DVC T &C Personal Use - Only Thread to Discuss!

[Sandisw]

How does Disney know I am gifting the points vs renting the points for $$?
How does Disney know they are my family vs complete strangers?
I haven't seen Disney clarify what personal use is. (Which in my opinion is key here since they are the ones who will be making decisions and enforcing policy).

I don't know the percentage of points that we gift in a year. (That might be interesting to go back and check ) But, what if more than 50% of the reservations we make are for family members? (Frankly--that day may be coming as DH and I get older and less able to make trips to WDW and DL). Will Disney have some sort of formula where they start canceling reservations?

Here what is likely to happen….if they feel that your membership might be being used outside the rules, they will contact you.

They are not going to give specifics outside of what has already been written. So, as an owner, you do what you need to do and don’t worry. If you know they are for family and friends, then I don’t think you have to be concerned.

They want to target the big time owners who are clearly turned DVC memberships into a business.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Does Wyndham and Marriott do this? S

Yes, Wyndham did this. Megarenters first got a “knock it off” letter. If they continued, then they got their accounts suspended for a period of time (couldn’t make reservations and existing reservations were cancelled).

 

[lions1995]

One of the big rental Facebook groups just paused new listings based on this info and is encouraging owners to reach out to lawyers over the new terms

Disney is already expecting lawsuits if you read the terms and conditions. I have mixed feelings. Certainly the rental business has become very large and affects ability to make reservations. That’s said, I have rented my points out in the past as well as rented points. Sometimes we go elsewhere and simply have points that are not going to be used.

If Disney gave a better cost to points for cruises, I would never have left over points.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

@Sandisw, I know it’s early days still, but is Disboards going to make any changes to the Rules/T&C’s of the rental board here? Seems like that might be prudent…

 

[VGCgroupie]

Reading various posts / threads on various platforms. Here are some things I have seen said by others in various places

• Several people including now Sandi have confirmed you can still change the lead guest and will continue to be able to do so
• MS has told someone that they have implemented a digital tracking system to determine if a member has a certain % of reservations that are not in the owners name and then it will get manually reviewed by a person
• Members have suggested they will just leave themselves as the lead guest to avoid being flagged as a rental
• Another report of a DVC higher up confirming a tracking system has been established
• Dvc Rental Store has and has had its own limit on how often they will be the intermediary for a member as to stick with the non commercial aspect of the contract (to be honest if you are renting commercially you wouldn't use a broker because that eats profit)

 

[Cyberc1978]

How does Disney know I am gifting the points vs renting the points for $$?
How does Disney know they are my family vs complete strangers?
I haven't seen Disney clarify what personal use is. (Which in my opinion is key here since they are the ones who will be making decisions and enforcing policy).

I don't know the percentage of points that we gift in a year. (That might be interesting to go back and check ) But, what if more than 50% of the reservations we make are for family members? (Frankly--that day may be coming as DH and I get older and less able to make trips to WDW and DL). Will Disney have some sort of formula where they start canceling reservations?

I think that’s a good question.
If Disney can see that you are advertising it, then clearly you are renting it. If you aren’t I don’t know how they can decide - except whatever they decide is what goes - but still I don’t believe that’s how it will go down.

I don’t believe what you are doing is the target at alll. There is a robust commercial industry that has formed and they are going after them.

The point brokers/renters would be an obvious target as they own thousands of points, but others I don’t know.

 

[mfortis]

Disney is already expecting lawsuits if you read the terms and conditions. I have mixed feelings. Certainly the rental business has become very large and affects ability to make reservations. That’s said, I have rented my points out in the past as well as rented points. Sometimes we go elsewhere and simply have points that are not going to be used.

Especially, when the rules they create don't apply to them. They rent points commercially every day. They are probably the ones hoarding all the high demand rooms.

 

[Girlstar30]

Just to clarify one point…checking the box that says it’s for personal use does not mean you are saying it’s not a rental.

You are saying that it falls within your right to make a reservation under the personal use aspect of the contract.

For example, if I am making a rental and check that box and it’s my only rental that year, I am still going to be fine.

If I am an owner who is now making my 15th reservation in the names of others, and it’s been happening yearly, and still checking that box, then I’ve given DVC evidence that they could say doesn’t mesh with those terms as it clearly seems I’m doing reservations frequently and regularly.

Why do you think that they didn’t have us attest it’s “not a rental”? Because renting reservations is allowed….just not so many that it’s clear you have a different motive for owning.

My guess is no. I think that any reservations booked prior to June 1st, when this new language was there will be given grace by DVC in terms of cancels.

Not saying they might not contact an owner and let them know there membership is "flagged", but I don't think that DVC wants to ruin what has already happened, when, in part, it was on DVC to make the rules clear prior to this new language.

Thank goodness, I have a vdh rental reservation for my birthday that I do not want to get cancelled.

I was thinking this already but I am going to stick to purchasing otup from Disney when I need a reservation i cant normally get rather than the rental market. More flexibility, control, cheaper and cant be cancelled.

Im sure the rules will change again tho and this option may not be available in the future

 

[VGCgroupie]

Especially, when the rules they create don't apply to them. They rent points commercially every day. They are probably the ones hoarding all the high demand rooms.

No they aren't. I see high demand rooms listed for rent on social media every single day. There is also a website with very high demand rooms, hundreds of of them

 

[ckb_nc]

We enjoyed a resort day on Saturday here at Poly on March 16. I know Poly is often referred to at BUSY. However, spring break Saturday is a WHOLE PARTY The kids were partying. The adults were partying. The vibes were FUN. We sat at the main pool for hours and had a great time. Later we came back out to have dinner and again sat at the pool to eat. 30 kids were having a dance party on the green before the movie started. It was packed at all food locations. Many people were gathered at the beach for fireworks.
Now I normally prefer quieter resorts, but I sure am enjoying the Poly. I’m glad I have this opportunity to spend time here before the new tower opens.

If you rent points 5 or 6 times at irregular intervals over your lifetime, being a renter will make you look like a genius.

If you take 5 or 6 trips on rented points before deciding to buy--or continue visiting regularly while never buying--you'll probably feel like an idiot if you ever add up what you spent which could have gone toward the purchase.

For me, the decision to buy was 99% financial. When planning ahead and having reasonable expectations, I've never been disappointed in the resort options available to book at 11 or 7 months. (Really this is true of renting as well--not going to get a Beach Club studio at 3 months unless the rate is far higher than standard.)

I don’t believe they can….if you read the document it mentions that if someone is found in violation, reservations get canceled and points returned.

So, I think that is a clue that is what will happen. My prediction…this will be enough for those who have bought a lot of points and rent a lot of them to think twice….and that those who are brokers who have been pushing the limits with LLCs, transfer etc will be closely monitored by DVC.

I think we will see fewer confirmed reservations being advertised and brokers sending them via emails to potential renters.

I think DVC is going to take the same approach as always for owners who don’t scream it’s a business making scheme.

I remember sitting next a guy at the OKW pool bar who owned over a 1000 points - the math on dues was unreal and he admitted owning some for just rental. This is targeting bots for sure; the casual owner who wakes up and wants to get a few days is getting crowded out. But there will be lawyers.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

@Sandisw, I know it’s early days still, but is Disboards going to make any changes to the Rules/T&C’s of the rental board here? Seems like that might be prudent…

Checking in on the rental forum, there are currently multiple threads where owners have thousands of points for rent and may be in the “Danger Will Robinson” zone for their rentals:

1. An owner renting 4,300 points:
2. An owner renting 3,100 points:
3. An owner renting 2,000 points:
4. An owner renting 1850 points.

And that’s just on the first page.

 

[Sandisw]

Disney is already expecting lawsuits if you read the terms and conditions. I have mixed feelings. Certainly the rental business has become very large and affects ability to make reservations. That’s said, I have rented my points out in the past as well as rented points. Sometimes we go elsewhere and simply have points that are not going to be used.

If Disney gave a better cost to points for cruises, I would never have left over points.

I am hoping that we might see better cruise point charts!!

The eliminated the $95 trade fee for those with MMB so maybe they will work a deal for this!!!

In terms of lawsuits? I see nothing here that is in conflict with the terms of the contract.

It’s always said personal use and not commercial use. And it’s always given DVC discretion to define it.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Members have suggested they will just leave themselves as the lead guest to avoid being flagged as a rental

That is incredibly dangerous for everyone involved. Disney should legit be locking down/suspending any members they find doing this.

 

[Sandisw]

Especially, when the rules they create don't apply to them. They rent points commercially every day. They are probably the ones hoarding all the high demand rooms.

The rules for DVC to use their own points for cash rentals are different than the owners.

Especially since many of the rooms you see are for trades and rooms that didn’t get booked by owners and it creates the breakage income.

 

[Girlstar30]

I am trying to think of the supply/demand impacts:

1. The mega-renters will probably dump their contracts, flooding the resale market with supply and making values go down.
2. The casual renters will probably get better money when renting their points, as they would no longer be competing with the mega-renters.
3. The customers booking rentals will probably have to pay more due to Point #2. Maybe some of them will buy into DVC which may partially offset Point #1?

In my simplistic view, wait for resale prices to go down, buy a contract, and start renting out your points "casually".

Wouldn't this be worse for Disney if resale has even more attractive pricing?

 

[VGCgroupie]

Checking in on the rental forum, there are currently multiple threads where owners have thousands of points for rent and may be in the “Danger Will Robinson” zone for their rentals:

1. An owner renting 4,300 points:
2. An owner renting 3,100 points:
3. An owner renting 2,000 points:
4. An owner renting 1850 points.

And that’s just on the first page.

Just replying to love this phrase of your comment

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

In terms of lawsuits? I see nothing here that is in conflict with the terms of the contract.

There will be no lawsuits. People like to threaten lawsuits. Nobody is coughing up the money for a lawyer to file one to fight Disney, and no lawyer is taking this on contingency. Disney is not paving a new road here.

 

[Sandisw]

That is incredibly dangerous for everyone involved. Disney should legit be locking down/suspending any members they find doing this.

Except we are allowed to make as many reservations as we want so not sure how they are going to decide which is real and which is not.

And, I just don’t see why DVC would put themselves into that position.

 

[Sandisw]

@Sandisw, I know it’s early days still, but is Disboards going to make any changes to the Rules/T&C’s of the rental board here? Seems like that might be prudent…

I am not involved in the R and T board at all. @CarolMN and @Chuck S are the ones who moderate it.

But, it would be up to the boards admins to make any changes.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

Except we are allowed to make as many reservations as we want so not sure how they are going to decide which is real and which is not.

And, I just don’t see why DVC would put themselves into that position.

I was talking about people leaving themselves on reservations they are renting (meaning they are giving themselves access to that person’s room, etc.) I’m sure there’s a way to catch it, and it’s a terrible idea.