Early Morning Magic?

[jade1]

It seems like a way to better and more reliably monetize and set expectations for those pre-park openings. As a previous poster said, if you go to BoG for example and get the one cupcake and one coffee for a family of 4 and then book it to the mine train, you may find that they won't let you ride without the sticker. I'd rather that there be clear set rules and guidelines in place instead of just making it up as they go along. Personally, I don't see myself paying it especially for those rides. But there's apparently a decent contigent of people who must do the mine train and whatever else without waiting. They're just taking money people are willing to give.

Yea I think the feedback of not getting on Mine Train must be enormous. So why not sell rides on it and open the park for that reason. May as well open a few others rides as well, but something tells me its mostly Mine Train.

 

[dlavender]

Side 2: I just don't get why people are freaking out about these things. If you don't do it, it should have NO effect on you.

I think this could have an effect, if it becomes popular. There are some, like myself, who hit RD and go straight to adventureland/frontierland while everyone else is fighting for 7DMT. If this event has 1,000 people, you are correct, they will be done with FL, and they will be spreading out elsewhere. My walk on and ride three times in a row BTMRR and Splash could be in jeopardy. I emphasize could be, here. We wont know until it happens. I'm not freaking out over it, by any means. But I would be upset if this event becomes popular, and more frequent, and takes away my RD advantage.

 

[ChipnDale79]

OK - two sides to the coin.

Side 1: What are they smoking with these things, are people really going to pay those prices? $69 to ride 3 rides for an hour? That's completely nuts. No way I would ever do it.

Side 2: I just don't get why people are freaking out about these things. If you don't do it, it should have NO effect on you.
#1: They do NOT mean the end of EMH. In both the case of the Extra evening and extra morning ticket - they are in ADDITION to EMH. They only do morning and evening EMH once a week in MK. There are plenty of other days to schedule this event. Much like the old E-ticket evenings, which of course were much cheaper but were a paid event. There NO reason to assume it's the end of EMH. They use EMH to drive people to stay on site, they will not take it away.
#2: They aren't taking away hours from regular paying customers. These are EXTRA hours, both on the evenings (after 10 or 11 PM) and mornings (before 9 AM).
They haven't done the rope drop morning show on EMH mornings in ages. In this case, they will probably continue to do it at the regular time even on these mornings - its no different from the people coming for ADRS.
#3: Why would you think there will be long lines at 9 AM for these two rides? First off - there won't be a lot of people that pay this. Second - the people that pay this will have already RIDDEN these 3 rides by 9 AM - likely multiple times. At 9 AM they will be moving on to OTHER rides.

It's idiotic, but not something to decide "I hate Disney!" over.

In a way this one does effect those that do not participate. It effects those that get there are rope drop in order to hit attractions in fantasyland before the lines build up, now they'll be lines already on those mornings. Does it effect a small group of people? sure, but they are paying guests as well.

 

[saskdw]

So for a family of 4 it's $240 plus tax for a continental breakfast and 3 rides (two of which are not top attractions) ? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eoghann]

OK - two sides to the coin.

Side 1: What are they smoking with these things, are people really going to pay those prices? $69 to ride 3 rides for an hour? That's completely nuts. No way I would ever do it.

Side 2: I just don't get why people are freaking out about these things. If you don't do it, it should have NO effect on you.
#1: They do NOT mean the end of EMH. In both the case of the Extra evening and extra morning ticket - they are in ADDITION to EMH. They only do morning and evening EMH once a week in MK. There are plenty of other days to schedule this event. Much like the old E-ticket evenings, which of course were much cheaper but were a paid event. There NO reason to assume it's the end of EMH. They use EMH to drive people to stay on site, they will not take it away.
#2: They aren't taking away hours from regular paying customers. These are EXTRA hours, both on the evenings (after 10 or 11 PM) and mornings (before 9 AM).
They haven't done the rope drop morning show on EMH mornings in ages. In this case, they will probably continue to do it at the regular time even on these mornings - its no different from the people coming for ADRS.
#3: Why would you think there will be long lines at 9 AM for these two rides? First off - there won't be a lot of people that pay this. Second - the people that pay this will have already RIDDEN these 3 rides by 9 AM - likely multiple times. At 9 AM they will be moving on to OTHER rides.

It's idiotic, but not something to decide "I hate Disney!" over.

People can be critical of things without being "I hate Disney". I'm really not seeing a lot of freaking out going on here. I'm seeing people who are tired of the seemingly constant stream of additional monetizations that Disney is rolling out at the same time they are raising prices across the board and apparently making cuts. At one time the focus was on making the experience good for everyone now they have moved in a very different direction. That's reason enough to complain. At best the company is being tone deaf to its core customer base. Spread them out, offer some stuff that doesn't cost extra in between.

 

[jade1]

At one time the focus was on making the experience good for everyone now they have moved in a very different direction. That's reason enough to complain. At best the company is being tone deaf to its core customer base. Spread them out, offer some stuff that doesn't cost extra in between.

What if the customer base is wanting more Mine Train availability? It is offered to everyone. If this event were free-it wouldn't help at all IMO-they would just line up sooner.

 

[soniam]

I could possibly see paying for it once for me and/or DH but not with DS too. I wouldn't use it for the rides; I would use it for less people in the park for photos. However, I still think BOG PPO breakfast is a better deal for that. I have a BOG PPO ADR for our next trip (DH & I only), but it's only so I can get some less crowded photos. I generally don't think PPO ADRs are really worth it; there seems to be a lot of risk, money, and rushing involved.

I do worry what this will do to morning crowds. We usually do RD and especially AM EMH. It won't affect AM EMH, since it won't be on those days. However, if AM EMH goes away because of this, that would be sad I would avoid MK on mornings where they were doing this, if it seems to be a lot of people. We usually do 7DMT with an FP+ anyway. The rides not all that, so I don't see the need to ride it that often.

 

[skier_pete]

I think this could have an effect, if it becomes popular. There are some, like myself, who hit RD and go straight to adventureland/frontierland while everyone else is fighting for 7DMT. If this event has 1,000 people, you are correct, they will be done with FL, and they will be spreading out elsewhere.

But look at it this way - 3 rides;
Peter Pan has a ride capacity of about 720 riders per hour
7DMT is about 1450 rides per hour
Pooh is similar to Peter Pan at 765

So total ride capacity for these 3 rides is 2,935 riders. if each person rides each ride once during the 3 hours, that means there's only room for 978 customers . That tells me they are going to severely limit the number of people - which is probably why the price point is so high. People are going to royally complain if they pay $69 a person and then have a 20 minute wait to get on the rides. I would suspect they would limit this to somewhere between 500 and 1000 people maximum.

Remember, even at 500 people, averaging $59 a pop ($69 for adults, $49 for kids) . they're making $30,000 in income on what might be $5,000 of expenses. (Figure maybe 50 employees for an extra hour at $10 per hour is $500 - then another $4 per person for the breakfasts they hand out plus utility costs.) $25,000 isn't a lot of money per se for Disney, but it's a massive profit margin and these things add up. IF it succeeds at MK, then you start doing it once a week at the other three parks (Open Test Track and Frozen Forever an hour early) and quadruple that to $100,000+ each week - that's $5.2 million in profit a year. Now add in these $139 evening passes and see what you got.

Their biggest problem is if it doesn't sell at that price, and they have only 100 people instead of 500. Of course then they just stop doing it. But they don't need a sucker born every minute. They only need 500 suckers a week - that's one born every 20 minutes.

 

[Roxyfire]

I think this could have an effect, if it becomes popular. There are some, like myself, who hit RD and go straight to adventureland/frontierland while everyone else is fighting for 7DMT. If this event has 1,000 people, you are correct, they will be done with FL, and they will be spreading out elsewhere. My walk on and ride three times in a row BTMRR and Splash could be in jeopardy. I emphasize could be, here. We wont know until it happens. I'm not freaking out over it, by any means. But I would be upset if this event becomes popular, and more frequent, and takes away my RD advantage.

I can see that for sure. My thought is to do prepark breakfast to get a meal out of the way and to get toward that area sooner, as well. I hope that doesn't change things too much.

Remember, even at 500 people, averaging $59 a pop ($69 for adults, $49 for kids) . they're making $30,000 in income on what might be $5,000 of expenses. (Figure maybe 50 employees for an extra hour at $10 per hour is $500 - then another $4 per person for the breakfasts they hand out plus utility costs.) $25,000 isn't a lot of money per se for Disney, but it's a massive profit margin and these things add up.

I applaud your napkin math. I am not experienced in the way of Disney but I can see them coming to the conclusion that they don't really need PPO breakfasts when they can just charge extra for the access to select attractions/m&gs when needed.

 

[dlavender]

But look at it this way - 3 rides;
Peter Pan has a ride capacity of about 720 riders per hour
7DMT is about 1450 rides per hour
Pooh is similar to Peter Pan at 765

So total ride capacity for these 3 rides is 2,935 riders. if each person rides each ride once during the 3 hours, that means there's only room for 978 customers . That tells me they are going to severely limit the number of people - which is probably why the price point is so high. People are going to royally complain if they pay $69 a person and then have a 20 minute wait to get on the rides. I would suspect they would limit this to somewhere between 500 and 1000 people maximum.

Remember, even at 500 people, averaging $59 a pop ($69 for adults, $49 for kids) . they're making $30,000 in income on what might be $5,000 of expenses. (Figure maybe 50 employees for an extra hour at $10 per hour is $500 - then another $4 per person for the breakfasts they hand out plus utility costs.) $25,000 isn't a lot of money per se for Disney, but it's a massive profit margin and these things add up. IF it succeeds at MK, then you start doing it once a week at the other three parks (Open Test Track and Frozen Forever an hour early) and quadruple that to $100,000+ each week - that's $5.2 million in profit a year. Now add in these $139 evening passes and see what you got.

Their biggest problem is if it doesn't sell at that price, and they have only 100 people instead of 500. Of course then they just stop doing it. But they don't need a sucker born every minute. They only need 500 suckers a week - that's one born every 20 minutes.

I can hope, selfishly, that it caps at 500, and at the same time cuts 200 people from using a pre open ADR, limiting its effect on my RD strategy. We will see how it plays out. Can't wait to see updates.

 

[jade1]

Would not be surprised to see a future HP early AM ticket at the 2 UNI parks as well if this works out.

 

[soniam]

Would not be surprised to see a future HP early AM ticket at the 2 UNI parks as well if this works out.

The problem with that is they already give one hour early admission everyday for one or both parks to hotel guests. It's not like WDW where there are days without AM EMH. Also, the park(s) that has early admission stays that way for a significant period of time, rather than changing from day-to-day. This would drastically eat into one of their hotel advantages; however, the express pass is still worth it.

 

[jade1]

The problem with that is they already give one hour early admission everyday for one or both parks to hotel guests. It's not like WDW where there are days without AM EMH. Also, the park(s) that has early admission stays that way for a significant period of time, rather than changing from day-to-day. This would drastically eat into one of their hotel advantages; however, the express pass is still worth it.

But they could sell the opposite park to the paying public those times of year-I think about 9 months of the year.

 

[saskdw]

It seems like they are testing the waters to see what the price tolerance is for exclusive access.

I do believe there is a market for exclusive access, but they are trying to hit the home run for profits with this initial attempt. I am in the demographic that would pay for something like this, but the value has to be there for what I'm getting.

I would gladly pay $100 for MVMCP instead of $75 if they let half as many people in. But that is a 5 hour access to MK with a 4pm entry that makes it 8 hour access. To me that would be good value. $149 for 3 hours is probably not a good enough value for me. Too much for only 3 hours. The early entry offer doesn't interest me at this point, it isn't close to being value for me.

They also really need to define exclusive access for people to properly assess the value. We all agree that the current format for MVMCP is not very exclusive.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

You know if all these changes were spread out over a 10 year period I MIGHT be able to handle it all (baby steps of getting used to the new Disney). It's been like 8 months since the first shoe dropped and it's like we're in hyperspace of changes. Change can be good and bad but too many changes at once almost always backfires.

 

[jade1]

It seems like they are testing the waters to see what the price tolerance is for exclusive access.

I do believe there is a market for exclusive access, but they are trying to hit the home run for profits with this initial attempt. I am in the demographic that would pay for something like this, but the value has to be there for what I'm getting.

I would gladly pay $100 for MVMCP instead of $75 if they let half as many people in. But that is a 5 hour access to MK with a 4pm entry that makes it 8 hour access. To me that would be good value. $149 for 3 hours is probably not a good enough value for me. Too much for only 3 hours. The early entry offer doesn't interest me at this point, it isn't close to being value for me.

They also really need to define exclusive access for people to properly assess the value. We all agree that the current format for MVMCP is not very exclusive.

I agree. None of have a clue what we would charge for something like this IMO.

The balance between too many wanting it, not enough being able to get it, and not enough interested is hard to pinpoint IMO.

 

[adam.adbe]

It's going to be really hard to justify a dining plan if Disney keep drifting in the direction of up-charge meal events.

 

[jade1]

It's going to be really hard to justify a dining plan

"Going" to be?

 

[adam.adbe]

"Going" to be?

I figured there was an implied "in so far as they can be" in there. I don't see them as good value for money, but plenty of people seem to. One shot at EMM, and a meal at Tiffin's for Rivers of Light, and even the most ardent DDP advocate might start to question the wisdom.

 

[jade1]

I figured there was an implied "in so far as they can be" in there. I don't see them as good value for money, but plenty of people seem to. One shot at EMM, and a meal at Tiffin's for Rivers of Light, and even the most ardent DDP advocate might start to question the wisdom.

Ha yea I was kinda kidding-its a good point.