Duggar surprise?

[CurlyGirl]

this! That's 16 kids between 4 wives, and they're hardly focused on how many children they can cram into their fertile years.

amen!!!

 

[DianeV]

I'm not sure if you are referring to my post that mentioned prisoners but I never said they have it better? I was only comparing how many say that a prisoner did so well in jail and didnt get in any trouble etc etc. I was saying that is the same with these kids. Neither gets exposed to the real world. They are 'sheltered' or 'cocooned'

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow...so much anger directed at people no one even 'really' knows.

Just curious.....how do you all feel about those who raise their children in Amish communities? Do you hate them too? For their belief system? Their lifestyle? The way they choose to raise their families?

IMO...to each his own. Who am I to tell others how to live? Opinions are fine and dandy but, at some point, continuing to criticize people (especially people you don't even know) for doing things differently than you do becomes nothing short of obnoxious.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I'm not sure if you are referring to my post that mentioned prisoners but I never said they have it better? I was only comparing how many say that a prisoner did so well in jail and didnt get in any trouble etc etc. I was saying that is the same with these kids. Neither gets exposed to the real world. They are 'sheltered' or 'cocooned'

Won't go back and find the quote myself as I am on a short time table here...

But it was compared to solitary confinement and only being not quite as bad but close. I associate that phrase with the prison system.

I have no idea if it was you who made that comment, but that was what I was referencing.

Again--when we go to extreme comparisons, it really diffuses your point and practically makes it meaningless.

These kids get plenty of exposure to the real world. They just don't necessarily see all of the world. I know several families who have given up television. Some just broadcast/cable are removed while they still do videos and others have it completely eliminated out of their household to the extent the Duggars have it removed. That would mean that videos pertaining to their studies may be viewed.

There are plenty of valid reasons to eliminate television. Again--not a choice I would necessarily make.

(Just one example. Short on time.)

 

[C.Ann]

Wow...so much anger directed at people no one even 'really' knows.

Just curious.....how do you all feel about those who raise their children in Amish communities? Do you hate them too? For their belief system? Their lifestyle? The way they choose to raise their families?

IMO...to each his own. Who am I to tell others how to live? Opinions are fine and dandy but, at some point, continuing to criticize people (especially people you don't even know) for doing things differently than you do becomes nothing short of obnoxious.

Agreed - I attribute a lot of the criticism to ignorance and immaturity and our constant need as a society to denegrate others.

Pretty much sums it up..

Personally, I love Sister Wives. I respect the choices they made, as consenting adults. They don't come off as superior in their beliefs; they don't think they're better than anyone else.

I'm all for people living their lives the way they choose, but hell yes, I might very well have opinions about them, especially if they're making a point of putting themselves on display.

Those children are put on "display" as well.. I doubt there would be a show if there were only 4 wives and no children involved..

Interesting opinion, given that the 'consenting adults' of Sister Wives have their combined 16 children featured on the show also

No 16 children, no show.. How often have the children been talked about and analyzed on the Sister Wives thread?

------------------

It's done.. Michelle is pregnant again and no one here can "undo" that.. So - I wonder how much energy people who have issues with the Duggars are willing to expend on praying for a healthy outcome for both mom and baby?
As much as the indignation on this thread?

I seriously have to wonder after reading many of the posts on this thread..

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Those children are put on "display" as well.. I doubt there would be a show if there were only 4 wives and no children involved..

No 16 children, no show.. How often have the children been talked about and analyzed on the Sister Wives thread?

------------------

It's done.. Michelle is pregnant again and no one here can "undo" that.. So - I wonder how much energy people who have issues with the Duggars are willing to expend on praying for a healthy outcome for both mom and baby?
As much as the indignation on this thread?

I seriously have to wonder after reading many of the posts on this thread..

Another "angry at the DISers" post. I suggest you redirect some of your indignation towards praying for the health of the mother and baby as well.

The topic/focus/story/interest of Sister Wives is, in fact, the WIVES. I don't know how much people have analyzed or talked about the kids on the Sister Wives, nor here. I haven't scrutinized that thread, nor this one. The children themselves are not especially the focus of MY interest, except with regard to the Duggars, Michelle and JimBob's apparent IMHO obsession with QUANTITY.

People on the Sister Wives thread have a lot of negative things to say about them all, very different from how I feel. And I've said so. At the very least, I respect the fact that the Sister Wives have put themselves out there, and that people will be discuss them. I believe though, and respect, that Sister Wives motive was to present their lifestyle with the intent of promoting understanding and acceptance. I, IMHO, personally, feel that the Duggars put themselves out there to show the superiority of their lifestyle and to "brag" for lack of a better word about HOW MANY children they have.

Yes, it's true...no one here can undo Michelle's pregnancy. confused3) And I'd never wish any ill will on a baby, no matter how much their parents choose to exploit them.

 

[CurlyGirl]

I doubt there would be a show if there were only 4 wives and no children involved..

Seriously?! That is totally ridiculous. After the whole Warren Jeffs polygamist ranch raid and trial, there has been a lot of interest in polygamists and their lifestyle. Not to mention the interest created by the fictional show "Big Love" which was about a polygamist family. They could do a show about a polygamist and his 4 wives if there weren't any kids ... especially since it came on the tails of the whole Warren Jeffs thing. That show doesn't depend on the kids ... they've covered a lot of how the women feel about the situation more than how the kids feel about it. Who gets more face time on that show? The WIVES!

Do you honestly think anyone would be interested in a show called "19 kids and counting" if there weren't any kids?!

So - I wonder how much energy people who have issues with the Duggars are willing to expend on praying for a healthy outcome for both mom and baby?

Apparently you have not read the entire thread because myself, as well as others, have said we hope that all goes well for Michelle, her new baby, and her pregnancy. Perhaps you should spend more time reading the posts and not making assumptions!?

 

[handinpocket]

Another "angry at the DISers" post. I suggest you redirect some of your indignation towards praying for the health of the mother and baby as well.
.

Passive agressive condescension.....nice.

Now, back on topic, I don't care how many kids these people have. The children seem to be well adjusted and not a drain on society, however; if Michelle cared at all for her other children she would not risk another pregnancy. I do think she has a mental disorder.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Passive agressive condescension.....nice. .

Huh??? lol People throw that "passive aggressive" accusation around quite a bit on the DIS.

C. Ann seems to be a very angry poster, at least today; I'm not a follower. She wondered how many people expressing indignation prayed for the health of the baby and mother (or something like that...my laptop doesn't show prior posts). I suggested she do the same with hers. No?

 

[CurlyGirl]

Just to help you out, Mare ...

So - I wonder how much energy people who have issues with the Duggars are willing to expend on praying for a healthy outcome for both mom and baby?
As much as the indignation on this thread?

I suggest you redirect some of your indignation towards praying for the health of the mother and baby as well.

C. Ann seems to be a very angry poster, at least today; I'm not a follower. She wondered how many people expressing indignation prayed for the health of the baby and mother (or something like that...my laptop doesn't show prior posts). I suggested she do the same with hers. No?

And, yes ... you suggested she do the same. I saw nothing passive-aggressive about what you wrote. Sounded like you were wondering if CAnn was practicing what she was preaching after her diatribe.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Just to help you out, Mare ...







And, yes ... you suggested she do the same. I saw nothing passive-aggressive about what you wrote. Sounded like you were wondering if CAnn was practicing what she was preaching after her diatribe.

Thank you.

 

[CurlyGirl]

Thank you.

My pleasure!

 

[Eeyore98]

Wow, that is a pretty huge leap, comparing the Duggar girls situation to those of women in the FDLS, which was committing crimes against women and girls

Whether or not the Duggar girls will stay with their family or marry an ATI boy or go to college outside the home, or not, remains to be seen. But there is nothing to suggest that they are in a situation like the FDLS women.

I think the girls will be just fine. Probably, some of them will marry and have several children, and some will have a career and work, perhaps marrying later. Just like kids do from families that aren't the Duggars

Way to distort my point. The degree of control is obviously different, but the psychological principles at work are the same. The ATI folks don't take it into illegality with child brides, multiple wives, etc., but it is still very much a completely immersive worldview which teaches that derivation and independence from their principles is sinful.

I would be thrilled to see some of the Duggar girls grow up to work outside the home, but I know what principles ATI teaches, and so I strongly doubt that will ever happen. For example, they do NOT believe divorce should be allowed, even in the case of abuse! They teach that a woman is always under some male's "umbrella of protection" - first her father, then her husband.

Do you really believe it is "just fine" for a young girl to grow up with indoctrination like this from birth?

Just curious.....how do you all feel about those who raise their children in Amish communities? Do you hate them too? For their belief system? Their lifestyle? The way they choose to raise their families?

When the Duggars start allowing their children a rumspringa, get back to me.

But for the record, yes, it does bother me that the Amish are allowed to end their children's education at age 13, and that a child who wants to attend high school and/or college runs the risk of excommunication.

The government allows anyone the right to practice their religion as they see fit. But they guarantee me freedom of speech as well, and I will use it to criticize religious practices that I see as harmful, especially when those practices involve severely restricting the experiences and education of children.

 

[tlbwriter]

I'm pretty sure that you will think I am abusing my own children by "sheltering" them. But since we homeschool---OF COURSE we migrate to groups of similar interests and beliefs. There are all kinds of groups out there and MOST that I have had access to, in many ways are for a particular belief system. ETA: And it is all sorts of belief systems. I won't join certain groups, because I am either not welcome, or their beliefs are so contradictory to my own. This is not a bad thing. Same reason that you may join whatever "groups" you join for your own personal benefit.
The kids do interact with those of different beliefs on the show. Unless they are only going to particular screened mission camps where all are of the same belief system and restrictions.

My children are also "limited" on their college choices. And that is because we are providing the payment for the tuition. We bought into Florida pre-pay, so they will pretty much be "stuck" going within the SUS of Florida. Sure--not quite as limited as the Duggars, but limited none the less.

As it is--people hear "homeschool' and they are automatically influenced to feel they are sheltered regardless of the rest of what they do. In fact--it is the first thing you mention which shows incredible bias.

My family does the same thing. They presume my kids are sheltered. Oh well. Not their kids to raise.

Lisa, I wouldn't call your kids sheltered. Nor would I compare their choices to the Duggar kids' "choices." You and your kids hang out with people of similar beliefs because that's who they meet. But if they met someone at dance class who was very different, you'd let them be friends, right? Do we know if the Duggar kids can do that? Your kids are limited to certain colleges for financial reasons, not because you have chosen the one college they can attend. If they had a full ride scholarship to another school, or won the lottery, they'd be able to step outside those boundaries, right? Do you think the Duggar kids would?

However, the pp's who keep saying Jimbob "knows what he wants for his daughters"......well, don't we ALL know what we would think is suitable for our daughters for marriage? There was a thread at some point in the past this year about potential suiters for your children because one comment stood out to me about one poster wanted her daughter to find someone who felt for her like the lyrics in a popular song at the time (the song where the guy is singing about take a bullet to the head for you).... How is that different? I mean, if your child is dating someone who you are not happy with or you feel is a bad person, would you not speak up to them?

There's a difference between knowing what you want for your daughter, guiding her toward something, and forcing her to take it. There's a difference between realizing one particular person is bad for your child, and being the one who decides which person is good for your child. Yes, I know what kind of husband I'd like my daughter to have. I've even joked about arranging a marriage for her. But that is so completely different from actually feeling I have the right to do it. I don't see how you could possibly compare the two.

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

My problem is that this woman is either so crazy, or so brain washed that she doesn't care about her own saftey let alone the saftey of her kids. It is irresponsible to have a child knowing that you are endangering their health and yours.

 

[princessmom29]

Lisa, I wouldn't call your kids sheltered. Nor would I compare their choices to the Duggar kids' "choices." You and your kids hang out with people of similar beliefs because that's who they meet. But if they met someone at dance class who was very different, you'd let them be friends, right? Do we know if the Duggar kids can do that? Your kids are limited to certain colleges for financial reasons, not because you have chosen the one college they can attend. If they had a full ride scholarship to another school, or won the lottery, they'd be able to step outside those boundaries, right? Do you think the Duggar kids would?



There's a difference between knowing what you want for your daughter, guiding her toward something, and forcing her to take it. There's a difference between realizing one particular person is bad for your child, and being the one who decides which person is good for your child. Yes, I know what kind of husband I'd like my daughter to have. I've even joked about arranging a marriage for her. But that is so completely different from actually feeling I have the right to do it. I don't see how you could possibly compare the two.

ITA with both of these, and this is the problem I have with the Duggars. Not that they teach thier children thier values and thier religino, but that they remove all choice about it. As another poster pointed out, we all know what ATI is nad what it teaches and theese kids have been indoctrinated with that since birth, according to their parents. They have been taught it is sinful to deviate from the course set out for them. I realize some here just don't want to believe it, because they are such "nice" kids, but these are the facts of the situation. I would suggest that those of you who don't want to beleive it go back and watch the first tv specials, before the series, and along with the first season. They were still dressing the girls like Little House on the Prarie and still talking about thier belief system. It would be very enlightening as to waht they TRULY believe. They don't discuss it much anymore on the show because many didn't agree with much of what Jim Bob was spewing.

 

[Pigeon]

Way to distort my point. The degree of control is obviously different, but the psychological principles at work are the same. The ATI folks don't take it into illegality with child brides, multiple wives, etc., but it is still very much a completely immersive worldview which teaches that derivation and independence from their principles is sinful.

I would be thrilled to see some of the Duggar girls grow up to work outside the home, but I know what principles ATI teaches, and so I strongly doubt that will ever happen. For example, they do NOT believe divorce should be allowed, even in the case of abuse! They teach that a woman is always under some male's "umbrella of protection" - first her father, then her husband.

Do you really believe it is "just fine" for a young girl to grow up with indoctrination like this from birth?



When the Duggars start allowing their children a rumspringa, get back to me.

But for the record, yes, it does bother me that the Amish are allowed to end their children's education at age 13, and that a child who wants to attend high school and/or college runs the risk of excommunication.

The government allows anyone the right to practice their religion as they see fit. But they guarantee me freedom of speech as well, and I will use it to criticize religious practices that I see as harmful, especially when those practices involve severely restricting the experiences and education of children.

I agree completely. I think the Duggars are really almost as bad as the FDLS.

But the Amish rumspringa strikes me as a sham. If you take a kid and give him a limited eduction that stops at age 13, who has only experienced the kind of insular life that the Amish live, they are totally unequipped to make any sort of life for themselves in the real world. So, you pretend to give them freedom that you have hobbled them to enjoy, and most of them come right back, which really was the plan all along. I don't think the Amish lifestyle is benign in the least.