DVC Response About Ebay Commercial Sellers

[TCPluto]

if you read between the lines, you can pick out the big renters from the casual renters from the non-renters.

Only if your crystal ball is working.

And if you think that DVC is unaware of these and every other Ebay listing, you're not giving them enough credit.

If they truly perceive these rentals as an issue, I'm confident they have them all tracked, on everyone one of the popular timeshare rental websites.

 

[LisaS]

The people on Ebay do not necessarily have pre-booked weeks either. Yes for one or two out there, but definetly not all of them. I think you make a big assumption and blame those few people on Ebay for availability problems at DVC.

My point was...I do not see that these people are obviously running a business. A person with a web site obviously is and that is clearly a business.

If someone has excess points one year because an illness or new baby or whatever has prevented them from going to WDW that year and he/she chooses to rent those points on ebay rather than here on the R/T board, I don't see a problem with that. But if they purposely bought too many points so that they would have points to rent every year, and/or if they were having cheap points transferred to them on the R/T board to resell at a higher price/point, then they are in business, whether they have a separate website or make all their sales through ebay.

For example, the listings that Jay referred to (the seller on those listings is "smw" if you want to look them up) are not pre-booked reservations. But based on how many listings the person has and the amount of Disney vacation related feedback they have, they seem to have a LOT of points at their disposal. I would call that running a business. And while the seller does also have a website, it seems to be just for vacation homes in the Orlando area and they do not list their DVC business on that site.

 

[TCPluto]

Doubtful on the big renters as they don't post otherwise as a rule.

Exactly. The three biggest commercial renters that would be easily identifiable to most everyone, never post on anything but the rent/trade board, equal posts buying up distressed points and selling choice time periods at a huge premium.

 

[keys2kingdom]

Don't you think this web site is really a business and much more of a problem?

http://www.dvcrequest.com

This joker even links back to the DIS for his point chart!! Nice!!

I'm also digging the sidebar section to "Sell Points". Lovely.

Sounds like "David" needs a swift kick in the pants.

 

[jimh13432]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mushpurple]

Maybe some people hold aside a lot of weeks, but not everyone.

 

[keys2kingdom]

Well, read through all of this one and it is pretty obvious abuse--and lots of incorrect information (perks wher ethe blue card is needed) as well as that the renter can contact MS. Only bothers me becasue people who own at BCV were most likely closed out of a reservation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Disney-Beach-Cl...oryZ3257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I've been watching a few of this person's auctions and I've got to say that they really irk me as a BCV owner. One of the other auctions stated that they had multiple other times Sept-Dec and that 'if you don't see the dates you want, email me and I'll set up an auction'. I could be jumping to conclusions but I'm guessing a lot of 'morphed' points are involved here. This person seems to have an awful lot of BCV auctions.

 

[keys2kingdom]

I just checked E-Bay, and here's what I found, without even much of a search:

Wilderness Lodge - 3 listings. 1 was by smw, and didn't have any dates assigned to it. 1 was by boardwalkmagic, for an October reservation. Both of these sellers had lots of comments about previous DVC trips that had been sold. The 3rd one was for a "sold out" holiday reservation in December. However, it doesn't appear that this seller has any previous comments about DVC trips.

Old Key West - 3 listings. 1 was by vacation4u, no specific dates. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by boardwalkmagic for a sold-out Halloween week.

Beach Club Villas - 2 listings. 1 was by smw, no specific dates. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" food & wine date, and a statement that there was an additional week available also.

Boardwalk - 6 listings. 1 was by disdvcer for a "sold-out" Halloween week, with comments that 2 other additional weeks were available. 1 by smw, for a standard view, no specific dates. 1 by smw, not standard view, no specific dates. 1 by boardwalkmagic for the 1st week of October. 1 by jidivine for a standard view in December. 1 by jidivine for another standard view with a different December week.

Saratoga Springs - 3 listings. 1 by boardwalkmagic for a "sold-out" New Years week. 1 by smw, no specific dates. 1 was for Labor Day week, but this seller doesn't have any comments about previous DVC trips that were purchased.


If a listing had been removed, it was probably because it was purchased, or the time had expired on it. I don't see any evidence of a crack down by Disney on the E-Bay listings.

Well, smw should be pretty easy for DVC to track down if they are so inclined. They made a mistake on one of their auctions by listing the 'item location' as Lindenhurst NY and if you look at their feedback one of their 'clients' actually mentions them by name!!

Quote: "The Weschler's are amazing and helped us so much with trip."

Guess we know what the "w" in smw stands for!

 

[3DisneyKids]

Maybe this SMW person owns a lot of points? I do not think that that is necessarily a business. It is very easy for us to judge, but I read their ad and they specifically reference not being a business. It is also a fantastic, descriptive and honest well written Ebay post.

I noticed that there are any others who are on their selling a lot. I think a much bigger problem the many people who are just doing it on the disboards and other boards like it. There are many big players on here that I have noticed (even though someone referenced that there were none on here). They are not as a high profile as an Ebay ad, but that does not mean that they are not there.

I think availabilty would be a problem with or without the big players. Disney is getting busier and busier.

I can verify that the eBay person you referred to in this post IS in this for business. I know because I rented from her 2 years ago...before I was "in the know" and before I found the DIS. (Of course, now I am a member myself...LOL!)

In any case, I will say that she treated me well, upheld the arrangement, everything went off without a hitch, etc. I spoke with her many times on the phone before committing, and she repeatedly said "Don't worry...this is my business...I do this for a living." Mind you, this was back in early 2004--2.5 years ago.

And I still frequently go to eBay and search for DVC rentals (before we became members and even after...just to see what people were charging), and every single time I have done this over the past 2+ years she has had something advertised. It's renting for profit, without a doubt.

 

[rinkwide]

...I think availabilty would be a problem with or without the big players. Disney is getting busier and busier.

How dare you insinuate that this anti-renting crack-down is merely a distractive measure undertaken by Disney to take the heat off of itself for overselling DVC via their latest resort. Why that's...that's just...well, uh... That is what you meant, right?

 

[Pootle]

... I am offended by the abuse you have taken in this thread. I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same as I do...

Yep, I share this sentiment. Thanks Jay

 

[mushpurple]

They are more likely to be out spending money and spend more time at the parks. A DVC member who has been there year after year is more likely to take a day or two just to relax. You will spend less that way and that is not a goal of any business.

 

[Deb & Bill]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

 

[TCPluto]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

I understood what you meant, I'm just saying it's a leap in all instances as you suggest.

 

[minnie61650]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

Very interesting indeed.

 

[Chuck S]

Did you buy DVC because you rented from smw and then liked it? Then DVC gained a customer and this was a great way for you to try it out. THis is a benefit that is gained by renting time out.

I was thinking about this and watch this Scenario.

Someone owns a lot of points so and they rent them out. Therefore you all say how that hurts you...

Does it really? What difference wold it be if 50 other people own the same time that that person owns. The same # of people go to Disney, the same amount of dues is collected and the DVC members all go. That wold make most of you happy and you would say that that is fine. The same number of people would not be paying Disney in regular reservations.

Here is the arguement:

If new people go because they rented from someone (commercial or not):

They are more likely to buy DVC from Disney (A DVC goal)

They are less likely to be passholders and buy tickets (and if Disney is luckly they will buy at the gate). DVC members are more likely to be passholders or have some strategy down about ticket use.

They are more likely to buy Souveniers (since those who go often may not feel the need).

A DVC member who is there every year may be more likely to spend time at the resort not spending as much money (since they have gone so often).


They are more likely to be out spending money and spend more time at the parks. A DVC member who has been there year after year is more likely to take a day or two just to relax. You will spend less that way and that is not a goal of any business.

I thnk Disney has oversold Saratoga and has give away many more points in their incentives that can be used right away and that has greatly caused the problems with availability. A year and half 2 years ago availability was not a problem. Saratoga's introduction and subsequent selling has created an availability crunch. They were giving people points that they could use right away for a while since their buildings were not yet built in order to get people to buy it. In addition, most Saratoga owners are willing to stay there, but they would prefer to stay and Boardwalk, Beach Club or Wilderness Lodge.

The big players and the morphing of points was there also. I do not believe there is any balance to point use and that they are arbitrary at best. If you think about the jockeying around that can be done for this use and that....let alone borrowing and banking , by definition it is not balanced.

I know many of you may not agree with me in some or all aspects, but I thought about this last night and I think it makes a lot of sense. This is not like someone illegally renting a house and draining on community resources. Disney collects the same money either way only the get more people who might not have gone and they get more potential customers.

Here's a problem with your whole "They are more likely to buy." scenario. If Disney routinely rented points for $10 to $12, even current owners would find it hard to justify their initial purcjase, and would simply rent weekdays at DVC from Disney and stay off-site or at a regular resort on weekends...no one would see any value to owning. If Disney renting at that price would be perceived as a severe devaluation to owning, why do some owners continue to defend commercial renting?

AS far as your claim to overselling through banking borrowing...again. not necessarily...Disney can restrict that right at anytime. And banking would create more availability in that year, so it would even out looking at the banking/borrowing over a multi-year period.

There are reports of resorts not having availability during the priority window, surely THAT has nothing to do with SSR, as theose owners can not book util 7 months, except through morphed points.

AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.

 

[Mike]

When I posted earlier about reading between the lines. Check out some of other posts for the posters on this thread. You see lots of rental activity and point buying activity. No wonder they feel threatened.

As the great Arthur Fonzarelli would say - exactamundo I was about to ask one poster in particular what his/her ebay id is.

AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.

Right on Chuck. I don't know why people can't seem to grasp this concept. From what I have been reading on the boards, I think the two biggest gripes that people have with the big renters are 1) the morphing of points and 2) the hoarding of prime weeks. If both of these things can be corrected/controlled by DVC then I think the uproar would subside.

 

[TCPluto]

the two biggest gripes that people have with the big renters are 1) the morphing of points and 2) the hoarding of prime weeks. If both of these things can be corrected/controlled by DVC then I think the uproar would subside.

Great observation and right on point.

 

[mushpurple]

Yes, I have rented on occasson.

 

[Oreo Cookie]

Here's a problem with your whole "They are more likely to buy." scenario. If Disney routinely rented points for $10 to $12, even current owners would find it hard to justify their initial purcjase, and would simply rent weekdays at DVC from Disney and stay off-site or at a regular resort on weekends...no one would see any value to owning. If Disney renting at that price would be perceived as a severe devaluation to owning, why do some owners continue to defend commercial renting?

AS far as your claim to overselling through banking borrowing...again. not necessarily...Disney can restrict that right at anytime. And banking would create more availability in that year, so it would even out looking at the banking/borrowing over a multi-year period.

There are reports of resorts not having availability during the priority window, surely THAT has nothing to do with SSR, as theose owners can not book util 7 months, except through morphed points.

AS far as "what difference" if a large commerciual renters points were spread out to 50 or more members...well, if a commecial renter calls right at the 11 month window and books 40 studios in the same call during a premier week...it sure drops the odds for other members, whereas those other 50 members likely wouldn't be wanting the same week all at once.

I agree with you. This is the problem with commercial renters, and I'm all for Disney trying to address the commercial renter. I have no problems with the DVCer who rents occasionally.

I don't know if the original OP had the listing pulled from Ebay or not, but there are still listings there for DVC property. I do think he took a beating for posting.

If commerical renting bothers you, then I think you have every right to bring it to Disney's attention and if enough people complain maybe things will change. I don't support the commercial renters, and from posts on this board you can definately get a good handle on who is a commercial renter.

Just my .02!!