Dues Reserve Balances come 2042?

abner1776

DIS Veteran
Joined
Feb 24, 2006
Messages
1,245
So, we purchased BR in 2006 and have paid dues for 18 years with another 18 to go until 2042. It suddenly occurred to me...so what happens to the millions of $$$ sitting in the BR maintenance reserve in 2042 when our contract expires ? It may say something in my contract from 2006, but I'm too lazy to dig out the legalese verbiage.
Just wondering if anyone knows the answer and obviously this issue applies to OKW and all other resorts as well.
 
For the 2042 resorts, the final annual dues will be Jan 15, 2041. Hopefully they don't plan to do a big refurb the last few years of the contract, but I don't know what would stop them. IMHO, it wouldn't be fair if they get the existing owners to pay for the refurb just in time for DVD to reclaim ownership and start selling the resort again. Hopefully they adjust the budget & reserves the last few years with the current owners in mind.
 
For the 2042 resorts, the final annual dues will be Jan 15, 2041. Hopefully they don't plan to do a big refurb the last few years of the contract, but I don't know what would stop them. IMHO, it wouldn't be fair if they get the existing owners to pay for the refurb just in time for DVD to reclaim ownership and start selling the resort again. Hopefully they adjust the budget & reserves the last few years with the current owners in mind.

They would not be able to renovate like that in the past few years.
 

My guess is that they'll keep sizeable capital reserves, if the law allows. This way, if someone defaults on a contract they wouldn't get their share. Might keep people paying MF until the very end.
 
For the 2042 resorts, the final annual dues will be Jan 15, 2041. Hopefully they don't plan to do a big refurb the last few years of the contract, but I don't know what would stop them. IMHO, it wouldn't be fair if they get the existing owners to pay for the refurb just in time for DVD to reclaim ownership and start selling the resort again. Hopefully they adjust the budget & reserves the last few years with the current owners in mind.
Florida has laws against that.
 
DVC is likely not obligated to return anything to the OKW owners with contracts expiring 2042 because the DVC resort will still be in existence there until 2057. Those owners with 2042 expiring contracts will be in the same position as any member who, by sale or otherwise, transfers ownership to someone else, and any dues already paid remain with the association.

Under the Florida laws that existed before 2022, there would be no question that DVC could, starting sometime before 2042, begin reducing reserves to be collected annually for the 2042 expiring Florida Resorts so that little or no reserves are left by January 2042. DVC could even just stop colleting such reserves in the last few years. Moroever, there would be no question that as to dues leftover on the expiration date, and not needed to pay any as yet unpaid bills for repairs done before the expiration date, the money would be returned to the still existing member/owners at the time of expiration.

The current unknown about those conclusions is a Florida law passed in 2022 relating to the structural integrity of condominium and cooperative buildings that are three stories or more high, which would include OKW and the WDW and VB DVC resorts actually expiring in 2042. A substantial portion of the changes are actually in the portion of the statutes that deals with the structural issues of buildings in general rather than just condominiums or cooperatives. A main applicable section is Fl Stats §553.899

The applicable 2022 changes to the law essentially provide that the associations for such condo and cooperative buildings must have structural integrity inspections done by engineers, who review the structural elements, such as, roofs, walls, and foundations, and determine what may be immediately needed and what will be needed in the future to assure structural integrity. The initial inspection must be done when a building is 30-years-old (which includes most of OKW and will soon include the DVC resorts that actually have a 2042 end date), and then inspected again every 10-years thereafter. Any building that was 30-years-old before December 2024, has until December 31, 2024 to complete the first such inspection.

The costs and estimated costs provided by the inspection for needed repairs or replacements must be charged through dues, payable over time until the repair or replacement is needed. Such dues are not to be used for unrelated matters, and the associations are prohibited from waiving owners’ obligations to pay such dues. Before 2022, associations, through member votes, could actually cease collecting such reserves and simply cover such future costs by special assessments when needed.

The new law mentions nothing as to what can be done when a condo deconversion is to occur, like the DVC resorts in 2042. However, because of the non-waiver provision, it seems one might conclude that DVC must continue to charge and collect the applicable reserves until 2042 based on actual estimates of future repairs even if those repairs are to occur after 2042, particularly because the 2042 date is always subject to the potential that DVD could extend it (like OKW). Moreover, there might even be a question of whether members can get back any dues after the 2042 expiration occurs under an argument that the amount was collected to assure the building did not become a major problem in the future and any such amounts are required to be devoted to future repairs of the building rather than being returned to the owners.
 
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My guess is that they will begin to lower the amount of money that goes in it so that it’s as close to zero as it can be by the time the contract ends.
That would be a nice benefit, to have lowering dues towards the end of the contract. Hopefully that happens. We are new owners at a 2042 resort and due to our age, thought the expiration date was perfect.
 
Personally I don’t see why they shouldn’t do a full refurb right before the end date.
Like renting a car… pick it up with a full tank, return it with a full tank.
 
For the 2042 resorts, the final annual dues will be Jan 15, 2041. Hopefully they don't plan to do a big refurb the last few years of the contract, but I don't know what would stop them. IMHO, it wouldn't be fair if they get the existing owners to pay for the refurb just in time for DVD to reclaim ownership and start selling the resort again. Hopefully they adjust the budget & reserves the last few years with the current owners in mind.
Wouldn’t there be 1 month of dues for 2042?
 
Wouldn’t there be 1 month of dues for 2042?
My assumption is that DVC's intent, assuming that Jan 31, 2042 end date is maintained, is not to charge any dues for Jan 2042, or possibly include them in the 2041 dues. As a practical matter, if such Jan dues were created under the current rules which have them become due Jan 15, 2042, but do not actually have to be paid until Feb 15, Disney is going to have an impossible job collecting such dues if members do not pay. As of Feb 1, 2042, DVC will not be able to force recovery of unpaid dues as it can before that date by cancelling the members reservations for rooms at the resort or pursuing payment via a foreclosure of the member's ownership interest. The only option DVC would have is to file, after Feb 15, individual arbitration claims against the non-paying, now-former members who do not pay by Feb 15, and DVC's cost of pursuing each claim would likely be more than it can recover from any member.
 
That would be a nice benefit, to have lowering dues towards the end of the contract. Hopefully that happens. We are new owners at a 2042 resort and due to our age, thought the expiration date was perfect.

Given what @drusba just posted about new laws, it sounds like this situation might no longer be legally allowed.
 
With 18 years left, lots of time to speculate (and for laws to be changed, etc)
Unfortunately, it appears to me that our DVC condominium associations come under the same laws as all those condominium buildings lining the beaches of Florida, as well as elsewhere in the state. So we might not be able to have an exception made for the relatively few DVC condo associations vs. the larger number of non-DVC, which is what would be required. I think the best we can hope for, assuming nothing changes, would be for Disney to fund the necessary reserves, at least for expenses that will almost certainly not come due until after 1/31/2042. (Yeah, right, Disney will fund them! 😏)
 
Unfortunately, it appears to me that our DVC condominium associations come under the same laws as all those condominium buildings lining the beaches of Florida, as well as elsewhere in the state. So we might not be able to have an exception made for the relatively few DVC condo associations vs. the larger number of non-DVC, which is what would be required. I think the best we can hope for, assuming nothing changes, would be for Disney to fund the necessary reserves, at least for expenses that will almost certainly not come due until after 1/31/2042. (Yeah, right, Disney will fund them! 😏)
The law is applicable everywhere in Florida but resulted from the collapse of a large condominium building in Surfside, Fl in June 2021. Investigations done indicated the collapse was potentially the result of inadequate structural inspections and the failure to create proper maintenance requirements and dues to cover structural issues. The law is actually something for which part of it was adopted in 2022 and another part in 2023. The 2023 additions, effective July 1, 2024, added such things as educational requirement for association officers and the creation of reports covering the results of any structural inspections that need to be made available to owners upon request. The now four required annual meetings was a part of that addition. There was also a change that says the inspectors can be persons who may not necessarily be engineers but are under the supervision of such an engineer. And the Dec 2024 date for making the first structural integrity inspection of any building already 30-years old was extended to Dec 2025.

We may see some dues increases that result from the new laws, although DVC probably has done much in some form in the past of what is now specifically required (but obviously not four meetings a year). From reports I have seen and heard, there are apparently a lot of condominium buildings that are facing significant increases in dues because they were not doing anything like the required structural reviews in the past and were either not charging reserves or charging inadequate amounts to cover what may be needed under the new laws.
 
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The law is applicable everywhere in Florida but resulted from the collapse of a large condominium building in Surfside, Fl in June 2021. Investigations done indicated the collapse was potentially the result of inadequate structural inspections and the failure to create proper maintenance requirements and dues to cover structural issues. The law is actually something for which part of it was adopted in 2022 and another part in 2023. The 2023 additions, effective July 1, 2024, added such things as educational requirement for association officers and the creation of reports covering the results of any structural inspections that need to be made available to owners upon request. The now four required annual meetings was a part of that addition. There was also a change that says the inspectors can be persons who may not necessarily be engineers but are under the supervision of such an engineer. And the Dec 2024 date for making the first structural integrity inspection of any building already 30-years old was extended to Dec 2025.

We may see some dues increases that result from the new laws, although DVC probably has done much in some form in the past of what is now specifically required (but obviously not four meetings a year). From reports I have seen and heard about, there are apparently a lot of condominium buildings that are facing significant increases in dues because they were not doing anything like the required structural reviews in the past and were either not charging reserves or charging inadequate amounts to cover what may be needed under the new laws.
Thanks for the detailed explanation of the new laws. I knew from reading on TUG that they came about as a result of the collapse and affect far more than timeshare condo associations. There are also already reports on TUG of notices of large special assessments, which makes me thankful that our DVC MFs have always included amounts for capital reserves.
 
We may see some dues increases that result from the new laws, although DVC probably has done much in some form in the past of what is now specifically required (but obviously not four meetings a year). From reports I have seen and heard about, there are apparently a lot of condominium buildings that are facing significant increases in dues because they were not doing anything like the required structural reviews in the past and were either not charging reserves or charging inadequate amounts to cover what may be needed under the new laws.
I know i've read at least one article regarding some beach-front condo values significantly decreasing due to hefty special assessments (and increased insurance rates).
 
Wouldn’t there be 1 month of dues for 2042?
Yes, interesting point. If the due date for that 1 month of dues is Jan 15, 2042, I think that a lot of people wouldn't pay it. Perhaps they'll make the Jan 15, 2041 annual dues be for a 13 month year that includes Jan 2042? There are a lot of unknowns that will be cleared up in time.
 
This should be interesting. When we bought 14 years ago, 31 years seemed like a long ways away. Now that 2042 is only 17 years away, it seems like its around the corner!
 
The law is applicable everywhere in Florida but resulted from the collapse of a large condominium building in Surfside, Fl in June 2021. Investigations done indicated the collapse was potentially the result of inadequate structural inspections and the failure to create proper maintenance requirements and dues to cover structural issues. The law is actually something for which part of it was adopted in 2022 and another part in 2023. The 2023 additions, effective July 1, 2024, added such things as educational requirement for association officers and the creation of reports covering the results of any structural inspections that need to be made available to owners upon request. The now four required annual meetings was a part of that addition. There was also a change that says the inspectors can be persons who may not necessarily be engineers but are under the supervision of such an engineer. And the Dec 2024 date for making the first structural integrity inspection of any building already 30-years old was extended to Dec 2025.

We may see some dues increases that result from the new laws, although DVC probably has done much in some form in the past of what is now specifically required (but obviously not four meetings a year). From reports I have seen and heard, there are apparently a lot of condominium buildings that are facing significant increases in dues because they were not doing anything like the required structural reviews in the past and were either not charging reserves or charging inadequate amounts to cover what may be needed under the new laws.

Even something such as an inspection if not already being done seemingly would be so insignificant in an annual budget for a DVC property.

In a building with 18 people where the HOA is never going to update everything its different than DVC where they are gutting the rooms every so often in addition to a much higher level of up keep.

Regarding training Disney is already going to have extensive compliance training teams so this essentially is just an extra project and at most would have a upfront cost which after which is minimal as the training is unlikely to really ever be updated.
 











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