Employers/medical history- UPDATE post 28

[hoon]

Can someone familiar with HIPAA/ADA laws help me out? My employer is requiring all employees to fill out an extensive medical history form- outlining illnesses, prescription meds & why they are taken, etc. This is in no way a physical job, so the request is not job related. Is this even legal? The research I've done states that employers do not fall under HIPAA, but there must be a reason why the request is being made (i.e. job performance is poor and may be medical related). They (employers) state the form must be filled out for workers' comp benefits, but it seems to me like the form would be filled out only if an injury occurs.

I am paranoid, not that I have anything to hide!, about these forms getting in the wrong hands.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I would take the form to my attorney for advice. Sorry that I cannot help...

 

[LuvOrlando]

My DH's company sends out a form from Johns Hopkins every year. Well, I fill it out but consider most of the intimate questions invasive AND I do not in any way feel obligated to be truthful any more than I feel obligated to be truthful when a website asks me my birth date or income in order to read a newspaper. As a result, my answers on this form ALWAYS point to us being perfectly healthy and when they ask for specifics like HDL numbers etc I answer, "I do not know". My attitude is how dare they ask me this or that. When they ask for Dr's visits I am vague and answer "We go often for day to day health issues such as Flu, Colds etc." because etc. could mean anything couldn't it? Preexisting conditions, I write in ,"None that I am aware of" which isn't untruthful because I do not have the vaguest idea what they define pre-existing or no so unless this is defined for me I am not actually aware of what they think about anything. FOr medications I write in, "Benedryl for allergies, Ibuprofren for a headache now and then, etc.", again etc can men anything couldn't it? If they want to be invasive I can be elusive, 2 can play at that game.

I do not think you are being paranoid, sure they can't legally say you are being denied a promotion because of your health etc but seriously, people are people. If a boss sees someone is in poor health I suspect it might influence them whether they admit it or not. I do not think the need for these forms is valid and think they are just snooping around. No sense in making waves just be elusive, if they ask for more definite info just keep beating around the bush saying you need to get to the Dr to get checked again then say how busy you are and on & on until they forget.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Double post

 

[Abbie]

As far as I understand it, an employer cannot demand to know your medical history if it's not pertinent to your particular job requirements. If there is a worker's comp claim, the insurance company or attorney will request your medical records but even then it is usually only the records relating to the accident or injury, not necessarily anything beyond or prior to that.

When we write an excuse note for a patient in our office, we will not specify a reason why they were seen, only that they were in the office. The employee has a right to his/her privacy and is not required to disclose why they went to the doctor.

 

[figment52]

I suspect that there is a misunderstanding and it is not Work Comp related but the questionnaire is required for them to secure a group medical plan for the employees. Many group plans are "medically underwritten" so they need to know the medical history of the group in order to properly "price" the insurance premium. Review the questionnaire to see if there is a statement that starts something about information is not to be shared or is used for underwriting purposes only.

When I have been with companies where this was necessary. the employees were provided stamped, pre-addressed envelopes to a third party and no one at the company was allowed to see individual questionnaires. I can't guarantee that all companies operate that way.

HIPPA, as I understand how it would apply here, would require secure and restricted access to this information.

HTH

 

[Stacerita]

They are not entittled to that information.

 

[hoon]

I suspect that there is a misunderstanding and it is not Work Comp related but the questionnaire is required for them to secure a group medical plan for the employees. Many group plans are "medically underwritten" so they need to know the medical history of the group in order to properly "price" the insurance premium. Review the questionnaire to see if there is a statement that starts something about information is not to be shared or is used for underwriting purposes only.

When I have been with companies where this was necessary. the employees were provided stamped, pre-addressed envelopes to a third party and no one at the company was allowed to see individual questionnaires. I can't guarantee that all companies operate that way.

HIPPA, as I understand how it would apply here, would require secure and restricted access to this information.

HTH

We did fill out a form for the health insurance when we were hired. This is a new form, and the reason why I said workers' comp related is because at the bottom of the form it said according to worker's comp (and then the title, or law #) providing false or misleading information is unlawful.

 

[figment52]

We did fill out a form for the health insurance when we were hired. This is a new form, and the reason why I said workers' comp related is because at the bottom of the form it said according to worker's comp (and then the title, or law #) providing false or misleading information is unlawful.

It is my experience that the questionnaires used for underwriting are slightly multipurpose so they could site a work comp issue and cover themselves for using the same form for different situations.

Employers "shop" group insurance on a regular basis to control costs. The information you most likely provided when you were hired was to enroll you in their current plan. Rate changes are usually annually and if they are facing a high renewal rate they will shop other providers to see if they can lower that premium cost or at least soften the increase premium.

Can you call HR and ask them to explain why you need to complete this form?

 

[FireDancer]

I suspect this is not a form for your employer but for their insurer. I work at a smaller company and they shop for a better price when the current plan expires because there is almost always an increase. The insurer needs to know what kind of shape the employees are in to more accurately quote the rates. I don't care if they know my medical history and fill it our accurately.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Hmmm, this does open the door for a company to get rid of an otherwise qualified employee if his/her health issues were to drive up the cost of insurance for the group or might lead to absences though. I don't not think its lawful, but I wouldn't challenge it either because it could send up red flags that aren't there and they could think you are covering something up. I still say the way I handle it is best, be vague and leave a lot of loose ends. The people who collect these forms won't care its useless with open ended sentences.

 

[mickeyboat]

Hmmm, this does open the door for a company to get rid of an otherwise qualified employee if his/her health issues were to drive up the cost of insurance for the group or might lead to absences though. I don't not think its lawful, but I wouldn't challenge it either because it could send up red flags that aren't there and they could think you are covering something up. I still say the way I handle it is best, be vague and leave a lot of loose ends. The people who collect these forms won't care its useless with open ended sentences.

If I was an employer, I would go to great pains never to touch see those completed forms, for fear I would be accused of a discriminatory firing later on.

I would also caution you not to lie or be purposely deceiving and vague on the forms. I would be concerned that you could be denied coverage or accused of insurance fraud later on.

 

[LuvOrlando]

If I was an employer, I would go to great pains never to touch see those completed forms, for fear I would be accused of a discriminatory firing later on.

I would also caution you not to lie or be purposely deceiving and vague on the forms. I would be concerned that you could be denied coverage or accused of insurance fraud later on.

No flames but you commented on my post point blank so I am going to reply.

To the first part, if an employer really didn't want the info they could #1, not ask for it in the first place or #2, ask that it be sent directly to whomever it is that is collecting the info. The fact that the OP seems to feel this is a case of illegally prying into his/her personal info by misrepresenting the reason for the form by using one with "Workman's Comp" stamped on it seems to indicate this company may not be ethical. Further, lots of things are illgal and unethical but companys still do it all the time. What about ENRON, Arthur Anderson? If these big companies break the rules why assume little ones would be any less inclined to do so?

There is nothing fraudulent about being vague, evasive or open-ended. It is only fraud if you make a precises false statement by answering No when it is in fact a Yes. If the direct question is "are you or have you ever been diagnosed or treated for high blood pressure?" that is pretty much a no brainer yes or no. However, if the question was stated, "Do you have a heart condition?", well high blood pressure isn't exactly a heart condition is it, even though some people might believe it is? Since it's actually a vascular condition that may possibly lead to heart trouble, but not heart trouble yet, a person could/should say no. In this country we have an entire industry built upon implying things that aren't true without lying and it is called marketing. Regular people are as protected by those laws as industry.

I for one will not lie, but I will not divulge my personal information unless I am legally bound to do so and it says so in writing that I have no choice. Anyone who comes along and asks without proving to me I MUST be forthcoming deserves whatever they get... and they are going to get vague & evasive open ended answers.

 

[KLAIT]

I am also a benefits administrator and as a few have mentioned I would guess that this is the employer shopping for a new health plan. We go through this at least every 4 or 5 years when we have had 35% increases in our current premiums. I am not sure why the company is collecting these questionnaires unless the benefits office is HIIPA compliant (which several choose to be so they can administer their own FSA, HRA or HSA plans). We have our employees send it directly to our agent and he forwards to the insurance companies,

I have learned that you cannot get a "solid" premium quote unless the group fills out this application. I do know from experience we have had a few employees not mention a particular problem that they are having/had and the insurance company denied payment on related claims as there was fraud involved and these conditions can be serious.

If this is in fact an insurance health questionnaire, please be honest....it will NOT benefit you in the end if your employer does switch insurance and it is not disclosed. The insurance company business is based on risk management and if they do not have the truth, you will unfortunatly pay. I would call your employer, as them what the form specifically is meant for and if their office is HIIPA compliant to receive the info....then they are legally obligated to serveral rules and regulations...

 

[ms.yt]

Is your boss Dwight Schrute? You could always make up diseases and list them on the form like hot dog fingers, spontaneous dental hydroplosion and government created killer nano robot infection!

(Just kidding of course, just couldn't resist a chance to throw out some quotes from The Office!)

 

[goofyernmost]

They are not entittled to that information.

And they are not obligated to hire you. Life isn't all that complicated when you think about it.

There is fantasy driven by righteousness and then there is real life. The sooner one understands that, the less painful life is and the easier it becomes.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

And they are not obligated to hire you. Life isn't all that complicated when you think about it.

Isn't the employee presently employed?

If she weren't, then the form would be very illegal.

*****

If they were shopping a group plan--then why would the form have workman's comp stamped on it? That is completely separate insurance, isn't it? (I have had one workman's comp claim in my life and my group plan had nothing to do with paying the bills.)

OP--can you just ask an HR person what the paperwork is for and where it will go?

When I worked--my "bosses" never touched or saw any HR related papework of that nature. The only thing they knew about me was what I was paid and submitted reviews (and if it were applicable, disciplinary action.)

This was a large company and they didn't have access to my SSN, health insurance info, life insurance info or any "personal" HR-related stuff that enables me to be employed and have benefits.

My husband works for a small company and it is "kind" of similar.

His boss has an "HR person" and he has no real need to know specific stuff--but I suppose he could access it, I don't know.

But they did shop for a plan the year after my husband's hired and group plans for very small employers (I think they have less than 15--though it may be less than 10) is a HUGE pain in the neck and I don't recall him filling out a form that specific at all.

 

[gracie1]

Is your health insurance through your employer? Is it for health insurance purposes? I know where I live that every year we have to fill one out for the insurance bids/renewal.

 

[mickeyboat]

No flames but you commented on my post point blank so I am going to reply.

To the first part, if an employer really didn't want the info they could #1, not ask for it in the first place or #2, ask that it be sent directly to whomever it is that is collecting the info. The fact that the OP seems to feel this is a case of illegally prying into his/her personal info by misrepresenting the reason for the form by using one with "Workman's Comp" stamped on it seems to indicate this company may not be ethical. Further, lots of things are illgal and unethical but companys still do it all the time. What about ENRON, Arthur Anderson? If these big companies break the rules why assume little ones would be any less inclined to do so?

There is nothing fraudulent about being vague, evasive or open-ended. It is only fraud if you make a precises false statement by answering No when it is in fact a Yes. If the direct question is "are you or have you ever been diagnosed or treated for high blood pressure?" that is pretty much a no brainer yes or no. However, if the question was stated, "Do you have a heart condition?", well high blood pressure isn't exactly a heart condition is it, even though some people might believe it is? Since it's actually a vascular condition that may possibly lead to heart trouble, but not heart trouble yet, a person could/should say no. In this country we have an entire industry built upon implying things that aren't true without lying and it is called marketing. Regular people are as protected by those laws as industry.

I for one will not lie, but I will not divulge my personal information unless I am legally bound to do so and it says so in writing that I have no choice. Anyone who comes along and asks without proving to me I MUST be forthcoming deserves whatever they get... and they are going to get vague & evasive open ended answers.

First - my even my children understand that just because someone else behaves badly, does not mean you should.

Second - vague, evasive and open ended to you might be considered deceptive lies to the insurance company - which could lead to claims being denied and your policy being rescinded.

Now I agree that your employer has no business knowing your personal health information. Smart employers don't want to know. If your form is to be returned to your employer, contact human resources to find out how you can transmit the form to the insurance company directly.

 

[C.Ann]

No one I know - including myself - has ever had to do this.. For some reason that I can't quite put my finger on, this rubs me the wrong way..

I guess I would call HR - find out exactly why they need this info - and then ask if you could mail it directly to whoever is requesting it (bypassing your employer)..

Maybe I'm being cynical, but I could definitely see this as a way of weeding out costly employees (due to medical issues and higher premiums) and in an "at will" state - such as NY - they could very easily let someone go "just because"..