Dvc cruising: No way

[TLSnell1981]

I just wonder if the people who are so against using your points to cruise have figured out what the actual cost would be with the benefits you receive on the cruise.

The food and activities are included....whether you pay cash or use points. If you sold your points and used the cash to pay for the cruise, you'd use a lot fewer points.

 

[pilferk]

I just wonder if the people who are so against using your points to cruise have figured out what the actual cost would be with the benefits you receive on the cruise.

Since the cruises are pretty much all inclusive (booze, a night at Palo's, and excursions being the exceptions),
for me, this is how I make the comparison:

Cash price to cruise

vs

Number of points needed to cruise

vs

Amount of relative value (which will vary) of our points.

My relative value would change based on how I use, or am willing to use, my points. If willing to rent, the $10 per point value is perfectly realistic.

If I'm not willing to rent, it's completely plausable to assign "yearly dues per point + point cost (broken down by year)". What that means to me is this:

Say you paid $96 per point for 50 years (you bought AKV at first offering) of points AND your annual dues for this year were 4.50 per point.

You might consider your effective value to be (96/50)+4.50 = $6.42 per point.

There is ONE other consideration in there, and CarolAnn mentions it. That is a sort of opportunity cost. If you have finite vacation time (and just about everyone does) and you have to CHOOSE to "use or lose" your points during that time...that is going to be a factor in deciding what route to take. Especially when you have LARGE amounts of points..the banking rules can still cause you fits in terms of getting use out of all your points before they "expire". We're not at the point where that's a consideration for our family, both in terms of points or limitation in vacation time. YET.

For my comparison, the relatively value of my points seems too high to justify using them to cruise. I can get much better value for my money by paying out of pocket and either using my points at WDW OR renting them out, pocketing the cash, and using it to offset cruise costs. Your mileage may vary.

 

[LIFERBABE]

I rent points often. I have repeat renters so I dont have to solicit very often.

That said, I understand why people are adverse to renting and prefer to use points for their cruises. Renting is alot of work. You have to know enough about DVC and WDW to make your renter comfortable. Some renters you can never make comfortable no matter what you do. You can rent for $5 or $15 per point and the expectation of service is the same. You need to be available, accessible and transparent. You have to provide personal information to strangers and that is enough info for them to access public records about you and verify your identity using public records. You open yourself to tax issues by renting. (just because you dont pay them does not mean you dont have an issue)

Some renters think you are CRO and treat you like you work for Disney instead of an individual that is trying to rent out points so they can take their family on a cruise. You cant make a move unless you inform them you will be predisposed for a few days in case they try to contact you. You take someone's money and they own a piece of you until the rental is fulfilled. These are all the right things to do when renting, not complaining, just facts.

I see both sides and no side is right or wrong. Some people choose to donate stuff to charity and others choose to have a yard sale. Same difference. As I get busier with life, I can see me renting less but right now, I love helping others see the world.

One day, if I no longer have repeat renters contacting me, I may choose to forego the issues with renting to strangers and use my points for my family to cruise. $6-$8 is really not a bad return, considering all I have to do is pick up the phone and call MS. Many right now are renting for less than $10 on the RTB for a variety of reasons. My dues average less than $5 per point and rarely do I charge family to use our points so again different people with different values.

For those that choose to never use the cruise option for whatever reason, that is fine. But I like the fact that DVC offers a cruise option with points. Not many timeshares do and that is a benefit even if it is not perceived as a good value.

And over the long term, if you trade out occassionally, you will save money vacationing with DVC. Not as much as the family that went to WDW every trip on points, but maybe enough to meet your needs and satisfy you.

 

[Inkmahm]

Since the cruises are pretty much all inclusive (booze, a night at Palo's, and excursions being the exceptions),
for me, this is how I make the comparison:

Cash price to cruise

vs

Number of points needed to cruise

vs

Amount of relative value (which will vary) of our points.

My relative value would change based on how I use, or am willing to use, my points. If willing to rent, the $10 per point value is perfectly realistic.

If I'm not willing to rent, it's completely plausable to assign "yearly dues per point + point cost (broken down by year)". What that means to me is this:

Say you paid $96 per point for 50 years (you bought AKV at first offering) of points AND your annual dues for this year were 4.50 per point.

You might consider your effective value to be (96/50)+4.50 = $6.42 per point.

There is ONE other consideration in there, and CarolAnn mentions it. That is a sort of opportunity cost. If you have finite vacation time (and just about everyone does) and you have to CHOOSE to "use or lose" your points during that time...that is going to be a factor in deciding what route to take. Especially when you have LARGE amounts of points..the banking rules can still cause you fits in terms of getting use out of all your points before they "expire". We're not at the point where that's a consideration for our family, both in terms of points or limitation in vacation time. YET.

For my comparison, the relatively value of my points seems too high to justify using them to cruise. I can get much better value for my money by paying out of pocket and either using my points at WDW OR renting them out, pocketing the cash, and using it to offset cruise costs. Your mileage may vary.

Excellent explanation.

I'd add that the only option to getting cash for points is not renting. Transfers to other members are easy and get you off the hook from playing CRO to renters. Once the points are transfered they belong to the other member and you have no more liability for them at all. I don't rent, I only transfer to fellow members. I don't have the patience to rent to others.

 

[CarolAnnC]

doesn't appreciate in value?

Points do have a real value that is most easily represented in what they can be rented for, which appears to be $10 on the conservative side. From a simple value standpoint, a cruise is not the best use of points if its cash cost is less then the point value * $10per. If it's close, I can understand not wanting the hassle of renting points and using that money to pay for a cruise. But when there is a huge gap, I don't get it. Doesn't everyone buy into DVC with the thought that they are saving money in the long run vs. paying cash for each reservation?

I did not buy into DVC with the thought that I was saving money. I had never stayed in a Deluxe resort prior to that. Dixie Landings was the biggest splurge I had done (a moderate now Port Orleans..). I was looking for the whole DVC vacation experience, though.

Like I said my husband and I value our points at the MF's that we pay. Our choice, not everyone's obviously, LOL.

I just have to say something here. I see an intolerance on the part of some to understand or at least not argue someone else's view or opinion. I do not rent, but I am not opposed to renting out and would do so if I were in a financial bind for some reason. I just prefer not to do it when I don't have to..

But, we have a very active Rent/Trade Board here on the DIS, and I encourage anyone interested in doing so to definitely check it out. I certainly understand why someone would rent their points out and pay cash. And, hopefully, they understand why some people choose not to rent and just vacation using their points...

 

[crisi]

There is ONE other consideration in there, and CarolAnn mentions it. That is a sort of opportunity cost. If you have finite vacation time (and just about everyone does) and you have to CHOOSE to "use or lose" your points during that time...that is going to be a factor in deciding what route to take. Especially when you have LARGE amounts of points..the banking rules can still cause you fits in terms of getting use out of all your points before they "expire". We're not at the point where that's a consideration for our family, both in terms of points or limitation in vacation time. YET.

That opportunity cost works the other way too. We only have enough points to do WDW every other year - a good schedule for us. If we use our points to cruise or do an exchange of any other type, we are giving up our WDW vacation. So unless cruise on points were to be such a great deal that it makes booking a Disney hotel on cash attractive (or giving up our biannual Disney vacation completely), it isn't a good deal.

We have cash budgeted for other vacations, so paying the cash out of pocket isn't a hardship.

 

[Dean]

Ok yes I don;t mean to hijack this thread but why would stopping rentals also have an effect of eliminating cash exhange options.

Because it would likely also stop the cash rentals by DVC of member owned and declared inventory.

I just wonder if the people who are so against using your points to cruise have figured out what the actual cost would be with the benefits you receive on the cruise.

It actually means nothing because you get the same benefits cash vs points or even if you go with another cruise line you'll get approximately the same benefits if you go with a comparable company. I'm not saying don't use your points, just that you need to know what you are and are not getting and the risks and benefits of each option.

IMO, the decision and discussion is somewhat different for one looking to buy in vs on who already owns and has extra points. The best scenario of all is to buy just the number of points you need for DVC, with a small cushion in some cases. As I mentioned in a couple of other thread's recently, we're going to Cabo in the winter and this represents an extreme example of this type of issue. The points costs would be over 1800 or roughly $20,000 worth of DVC points. My total cost for the entire trip for the same accommodations is under $1K. For DCL, a 500 point cost at $7 a point (usually under this) would represent a $2500 difference compared to renting at $12 a point or $1500 at $10 a point. Not only are those significant cost differences in my book, they give you FAR more options and protection on the cruise side. They do give one some risk and aggravation on the rental side but, IMO, far less than those of using points for DCL. YMMV.

 

[Golden Rose]

I just want to say I'm enjoying reading both sides of this discussion, and I really do understand both perspectives. We love to cruise, but we have never been able to convince ourselves to try a Disney Cruise. (We love Royal Caribbean, and we've been on enough cruises to be reasonably high up in their repeat cruisers program that we do get some nice perks. That also makes it harder to try other lines! They're cheaper than DCL, they also have great kids' programs, and they often do routes departing from only an hour from our home.)

We've only been DVC members for a year, but I cannot imagine ever renting out our points. We're fairly private people, and I'm afraid we're just not comfortable revealing personal information to strangers, even the generally very nice and well-intentioned folk on these boards. In a pinch, I could potentially see doing a point transfer, as Inkmahn suggested. But you're limited to one a year, so it isn't a hugely versatile option...

That said, I suspect that the only way we're ever likely to try a Disney cruise is if we use points for some portion of it, or if DVC happens to be offering a Disney Cruise as an add-on incentive if/when we add on. As others have mentioned, we have a finite amount of vacation. We generally do two week long vacations a year, plus assorted long weekend trips. Before buying DVC, we usually did at least one cruise a year. We had double points this last year - developer points on our new contract and banked points on our resale contract - and so elected to do all our vacations this year at WDW instead of cruising. Next year, we're planning one cruise (cash, on Royal Carib) and one almost week long (and possibly a second shorter) DVC stay. Yes, we discussed doing a Disney cruise, but it came back down to price for the stay. A week in two or three balcony cabins, which is what our extended family will need, on Royal Carib is thousands less than the equivalent on DCL.

I'm sure Disney cruises are great, but not having done one, I haven't been able to justify spending the extra money. But the way I look at it, our points are a sunk cost, and using points for at least one person might bring our cash outlay for the cruise down to no more than we'd spend on another cruise line. Will we ever do it? I don't know. I'm certainly not ruling it out. I understand it would make more financial sense to just rent out the points and pay to go on the same cruise, but that adds in such a level of hassle and reduction of privacy that I just don't see it happening.

 

[acourtwdw]

Lump us in with the "insane" posse! We are using 666 points for the WBTA. It would cost us over 5k for the stateroom we want, so it made sense for us to use our points. This isn't the first time we have cruised on points- we've done the Member Cruise in 05, 06, 07 and 08 on points also. They are our points and we will use them how its fits our family best.

 

[orlando79]

FWIW, we've had some pretty good luck with points for cruises (I value the points at around $4 ea. out of pocket to $6 amortized). Last December a 3-day cruise took a total of 102 points and $75 cash for two adults, up front, for cat. 11. That's not too bad. We're going for a 4-nighter next Dec. spending 168 points plus $95 (I missed a better points deal and probably would have used cash if it were lying around). As I see it, you can come out ahead either way.

 

[tidefan]

This topic comes up from time to time. We found that when we took our cruise back in Jan 08 (7 night Eastern - 2 Adults and 1 Child) for 327 points, we didn't think that it was a bad use of points. I looked at the Cash price that we were quoted and divided that by 327 and I came out to about $8.40 per point, which I didn't think was too bad. Here is a previous post on the subject:

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=18837206&postcount=5

 

[jworkkul]

I have booked a DCL cruise in Feb 2010 w/points and find that this is the only way I would ever book a cruise w/DCL. I do not have any small children and am a very frequent flyer for Carnival cruise. So much so that I am a Platinum member. I added on points this year and so I asked my daughter (adult and married no children) if she would like to go on DCL this time around. I booked the two of us for 4 days on the Wonder with just a little over 268 pts total. Just last week I added another adult to my reservation and it took only 88 points more plus $95 for changing the reservation. I do live very close to the parks so going there is no problem for me. We usually stay at one of the DVC hotels on property in July (for my daughter's birthday).

The main reason I bought into DVC was because I do not have to put down cash to stay on property and I am not particular about which DVC resort we stay at. I have stayed at almost all resorts at WDW and find each one brings something different.

So, using my points to book DCL works for me. It doesn't take any big cash chunks out of my bank account and I can still book my yearly Carnival cruise. I get the best of two worlds.