Drop-side cribs banned!

[justhat]

I know this is way off the subject of the crib recall but there seems to be a debate raging about weather cribs should only be used for sleeping or if older babies should be able to play with toys and stand in them. I have to say that I think the crib is a wonderful way to teach older babies/young children about having quiet alone time. Where else can you leave your baby alone and expect them to be relatively safe. I always put my children down in their cribs and got them back up on a strict time schedule weather they played with toys or slept was their choice. The younger they were the more they slept the older they got the time became more mixed until eventually they never took naps anymore but were happy to have a couple of hours of quiet play time. As newborns they had no toys (wouldn't know what to do with them anyway), but by a few months old there were a couple of rattles, and eventually other toys. I changed them out frequently so they had new things to look at. It was wonderful not to have morning wake up time and nap time duration decided by how tired my child was that particular day, it was set by the clock. I got both my kids up at 9:00 every morning regardless of weather they woke up at 7:30 or 8:45. I did this consistently everyday beginning at about 6 weeks and they both had the hang of it by between 2 and 3 months and never fussed to get up. Nap time was the same, 2 hours in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon. As they grew and got to a year and a half of so it changed to one 2 hour nap, which eventually became room time as they moved from cribs to beds. They continued to have room time until kindergarten. They both have wonderful imaginations and play the most creative games both individually and together. Learning how to occupy yourself is a great thing and the crib can be a wonderful place to do, but only if you start early. If you wait till they are older they will fight it. Oh, I did have a monitor but only a sound one, not video.

Though we don't really do that, I agree with the principle that it's great for them to have alone time and learn how to drift off to sleep in their own way, or rest when they need to even if it doesn't mean sleeping. My friend did exactly what you're describing with all 3 of her kids and when her son was older and no longer napping (around 3yo), he would just get up and go sit in his room midday on most days, just to quietly play with his own toys. He'd stay up there about an hour, then come back down when he was ready. And she had stopped enforcing a nap/rest time on him by then, so it was all his own doing because he must have likely the routine and quiet time.

I do try to keep the nap times the same too, for that reason. If I don't, there's no way I can get anything done with 2 other kids to take care of. They HAVE to be dropped off and picked up from school at set times, and they have activities after school most days as well. So, if my baby doesn't nap like she needs to each day, she is a miserable child during those after-school activities and won't last till dinner.

Daycare is a completely different enviornment. I worked daycare for years as well. Caregivers are ALWAYS supposed to be IN THE ROOM with infants, at least according to our state regulations. They can NEVER be left alone, and you are not supposed to allow any blankets or toys in the crib. The shared glass wall bit would not fly here. Someone MUST be IN THE ROOM with the children at all times. WE are also not allowed to have standard cribs. Regs require the metal cribs with a door in the side b/c you can sanitize those. NO more wooden cribs can be purchased by state regulated daycares. The metal cribs have very tall sides, and very few children are taller than the rail at a year. If they are it is only by an inch or 2. At one they are moved to a toddler room, and they nap on a cot about 2 inches off the floor. Yes, they learn very quickly that they are not allowed off the cot during nap time. If anything daycares are MORE limited than parents as to what they can allow.

That must be specific to your state. We lived in Washington, DC until this past summer and the daycare I worked at there had wooden cribs, with plastic drop sides. Same with the cribs in the daycares in MD and VA that my friends had their kids in. We now live in AZ and the school my kids attend has an infant program as well (not exactly a daycare as the hours are only 8:30-3:30, so I can't really figure out the point for a 4 month old unless the mom only works part time). The cribs there are also wooden cribs, with clear, plexiglass panels on the side. I am not sure if they have drop sides or not. And they look to be the same as the cribs that DCL uses in Flounder's Reef nursery.

The daycare I worked at, people were always in the room, though I believe during naptime it was legally allowed to sit in the break room, which was immediately next door. It's possible that the infant teachers sat in there, but I'm not really sure as I worked with the toddlers. But when the infant teachers were there, the babies would often be standing and shaking the cribs. Like I said, we shared a glass wall with them and some babies (mostly the boys around 9-15 months, when they moved to the toddler room) would shake the crib to the point that it would hit the glass wall. So watching them or not, they are still shaking and potentially damaging the crib. So the next time a baby is in there, it is possible the the sides wouldn't be as tight as they should and entrapment could occur.


Regarding the toys in the crib, you must not have read my paragraph that you directly replied to because I stated "I mean, past the age where it would be a danger of suffocation that is." So my youngest daughter started using the crib at 7 months old, at which point she was rolling both ways, scooting, and sitting up on her own. So I put in some small stuffed animals and a month or 2 later a couple of soft books. She has a few tiny "lovey" type blankets in there, with the animals heads, and likes to hold and touch them as she falls asleep.

As for a newborn, well, of course I know they shouldn't have anything in the crib, and regarding a dr telling me that, my husband is one, so we're pretty up to date on infant safety. But a newborn wouldn't be playing before falling asleep anyway, so toys wouldn't be an issue.

Everyone wants to know their baby is asleep safely, but not everyone can afford video monitors. Like you said you couldn't spend a lot on a crib, typically people who can't spend a lot on a crib also can't spend a few hundred on video monitors. We did have an old-school video monitor with our 1st 2 actually, but we lived in a condo made with steel beams where the video reception didn't work at all. So we never used it. But it didn't matter much, because our home was very tiny and the upstairs was entirely an open floorplan so we could hear everything without the monitor.

Like I said though, with 1 child, yes, you can sit around and stare at just them on the monitor, a luxury I never knew I had until I had a 2nd child. Now, with 3 of them, the only time my older kids get without the baby is when she naps and the hour between her bedtime and theirs. Many times they want me to play outside with them, take them in the pool (without me having to hold a baby), play a board game, color, whatever. So I would like to be assured that if my child is sleeping in her crib, a bed made specifically for containing babies, that she is safe.

Or forget my older kids wants, or my own like showering, what about needs? My son was sick 2 months ago with a stomach bug and woke me up at 4am when he came into my room with a tummy ache. He spent the morning vomiting in a bucket on my bed. My baby wakes up just around 6am daily. My husband is long gone for work by then as he is an anesthesiologist and needs to be set up for the 1st surgeries of the day. So it was me alone with 3 kids, one of them puking every 30 minutes. So when my baby woke up, and I was holding my 4yo while he threw up, it's nice to know she's in a safe place until I can get to her.

 

[princessmom29]

Though we don't really do that, I agree with the principle that it's great for them to have alone time and learn how to drift off to sleep in their own way, or rest when they need to even if it doesn't mean sleeping. My friend did exactly what you're describing with all 3 of her kids and when her son was older and no longer napping (around 3yo), he would just get up and go sit in his room midday on most days, just to quietly play with his own toys. He'd stay up there about an hour, then come back down when he was ready. And she had stopped enforcing a nap/rest time on him by then, so it was all his own doing because he must have likely the routine and quiet time.

I do try to keep the nap times the same too, for that reason. If I don't, there's no way I can get anything done with 2 other kids to take care of. They HAVE to be dropped off and picked up from school at set times, and they have activities after school most days as well. So, if my baby doesn't nap like she needs to each day, she is a miserable child during those after-school activities and won't last till dinner.




That must be specific to your state. We lived in Washington, DC until this past summer and the daycare I worked at there had wooden cribs, with plastic drop sides. Same with the cribs in the daycares in MD and VA that my friends had their kids in. We now live in AZ and the school my kids attend has an infant program as well (not exactly a daycare as the hours are only 8:30-3:30, so I can't really figure out the point for a 4 month old unless the mom only works part time). The cribs there are also wooden cribs, with clear, plexiglass panels on the side. I am not sure if they have drop sides or not. And they look to be the same as the cribs that DCL uses in Flounder's Reef nursery.

The daycare I worked at, people were always in the room, though I believe during naptime it was legally allowed to sit in the break room, which was immediately next door. It's possible that the infant teachers sat in there, but I'm not really sure as I worked with the toddlers. But when the infant teachers were there, the babies would often be standing and shaking the cribs. Like I said, we shared a glass wall with them and some babies (mostly the boys around 9-15 months, when they moved to the toddler room) would shake the crib to the point that it would hit the glass wall. So watching them or not, they are still shaking and potentially damaging the crib. So the next time a baby is in there, it is possible the the sides wouldn't be as tight as they should and entrapment could occur.


Regarding the toys in the crib, you must not have read my paragraph that you directly replied to because I stated "I mean, past the age where it would be a danger of suffocation that is." So my youngest daughter started using the crib at 7 months old, at which point she was rolling both ways, scooting, and sitting up on her own. So I put in some small stuffed animals and a month or 2 later a couple of soft books. She has a few tiny "lovey" type blankets in there, with the animals heads, and likes to hold and touch them as she falls asleep.

As for a newborn, well, of course I know they shouldn't have anything in the crib, and regarding a dr telling me that, my husband is one, so we're pretty up to date on infant safety. But a newborn wouldn't be playing before falling asleep anyway, so toys wouldn't be an issue.

Everyone wants to know their baby is asleep safely, but not everyone can afford video monitors. Like you said you couldn't spend a lot on a crib, typically people who can't spend a lot on a crib also can't spend a few hundred on video monitors. We did have an old-school video monitor with our 1st 2 actually, but we lived in a condo made with steel beams where the video reception didn't work at all. So we never used it. But it didn't matter much, because our home was very tiny and the upstairs was entirely an open floorplan so we could hear everything without the monitor.

Like I said though, with 1 child, yes, you can sit around and stare at just them on the monitor, a luxury I never knew I had until I had a 2nd child. Now, with 3 of them, the only time my older kids get without the baby is when she naps and the hour between her bedtime and theirs. Many times they want me to play outside with them, take them in the pool (without me having to hold a baby), play a board game, color, whatever. So I would like to be assured that if my child is sleeping in her crib, a bed made specifically for containing babies, that she is safe.

Or forget my older kids wants, or my own like showering, what about needs? My son was sick 2 months ago with a stomach bug and woke me up at 4am when he came into my room with a tummy ache. He spent the morning vomiting in a bucket on my bed. My baby wakes up just around 6am daily. My husband is long gone for work by then as he is an anesthesiologist and needs to be set up for the 1st surgeries of the day. So it was me alone with 3 kids, one of them puking every 30 minutes. So when my baby woke up, and I was holding my 4yo while he threw up, it's nice to know she's in a safe place until I can get to her.

You can arge untill you are blue in the face on this one and not get anywhere. I worked daycare, 4:1 ratio and still managed to keep the babies from spending extended amounts of time shaking the sides of their cribs and running around in them. You cannot really think, as you seem to be indicating, that I just sat and stared at a sleeping baby. Totally unrealistic. All I am saying is that I did everything in my power to limit standing, running, and shaking, and did not leave babies in cribs awake. Of course you are not goin to catch itimmediately every time, I think I have said that at least twice now. You cannot leave a bab y on achanging table for instance, but by the same turn I am not going to leave a child awake in a crib while I change all of them. I would stop between children, and move the child to a jumper, exersaucer ect. Agian, common sense here. Of course, in an emeregency situation, we all do thew best we can. I don't know why you persist in pushing to the absolute extreme. Common sense would dictate that parenting requires some flexibility, and that you cannot do exactly what you intend to all of the time, but I did my dead level best to never ever leave her awake and unattended in her crib. I just don't think it is safe. It has nothing to do with how many children I have or don't have. One child or 10 i still would not leave them alone in a crib if it could be helped, and if I was in a situation where I couldn't get there immediately, you can bet I would be there as soon as I could.

 

[justhat]

You can arge untill you are blue in the face on this one and not get anywhere. I worked daycare, 4:1 ratio and still managed to keep the babies from spending extended amounts of time shaking the sides of their cribs and running around in them. You cannot really think, as you seem to be indicating, that I just sat and stared at a sleeping baby. Totally unrealistic. All I am saying is that I did everything in my power to limit standing, running, and shaking, and did not leave babies in cribs awake. Of course you are not goin to catch itimmediately every time, I think I have said that at least twice now. You cannot leave a bab y on achanging table for instance, but by the same turn I am not going to leave a child awake in a crib while I change all of them. I would stop between children, and move the child to a jumper, exersaucer ect. Agian, common sense here. Of course, in an emeregency situation, we all do thew best we can. I don't know why you persist in pushing to the absolute extreme. Common sense would dictate that parenting requires some flexibility, and that you cannot do exactly what you intend to all of the time, but I did my dead level best to never ever leave her awake and unattended in her crib. I just don't think it is safe. It has nothing to do with how many children I have or don't have. One child or 10 i still would not leave them alone in a crib if it could be helped, and if I was in a situation where I couldn't get there immediately, you can bet I would be there as soon as I could.

Sadly, I think you are in the minority, specifically for daycare workers. At ours they routinely left babies in their cribs while they changed the one who woke up first, got them settled with a toy. Or if once was getting a bottle, and others woke up in a crib, they waited in the crib. And some of those tiny ones take their time with bottles. And our ratio was 1:3, so even better!

Some daycares also have separate nap rooms (much like Flounder's Reef on the DCL ships). No one sits in them, they are dark rooms specifically for napping babies. All 3 of my kids spent some time in the one in Flounder's Reef.

If the child is happy and not crying in the crib, why is it unrealistic to expect them to be safe if they are standing in a crib? When you purchase a crib they do not warn you that it is a hazard if your child is awake in a crib. They don't mention not allowing your child to stand in the crib (which is near impossible honestly). If I am expected to think a crib is safe for my baby to sleep in, I would hope that it could withstand them simply standing in it, or even some rail shaking as kids do just that.

The watching your child while she slept, you did say you did that. You said she was never alone and awake in the crib, that you monitored her while she fell asleep on every instance. And I know you later said that meant watching her on the video monitor, not sitting in her room, but either way, I am willing to bet most people don't stare at the monitor, if they even have video monitors, while their kids got to sleep.

And really, if we're saying it is dangerous for a baby to be awake in a crib, it's dangerous for their hip development to be in a jumper or exersaucer, gosh knows those walkers are death traps, Bjorns also with the hip development, and that old school playpen you mentioned, aside from pinched fingers in the hinges, I believe babies also got trapped in sides when they collapsed. Clearly that last one could be prevented from watching the baby, but should one be in the shower, clearly they aren't being watched all the time. And, aside from the archaic playpen, I used all those things, so I obviously don't have issues with them, but nor do I have issues with my kids being awake in their cribs.

 

[princessmom29]

Sadly, I think you are in the minority, specifically for daycare workers. At ours they routinely left babies in their cribs while they changed the one who woke up first, got them settled with a toy. Or if once was getting a bottle, and others woke up in a crib, they waited in the crib. And some of those tiny ones take their time with bottles. And our ratio was 1:3, so even better!

Some daycares also have separate nap rooms (much like Flounder's Reef on the DCL ships). No one sits in them, they are dark rooms specifically for napping babies. All 3 of my kids spent some time in the one in Flounder's Reef.

If the child is happy and not crying in the crib, why is it unrealistic to expect them to be safe if they are standing in a crib? When you purchase a crib they do not warn you that it is a hazard if your child is awake in a crib. They don't mention not allowing your child to stand in the crib (which is near impossible honestly). If I am expected to think a crib is safe for my baby to sleep in, I would hope that it could withstand them simply standing in it, or even some rail shaking as kids do just that.

The watching your child while she slept, you did say you did that. You said she was never alone and awake in the crib, that you monitored her while she fell asleep on every instance. And I know you later said that meant watching her on the video monitor, not sitting in her room, but either way, I am willing to bet most people don't stare at the monitor, if they even have video monitors, while their kids got to sleep.

And really, if we're saying it is dangerous for a baby to be awake in a crib, it's dangerous for their hip development to be in a jumper or exersaucer, gosh knows those walkers are death traps, Bjorns also with the hip development, and that old school playpen you mentioned, aside from pinched fingers in the hinges, I believe babies also got trapped in sides when they collapsed. Clearly that last one could be prevented from watching the baby, but should one be in the shower, clearly they aren't being watched all the time. And, aside from the archaic playpen, I used all those things, so I obviously don't have issues with them, but nor do I have issues with my kids being awake in their cribs.

I don't think you are understanding what i am saying.I never menyioned a video monitor. I didn't have a video monitor 7 years ago. I wasn't aware they made them at the time. What I said was thatIi never left her unattended. I always stayed in earshort or took the monitor and checked her frequently until she was asleep.If she was not laying down trying to sleep it either stayed or took her out of the crib. No, a child just standing in a crib, not trying to get out or running, shaking ect is not in any immediate danger, but will eventually get bored andstart doing so. They need to be removed sooner rather than later. In a split second, they can be over the rail and falling, and continuing to allow them to do this long term can cause damage to the crib and create a dangerous situtation. I am done trying to explian this to you and have you dissect everything I say for some sort of chink or loophold. I stand firm by what I am saying here and no amount of attemting to undermine it will change that. Simply stated:

I don't believe it is wise to leave a child unattended and awake in a crib. There is too much that can happen when no one is watching or listening. For me, it is a better safe than sorry thing. Our state daycare regulations back me on this. YMMV.

 

[justhat]

That's fine. Of course, since you didn't have a video monitor, your child could have stood up and sat back down many times while you were out of the room.

 

[princessmom29]

That's fine. Of course, since you didn't have a video monitor, your child could have stood up and sat back down many times while you were out of the room.

It's also possible that pigs might sprout wings and fly, but just about as likely when every time I checked on her she was laying down, or else I sat with her. You are really grasping at straws now. Goodbye!