Duggars make 17!

Those children are not getting a full education, I don't care what anyone says. They aren't learning science with labs, they aren't learning advanced mathemetics. I highly doubt Michelle is capable of teaching creative writing, and I'm sure they aren't reading the majority of the English or American literary classics due to "objectionable" content. They are getting the equivelent of a GED at best. They will never be able to get a decent score on the SAT's becaues they simply don't have the educational background to do so. That will greatly affect their career choice potential, as they will not be elegible for 95% of the colleges in this country without taking additional remedial college classes first. Anne

LOL, spent much time with Home Schoolers? My gf has one in MIT, and one heading to Wesley in the fall. Taught entirely by a gal with a GED and no more. Pure and simple. SIL's kids have their college degrees now, and have thriving personal businesses. (She got her B.S. in teaching after she finished homeschooling). 2 of a 100 possible examples I could give.

In other words, it isn't hard to set up a biology lab... Did they say they weren't teaching higher math?

The public schools students are the ones filling the remedial classes. HS SAT's are not lagging in the slightest.
 
but our society's embrace of one- and two-child families is serving to raise a generation of self-centered, demanding, immature people who have no clue about self-sacrifice or true service. I would be happy if my children could grow up to put their siblings, neighbors, and others' needs ahead of their own.


I find this very insulting. Size of a family does not determine whether someone is immature or self centered. I have 2 boys and at the moment they are very polite and well behaved, kind and compassionate. I can off the top of my head think of many only children who are spoiled brats and many "black sheep" from larger families.

I have watched I think most of these shows (except the one in DL< I saw them start the vacation with the trailer but either I missed the end or the next episode) and because there are so many kids most are not featured so taht you could have any idea about their tempermant. The only one I can recall who's personaitly is shown is the oldest.

Unlike other family shows like Little People Big World, or the special about the sextuplets, I feel I see each child's personality! Not that on the Duggars!
 
LOL, spent much time with Home Schoolers? My gf has one in MIT, and one heading to Wesley in the fall. Taught entirely by a gal with a GED and no more. Pure and simple. SIL's kids have their college degrees now, and have thriving personal businesses. (She got her B.S. in teaching after she finished homeschooling). 2 of a 100 possible examples I could give.

In other words, it isn't hard to set up a biology lab... Did they say they weren't teaching higher math?

The public schools students are the ones filling the remedial classes. HS SAT's are not lagging in the slightest.


I don't know how Ducklite feels about homeschoolers... I was one myself.. I homeschooled my kids for 5 years.. That's 20 years of combined homeschooling experience.. I think homeschooling is a wonderful thing..
I'm concerned, however about their homeschooling, because of what I know about their curriculum.. I may be completely off base on this one issue however, because I admit I do not know enough about their specifics.
Having issues with the Duggars(not the kids) does not = hating large families
Having issues with their homeschooling methods does not = hating homeschooling.
I am an advocate of homeschooling.
 
LOL, spent much time with Home Schoolers? My gf has one in MIT, and one heading to Wesley in the fall. Taught entirely by a gal with a GED and no more. Pure and simple. SIL's kids have their college degrees now, and have thriving personal businesses. (She got her B.S. in teaching after she finished homeschooling). 2 of a 100 possible examples I could give.

In other words, it isn't hard to set up a biology lab... Did they say they weren't teaching higher math?

The public schools students are the ones filling the remedial classes. HS SAT's are not lagging in the slightest.



My husband saw a lot of former homeschoolers as they entered a public highschool to finish their education. They were all behind and had to take extra classes, especially math, to graduate and get into college. They were all good kids, but they were coming from behind because their parents did not have the skills to teach higher math and science concepts. I'm sure some do, but the ones I knew could not but their primary reason for homeschooling was not because they thought they would get a better education, but because they wanted to shelter them from non-Christian people. Those are the ones we knew personally.

There are other things that schools can offer: clubs, bands, sports, student body elections, school plays, and (gasp) other children that are different from them. So many things kids can explore and expereince under one roof.

I am not against home shooling either, but one has to be extermely dedicated and know how to teach. It's not something you do after the laundry is sorted and the tater tots are in the oven
 

I don't know how Ducklite feels about homeschoolers... I was one myself.. I homeschooled my kids for 5 years.. That's 20 years of combined homeschooling experience.. I think homeschooling is a wonderful thing..
I'm concerned, however about their homeschooling, because of what I know about their curriculum.. I may be completely off base on this one issue however, because I admit I do not know enough about their specifics.
Having issues with the Duggars(not the kids) does not = hating large families
Having issues with their homeschooling methods does not = hating homeschooling.
I am an advocate of homeschooling.

Thanks Jenny. You seem to see the world with a great sense of common sense!:)

I don't know their curriculum. That was why I wondered about the math stuff.

The Duggars are characters, and I hope their kiddos do all right. Slamming big families isn't cool, and slamming HSers isn't either. I'll put in $.02 anytime I see someone appear to.

OT, have a great vacation...wish mine wasn't 6 months away!
 
LOL, spent much time with Home Schoolers? My gf has one in MIT, and one heading to Wesley in the fall. Taught entirely by a gal with a GED and no more. Pure and simple. SIL's kids have their college degrees now, and have thriving personal businesses. (She got her B.S. in teaching after she finished homeschooling). 2 of a 100 possible examples I could give.

In other words, it isn't hard to set up a biology lab... Did they say they weren't teaching higher math?

The public schools students are the ones filling the remedial classes. HS SAT's are not lagging in the slightest.

First of all, I was referring to the Duggar's, not all homeschoolers.

My sister homeschools. She has a Ph.D. and is a former teacher, now SAHM. My BIL has a masters in engineering and is a Six Sigma BlackBelt. Both are smart. Smart enough to realize that by the time their kids get to high school, they'll need to work something out because they aren't equipped to teach them advanced subjects. They are considering a swap with another HS family where the father is a chemist at a pharmacuetical company. My BIL will teach the math, the other father will teach the science, including lab work at his office/lab.

In the example you give, my guess is those children did have other activities outside of their narrow little world, and were taught using a curriculum other than the bible-study curriculum that the Duggars are using. As far as I can tell, the Duggar children are not getting any advanced math or science.

Anne
 
I honestly could not care if the Duggars have 5 or 50 kids. I just want Michelle to get an updated hair style!!

That said, I don't get what the big deal is about their tax status. They DO have a homechurch (at least they did on their last special). A lot of people homechurch, it's no different than belonging to a small church.

In regards to the children doing all the work. Do they do more than most kids? Probably they do. But they are fed, sheltered, and cared for. I don't see them as emotionally or physically abused. They ARE conservative Christian...but they are also children living in their parents house. And if they're like a lot of us, if there are some things your parents do that you don't like, suck it up until you move out.

Life isn't fair. You aren't the center of attention 24/7 and you need to pull your weight.

Do I understand or approve of their lifestyle? NO! I believe children are a blessing and should be treated as such. I find it hard to believe that two people treat that many children (at the same time!) as such.

But, I also don't understand the cry it out method, having $800 birthday parties for children, or spedning 2K+ at Disney world while feeding your family on $10/day.

As long as anyone isn't being abused....to each his own.
 
/
Let your kids be kids. I can't stand how the Duggars make the older kids care for the younger ones. Chores are one thing, but to be responsible like that for a child is too much even for a teenager. Their mother should be taking care of her own children, and if she can't, then she shouldn't have anymore expecting her older children to do it for her!

It's completely selfish on her part, and I think it's discusting how she lays on her back getting pregnant while her chlildren care for each other! EWWWW! She should be ashamed of herself!

How can she possibly give EACH child the love and attention they desire from HER....not their brother or sister!!!! I am all for having a large family..which in my opinion is say 5-6 kids....if you have time to devote to EACH ONE, but 17 is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
As I understand it, that's just a rumor that spread and continued to grow...

https://www.ark.org/washingtoncounty/index.php?ac:show:step3b_itemdetail=1&billno=815-29111-030
https://www.ark.org/washingtoncounty/index.php?ac:show:step3b_itemdetail=1&billno=2901455
https://www.ark.org/washingtoncounty/index.php?ac:show:step3b_itemdetail=1&billno=830-38318-000
http://www.duggarfamily.com/contactus.html

The address matches up with the address on their website.

If you go to the Arkansas tax website and enter their name it shows $0 for 2006. But if you click on each property (they seem to have the property divided up into multiple sections) it comes up as paid.

I admit that I don't understand all of this tax argument very much, but I never saw any PROOF that they didn't pay taxes. Did what you just posted show that they DO pay taxes?


On the taxpayers dime due to the way they file taxes while there are truly needy kids who will be denied as a result. :rolleyes: :sad2: But it's also highly doubtful. The girls in particular are not being exposed to those job options in the religious based curriculum they are being home schooled from. Additionally they aren't getting enough math and science background to pursue most of those options. Engineering school without high school calculus? :lmao: Nursing school or even a pre-med program without HS biology, chemistry, and physics (with labs)? Not going to happen.

I'm not saying that all home-schooled children will be denied those opportunities, but that the HS curriculum they are using will not be acceptable for them to get into a lot of programs. And even if they do wiggle in, between the culture shock of leaving the compound and the shift from counting scoops of laundry detergent and steps from the garage to the end of the driveway with the garbage can as their educational curriculum to the real world of college, I think they'll fail miserably.

Anne

On the taxpayers dime how? How about scholarships and loans like everyone else or GASP the parents pay for it! They have been shrewd money managers. I think it is most likely they will go to a Conservative Christian College and will get Financial Aid.

And how can you make ANY judgements about what they are and are not learning in their homeschool curriculum when you obviously know NOTHING about homschooling and the wealth of resources available. Just a look at the curriculums on the Duggar website shows that they are using some of the best out there. They curriculums teach Math, Science, English, Literature, Writing, Foreign Languages, History and other electives at levels higher than most public schools--including Calculus, biology, chemistry and physics WITH labs. All the resources for the labs can be purchased and done at home. And many homeschooling communities create co-ops and teach these subjects at a local university using their lab facility. Again, just because they didn't show it on TV, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Maybe Michelle isn't qualified to teach Quantum Physics, but the curriculum they choose are, and they provide Satellite or DVD resources that teach them, as well as online QandA with teachers. Even in the TV show Michelle was shown teaching the children, boys and girls, about law and torts. Certainly that was exposing them careers beyond nursing and construction.

These curriculums provide accredited High School Degrees that are equivalent to a PS degree and rigorous testing. In the state of Arkansas standardized testing is required to Homeschool. There is oversite by the state to ensure that the children, all of them, are learning more than "how to fold laundry and cook"


I don't think anyone feels that kids shouldn't have chores, or even help care for younger siblings. But the amount of responsibility thrust on these kids is repressive and inappropriate.

Those children are not getting a full education, I don't care what anyone says. They aren't learning science with labs, they aren't learning advanced mathemetics. I highly doubt Michelle is capable of teaching creative writing, and I'm sure they aren't reading the majority of the English or American literary classics due to "objectionable" content. They are getting the equivelent of a GED at best. They will never be able to get a decent score on the SAT's becaues they simply don't have the educational background to do so. That will greatly affect their career choice potential, as they will not be elegible for 95% of the colleges in this country without taking additional remedial college classes first. In a nutshell, their parents are setting them up to fail outside of their narrow little world. There's more to living then worshipping God and popping out babies. Jim Duggar knows that, and he's doing a tremendous disservice to his kids by not allowing them to fully see it as well.

Anne

Again, you have NO IDEA what homeschooling is about. Not only do most colleges now accept homeschoolers, many actively seek them out. Why? Because they realize that accademically they test higher, and do better in college than traditionally schooled kids. They are much better at working independently, they tend to be more inquisitive and are more research minded. They know how to write a decent paper and spell correctly and use proper grammar. They have HIGHER test scores on average on standardized tests--like the SATs--than their PS counterparts and they need very little remedial classes.

Quite often homeschool students go to Community College classes in what would be their "high school" years and enter a 4 year college with their basic classes already taken.

You know NOTHING about homeschooling so pick a subject you are at least an expert on to pick on them about. Maybe stick to the fact that their kids will never have purple hair and live on a golf course and listen to rock music so that will mess them up forever. Cause believe me, the fact that the homeschool and how it provides an incomplete education isn't it.
 
First of all, I was referring to the Duggar's, not all homeschoolers.

My sister homeschools. She has a Ph.D. and is a former teacher, now SAHM. My BIL has a masters in engineering and is a Six Sigma BlackBelt. Both are smart. Smart enough to realize that by the time their kids get to high school, they'll need to work something out because they aren't equipped to teach them advanced subjects. They are considering a swap with another HS family where the father is a chemist at a pharmacuetical company. My BIL will teach the math, the other father will teach the science, including lab work at his office/lab.

Anne

I know some homeschoolers that did it through high school..I was not comfortable with this. I just was not comfortable teaching higher levels of math or science.. This is exactly why I put my kids back in school when they got a bit older
 
You know NOTHING about homeschooling so pick a subject you are at least an expert on to pick on them about. Maybe stick to the fact that their kids will never have purple hair and live on a golf course and listen to rock music so that will mess them up forever. Cause believe me, the fact that the homeschool and how it provides an incomplete education isn't it.

Read my last post. I do know about homeschooling. I also know that for every case you can throw at me that the kids are achievers, there is another where the kids are practically illiterate.

If you are trying to insult me, it's not working and you're quite confused--and bordering on a personal attack. I don't have purple hair, never did. I live on a golf course, big deal. And if you say that listening to rock music makes you a bad person, then you just insulted probably 90% of the people on the DIS. For the record, I'm listening to a Christian rock band named Decyfer Down right now. Does that make me a bad person?

I'm not attacking all home schooling, I never, ever said anything negative about all homeschoolers. I'm saying that the Duggars are not giving their kids a well rounded exposure to the world. Not all homeschoolers are providing a complete education with every opportunity available, and anyone who truly thinks all homeschoolers are is either highly misinformed, or really needs a reality check.

On that note, I'm out of this thread, because it's obviously going downhill fast. It's sad when people have to resort to personal attacks to defend their position.

Anne
 
I admit that I don't understand all of this tax argument very much, but I never saw any PROOF that they didn't pay taxes. Did what you just posted show that they DO pay taxes?

It looks like they paid $3433 for 2.48 acres, $925 for .25 acres and $6639 for 20 acres in 2006. If you just search the name Duggar, James in Washington County on the Ark. tax website, it shows three listings and $0. But if you click on each property it lists the size and how much was paid. And if you list just Duggar, there is another personal item that comes up at the same address.

Now if you put in Church instead of Duggar, the same listings will come up, but so will this one for example:
https://www.ark.org/washingtoncounty/index.php?ac:show:step3b_itemdetail=1&billno=001-06406-000
The difference is this Baptist Church didn't appear to pay anything in taxes.

So I'd guess there is some truth to the fact that they prob. are writing off part of their property as a Church, but they still paid over $10,000 in property taxes last year.
 
know NOTHING about homeschooling so pick a subject you are at least an expert on to pick on them about. Maybe stick to the fact that their kids will never have purple hair and live on a golf course and listen to rock music so that will mess them up forever. Cause believe me, the fact that the homeschool and how it provides an incomplete education isn't it.

I think that is unfair, she just told you her brother does homeschooling so she has had exposure to it and it sound like she (ducklite) has even discuss some of the challenges facing homeschoolers. I am sure like in every school environment, they are good teachers and not so good teachers (even homeschool ones)

I think you are unfair to the many wonderful purple hair people, that is judgemental.. people can have purple hair and be kind, caring people, one thing has nothing to do with the other.

I listen to rock music so I guess I am messed up and DH dreams of us living on a golf course, the horrors:confused3

I dont know why two people cant watch the same show and have different takes on it. If you like these people and admire their lifestyle, all the more power to you. Bc some of us dont, there is something wrong with us. Like I keep saying they put their life out there so along with that comes cricticism.
 
Let your kids be kids. I can't stand how the Duggars make the older kids care for the younger ones. Chores are one thing, but to be responsible like that for a child is too much even for a teenager. Their mother should be taking care of her own children, and if she can't, then she shouldn't have anymore expecting her older children to do it for her!

It's completely selfish on her part, and I think it's discusting how she lays on her back getting pregnant while her chlildren care for each other! EWWWW! She should be ashamed of herself!

How can she possibly give EACH child the love and attention they desire from HER....not their brother or sister!!!! I am all for having a large family..which in my opinion is say 5-6 kids....if you have time to devote to EACH ONE, but 17 is COMPLETELY RIDICULOUS IMHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

::yes:: The older children are being forced to be parents!! Doing chores and babysitting sometimes is one thing. But this goes way beyond that! I'm glad that these children are well behaved and all that, but that is like saying that this is the only way to have "good" children!!
 
I was writing my post as she posted about having a family member that homeschools. Actually that post made me even angrier when I read it after I posted. Sorry, but everything I quoted in my reply was the same narrowminded crap that everyone that knows nothing about homeschooling thinks about it, that those that homeschool have to deal with. It is perpetuated by statements like that from people that make it sound like they know exactly what they are talking about.

Her statement about her family was just as arrogant--that homeschooling was okay for HER family because they are well educated so it is OKAY for them to homeschool. They are qualified. That is more narrowminded BULL. Anyone can homeschool, regardless of their educational background as long as they chose the right curriculum.

Yes, this is my hot button issue. And my statement about hair and rock music was to point out that judgements about things like that are just as stupid. I happen to listen to and love rock music and can't remember what my natural hair color is supposed to be! Judging a family or person for how they raise their kids based on those things would be just as silly.

I was a homeschooler. I know more about the Duggers family and lifestyle than you see on TV from my Christian homeschooling contacts. I don't agree with all that do, but I respect their lifestyle and their freedom to live it. And I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It isn't for me, but it does work and work well for them and for thousands and thousands others. I think that everyone here would all be amazed to find out how many others in the country live very similar lives to them.

And yes, I am leaving this thread now.
 
Maybe stick to the fact that their kids will never have purple hair and live on a golf course and listen to rock music so that will mess them up forever.


...and here's where I'll be jumping in.

That's a pretty sterotypical thing to say. For one, I am a very well-educated woman in a professional career. I am responsible, help to pay a mortgage, health insurance, etc. I have good morals and values. I'm raising my children in our Christian faith. But, guess what? I have always listened to rock music and always will. Lots of it! Some songs with bad words in them even. Oh, and I go to rock concerts. Still. At the age of 34. But, none of it messed me up. Not even for a minute. Shocking! I know!

I'm raising my children to have good manners, love other people who are different from themselves, and most of all to respect themselves no matter what the world throws at them. So, one day, if they do decide to dye their hair purple they'll do it with confidence because they'll know that what matters most is on the inside, not the out.
 
So two kids=they each have another sibling.



While she had many she might have considered her children, when it really came down to it, she never bore a single child. Instead she took care of the children of women who had kids they couldn't take care of.



But even that quiver can become full. When the warriors quiver is so full that he needs the help of others to care for his arrows, it's time to stop getting more. The Duggar parents are completely unable to take care of their children on their own without the help of the indentured servents--I mean older kids.



I absolutely disagree. I have one child and he is hardly celf-centered, demanding, or immature. He does volunteer work and almost never asks for anything. never has. And we've never spoiled him. If you ask him my favorite word, he'll tell you it's "no." I think that implying that any family who doesn't have multiple children is raising horrid self-centered brats is beyond rude. It's also completely untrue. I've seen large families with aboslute monsters for kids, I've seen only children who were terrors. I don't see how the size of a family makes any difference.

Anne

WOW! People on this topic are so sensitive! My point with bringing up a few well-known quotes was just to bring back the issue with this family that is their family creed of "Children are a blessing, not a burden." I didn't really think people would try to argue with a quote made by Mother Teresa!

Then you say "I think that implying that any family who doesn't have multiple children is raising horrid self-centered brats is beyond rude. It's also completely untrue." Not at all what I meant! But I hardly have the effort anymore to defend something that silly!

When you said, "I don't see how the size of a family makes any difference," I took a step back - whoa! That's what a lot of people on this board (whether or not you are one of them) are absolutely criticizing the Duggars for - the SIZE of their family. Some people would argue that that is NOT what they are saying - that they are criticizing the WAY they are having the older kids help raise the younger ones; but I would venture to guess that a lot of people (me included) spend less time with their kids than Michelle does with hers. Whether or not she has the older kids help with the younger ones, she is still their teacher and sees them much more than most of us who go to work, kids go to school, have a few hours in the evening with eachother. You can't physically have a family that big and not expect the older ones to help with the younger ones. My goodness! Common sense! Michelle has a lot more time with her kids (even though there are 16 of them) then most working parents or SAHM whose kids go to school during the day have.
 
I didn't really think people would try to argue with a quote made by Mother Teresa!
I wouldn't count on it.. A lot of people really disagree with some of the stuff Mother Teresa advocated.
 
Again, you have NO IDEA what homeschooling is about. Not only do most colleges now accept homeschoolers, many actively seek them out. Why? Because they realize that accademically they test higher, and do better in college than traditionally schooled kids. They are much better at working independently, they tend to be more inquisitive and are more research minded. They know how to write a decent paper and spell correctly and use proper grammar. They have HIGHER test scores on average on standardized tests--like the SATs--than their PS counterparts and they need very little remedial classes.
Looking at the homeschoolers I know, SOME of them are providing the top-notch college-prep education that you're describing . . . while OTHERS are essentially teaching their children nothing all day long and just using homeschooling as a way to avoid the hassel of adhering to the school's timetable, etc.

I really believe that there will be few "average" homeschoolers. I think half of them will enter adulthood very well prepared, though probably less well-rounded than the typical traditional schooler . . . and the other half will be seriously under-educated and totally unprepared for the real world. I think there'll be very few "in betweens".

Before we start singing the praises or throwing arrows at homeschoolers, I think it's only fair to acknowledge that BOTH groups exist. Which camp are the Duggars in? Probably none of us here know for certain.
 
Anyone can homeschool, regardless of their educational background as long as they chose the right curriculum.
If this is true, then every 2nd grade teacher in our county is exactly equal to every other 2nd grade teacher in our county. After all, they all have the same textbooks and the same resources -- the same curriculum.

But in reality, we all know that every 2nd grade teacher isn't equal to every other 2nd grade teacher. Some of them are naturally more patient, more kind, more able to explain things on the kids' level. Some of them are more creative, some of them are better at managing classroom behavior. Some just xerox pages from the teacher's resource book, while others put together creative, hands-on projects. Some of them are naturals at organizing the classroom, some of them are strong on teaching reading, and some of them are better at putting together simple science experiements and history projects. Some of these abilities are innate, but much of what they're good at has been TAUGHT TO THEM through the educational process.

So I don't really think it's fair to say that anyone with a curriculum in hand can teach effectively.
 

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