DVC to add RCI as trade

[Anal Annie]

I wonder how hard/easy it will be to do an exchange at the Hilton Hawaiian Village under RCI?

For stays on Oahu I would just wait for the new DVC at Ko'Olina to be finished...ALTHOUGH the point charts for the new DVC may be higher than trading out if they are anything like BLT!

 

[Brian Noble]

For those that are interested, you can look at the RCI directory on line.
http://www.rci.com/RCI/RCIW/RCIW_index?body=RCIW_rdMain

I would assume that most Gold Crown properties would be considered for inclusion in DVC's "approved resorts" list. Maybe a few Silver Crowns depending on the area---there are some dual-affiliated resorts that are Silver Crown in RCI that were on the "approved" list in II.

As for HI options, here are the counts of Gold Crown resorts:

Big Island, Hawaii [12]
Kauai [9]
Maui [4]
Oahu [5]

I can't speak to availability at any of these, as I don't typically search HI.

 

[tomandrobin]

But are there any GOOD ones on Maui? I stayed in one once many years ago that was pretty much a slum. I guess each unit was decorated and maintained by the individual owners...more like a condo than a timeshare I guess. Anyway, it was nasty and I would never go that route again. Bummer about Aruba only having 1 option...

There are a few, it depends on what you want and expect from a resort. For me, there is maybe two or three resorts on Maui I would consider. But I have become a bit of a hotel snob these days. I like comfy beds, big pool areas, on site dining options, on site gym (which only 10 of the Maui resorts have), concierge staff, general store for odds and ends.

Only 4 on Maui are considered Gold Crown.

 

[tjkraz]

First, thanks Brian and tomandrobin for your insight.

DVC is not a terrible trader, just not a top tier trader as we are told by DVC. But all timeshare salesmen over sell the trading potential of their units. For example, I own Starwood timeshares. Every sales center has these big pictures of St John and Atlantis on the wall. Every sales pitch at Starwood will tell you how easy it is to internally exchange into those resorts. Even as a Starwood owner, it is very unlikely to get into those resorts.

In response to this, I think it's tough to really point a finger at the salesperson when II holds all of the cards. Is it reasonable for the DVC salesperson to be able to speak definitively about the likelihood of trading into "X" destination during "Y" time of the year when calling on "Z" months notice?

I think this comment from Brian is also worth pondering:

What's more, while DVC is growing, the overall demand for inbounds to DVC is not growing as fast. So, over time, DVC's supply/demand curve should slip. Objectively that's been happening---it's been much easier to get DVC exchanges as time goes on, though that could also be related to leisure travel demand generally.

If the curve is already slipping, our trading power within II certainly isn't going to get any better.

What I'm reading is that DVC resorts simply aren't up to the quality standards of many other timeshares, and the people who are trading thru II simply aren't falling over themselves to book DVC properties. Without more II members wanting to get into DVC, success levels were only going to drop over time. I know this may be a tough pill for members to swallow but perhaps DVC just isn't worthy of being lumped into II and RCI will prove to be a better match.

In another thread tomandrobin posted a list of some of the highest-rated resorts in each program. But has anyone ever heard of a DVC member getting into those elite destinations? I vaguely remember some fuss a couple years ago about DVC getting access to Atlantis, only to see it pulled a few months later because it was never available to book.

While the II list may be more impressive, if II won't ever give DVC members access to that slate of resorts it's just an illusion.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Gold Crown doesn't necessarily mean it's up to our standards. We stayed in a "gold Crown" RCI resort on Kauai a few years ago on an RCI exchange, and it was far inferior to the II exchange we had on Hawaii. Location, amenities, finishes etc, etc, were all much better at the II exchange than at the RCI one.

 

[Anal Annie]

There are a few, it depends on what you want and expect from a resort. For me, there is maybe two or three resorts on Maui I would consider. But I have become a bit of a hotel snob these days. I like comfy beds, big pool areas, on site dining options, on site gym (which only 10 of the Maui resorts have), concierge staff, general store for odds and ends.

Only 4 on Maui are considered Gold Crown.

NOBODY can satisfy me with their beds as we have a Select Comfort bed at home and my "sleep number" is like 25 which is WAY soft. Most beds are too firm for me and I end up sleeping sitting up on vacation so that I can stand up the next day.

We are not such hotel snobs, but definitely want something nice. Last time on Maui we stayed at the Sheraton at Black Rock - it was actually a pretty nice property. The time before that we stayed in Wailea - it is now a Marriott but at the time it was the Outrigger next door to the Grand Wailea - also a pretty nice property which I believe has been refurbished as a Marriott. The time before THAT was the "condo slum" mess. The time before THAT I stayed at the Marriott Ocean Club - back before it was converted to timeshares.

I will have to check out that link that Brian posted...

 

[Starr W.]

There are a few, it depends on what you want and expect from a resort. For me, there is maybe two or three resorts on Maui I would consider. But I have become a bit of a hotel snob these days. I like comfy beds, big pool areas, on site dining options, on site gym (which only 10 of the Maui resorts have), concierge staff, general store for odds and ends.

Only 4 on Maui are considered Gold Crown.

I nabbed a Wyndham on the Big Island for 2010 with my freebie deposits from my Bluegreen resale. So I've been researching HI on both II/RCI(with some help from Dean). For Maui and Kaui, I'll be setting things up in II with my Starwood week. With RCI, my initial request will be with the Hiltons. .

The one thing I have noticed with RCI, is some of the resorts do these huge bankings of weeks and way out too. Hence how I got the Wyndham Kona Hawaiian for 2010 a few weeks ago.

 

[jamstew]

But are there any GOOD ones on Maui? I stayed in one once many years ago that was pretty much a slum. I guess each unit was decorated and maintained by the individual owners...more like a condo than a timeshare I guess. Anyway, it was nasty and I would never go that route again. Bummer about Aruba only having 1 option...

I don't know since I've never been. I thought you were just asking about the number of properties. My bad

 

[Anal Annie]

For those that are interested, you can look at the RCI directory on line.
http://www.rci.com/RCI/RCIW/RCIW_index?body=RCIW_rdMain

I would assume that most Gold Crown properties would be considered for inclusion in DVC's "approved resorts" list. Maybe a few Silver Crowns depending on the area---there are some dual-affiliated resorts that are Silver Crown in RCI that were on the "approved" list in II.

As for HI options, here are the counts of Gold Crown resorts:

Big Island, Hawaii [12]
Kauai [9]
Maui [4]
Oahu [5]

I can't speak to availability at any of these, as I don't typically search HI.

That list is pretty disappointing. How can you tell which ones are the "Gold Crown" ones? Do we need to look only at ones that specify RCI points?

Nevermind, I figured out how to find the "gold crown".

 

[tomandrobin]

In response to this, I think it's tough to really point a finger at the salesperson when II holds all of the cards. Is it reasonable for the DVC salesperson to be able to speak definitively about the likelihood of trading into "X" destination during "Y" time of the year when calling on "Z" months notice?

But most salesmen are there to sell, I bet many of the DVC salesforce have never used an outside exchange company. We go to timeshare sales pitches and "owner updates" for our timeshares and are amazed by the lack of knowledge most have about exchanging or even thier own resort systems. On my last "owners update" my sales guide didn't even know one of the resorts I own, bought from the same company.

If the curve is already slipping, our trading power within II certainly isn't going to get any better.

What I'm reading is that DVC resorts simply aren't up to the quality standards of many other timeshares, and the people who are trading thru II simply aren't falling over themselves to book DVC properties. Without more II members wanting to get into DVC, success levels were only going to drop over time. I know this may be a tough pill for members to swallow but perhaps DVC just isn't worthy of being lumped into II and RCI will prove to be a better match.

DVC offers great location for WDW, after that most of the resorts lack amenities. I think DVC is fine within II. I think the biggest problem with DVC and exchanging is the total control DVC has over inventory. Its very rare to see a two bedroom deposited into II, but a ton of studios. If members had control of thier own deposits, you would see better results.

In another thread tomandrobin posted a list of some of the highest-rated resorts in each program. But has anyone ever heard of a DVC member getting into those elite destinations? I vaguely remember some fuss a couple years ago about DVC getting access to Atlantis, only to see it pulled a few months later because it was never available to book.

While the II list may be more impressive, if II won't ever give DVC members access to that slate of resorts it's just an illusion.

Actually DVC resorts rate pretty high on the tug reviews. BCV, VWL, SSR, OKW and BWV are all rated in the top 20 resorts.

There is very limited success in trading into the top tier resorts. But those results are typical for all timeshares trying to trade in to the same resorts. As a owner in Starwood, I could not trade into St John or Atlantis during the summer. Not getting into Atlantis is not becuase of poor trading power, its because of sheer popularity. I know of Ocean Front Westin Maui owners who were not able to trade in to Atlantis or St John, even though they own top notch resorts themselves.

 

[tjkraz]

There is very limited success in trading into the top tier resorts. But those results are typical for all timeshares trying to trade in to the same resorts. As a owner in Starwood, I could not trade into St John or Atlantis during the summer. Not getting into Atlantis is not becuase of poor trading power, its because of sheer popularity. I know of Ocean Front Westin Maui owners who were not able to trade in to Atlantis or St John, even though they own top notch resorts themselves.

Fair enough. But as I understand it, with DVC not being top tier II resorts members have virtually no chance of trading into a top tier. If that's true, it's a little misleading to even dwell on the best that II has to offer vs. the best RCI has to offer. Supply and demand is one thing we can all understand but the reality appears to be that DVC owners just won't have access to the same destinations as Ocean Front Westin Maui owners.

I believe someone (Dean?) said that RCI's system is different from II in that greater weight is given to how far out the request is made. Could it be that this advance booking priority (which seems to be near-and-dear to DVC members) combined with DVC having higher standing in RCI than II would basically give us the run of the program?

I keep going back to the idea of II being an illusion to DVC members. Sure there are great destinations, but many of those elite resorts are virtually off-limits to us. And unless people spend hours studying and reading-up on sites like this or TUG, they'll continue trying to book destinations that they realistically have no chances of getting due to the bias inherent to the II system.

 

[Starr W.]

Fair enough. But as I understand it, with DVC not being top tier II resorts members have virtually no chance of trading into a top tier. If that's true, it's a little misleading to even dwell on the best that II has to offer vs. the best RCI has to offer. Supply and demand is one thing we can all understand but the reality appears to be that DVC owners just won't have access to the same destinations as Ocean Front Westin Maui owners.

I believe someone (Dean?) said that RCI's system is different from II in that greater weight is given to how far out the request is made. Could it be that this advance booking priority (which seems to be near-and-dear to DVC members) combined with DVC having higher standing in RCI than II would basically give us the run of the program?

I keep going back to the idea of II being an illusion to DVC members. Sure there are great destinations, but many of those elite resorts are virtually off-limits to us. And unless people spend hours studying and reading-up on sites like this or TUG, they'll continue trying to book destinations that they realistically have no chances of getting due to the bias inherent to the II system.

I don't think it's because of trading power, it's the fact that II deposits for Atlantis/Harborside and St. John hardly ever show up. Those owners either use their week or rent them out or possibly do a internal Starwood exchange(which is rare also, according to Tomandrobin, that's why he bought at Harborside). My Starwood week is "voluntary" which means no internal exchanges for me.

There were some hurricane season 09 Harborside deposits into II. Most of the longtime Tuggers who search II were surprised, as earlier this year with some of the HI inventory that was showing up.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

If the curve is already slipping, our trading power within II certainly isn't going to get any better.

What I'm reading is that DVC resorts simply aren't up to the quality standards of many other timeshares, and the people who are trading thru II simply aren't falling over themselves to book DVC properties. Without more II members wanting to get into DVC, success levels were only going to drop over time. I know this may be a tough pill for members to swallow but perhaps DVC just isn't worthy of being lumped into II and RCI will prove to be a better match.

.

Well I don't totally agree here. There was/is very limited DVC inventory to trade into....mostly OKW, SSR. A few BWV and BCV do appear, but not with any amount of inventory. So who's to say the trade power is less if the inventory is not there from the beginning?

Secondly, trades were possible tru II. DVC members were never fully educated on the best possible strategy's for obtaining those trades (thanks to Dean for all of his advice!!).

Thirdly, I would much rather have quality options for trading, then to have tenfold mediocre/poor trade options. All that does is place false expectations to traders, and after a few disappointing trades, who's gonna keep taking their chances? Lets know from the git go our options are quality, high standard exchanges. I don't want to waste my time or points just for the sake of "getting an exchange".

 

[AnnaS]

Subscribing.

Am I understanding this correct? If my brother's match does not come through by the end of December - he needs to do a new search or cancel the search/match for 09 - waiting for the Royal Sands.

TIA.

 

[tjkraz]

I don't think it's because of trading power, it's the fact that II deposits for Atlantis/Harborside and St. John hardly ever show up. Those owners either use their week or rent them out or possibly do a internal Starwood exchange(which is rare also, according to Tomandrobin, that's why he bought at Harborside). My Starwood week is "voluntary" which means no internal exchanges for me.

Let me rephrase.

It seems that several agree DVC is not in the top tier of II's resorts. And II definitely gives preference on trades to those who are depositing a higher tier accommodation.

So, let's throw supply and demand out the window. That's a given.

If we have a DVC member and the owner of a "top tier" resort both trying book another "top tier", the DVC owner is at a disadvantage. And it could be this disadvantage, and the accompanying lack of success with II, that has lead DVC to look into other alternatives.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Subscribing.

Am I understanding this correct? If my brother's match does not come through by the end of December - he needs to do a new search or cancel the search/match for 09 - waiting for the Royal Sands.

TIA.

As I understand it, if he does not get a match by Dec 31, 2008, his search will be cancelled, any points returned, and all of us will no longer be able to exchange into II.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

But are there any GOOD ones on Maui? I stayed in one once many years ago that was pretty much a slum. I guess each unit was decorated and maintained by the individual owners...more like a condo than a timeshare I guess. Anyway, it was nasty and I would never go that route again. Bummer about Aruba only having 1 option...

We own a condo at the Maui Banyan, so we are happy with the "condo" experience, but understand that many others prefer a "resort."

Unfortunatley, most of the best RCI proerties (from my quick review of the RCI list) are probably the ones in condo complexes, such as the The Whaler at Kaanapali and the Outrigger Palms in Wailea. Of these two, only the Whaler is oceanfront with a great location on Kaanapali Beach. There are other oceanfront options in Kahana and Honokawai (sp?), but these areas of the Island tend to have more traffic than we like (but I will admit to a strong South Maui preference). I would think that a switch from II to RCI is a downgrade for Maui. -- Suzanne

 

[jblrn2b]

Not to be negative - but - my friend has RCI or whatever its called and its one of the reasons we decided to buy DVC - she as a member has a hard time getting a reservation. I hope its positive for DVC.

 

[tjkraz]

Well I don't totally agree here. There was/is very limited DVC inventory to trade into....mostly OKW, SSR. A few BWV and BCV do appear, but not with any amount of inventory. So who's to say the trade power is less if the inventory is not there from the beginning?

If you read Brian Noble's post, he does a pretty good job of explaining how the supply/demand curve is already not favorable for DVC members and is probably getting worse.

Brian isn't even a DVC member but he owns other timeshares and has traded frequently, including multiple trades into DVC. I've heard many say that DVC inventory within II has continued to increase in recent years. That seems to confirm that DVC resorts don't have as much demand as others. And if our resorts aren't in the top tier of demand among other II members, we aren't going to have the power to book top tier resorts.

Secondly, trades were possible tru II. DVC members were never fully educated on the best possible strategy's for obtaining those trades (thanks to Dean for all of his advice!!).

What else should DVC be doing to inform members? Your comments suggest that this is a failing on their part. What do other timeshare companies do to educate their members?

Thirdly, I would much rather have quality options for trading, then to have tenfold mediocre/poor trade options. All that does is place false expectations to traders, and after a few disappointing trades, who's gonna keep taking their chances? Lets know from the git go our options are quality, high standard exchanges. I don't want to waste my time or points just for the sake of "getting an exchange".

I'm suggesting that the false expectations may be in the opposite direction. DVC members are presented with these great lists of II destinations, but it's of little value if our odds of getting into the top tier properties are infinitesimal.

If I'm wrong here and people have experience with booking great locations using their DVC points, please speak up.

As for the quality of accommodations, I've also heard that many of the II destinations are well under the quality of what DVC has to offer. It seems that regardless of which trading company we are associated with, members would be wise to do their homework about the properties before accepting a trade.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

If you read Brian Noble's post, he does a pretty good job of explaining how the supply/demand curve is already not favorable for DVC members and is probably getting worse.

Brian isn't even a DVC member but he owns other timeshares and has traded frequently, including multiple trades into DVC. I've heard many say that DVC inventory within II has continued to increase in recent years. That seems to confirm that DVC resorts don't have as much demand as others. And if our resorts aren't in the top tier of demand among other II members, we aren't going to have the power to book top tier resorts.



What else should DVC be doing to inform members? Your comments suggest that this is a failing on their part. What do other timeshare companies do to educate their members?



I'm suggesting that the false expectations may be in the opposite direction. DVC members are presented with these great lists of II destinations, but it's of little value if our odds of getting into the top tier properties are infinitesimal.

If I'm wrong here and people have experience with booking great locations using their DVC points, please speak up.

As for the quality of accommodations, I've also heard that many of the II destinations are well under the quality of what DVC has to offer. It seems that regardless of which trading company we are associated with, members would be wise to do their homework about the properties before accepting a trade.

I have read Brian's post, and he does leave this particular info out. How do you know there is not the demand when there is not the supply? Not going to argue here, you have one posters opinion. Remember, Disney has not allowed us as members to fully partiicpate in II as regular paying members have access. This directly reflects the percentage of exchanges made, as well as having access to ALL of II inventory. We're not talking apples to apples here.

No one is saying DVC is the number #1 top rated resorts to trade into, as are not all of II resorts. Certainly DVC has standards that meet requirements to be included in II.

How many DVC'rs actually understand exchanging at all? If they don't understand it, their not going to do it, and possibly not do it right. There is a method, and if Disney is going to promote this as an inclusion of our timeshare purchases, they owe it to their members to be more informative of the process, and pitfalls. If it was an optional, paid service by members, then they have no obligation.