DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[DonMacGregor]

I don't think anyone here (or hardly anyone here) is defending that. That, IMO, is commercial renting. I think what people are discussing more is: "I booked a resort at 11 months and now can't go" OR "due to family/medical/work issues, I can't use all of my points next year."

The "problem" is, no one (or almost no one) is suggesting that "I booked a resort at 11 months and now can't go" OR "due to family/medical/work issues, I can't use all of my points next year'" should ever be considered commercial renting, or limited/prohibited by Disney. No one has suggested in this thread that all renting should be eliminated, or even that broader personal use renting should be curtailed.

However, every few pages someone new (or someone who feels the tide is shifting in the wrong direction for them personally) will pop on and come up with some ridiculously complicated "what if" straw man scenario, requiring more pretzel logic than a Gordian Knot wrapped in an Escher painting.

Over and over, every time someone points out an example of (inarguable) commercial renting, someone else will inevitably log on claiming that they, or someone they know, almost magically experienced almost the exact same scenario, swearing it was absolutely NOT commercial renting, and just really bad luck, life changes, whatever. Would they then be guilty of commercial renting?

Then you have the "If you come for the commercial renters, then Aunt Esther in Omaha will be next! Where will it stop?" crowd. Martin Niemöller is rolling in his grave.

If you create enough straw men, then the argument is that you really can't prohibit any renting because somewhere out there in the universe of logical fallacies, someone can create a "what if" scenario that conveniently (if you're a 9D chess playing sort of guy) seems to address even the most obvious and blatant examples of commercial renting. Instead of a spectrum with white at one end and black at the other, with shades of gray in between, there are people on here adamant that the spectrum is all gray, from end to end.

 

[VGCgroupie]

I cannot find that any DVC blogs, SM accounts, members etc went to the condo meeting. Has anyone else seen any recaps? The condo meeting that took place right after this was announced, so crazy to me. I know the weather was bad, but was that meeting empty or what.

 

[JackosinDIS]

I cannot find that any DVC blogs, SM accounts, members etc went to the condo meeting. Has anyone else seen any recaps? The condo meeting that took place right after this was announced, so crazy to me. I know the weather was bad, but was that meeting empty or what.

I’ve seen nothing… it’s like it never happened!

 

[VGCgroupie]

I’ve seen nothing… it’s like it never happened!

Now Im even more anxious for them to release the minutes from it.

 

[Sandisw]

I’m not sure how I feel about this

I rented out basically all of my points over the next 2 years recently because my house burned down and my priorities were on paying for the rebuild.

Now I feel like I need to feel weird about that.

I am sorry that you have to go through this but don’t feel weird at all.

The top post in the rental forum has me cracking up. This is what y’all are defending.

edit to add....

Someone has 4300pts for rent.

Seems to me that everyone here has said large point owners renting a lot of points that clearly seem like a business are the ones DVC should be looking at.

 

[Sandisw]

The fact that these posts almost never seem to specify a minimum number of points per rental makes me think that DVC has not even been enforcing the "20 reservations in a 12 month period" limit. If I was renting 2000 points I would probably want each reservation to be at least 200 points, so there were only 10 (or fewer) reservations in all, giving me a good safety margin below the 20 maximum, but these people seem just as happy to do a very high number of very small reservations.

Or, this owner has them spread over multiple memberships which allows them to get around that policy?

That’s something only DVC knows.

 

[Sandisw]

I cannot find that any DVC blogs, SM accounts, members etc went to the condo meeting. Has anyone else seen any recaps? The condo meeting that took place right after this was announced, so crazy to me. I know the weather was bad, but was that meeting empty or what.

The minutes from the meeting won’t be approved until September so nothing offical would show up until at least then.

My guess is since we have seen no reports, may be that no one active here went…and since these are resort specific, you could only attend your home resort.

Since the info I have gotten via my calls to Ms recently seem to be that this is not a policy change, Id speculate that it didn’t get discussed unless an owner brought it up?

I have been checking for the March minutes as those were approved so DVC should be posting those on the website.

 

[VGCgroupie]

The minutes from the meeting won’t be approved until September so nothing offical would show up until at least then.

My guess is since we have seen no reports, may be that no one active here went…and since these are resort specific, you could only attend your home resort.

Since the info I have gotten via my calls to Ms recently seem to be that this is not a policy change, Id speculate that it didn’t get discussed unless an owner brought it up?

I have been checking for the March minutes as those were approved so DVC should be posting those on the website.

Oh wow, I was thinking there was only a 1 month delay for minutes being released

 

[Cyberc1978]

The top post in the rental forum has me cracking up. This is what y’all are defending.

edit to add....

Someone has 4300pts for rent.

Yeah that guy is lucky that DVC will only go after the large point owners not the little guys like him

 

[Mouseforward]

Maybe he had to cancel his month long bungalow when his cat died ….

 

[Sandisw]

Oh wow, I was thinking there was only a 1 month delay for minutes being released

They have to be approved officially before getting released.

That always happens at the next meeting.

 

[pkrieger2287]

I would bet the topic never came up at the meetings... The new quarterly meetings are very poorly attended, and I also think we forget that our small corner of the "informed" member community still makes up probably less than 5% of total ownership. Most people aren't even thinking about this.

PS - As mentioned previously, I was on a boat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and couldn't attend.

PPS - I'm in Indiana this week, so I fully expect some type of something to be announced. 50/50 on whether its a new Dole Whip or concept art for Lakeshore Lodge.

 

[xdan0920]

Seems to me that everyone here has said large point owners renting a lot of points that clearly seem like a business are the ones DVC should be looking at.

Silly question, I’m sure. But why is it allowed here?

 

[VGCgroupie]

I would bet the topic never came up at the meetings... The new quarterly meetings are very poorly attended, and I also think we forget that our small corner of the "informed" member community still makes up probably less than 5% of total ownership. Most people aren't even thinking about this.

PS - As mentioned previously, I was on a boat in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and couldn't attend.

PPS - I'm in Indiana this week, so I fully expect some type of something to be announced. 50/50 on whether its a new Dole Whip or concept art for Lakeshore Lodge.

Makes sense that they aren't as big of a deal that they used to be now that they are more often.

Have a great time! Cant wait to see what exciting news drops while you are on vacay!

 

[IMMkXLVI]

Silly question, I’m sure. But why is it allowed here?

Because the forum owners aren't the DVC police?

Just a guess.

 

[muppets3d]

Silly question, I’m sure. But why is it allowed here?

Since DVC doesn't have a limit of what constitutes commercial renting, why should this forum invent one? It's not their job.

I'm sure if DVC came out with an actual policy then this forum and others would follow it when advertising rentals.

 

[xdan0920]

So, we all agree it's technically against the rules, but since they haven't been caught/punished, it's all good. Got it.

 

[muppets3d]

So, we all agree it's technically against the rules, but since they haven't been caught/punished, it's all good. Got it.

If it was up to me, the DVC rental industry would completely collapse. I believe that DVC is intended for members to use their points to book vacations for themselves and their family. Rentals should be extraordinarily rare, so rare in fact that it wouldn't be worth to have a rentals board on here. But it's not up to me.

And yes, since DVC is not upholding their contract (a contract that they wrote!) by enforcing their provisions against commercial renting, why should anyone else?

 

[lowlight]

Because the forum owners aren't the DVC police?

Just a guess.

I’ve got to say, I'm very impressed with your rapid transformation from “I just purchased and have no idea what’s going on, I just rent from time to time” to a well informed and strongly opinionated owner.

 

[Sandisw]

Silly question, I’m sure. But why is it allowed here?

Because the owners of the site allow people to advertise and this site is not sponsored or connected with DVC.

Only DVC has access to an owners specific membership data and it’s only DVC who makes the determination of who is violating their contracts.

So, someone offering that level of points certainly appears to be doing it at a level most of us would say DVC should review.

But, again, only DVC gets to decide what actions tip the scale and until they tell a specific owner they are in violation, they are not in violation of the contract, regardless of what someone’s opinion is about it.

As has been mentioned, the 2008 policy which is the last written policy DVC provided and never officially said is no longer used, allows for up to 20 reservations per membership before a review is triggered.

So, we have no idea how those points are owned, how many memberships it involves, etc. and that does make a difference in how the commercial purpose clause can be enforced by DVC.

If these types of situations continue, then it says to me, as an owner. that DVC has reviewed those memberships and found they aren’t doing things that DVC considers them to be in violation of the commercial purpose clause.