DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss.

[Sandisw]

If they try to curb rentals swapping with third parties going towards cruises, they would likely also be trying to increase the number of people who trade their points for the cruises directly through Disney. But recent resale buyers can't directly trade for cruises anymore so there really isn't a way for Disney to stop resale members from doing it. If they tried to curb it whatever they would do would likely affect direct members or grandfathered resale members as they are the ones who can actually trade for the cruises directly from Disney

What someone does with their points isn’t really relevant though

It’s all about whether the rental activity one is doing rises to the level DVC sees using membership as a commercial enterprise.

Having said that, my guess is that any owner renting to cover the cost of a cruise isn’t likely renting at levels that shift them into the commercial use bucket.

 

[Sandisw]

Yeah, how many pages was the nothing-burger thread about the CFW Trust that was supposed to completely transform DVC?

To be fair, no other new resort has come online yet. We have to wait to see what happens with LSL to know if this was a one time thing or the way forward.

 

[Tatebeck]

What someone does with their points isn’t really relevant thiugh.

It’s all about whether the rental activity one is doing rises to the level DVC sees using membership as a commercial enterprise.

Having said that, my guess is that any owner renting to cover the cost of a cruise isn’t likely renting at levels that shift them into the commercial use bucket.

Right, which is why I said that I don't think they would do anything to try and curb it. It's too messy and isn't really what they are trying to stop.

My first post saying how messy it would be was after someone else was saying why they didn't think they would/go after cruises as that seems like personal use to most members. I was just adding another reason why they wouldn't try to go after cruisers, whether direct swappers or third party swappers

 

[Sandisw]

Right, which is why I said that I don't think they would do anything to try and curb it. It's too messy and isn't really what they are trying to stop.

My first post saying how messy it would be was after someone else was saying why they didn't think they would/go after cruises as that seems like personal use to most members. I was just adding another reason why they wouldn't try to go after cruisers, whether direct swappers or third party swappers

And this just supports some of the confusion…as DVCs responsibilities are only to identify owners and enforce the rules based on the level of renting they are doing crossing the threshold from acceptable and not acceptable.

They can’t use the rental market as a whole and make rules based on that…only what an individual owner is doing.

 

[supersnoop]

If DVC comes out tomorrow and says the 20 rule policy a still in play, then that’s what owners will be allowed to do.

I’ve never actually seen the “20 reservations” policy in writing. Is that something that the CM’s told people over the phone? Did they send a letter? It seems like it was enacted before social media.

 

[Sandisw]

I’ve never actually seen the “20 reservations” policy in writing. Is that something that the CM’s told people over the phone? Did they send a letter? It seems like it was enacted before social media.

It was published in 2008 and was the last published policy we have. A link is posted in this thread.

And yes. CMs advised people of it, and those who did receive letters for going over were reminded that they were allowed 20 in a rolling 12 month period.

Once online began, they flagged people’s account for review. If you could show none were rentals they would allow you to exceed 20..if not, your cap stayed at 20.

They have never officially said one way or another if it’s still used for enforcement and you need to request the official policy based on the POS of many resorts…I’m still waiting.

The thing about that policy is it was written to be applied per membership, and that is what contributed to owners creating multiple memberships in different names and LLCs to get around it.

My opinion here…based on the statements last year, I wonder if what they working on is finding a way to enforce things against an owner using data from any of the memberships they are associated with and possibly one reason we have seen nothing reported yet…or, those who did won’t be sharing either?

 

[Cyberc1978]

My opinion here…based on the statements last year, I wonder if what they working on is finding a way to enforce things against an owner using data from any of the memberships they are associated with and possibly one reason we have seen nothing reported yet…or, those who did won’t be sharing either?

Well if that’s the case then maybe the 20 reservations rule is still in play but what have changed could be that it’s across any and all memberships you own.
But a workaround to that wouldn’t that just be to create a LLC with yourself as owner and use a employees name as principal on each contract. That way you own the LLC but your employee is owner or principal of the contract.

Full disclosure I don’t know how an LLC work or how it works with DVC ownerships but I could imagine the creative folks owning 10,000’s of points would find a workaround using only 1 name on contracts until you own xx numbers of points which would equal 20 reservations or less and then for the next membership add a new name to the contracts.

 

[Mouseforward]

It was published in 2008 and was the last published policy we have. A link is posted in this thread.

And yes. CMs advised people of it, and those who did receive letters for going over were reminded that they were allowed 20 in a rolling 12 month period.

Once online began, they flagged people’s account for review. If you could show none were rentals they would allow you to exceed 20..if not, your cap stayed at 20.

They have never officially said one way or another if it’s still used for enforcement and you need to request the official policy based on the POS of many resorts…I’m still waiting.

The thing about that policy is it was written to be applied per membership, and that is what contributed to owners creating multiple memberships in different names and LLCs to get around it.

My opinion here…based on the statements last year, I wonder if what they working on is finding a way to enforce things against an owner using data from any of the memberships they are associated with and possibly one reason we have seen nothing reported yet…or, those who did won’t be sharing either?

As this would fall under Rules - Per condo law in Florida (Statute 718.111(12) ) they have what is generally accepted to be 10 business days to provide the requested documentation.

"The failure of an association to provide the records within 10 working days after receipt of a written request creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this paragraph"

May want to remind them of that

 

[Sandisw]

As this would fall under Rules - Per condo law in Florida (Statute 718.111(12) ) they have what is generally accepted to be 10 business days to provide the requested documentation.

"The failure of an association to provide the records within 10 working days after receipt of a written request creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this paragraph"

May want to remind them of that

Thank you for this! Guess my certified letter is going this week..I was giving them until July 1st but now don’t need to wait.

 

[zavandor]

Woah, I did it! I managed to read the whole thread! As someone said, if you can dream it you can do it.

I do rent my points when I don't use them. Over the years I've rented slightly less than half my points to cover almost all my dues. Sometimes I rent zero, sometimes I rent them all, but often something in the middle.
I only rent using the rental board here and I own SSR points, so I always rent something within the 7 months window, i.e. rooms not in high demand. Since I don't own a lot of points, the highest number of reservations I've rented in one year is 3, I've not took a tally, but I think I might average one reservation a year or so. I have never booked a spec rental (silly me!).
This is just to declare my "conflict of interest".

This is what I believe, having read all the 7 gazzilion posts:

• Until last year I didn't believe renting was harming the system. I had never seen the brokers' websites or the Facebook groups. But people reporting multiple reservations for the same night at nearly impossible to get categories changed my mind. It's clear commercial renting should be stopped and I'm glad DVC is going for it (allegedly)
• I cannot be defined a commercial renter and I am not afraid to continue to rent the points I don't use in the same way in the future
• I think BrianNoble should have had the last word 80 pages ago. What is most likely to happen is similar to what happened for other timeshares, especially as DVC went into the direction of conforming to industry standards. They also had recently a job posting to recruit someone with experience from he market. So I think they'll go after the uber commercial renters, cancel some of their reservations and let chaos break loose on social media, severely curbing demand.

In all the years I have been a member since the 1990s, I have not witnessed the DVC entities purposefully doing acts as to existing members designed to help make the Disney hotel side of the business make more money.

Can I remind you the 2020 point charts, when they increased the lockoff premium, that would have caused the breakage inventory to increase, earning Disney tens of millions in additional revenue a year?

 

[Sandisw]

Woah, I did it! I managed to read the whole thread! As someone said, if you can dream it you can do it.

I do rent my points when I don't use them. Over the years I've rented slightly less than half my points to cover almost all my dues. Sometimes I rent zero, sometimes I rent them all, but often something in the middle.
I only rent using the rental board here and I own SSR points, so I always rent something within the 7 months window, i.e. rooms not in high demand. Since I don't own a lot of points, the highest number of reservations I've rented in one year is 3, I've not took a tally, but I think I might average one reservation a year or so. I have never booked a spec rental (silly me!).
This is just to declare my "conflict of interest".

This is what I believe, having read all the 7 gazzilion posts:

• Until last year I didn't believe renting was harming the system. I had never seen the brokers' websites or the Facebook groups. But people reporting multiple reservations for the same night at nearly impossible to get categories changed my mind. It's clear commercial renting should be stopped and I'm glad DVC is going for it (allegedly)
• I cannot be defined a commercial renter and I am not afraid to continue to rent the points I don't use in the same way in the future
• I think BrianNoble should have had the last word 80 pages ago. What is most likely to happen is similar to what happened for other timeshares, especially as DVC went into the direction of conforming to industry standards. They also had recently a job posting to recruit someone with experience from he market. So I think they'll go after the uber commercial renters, cancel some of their reservations and let chaos break loose on social media, severely curbing demand.

Can I remind you the 2020 point charts, when they increased the lockoff premium, that would have caused the breakage inventory to increase, earning Disney tens of millions in additional revenue?

That decision though would have increased breakage income for DVC…not as a way to help the hotel division sell their inventory.

I interpreted the quote by drusba to mean that.

 

[JackosinDIS]

Thank you for this! Guess my certified letter is going this week..I was giving them until July 1st but now don’t need to wait.

It also says you are entitled to damages of $50 per day starting on the 11th day after the written request! You may be able to buy another contract at that rate!

 

[Sandisw]

It also says you are entitled to damages of $50 per day starting on the 11th day after the written request! You may be able to buy another contract at that rate!

Wow! Guess I’d have a nice amount do if emails count!! lol

But, the certified letter will go this week…and now I can include this reminder!

Hopefully it means I have something by mid July!!