DVC Contract Revoked Over Transfer

[bytheblood]

I have a question for all of you experts out there. I called MS to ask a basic question about doing a transfer and the MS CM got all wound up telling me that it goes against a DVC members contract to sell their points, transfer their points for money or rent them to somebody for a fee. She said that she could note that on my account if she wanted to and I could lose my contract over it.


If that is the case, that leaves me with questions:

• Was the CM correct or just trying to be Miss Disney Boss
• Why did my Tour Guide suggest to me buying some points from a friend instead of borrowing from another use year
• The DisBoards is a respectable and well-known site; if it was illegal, why would they allow it here?

 

[CarolAnnC]

It is against DVC's contract for a member to transfer points for monetary gain. You would be in violation for doing this..

 

[ToddyLu]

Okaaaaaay....yet it is done. So it is sorta like "don't ask, don't tell"?

 

[Kmango]

Okaaaaaay....yet it is done. So it is sorta like "don't ask, don't tell"?

Basically. Renting is also technically verboten, even though almost everyone does it and the guides will even tell you you can. If you elect to do so anyway, it's wise not to mention it to MS.

 

[Lynne M]

Renting is specifically mentioned in the contract as being permissible.

 

[RobDoc]

Renting is not "technically verboten" as it is expressly allowed and explained in the POS. Transfers are not supposed to be done for monetary exchange ... "7) Club Members are expressly prohibited from receiving compensation for engaging in any Transfer activity."

However, points are also described as having "no value". DVC will not become in any dispute involving a transfer - once completed, it is an irreversible transaction - and the statement above serves to reinforce that concept. While no compensation is to be received MS has no way to assertain that status unless the members involved disclose the details of the transaction.

If you have a MS rep who suggests that transfers or rentals are not allowed, I would ask to speak with their supervisor and demand clarification of the policy stated by the rep. I would certainly carry the issue higher if necessary unless and until DVC modifies the POS - and that is NOT likely to occur.

 

[CarolMN]

I have a question for all of you experts out there. I called MS to ask a basic question about doing a transfer and the MS CM got all wound up telling me that it goes against a DVC members contract to sell their points, transfer their points for money or rent them to somebody for a fee. She said that she could note that on my account if she wanted to and I could lose my contract over it........

I think the CM way over reacted and strongly doubt that she could arrange for you to lose your contract over a transfer. That said, it's best not to mention money when you ask about a transfer.

DVC processes thousands of transfers every year. They have to know the members aren't giving the points away. The language in the POS is there to protect Disney. They won't get involved if there is any dispute - you're on your own.

If DVC decided to take back contracts over this issue, they'd have to buy back tons of them. Doubt they could take them back without appropriately compensating the owners, either. Plus, they themselves are transferring points for money with their new "one-time" use policy.

If the occasion arises, I would transfer points out for $$ or pay $$ for a transfer and not worry about it one bit. But I won't be mentioning money to MS when I do it.

 

[bookwormde]

MS has no legal authority to take back a contract for a rules violation (other than for a reposession or judgement for non payment), It is a deeded property, they could try to restict reservations, but they are well aware that most transfers involve $ they just do not want to know about it so they are not "in the middle".

bookwormde

 

[bytheblood]

I think the CM way over reacted and strongly doubt that she could arrange for you to lose your contract over a transfer. That said, it's best not to mention money when you ask about a transfer.

DVC processes thousands of transfers every year. They have to know the members aren't giving the points away. The language in the POS is there to protect Disney. They won't get involved if there is any dispute - you're on your own.

If DVC decided to take back contracts over this issue, they'd have to buy back tons of them. Doubt they could take them back without appropriately compensating the owners, either. Plus, they themselves are transferring points for money with their new "one-time" use policy.

If the occasion arises, I would transfer points out for $$ or pay $$ for a transfer and not worry about it one bit. But I won't be mentioning money to MS when I do it.

I agree that she over-reacted. There was no mention of money on my part, just a question about the transfer. She just went crazy about it. Oh well, it is okay.....I am not going to worry about it.

 

[crisi]

MS has no legal authority to take back a contract for a rules violation (other than for a reposession or judgement for non payment), It is a deeded property, they could try to restict reservations, but they are well aware that most transfers involve $ they just do not want to know about it so they are not "in the middle".

bookwormde

As I read the POS, they do. The contract has the right for them to enforce the terms through "law or equity" - equity I'm reading as "they can terminate your contract."

That said, I doubt they would exercise that for a transfer for payment.

 

[bookwormde]

That just means that they can take it before a judge, for violation of contract terms, and no judge is going to award damages equal to the value of the contract.

bookwormde

 

[crisi]

That just means that they can take it before a judge, for violation of contract terms, and no judge is going to award damages equal to the value of the contract.

bookwormde

I'd guess it depends on what you did. I really doubt they'd enforce anything over transfers, but if you were sell drugs out of your DVC room or lure 10 year old children to your room, I'd think a judge might allow Disney to terminate the contract.

 

[rock_doctor]

If you can remember who you talked to you may want to report her. This is not a positive event for a member who calls member services. Besides if you can't move points for money then how can Disney let you purchase from them....one time use points when you run short????? You just got a bad CM. It happens.

 

[mfd25wife]

I called once when some friends decided they wanted to go with us. I was renting points to them. When I mentioned it while making their reservations, the CM laughed and said that technically, we aren't supposed to rent the points out. They would be our guests. I asked if I should call back and get a different CM just to not cause him or me any issues and he laughed and said no.

 

[drusba]

^^What you did is actually an allowed rental -- you made the reservation in the name of another using your points. The official documents prohibit the actual transfer of points in exchange for compensation but expressly allows your renting your real estate interest by making reservations in another's name which, no matter how it is phrased, actually involves no transfer of points from you to another.

 

[LouisianaDisneyFan]

Basically. Renting is also technically verboten, even though almost everyone does it and the guides will even tell you you can. If you elect to do so anyway, it's wise not to mention it to MS.

This is precisely why Disney guides are not allowed to conduct any business whatsoever via email. They can only give you information verbally. I also suspect if you informed them you were recording a conversation, they would not be able to speak with you. Our guide specifically put it this way to us during her salespitch... "Better to be a landlord than a renter, right? Buy more points than you need and rent out the rest." That's about as plain as you can get that she was endorsing the practice. (BTW, we did not take her advice...)

As for accepting payment for transfer, I think the possible change in attitude about this by Disney is because they are now renting extra points to existing members themselves. If members can easily arrange a transfer to their account for an upcoming big trip, then there is no motivation to (1) purchase an add-on to accommodate their needs, or (2) purchase the extra points they need directly from MS for $15/point. The problem here is that most members will not be willing or financially able to purchase an add-on for one special event that requires more points (like bringing your whole extended family for your anniversary celebration). As our children are grown and we have no grandchildren yet, there's no way we would have purchased enough points to allow ten people to travel EVERY year, but being able to get the points for just one visit allowed us to share DVC with them all... and ended up in at least one new purchase direct from Disney (by a relative) as a result.

Personally, I am very confused why Disney would want to hinder their BEST DVC salespeople (current members) from bringing along extended family and friends... which is specifically what the ability to acquire transferred points facilitates.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

This is precisely why Disney guides are not allowed to conduct any business whatsoever via email. They can only give you information verbally. I also suspect if you informed them you were recording a conversation, they would not be able to speak with you. Our guide specifically put it this way to us during her salespitch... "Better to be a landlord than a renter, right? Buy more points than you need and rent out the rest." That's about as plain as you can get that she was endorsing the practice. (BTW, we did not take her advice...)

Kmango as well as the CM that the OP spoke to were incorrect. Renting is allowed per the POS. Your guide was correct in what they told you.

Transfers for $$'s are what is not allowed - also per the POS. I agree that part doesn't make sense and considering that DVC now does that it could be a sticky point I would think if they decided to take action against another owner.

 

[Sammie]

Renting is allowed, and you are asked to let Member Services know that when you book.

 

[lbaier]

I concur with previous posts....don't ask, don't tell. That has been my policy.

 

[Dean]

Transfers for pay are not allowed though they do happen. I'm surprised DVC hasn't simply done away with them or changed the rule to allow such pay for transfers. Having it for years while allowing it to happen erodes the credibility, and thus the chances of enforcement, of the rule. Though I've rented points, I haven't done transfers in large part due to this rule.