DVC to add RCI as trade

Apparently, we only thank posters who provide information that agrees with our expectations and biases. Others who have had more satisfactory experiences with RCI are apparently wrong, irrelevant, or simply ignored.

15 years ago you could get good swaps through RCI. Some locations were hard, and resort quality was good.
Any resort with extremely high-quality/high-demand units will rarely be deposited to either RCI or II---both exchanges have seen available inventory drop. Why? Because owners have significantly more options available to them to extract value from their time. There are several independent exchanges that specialize in high-end properties or hard-to-get areas. The Internet has also made it possible to get significant exposure for renting weeks that simply wasn't possible 15 years ago.

For example, I recently rented out an Easter Week at Bonnet Creek, after advertising on TUG for all of five days---and that's in the current, depressed travel market. I got significantly more value for it than I would have by exchanging it in RCI. The renter was in some completely different state. I would never have gotten exposure to that renter 15 years ago. I would have had to make do by asking friends and family (none of whom wanted it) or advertising in the local paper's classifieds. That's a much smaller potential market---I would probably have simply deposited the time instead, just to get something in return.

Just as owners with summer weeks at Hershey in RCI would be fools to deposit their time, so too would owners with spring weeks at the Westin St. John in II. Yes, RCI rents inventory. So does Interval. Some of that inventory was never eligible for exchange. Some of it was "internally exchanged" with developer deposits. The fact that the Class Action has been settled before finding anything of substance against RCI suggests to me, quite strongly, that either the smoking gun simply wasn't there, or the suit was a sham foisted by the lawyers to begin with.

The week I owned was a two bedroom red week. Why was my only trade option pre-season Branson? Will DVC be considered Red?
Not all red weeks are "equally red." Some are bright searing red. Some are the palest shade of pink. Orlando is "red" year round. But it is obvious that a mid-September hurricane week in, say, one of the Celebrity resorts (a bottom-of-the-barrel set of RCI-affiliated resorts if ever there was one) is not going to have trade power comparable to an HGVC Sea World Christmas, New Years, or Easter Week.

DVC has a unique offering---even those hurricane weeks are taken eagerly by folks in Interval now, and those weeks will be exposed to a larger pool of potential exchange guests in RCI, unless there is a very aggressive 1-in-N rule (which is entirely possible.)

I encourage others to visit their site, and join if they truely want unbiased information.
I also think every timeshare owner would benefit by spending some time at TUG. But, it's important to recognize that individuals there do have biases---both for and against RCI. But, by carefully sifting through everything, one quickly gets a sense for the potential benefits and losses of this change.

And---to repeat myself---for DVC owners wishing to exchange out, this is almost immaterial. You are almost always better off renting your DVC points to someone else, and using the proceeds to rent the non-DVC logding you desire. Exchanging more than once in a blue moon is almost certainly a poor use of points, no matter what external exchange company you use.

The real people who are impacted are those wishing to exchange in. Based on reading their posts, my sense is that many of the most vocal objectors are those who routinely exchange *in*, not those who routinely exchange *out*. As someone who routinely exchanges in, I do expect the switch to RCI to make it more difficult (and a little more expensive) to obtain frequent stays at DVC. But, them's the breaks.
 
Sorry I forgot you Brian!!!! Thank youooooo.....:worship: :thumbsup2 Can't forget my poster "Dean"!!! :worship: :worship: :worship: (Sorry Brian, Dean gets a triple I'm not worthy!!):wizard:
 
No apology necessary. Dean has been a longtime source of good information here for DVC members---especially because he's willing to say things that many DVC owners don't want to hear.
 
It DID work, but DVC found a more workable relationship with II. ... and now DVD has found a more workable relationship with RCI.

RCI has FAR more resorts to work with and has FAR more members to work with. Please feel free to provide your statistics that "it did NOT work" with RCI from 13 years ago and feel free to provide your statistics that II is a better match for DVC members. PLEASE do not provide any anectodal or personal opinions about either RCI or II. Any factual information is welcome though ( as long as you provide the actual facts) ! :)


Doc - if it worked so well - why did DVC leave RCI - when in fact there were unused RCI vacations - that existed for at least 2 years.

You knew about the RCI vacations because they were listed on something (statement maybe) that DVC send us for those years.

think that was part of the problem - RCI wanted the DVC villa before a member had decided to do it. So DVC lost points. They can't kept losing points - so they went with II - who allowed DVC to not do advance booking (that is how I read it - if you KNOW different - please say so)

RCI does not have the nicer resorts. That is a fact not an opinion.

So please don't get mad. I use RCI for my lessor resorts - but don't think it is up to DVC standards for most of the resorts.
 

I can't speak as a DVC owner but I can tell you the difference from 13 years ago to now. I work in this business and have dealt internally with RCI and II for 15 years now. 15 years ago you could get good swaps through RCI. Some locations were hard, and resort quality was good. Once RCI stock went public, things changed. Inventory was taken from exchanges by their marketing dept. (and that came straight from a territory mgr. at RCI ) and was placed into the getaway dept. So when you would call RCI to do an exch. there was no availability, but if you called the getaway dept. to buy a week, there it was. Over the years they found out it was more profitable to sell weeks than exch. them, thus making exchanges very difficult. You can get an RCI membership now without even owning timeshare. A local businessmans club for vets. gets a free RCI membership with or without timeshare ownerhship. Also, the resorts that opened in late 80's early 90's that were good quality, never renovated again. Cape Cod in particular has a lot of disgusting resorts. My rep. won't even let any of my members exchange there because they know how bad they are and that's her territory.
It was a good 18 years before my resort did a renovation so for all that time people traded in to a resort that had bad accomodations. Even members with strong red weeks have difficulty. The suites at Hershey park in Pa. takes a good 1-1 1/2 years to get into. They only get about 3 deposited units each summer. There's a resort in RHode island that has not had a deposited (not even 1) in 9 years. So when RCI says they have more resorts to choose from, not really. II is smaller yes, but they are more knowledgable people, and rarely a disappointment when you arrive at the property.

You are making some blanket statements here that just are not true. "Also, the resorts that opened in late 80's early 90's that were good quality, never renovated again." I own at resorts built during that time period which have been regularly maintained and are still in excellent condition, in spite of being 20 years old. One of these resorts has dual membership in both RCI and II and is currenlty on the DVC/II list. Are you suggetsing that this resort has not been maintained? The resorts I own have utilized good management and a Capital Reserve fund included in the dues to allow for these improvments to be made. To paint all RCI resorts with the same brush is not factual.

Maintenance of individual resorts is up to the resort management itself and is not related to RCI (or II). DVC members support a Capital Reserve fund for future maintenance and repair, some other resorts may have decided against such a measure to keep their costs down. At some point this comes back to bite the owners of those resorts in some fashion - either an assessment to finally make needed repair or the owners of the resort accepting the condition without complaint. In many cases these reorts are under the control of an "owner's association" which directly controls the management and physial plant of their resort. If they are unhappy with the condition those owners have the power to either improve it or accept it. With RCI, resorts will lose trading power if the resort's condition is allowed to slide and exchanges decline.

Are you suggesting that the resorts included in the DVC options will be in poor condition? Do you have access to the resorts negotiated by DVC for the World Passport Collection? (If so, please share that list.) Are you suggesting that all of the resorts in the II/DVC list were comparable or better than DVC resorts? Are you suggesting that the specific resorts you mentioned above will be on the DVC/RCI list? Are you suggesting that an individual can purchase an RCI membership without owning a timeshare to exchange?


Certainly, there are some RCI resorts in poor condition and without a doubt there are some II resorts in poor condition. Suggestion that all II resorts don't have these same issues is just misleading and blatantly wrong.

RCI has 3700 resorts in it's system and, from the information provided by DVC, will have about 500 available to DVC members. I'll assume that those 500 will be among the best in the RCI system. The II list also included 500 resorts.
 
I guess only time will tell how well this change works out for DVC members. I will wait to pass judgement until I see the results. I do have to say that with the new resort in Hawaii along with HH, VB and the disucssion of other resort locations Disney is providing most members with a very good selection already in which to choose from outside of the park resorts. I think we need to be careful not to over examine the potential change from II to RCI and remember that we already have a terrific timeshare arrangement regardless. I myself am more concerned with the resorts we have through DVC, any exchange program in my opinion is just a plus. IMHO.
 
Doc - if it worked so well - why did DVC leave RCI - when in fact there were unused RCI vacations - that existed for at least 2 years.

You knew about the RCI vacations because they were listed on something (statement maybe) that DVC send us for those years.

think that was part of the problem - RCI wanted the DVC villa before a member had decided to do it. So DVC lost points. They can't kept losing points - so they went with II - who allowed DVC to not do advance booking (that is how I read it - if you KNOW different - please say so)

RCI does not have the nicer resorts. That is a fact not an opinion.

So please don't get mad. I use RCI for my lessor resorts - but don't think it is up to DVC standards for most of the resorts.

As I already said, DVC left RCI in 1996 for a more workable relationship with II - and is now leaving II for the exact same reason. I can ask you the same question - if the II relationship worked so well, why would DVC switch back to RCI.

I don't have any "fact" that suggests that
"there were unused RCI vacations - that existed for at least 2 years."
Please share your facts - did DVC publish those facts? Also keep in mind that the original DVC/RCI pact was only in place for about 3 years with not many DVC members and those members were mostly interested in using their points at OKW during that time. Are you suggesting that there are no unused II vacations?

It sure sounds as though you have a lot of inside information why DVC "went with II" all those years ago.

"RCI does not have the nicer resorts. That is a fact not an opinion."
Where is that fact stated? It sures looks like an opinion to me. I know that II certainly does have some great resorts and some of those are certainly nicer than some of the RCI resorts. I also know that RCI has some great resorts and some of those arre certainly nicer than some of the II resorts. In addition, some resorts have dual participation in both RCI and II - so where do those resorts fall in your "nicer resorts" comment?

It's great you've been able to use RCI for your "lessor" resorts and soon you'll also be able to use RCI for your DVC resorts too. :)

The highly opinionated statements made thus far denigrating RCI are based on assumptions not yet in evidence. Since the recommendation made over the years (by many of the same posters) is to avoid using DVC points to exchange, it might appear that the concern over a change to RCI is coming from those who stand to lose the ability to exchange into DVC resorts - rather than bemoaning any change in outgoing opportunities which are not even known yet.

Rather than talk down the upcoming relationship between DVC and RCI, why not at least wait until we see the details of the program - including what resorts will be included, before we go making value statements?
 
Sometimes, I have to either shut my eyes or close my ears when things like this, the change to RCI, happen, because I need to focus on why I purchased DVC in the first place - to have great Disney accommodations at an affordable price.

However, this move, and others like it, do affect the value of my DVC ownership in the event that I wanted to resell it, which at this time, I do not. I don't how it will change the value of my DVC ownership, but it will most likely change it in some way.
 
Doc - the information on the left over RCI was published - don't remember where - but it was definitley published.

with II - DVC could wait until a member wanted to use II to send II the points.

RCI arrangement then was different - DVC had to do the reservations IN ADVANCE - which is why there were left over reservations. Or so I got told when I asked why there were left overs.

will admit that anything not in the South - don't know about with either company. Still I am going only to be using the South - that is all care about.

II has the better resorts in the South. that is not an opinion - but a fact.

did use my dvc to trade once to Las Vegas - a good friend was getting married there and this was their wedding present. DVC did a great job and so did II. my friend was very happy.

now my timeshares that I trade to II is also listed with RCI - it is VRI resort.

so can definitely put it with RCI - but might just kept it with II. Still love the Marriotts and can't (at present) afford them.
 
Doc - the information on the left over RCI was published - don't remember where - but it was definitley published.

Please share the text of the information if it was definitely published.

with II - DVC could wait until a member wanted to use II to send II the points.

RCI arrangement then was different - DVC had to do the reservations IN ADVANCE - which is why there were left over reservations. Or so I got told when I asked why there were left overs.

Yes, there may be differences in the way the system will work. RCI does have different exchange mechanisms than II. Some may find one "better" than the other - some will just find the system's "different" - not really better or worse. As long as the exchanges work, the system is likely irrelevant.

will admit that anything not in the South - don't know about with either company. Still I am going only to be using the South - that is all care about.

II has the better resorts in the South. that is not an opinion - but a fact.

What's the source for the "fact. It still sure looks like an opinion to me.

did use my dvc to trade once to Las Vegas - a good friend was getting married there and this was their wedding present. DVC did a great job and so did II. my friend was very happy.

now my timeshares that I trade to II is also listed with RCI - it is VRI resort.

so can definitely put it with RCI - but might just kept it with II. Still love the Marriotts and can't (at present) afford them.

So, you have a resort with dual affiliation? Is it a better resort under II than it is under RCI when you stay there? The resort I own with dual affiliation (and has been on the WP list under both systems) is exactly the same regardless which system is used for the exchange. Will those who exchange into DVC resorts under RCI find that the resort isn't as nice as it was under II?
I'm just trying to understand how II resorts are "better" when some resorts participate in both systems.
 
OK....
Can we still trade into II now? Can I call today and make a ressie....or till Dec 31st?
Or are they only honoring trades already done
Kerrri
 
why did DVC leave RCI
Depending on who you believe, one big contributing reason was that RCI would not allow DVC to charge inbound exchangers a fee that they didn't charge everyone else (the $95 Resort Services Fee). II would. This has since changed, and RCI has softened its stance. For example, Manhattan Club charges a nightly "hospitality fee", and this charge is imposed only on RCI Exchangers---not owners, not those exchanging in through independent exchange companies like SFX, and not guests of owners.

DVC had to do the reservations IN ADVANCE
It is possible for large club memberships to negotiate this away. For example, Wyndham owners can do search-first spot-searches of RCI inventory without committing points to RCI. I think WorldMark owners can do ongoing searches without committing points irrevocably, but am not 100% sure.

Wyndham and RCI keep a running tab of what Wyndham points get used for exchange when, and Wyndham has to "balance the books" by depositing inventory into RCI periodically. As Wyndham has a good sense for how many exchanges get made over time, they can plan ahead to decide what to deposit to maximize internal inventory for members.
 
alldiz said:
OK....
Can we still trade into II now? Can I call today and make a ressie....or till Dec 31st?
Or are they only honoring trades already done
Kerrri

II exchanges are still being made thru the end of this year. II and DVC will honor any future exchanges made by that date, but it appears that no DVC/II exchanges will be allowed to be reserved beginning in 2009.

The relationship with RCI begins on 1/1/09.
 
II exchanges are still being made thru the end of this year. II and DVC will honor any future exchanges made by that date, but it appears that no DVC/II exchanges will be allowed to be reserved beginning in 2009.

The relationship with RCI begins on 1/1/09.

Thanks....I might have to call and try to get the Surf Club in Aruba before it's too late. I am flexible with dates....hopefully I'll get lucky:goodvibes
Kerri
 
I can't speak as a DVC owner but I can tell you the difference from 13 years ago to now. I work in this business and have dealt internally with RCI and II for 15 years now. 15 years ago you could get good swaps through RCI. Some locations were hard, and resort quality was good. Once RCI stock went public, things changed. Inventory was taken from exchanges by their marketing dept. (and that came straight from a territory mgr. at RCI ) and was placed into the getaway dept. So when you would call RCI to do an exch. there was no availability, but if you called the getaway dept. to buy a week, there it was. Over the years they found out it was more profitable to sell weeks than exch. them, thus making exchanges very difficult. You can get an RCI membership now without even owning timeshare. A local businessmans club for vets. gets a free RCI membership with or without timeshare ownerhship. Also, the resorts that opened in late 80's early 90's that were good quality, never renovated again. Cape Cod in particular has a lot of disgusting resorts. My rep. won't even let any of my members exchange there because they know how bad they are and that's her territory.
It was a good 18 years before my resort did a renovation so for all that time people traded in to a resort that had bad accomodations. Even members with strong red weeks have difficulty. The suites at Hershey park in Pa. takes a good 1-1 1/2 years to get into. They only get about 3 deposited units each summer. There's a resort in RHode island that has not had a deposited (not even 1) in 9 years. So when RCI says they have more resorts to choose from, not really. II is smaller yes, but they are more knowledgable people, and rarely a disappointment when you arrive at the property.


My confidence runneth over!!:headache:
 
I can't speak as a DVC owner but I can tell you the difference from 13 years ago to now. I work in this business and have dealt internally with RCI and II for 15 years now. 15 years ago you could get good swaps through RCI. Some locations were hard, and resort quality was good. Once RCI stock went public, things changed. Inventory was taken from exchanges by their marketing dept. (and that came straight from a territory mgr. at RCI ) and was placed into the getaway dept. So when you would call RCI to do an exch. there was no availability, but if you called the getaway dept. to buy a week, there it was. Over the years they found out it was more profitable to sell weeks than exch. them, thus making exchanges very difficult. You can get an RCI membership now without even owning timeshare. A local businessmans club for vets. gets a free RCI membership with or without timeshare ownerhship. Also, the resorts that opened in late 80's early 90's that were good quality, never renovated again. Cape Cod in particular has a lot of disgusting resorts. My rep. won't even let any of my members exchange there because they know how bad they are and that's her territory.
It was a good 18 years before my resort did a renovation so for all that time people traded in to a resort that had bad accomodations. Even members with strong red weeks have difficulty. The suites at Hershey park in Pa. takes a good 1-1 1/2 years to get into. They only get about 3 deposited units each summer. There's a resort in RHode island that has not had a deposited (not even 1) in 9 years. So when RCI says they have more resorts to choose from, not really. II is smaller yes, but they are more knowledgable people, and rarely a disappointment when you arrive at the property.

Great post....Pretty much backs up what I have been saying about RCI. Hopefully this new contract with RCI is short.
 
I don't think any of us know why DVC left RCI and moved to II years ago nor why the reverse now other than they thought it was the best move at the time. The question is best move for who, that we also don't truly know. Even if they give you a detailed explanation, you can't count on it being a complete evaluation of the reasoning for that you'd need details and contracts as well as detailed proposals from both II and RCI as you can bet II had their say. I have to think there will be more than meets the eye for DVC to make this change. Hopefully there will be other options that are in the DVC members favor that we don't know about yet. Certainly access to the points resorts 10 months out would be one such benefit that is possible. I think it's hard to argue with a straight face that RCI's top 500 resorts are equal to II's top 500 but that really isn't the real question. The real question is what can you really get out of those resorts. Plus if the resorts you want are there (or not there) that really is all that matters. Given the internal trading preference of Marriott and Westin, the top 10-12% of that 500 were not reasonably available for prime time with II but you did have a chance at those resorts during slightly lower times. Maybe RCI will give DVC resorts better trade power, we shall see.
 
Great post....Pretty much backs up what I have been saying about RCI. Hopefully this new contract with RCI is short.
Usually these deals are 3 or 5 years but there are likely outs if RCI doesn't uphold their end of the bargain. One thing is for certain, not only does this give RCI members a major upgrade, it also is likely to keep RCI more on the straight and narrow in those areas many think they've been shady.
 
Resigned to the fact that DVC will be affiliated with RCI, I'm starting to wonder what kind of membership will we have? Will it be RCI points or weeks? Will we be able to search online? Will we be able to rent out RCI weeks?
 















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