special educators across this country.

 

[EthansMom]

Quick story... My nephew has anxiety issues and his 3rd Grade teacher had him so spun up about performance on The Test that the poor kid could hardly sleep at night. No one in the family knew what to do. I was around one day when he was stressing out and told him, "Don't stress out about it. You aren't being graded on the test." His demeanor changed almost immediately. He had no idea that he wouldn't be punished (with bad grades, for instance) for poor performance.

As I mentioned in my prior post, I've already heard DS's Second Grade teacher mention, "This material will be on the test." Yep, the 3rd Grade test that is OVER a year away.

 

[babytrees]

It's an unfunded mandate with next-to-impossible-to-meet standards.

the best one sentence explanation there is!!

 

[JARNJ3]

I always thought it was a program developed to assess the teacher - not to teach the child.

I remember that the mantra was to get rid of the incompetent teachers who were protected by tenure.

 

[daughtersrus]

I am the mom to three girls. My two oldest are now in college and are both special education majors. My youngest has a very rare genetic disease and has been in a self-contained special ed class since she was 3yo.

I will give you my perspective as a parent of a special ed student. Because my DD is not able to take the standard test even with modifications, she is given a "portfolio". Her IEP goals have to be in line with the IL Learning Standards. That's fine and dandy but with a child like her, the older she gets, the larger the gap between what she should be able to do and what she can do widens.

For example, I believe that it was when she was in 3rd grade that they were testing Math and Science. So one of her goals was that she would hold a coin shaped object for X amount of seconds. If she was able to do it, it appears to those looking at her test results that she is performing at grade level in math but we all know that's not true. For science, she had some goals that she would hold the seed for X amount of seconds and with hand-over-hand assistance, place it in the soil. Again, because she isn't able to take the standard test, the portfolio must be assembled by the teacher and include graphs, pictures of the student doing the task... To me, this is a lot of time wasted instead of working with the students.

Also, if a certain number of students don't meet or exceed, the school can loose funding. The schools are only able to exclude a certain number of students from testing. In our district, there were two schools that were put on the warning list. Of course, these two schools also had the highest number of special ed students.

I just pulled out my DD's IAA results that we got in the mail last week. She was in 8th grade last year and the testing was in reading, math and writing. Of course we were not surprised to see that she did not test anywhere near her peers. As a matter of fact, she got a 30 in writing (the lowest score possible) but we weren't surprised since she can't even hold a pencil without help.

Now, as a parent of future special ed teachers, I have heard how much time they are spending putting together the portfolios for their students as well as how the students have specific goals modified to the ILS that they must work on even though they have very little, if any impact on the students needs.

To me, it really is a waste of time but it also results in a lack of funding.

 

[hrh_disney_queen]

Well, here in MD those tests are very writing intensive, and I find a lot of that to be tedious in Math. 2+2 equals 4 because it DOES. A 1st grader shouldn't have to write a paragraph explaining why.

They have these kids so worked up and nervous about these tests, too. And it's not because the administration cares about the students- it's about their own "report cards."

I agree with this. At our school last year a 1st grader threw up during testing because of the stress. A FIRST GRADER!!! I'm pretty lucky, my kids don't get stressed out about this kind of thing, I don't know what I would do if they did.

 

[MM27]

It's an unfunded mandate with next-to-impossible-to-meet standards.

So true. I work in one of the underperforming schools. It's so disheartening when you work so hard all year to get kids excited about learning and they do in fact show great progress, but not enough according to NCLB. Failing schools get penalized in such a way that it is almost impossible to climb out of that hole.

Is that an offshoot of NCLB???
I've always thought that the teacher unions (through political means) put in a large barrier of entry for "non-traditional" teachers as a means for job security.

Part of NCLB is having "highly qualified" teachers in the classroom. There are different ways to become highly qualified though. In NJ, passing the Praxis is one way. You could have gotten an undergrad degree in anything, pass the Praxis and take alternate route classes and you can teach in public school. I don't know that the unions are blocking this. If you want to get into a school district this way, you need to find one willing to take an alternate route teacher. It's easy in urban districts, not so much in suburban unless you are a math/science/other high need area candidate.

Teachers that taught before the Praxis was required can do something called the House Matrix, where they get "points" for various things. As long as they have enough points, they are considered highly qualified.

Our recently retired school superintendent said that testing the EC kids who had no hope of ever passing was the saddest thing he had ever seen done in public schools -- taking a child who has made great educational strides and who is working very hard and telling him he's a failure.

The other ones are the kids that speak little to no English and have to take the same test. I have found that many of these kids really have the desire to do well and it kills them to have to take a test that they can't understand.

 

[KikiFan]

Here in Tx we've had the pleasure of NCLB for a lot longer then the rest of the country.

The first issue I have is that it forces the teacher to teach to the bottom third of the class. The kids that are in danger of failing. The entire class becomes geared towards getting those kids to pass. The middle third of the class get a little more attention because they may or may not be able to pass. But the top third of the class gets completely ignored - because the teacher knows they'll pass. My daughter spent all of third grade with her nose buried in a book because she was one of those not in any danger of failing. School became a boring tedious nightmare of T.A.K.S worksheets. They had done close to 200 T.A.K.S. worksheets at around the 100 day mark. I totally understand why teachers are forced to teach this way so I don't blame them. But for kids like my daughter, school becomes more of a babysitting program. They get bored and start checking out mentally. Next thing you know the best and the brightest..... aren't anymore.

It also stifles all creative learning. It's all about the test, all the time. And teachers don't get to take the time to teach things just because they are interesting things that will enrich the kids. There is no love of learning for the sake of learning, being passed to the kids. Learning is about Testing only.

My daughter is now in 8th grade and what I've seen happen is that the bottom has been lifted and there are more schools that meet the "excellence" rating. But there also seems to be a lot less of the exceptional kids too. The kids that are passionate about learning, that go above and beyond. My daughter is in a T.A.G. school and I am constantly amazed at what passes for a T.A.G. student. Most (not all) of the kids seem to have the mentality of just doing the least that has to be done to pass. There doesn't seem to be any love of learning or passion. I think that's the direct result of the heavy focus on meeting a baseline. I believe the best and brightest have been dumbed down.

 

[ead79]

OP, thanks for starting this topic, as I have always wondered about this myself. I don't have kids yet, so I'm not totally familiar with all the requirements.

I have a couple of questions.

1) Do all special needs students get either special consideration (like more time to take the test) or get to exempt the test if they truly cannot perform to the standard level? It seems unfair to me if allowances are not made for special needs students.

2) It seems to me that NCLB could sometimes work to point out a teacher that isn't great. I realize that it's a two-edged sword, but there are some teachers out there that are truly abysmal. It doesn't seem to me that they should just automatically get tenure even if they are not doing a good job. I'm not saying that it's always by choice that the teacher isn't performing well. For example, when I was in high school my AP Biology teacher had been teaching for 25 years. She was terrific, and the vast majority of her students got 4's or 5's on the AP exam. Contrastingly, one of my friends was a 1st year teacher and was given the AP Biology class at her school. She later told me that only 1 of her students even passed the AP exam. Not a single one got a 4 or 5. My friend was very diligent in working with the kids, but she just wasn't ready for that level of class right out of the gate. Couldn't NCLB help identify that?

3) I really feel for inner city schools. If kids aren't getting fed at home, school tends to drop on the priority list. Often school is the only safe place for at-risk kids. Plus, I know that many inner city school teachers are truly gifted at working with these kids. But sometimes there's just no way for these kids to perform at grade level if they started out as very much behind.

 

[mickeylove2]

My DD is in 2nd grade and I just had her teacher conference yesterday. They tested the words per minute in reading in fall, winter and spring, she tells me that in the fall the student needs to be reading 44 wpm in the winter 69 wpm and in the spring 98 wpm (I thing I got the numbers right, they are close I know) my DD read 188 wpm last week when they tested her. What are they doing to acknowledge that?? Nothing, it's just what it is, if she was reading 20 wpm they would be giving her extra "attention" to help her catch up, they would likely give her incentives to do more reading, KWIM? Well, my DD would like some extra attention and incentives for surpassing the goal, she is only 7.

Then, I see that the library is set up by color coded sections, Pre K and K can only check out books from the Yellow section, 1 and 2 can only check out red and yellow sections, 3 and 4 can only check out green, red and yellow, and 5 can check out of the blue section or any other. Well, my DD is reading well past the red section and it took me meeting with the principle for her to be able to read other books. Instead of my DD being challenged when she is done her independent work, she is asked to help other students with their work, she also accompanies a little girl, who has autism, to her special classes and sits there while she is worked with, meanwhile my DD is sitting there reading a book, I think we get the fact that she can read!?!?! Her handwriting is horrible and you would think that the teacher would give her extra handwriting assignments, not have her read, focus on her strengths and weaknesses and help her succeed.

Also, her report card was awesome by the way, I am so very proud of her, she received all A'a and 1 B- in science, it was an 88 but still a B, so we see that she needs a little more of a puch in science, would it be that hard to give her extra work in science to help her in that subject instead of having her help others and read book after book????

I know I really shouldn't be complaining and I LOVE the fact that my DD is responsible enough, in the teachers' eyes, to assist her classmates, and it's great that her little heart is big enough to want to help...but she is my DD and I only want what's best for her, I truly believe that she could probably skip a grade if she was challenged a little more now. I almost feel that she is being held back becasue no one has really seen her full potential, doe sthat make sense????

 

[Galahad]

Of course NCLB will be going away and that is one reason I don't believe the Feds should have any say in education. There can be a complete shift in approaches depending on the make-up of D.C. - But that is a topic for another thread.

Why do you think it will go away. Did Obama promise that?

 

[Kae]

Around here I feel that they place all the blame on the teachers & the parents do not have to accept any of the blame(which is not the word i am looking for-drawing a blank). I do believe/hope that it is the start to a solution, I wish they would/could tweak it every few years.

Kae

 

[agnes!]

Re: the upthread poster with the color-coded school library
I've heard about this before, that some school libraries keep kids from reading books at their actual reading level, with coding-systems. Does it strike anybody else as a little 1984/Animal Farm -ish?

agnes!