DVC to add RCI as trade

[spiceycat]

why can't DVC do both?

other timeshares definitely do. If westgate is in II and RCI - why can't DVC?

really think members would be better off if we control the exchanges.

then we could with the independent ones - that definitely have better trades.

 

[tjkraz]

I have read Brian's post, and he does leave this particular info out. How do you know there is not the demand when there is not the supply? Not going to argue here, you have one posters opinion.

Well, I'd love to hear from more people but aside from Brian all we seem to have is anecdotal evidence. I'm just trying to connect the dots given the limited information we have so far.

Do you know of any DVC members who have used their points to book a Four Seasons or other elite resort via II?

Remember, Disney has not allowed us as members to fully partiicpate in II as regular paying members have access. This directly reflects the percentage of exchanges made, as well as having access to ALL of II inventory. We're not talking apples to apples here.

My understanding is that DVC filters has filtered the II list to eliminate other Orlando-based timeshares (understandable) and lower-quality properties. If that's not right, please enlighten me. But if true, I don't see how adding those locations (at least the lower-quality ones) would improve our standing. DVC owners wouldn't gain more power in the II system just because demand increases vis-a-vis those who own lower-tier properties.

How many DVC'rs actually understand exchanging at all? If they don't understand it, their not going to do it, and possibly not do it right. There is a method, and if Disney is going to promote this as an inclusion of our timeshare purchases, they owe it to their members to be more informative of the process, and pitfalls. If it was an optional, paid service by members, then they have no obligation.

I would argue the other way--people certainly know that exchanging is an option, they just don't take the time to understand it unless they intend to use it.

DVC has plenty of material in our yearly planners, quarterly member mags, on the website, etc. Those who wish to use the system can certainly find out how to deposit their points, initiate a search, etc.

What we don't know is what really happens behind the scenes. That's largely in II's hands. Heck, this thread is a prime example as we can't even agree on how much "power" DVC has. But II isn't about to provide any answers to that question.

And it's unrealistic to think that either DVC or II would ever come right out and say "you have virtually no chance of booking the Four Seasons Residence Club at Troon with DVC points."

 

[dioxide45]

I have read Brian's post, and he does leave this particular info out. How do you know there is not the demand when there is not the supply? Not going to argue here, you have one posters opinion. Remember, Disney has not allowed us as members to fully partiicpate in II as regular paying members have access. This directly reflects the percentage of exchanges made, as well as having access to ALL of II inventory. We're not talking apples to apples here.

No one is saying DVC is the number #1 top rated resorts to trade into, as are not all of II resorts. Certainly DVC has standards that meet requirements to be included in II.

How many DVC'rs actually understand exchanging at all? If they don't understand it, their not going to do it, and possibly not do it right. There is a method, and if Disney is going to promote this as an inclusion of our timeshare purchases, they owe it to their members to be more informative of the process, and pitfalls. If it was an optional, paid service by members, then they have no obligation.

Do realize that II treats all premier Orlando resorts the same with regards to demand. II has a travel demand index by region and week (not by resort), if you are trading a week at any premier resort in Orlando it will have the same trading power as another premier resort in Orlando. Each week of the year is given a different demand level.

The problem with this is that there are many brands (Marriott, DVC) that are requested more but garner the same trading power as lesser know brands or independants. Orlando is overbuilt with timeshares and in general has lower demand than many other areas in the country. Also with DVC holding the cards and picking what they deposit, they may not be depositing a week for you that is in high demand, but rather a week with the lowest demand. So this too will deminish your trading power.

 

[tjkraz]

Also with DVC holding the cards and picking what they deposit, they may not be depositing a week for you that is in high demand, but rather a week with the lowest demand. So this too will deminish your trading power.

Do you have any idea how II views DVC deposits? Is in an aggregate where all DVC deposits are viewed equally or is it more of a 1-to-1 relationship as you seem to suggest above?

In other words, if DVC decides to deposit a SSR studio in September (assume very low demand) for my request, do I specifically get penalized?

 

[spiceycat]

My understanding is that DVC filters has filtered the II list to eliminate other Orlando-based timeshares (understandable) and lower-quality properties. If that's not right, please enlighten me. But if true, I don't see how adding those locations (at least the lower-quality ones) would improve our standing. DVC owners wouldn't gain more power in the II system just because demand increases vis-a-vis those who own lower-tier properties.

most of II choices are not the best - now the best are listed - but some of the others are there because II has nothing better in that area.

Gatlinburg, Tenn - is a good example.

they are now listing Westgate - but if you have ever been to a Westgate resort their sales people are the worst. they will hound you. since I don't want to be hounded on vacation then I won't do westgate.

now at one time Marriott was going there - but changed their minds?

if DVC members traded with II instead of MS. you would control the weeks you booked - you might book a lessor week - but then again if you wanted a great trade then you could book Christmas week or Easter week - both of which are top traders even in Orlando.

MS doesn't give II those weeks, most of the time, there have been exceptions. but on the whole MS just doesn't give up their best weeks.

if you traded thru II you would have the right to do this. So yes you could get better trades thru II than MS does.

Plus as I say if you controlled the trades you could go thru the independents.

going to RCI with the same rules - is a mistake. It was the first time and now it will be even worst.

MS does not know what they are trading you too. with a little research and the reviews on tug - you could know.

some of the nicest timeshares are not in the top - but you have to go to one to see that.

 

[Starr W.]

Let me rephrase.

It seems that several agree DVC is not in the top tier of II's resorts. And II definitely gives preference on trades to those who are depositing a higher tier accommodation.

So, let's throw supply and demand out the window. That's a given.

If we have a DVC member and the owner of a "top tier" resort both trying book another "top tier", the DVC owner is at a disadvantage. And it could be this disadvantage, and the accompanying lack of success with II, that has lead DVC to look into other alternatives.

Well we do have one member who has a thread "Live from one of the HI Westins". We have another member that just got their match to a Westin in HI. And I know there is someone who got one of the Royals for end of May/early June 09, which I'm sure is a 2br unit.

The problem is DVC picks the week and resort to deposit for you. You're deposit might be any of the resorts including HHI and VB. They do throw some crums in more popular times for usually studios. I did see this summer a BCV studio for F&W timeframe. There was a bunch of inventory including a SSR GV for the week before Thanksgiving. That's not giving you really good trading power.

Plus Marriott has their preference period, as does Starwood for their owners.

 

[spiceycat]

Subscribing.

Am I understanding this correct? If my brother's match does not come through by the end of December - he needs to do a new search or cancel the search/match for 09 - waiting for the Royal Sands.

TIA.

call ms and check - but I think you are okay.

you started the search in 2008. So pretty sure it still okay.

 

[Brian Noble]

I have read Brian's post, and he does leave this particular info out. How do you know there is not the demand when there is not the supply?

There is supply, it is increasing relative to demand, and you can measure it. As DVC grows, more units get deposited. That's not because individual members are depositing more often, but because there are just simply more members. Unless demand keeps pace with that growth, the supply/demand curve slips.

I've searched DVC nearly daily for almost two years. Even in that short time, the number of units in the "leftover" pile each morning (after ongoing searches have matched) has grown noticeably. It's more common to see units (even 1BRs) in BWV and VWL in addition to OKW/SSR, where before you might go days without seeing either resort at all. I'll let others who also search II chime in with their own impressions, but that's my sense.

If you happen to be a member of TS4M, you can check this yourself by going back a few years' worth of posted Interval sightings, to verify or dispute my sense of things. One of the TS4M members posts Disney sightings nearly every day.

Now, to be fair, this increase in available units could just be because leisure travel is depressed right now. But, this trend reaches back to before the mid-summer gas price spike (and well before the fall stock market collapse). It could also be due to the heavy use of developers points that sound good in a sales meeting, but can't really be used before they expire, so they are deposited in hopes of a future exchange. Whatever the reason, though, the result is plain: there are more units not being taken by ongoing search, and that's not good for the supply/demand curve.

The DVC units, strictly on their own merits, tend to be "good", but not outstanding. I'd compare OKW to the better Wyndhams we've been in---nice appliances, but average soft goods, cheap countertops, etc. The quality of the hard and soft goods in SSR is better, but the unit size is small compared to similar non-Disney resorts. As an example, it's really sad that a unit that sleeps six privately, and eight maximum, has a table that only seats four.

Outside of the units, the resorts stack up nicely. Excellent pool areas, a nice slate of broader activities, excellent landscaping, etc. Nothing exceptional, but very nice.

But, what DVC really offers is the on-property experience. That appeals to some, but not others. It may not appeal to the "typical" timeshare owner as much as it might to the average family---timeshare owners are more likely to have older kids, or be empty nesters, and visiting Mickey is something that many people think of as something they do when the kids (or grandkids) are little. Worse, the Resort Services Fee means that an exchange into DVC is $95 more than an exchange into any Orlando resort. So, if you aren't there specifically for Disney, why pay extra when you can stay in a better-equipped, larger Marriott resort for less?

The advantage to RCI for DVC Members is that there is a larger base of people who might want to exchange in. That exposes the units to a larger demand pool, and DVC is absolutely unique---for those that want to visit Disney (as opposed to "Orlando" or "Florida") the DVC resorts offer something that none of the others can touch. While that's a niche market, the size of RCI's niche is larger than the size of II's niche, and that bodes well for the supply/demand curve.

Whether that matters---whether there are resorts that Members want to exchange into---is certainly up for debate. My personal experience with exchanging in the two systems is that in areas where II has sufficient coverage, the II resorts are higher quality. But, there are areas where II doesn't have much in the way of inventory, and RCI does. I'm not sure I'll retain my II account after DVC leaves the fold.

The one caveat to all of this: if DVC negotiates a 1-in-4 rule with RCI (and I've read a report that at least one RCI VC has said this this), it will artificially reduce demand for inbound exchanges, and while that's great news for Disney (increases sales traffic and provides another reason to buy) it's bad news for DVC owners who may want to exchange some day.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The one caveat to all of this: if DVC negotiates a 1-in-4 rule with RCI (and I've read a report that at least one RCI VC has said this this), it will artificially reduce demand for inbound exchanges, and while that's great news for Disney (increases sales traffic and provides another reason to buy) it's bad news for DVC owners who may want to exchange some day.

Yes, and I fear this is the "real" underlying reason for the switch. As has been previously posted, these "enhancements" are never for the benefit of members! Great post.

 

[Brian Noble]

Do you have any idea how II views DVC deposits? Is in an aggregate where all DVC deposits are viewed equally or is it more of a 1-to-1 relationship as you seem to suggest above?

It almost doesn't matter, because DVC chooses deposits, and they intentionally deposit smaller units, at lesser-demanded resorts, during lesser-demanded times. So, if it's aggregated, you get the average of lesser time. If it's not, sometimes you might get lucky, but mostly you won't.

Now, that might be good enough to get Members the trades they want, but my experience with Wyndham suggests that, in RCI, it has a noticeable negative impact. Wyndham used to allow UDI owners to reserve and deposit specific weeks into RCI from their home resort, and that specific week determined trading power. About two years ago or so, that feature was removed. Now, Wyndham chooses all weeks that are deposited, and just like DVC, they deposit lesser resorts at lower-demand times whenever they can, reserving the best times at the best resorts for internal bookings.

When this change happened, there was a noticeable drop in the trade power of Wyndham "generics" in RCI, which are valued based on an average of all Wyndham weeks in the system. On the other hand, the best time at the best resorts is more likely to be available to owners booking internally, and in many eyes, that's a more than fair trade.

 

[rickandcindy23]

The one caveat to all of this: if DVC negotiates a 1-in-4 rule with RCI (and I've read a report that at least one RCI VC has said this this), it will artificially reduce demand for inbound exchanges, and while that's great news for Disney (increases sales traffic and provides another reason to buy) it's bad news for DVC owners who may want to exchange some day.

Brian, you forgot one of the great things about owning at any upscale resort in RCI: Owners at resorts that have a 1-in-4 are usually exempt from that 1-in-four rule. I would hope that would also be the case for DVC members. I will consider a small purchase of DVC points myself, if that is the case. Ownership does have its privileges.

I also hope my Wyndham points will exchange into DVC, too. My Foxrun weeks, well, they may work just fine in RCI to get my DVC trades, but I get that bonus week with II, and I cannot see paying my $615 in MF's for Foxrun, + $164 exchange fee with RCI, AND the $95 transportation fee. I can still get Marriotts with Foxrun, and I only have to pay $139 and no transportation fee as I do with DVC.

 

[Brian Noble]

I would hope that would also be the case for DVC members.

Well we'll know all the details in another month, if not before, but I'm not sure about that. If the RCI arrangement works like the II one currently does, DVC members will not have individual RCI accounts. If that's the case, you won't be able to add "other" weeks to your DVC RCI account, and your "other" RCI account won't be tagged as a DVC-owner. Disney being Disney, I don't imagine they'd want to give up control of the exchange process, and let people talk to RCI directly.

However, it's also possible that it gets arranged similar to Wyndham's RCI accounts, with a dedicated call center that handles only that resort system. With Wyndham, owners do get individual accounts, and they can add "other" weeks to it.

I also hope my Wyndham points will exchange into DVC, too.

It would be interesting. I can see nearly anything in Orlando, even in prime time, with a 70K red studio and often with a smaller one. That would be much less expensive than using my fixed weeks.

 

[tjkraz]

Yes, and I fear this is the "real" underlying reason for the switch. As has been previously posted, these "enhancements" are never for the benefit of members!

I tend to take the "glass is half full" approach until proven otherwise. It sort of mystifies me as to why people are so quick to assume the worst whenever a change--ANY change--is announced.

Witness the changes to the booking policies 6 months ago. We had a month of snide comments about how nobody ever requested that "enhancement" and how people would never get their reservations. Since the dust settled I've read almost universal praise over the ease of booking and phone calls saved under the new system.

We've known about this RCI change for less than 24 hours. Seems a little premature to jump onto the "DVC is trying to screw us!" bandwagon.

 

[kellykeenan]

My sister works for RCI and just called all excited that as a perk they will get entire weeks free at Boardwalk etc. I Googled the announcement through RCI and they have millions of customers that will also be getting access to our resorts. I am pretty angry right now! It's hard to get reservations 6 months in advance, now forget about it. Tell me I am wrong--please!!!!

 

[tjkraz]

My sister works for RCI and just called all excited that as a perk they will get entire weeks free at Boardwalk etc. I Googled the announcement through RCI and they have millions of customers that will also be getting access to our resorts. I am pretty angry right now! It's hard to get reservations 6 months in advance, now forget about it. Tell me I am wrong--please!!!!

You are wrong.

RCI members only gain access to DVC accommodations when a DVC member deposits days/weeks with RCI. And it's only the specific days/resort/room size deposited that can be booked through RCI. RCI members (and employees, too) do not get to just go into the DVC system and book whatever they wish.

 

[kellykeenan]

Thanks. The announcement I read did not mention that.

You are wrong.

RCI members only gain access to DVC accommodations when a DVC member deposits days/weeks with RCI. And it's only the specific days/resort/room size deposited that can be booked through RCI. RCI members (and employees, too) do not get to just go into the DVC system and book whatever they wish.

 

[bicker]

RCI members won't get any more access to DVC resorts than DVC members get access to RCI resorts. Exchanges will be, as they have always been, one for one.

 

[kellykeenan]

I've never used mine for exchanges, just Disney so I wasn't familiar with how it works. Thanks! That and with my sister telling me they were all invited to choose free weeks caused me to have a panic attack!!
nevermind...

RCI members won't get any more access to DVC resorts than DVC members get access to RCI resorts. Exchanges will be, as they have always been, one for one.

 

[littlestar]

My sister works for RCI and just called all excited that as a perk they will get entire weeks free at Boardwalk etc. I Googled the announcement through RCI and they have millions of customers that will also be getting access to our resorts. I am pretty angry right now! It's hard to get reservations 6 months in advance, now forget about it. Tell me I am wrong--please!!!!

Gosh, I hope this doesn't tinker with availability at our 11 and 7 month windows. Yuck.

 

[culli]

Gosh, I hope this doesn't tinker with availability at our 11 and 7 month windows. Yuck.

They can't give away inventory that someone has not exchanged. If nobody exchanges their DVC into RCI then RCI won't have any DVC. I'm not sure about all the technical stuff to do with developer or unsold inventory etc. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but it should be no differnt then II except I don't know what DVC will get in RCI vs II. IMHO II has some nice places and RCI has a lot of junk and this is bad news for DVC. Some say RCI has some nice stuff so who knows????