Dream, veteran cruiser and 2 big disappointments

[disneyholic family]

The best solution is to find a cruise line with a policy that works for you. DCL worked for us because they allow 10 year olds to move up to edge. Now that bothers some people because they think 13 year olds don't like to be around 10 year olds. It worked for us and honestly it's the only reason weve stayed with dcl the last two years. I wont book a cruise if it doesn't fit my families needs. Now I have two cruises booked on other lines that work for us. There is another I would like to try, but doesn't fit our needs at this time.
I really don't think there is much you can do to change a cruise lines policy. They can't make everyone happy so find a cruise line that has kids clubs that your kids will like.

excellent advice!!

 

[mab2012]

That pretty much confirms what my theory has been... It is largely the PARENTS who wanted their snowflakes together. The snowflakes would rather be with their own kind.

This sentiment has been repeated several times (in different terms) in this thread, and I think it's pretty presumptuous.

When my kids were 5 and 8, I booked DCL specifically because they could be in the club together, and DCL was the only cruise line I could find where that was true at the time. And no, I was not "forcing" them to stay together, or look after one another. I knew perfectly well that if they couldn't go together, they would not go at all. It's not that they were generally inseparable; they were just relatively shy, introverted kids who at that age would have been well out of their comfort zones alone in a new environment. Had there been separate groups we might have talked them into trying it, but most likely it would have been a huge fight, and that's not my idea of a fun vacation.

Now, just a couple of years older, the situation has changed significantly. At this point they might be happier in split age groups, but that certainly wasn't the case a few years back, and I don't believe that mine is the only family ever to have faced this situation. Beyond siblings, consider extended family groups where cousins a couple of years apart genuinely *want* to spend time together, but would be forced apart by rigid age groups. Not at all uncommon on a cruise.

I don't disagree that 3-12 is a large age range and is not ideal for all families, but the alternative is not ideal for everyone either. Luckily there are plenty of cruise lines out there that do provide split age groups, for those who prefer that format.

 

[njmom76]

This sentiment has been repeated several times (in different terms) in this thread, and I think it's pretty presumptuous.

When my kids were 5 and 8, I booked DCL specifically because they could be in the club together, and DCL was the only cruise line I could find where that was true at the time. And no, I was not "forcing" them to stay together, or look after one another. I knew perfectly well that if they couldn't go together, they would not go at all. It's not that they were generally inseparable; they were just relatively shy, introverted kids who at that age would have been well out of their comfort zones alone in a new environment. Had there been separate groups we might have talked them into trying it, but most likely it would have been a huge fight, and that's not my idea of a fun vacation.

Now, just a couple of years older, the situation has changed significantly. At this point they might be happier in split age groups, but that certainly wasn't the case a few years back, and I don't believe that mine is the only family ever to have faced this situation. Beyond siblings, consider extended family groups where cousins a couple of years apart genuinely *want* to spend time together, but would be forced apart by rigid age groups. Not at all uncommon on a cruise.

I don't disagree that 3-12 is a large age range and is not ideal for all families, but the alternative is not ideal for everyone either. Luckily there are plenty of cruise lines out there that do provide split age groups, for those who prefer that format.

Agree. It is a wide range, but my extremely independent 8 year old was upset when I told her on another line she couldn't spend time with her 3 year old brother! Personally I thought she would want to be away from him (which I am perfectly fine with), but she said she wanted to be able to play with him.

 

[gotomu212]

That pretty much confirms what my theory has been... It is largely the PARENTS who wanted their snowflakes together. The snowflakes would rather be with their own kind.

No that wasn't what I said at all. It's the open houses, not people wanting their kids to be together, driving the current situation. There are only 2 clubs for 3-10 so if one is closed for an open house there is no choice but to put the kids together.

Before the open houses parents already had the choice to keep their kids together and you'd have a small handful that crossed over and didn't cause any problems (from all the times we saw the programming) but the chaos of having all the kids in one spot saw a marked increase when they started open houses.

Have you cruised on DCL since the regular open houses started?

 

[Dug720]

No that wasn't what I said at all. It's the open houses, not people wanting their kids to be together, driving the current situation. There are only 2 clubs for 3-10 so if one is closed for an open house there is no choice but to put the kids together.

Before the open houses parents already had the choice to keep their kids together and you'd have a small handful that crossed over and didn't cause any problems (from all the times we saw the programming) but the chaos of having all the kids in one spot saw a marked increase when they started open houses.

Have you cruised on DCL since the regular open houses started?

Kid free and LOVE IT!

 

[gotomu212]

Kid free and LOVE IT!

Then why would you be criticizing parents and kids and taking such a negative name calling (snowflakes and little angels) approach to something you've never used on the ships?

 

[MakiraMarlena]

with the buffet, it's often a sanitation thing.

As for the kids club, because there is now separated secured programming and open houses they no longer have separate space that can be dedicated to certain age groups.

I wonder if the large age range for the clubs is a result of the amount of open house time they have now? one or other of the club/lab was almost always closed to kids being dropped off to allow open access

Another change brought about when it was decided that there could be no adults other than youth counselors in secured programming (including parents, and caretakers of disabled children) so they now have open house where adults can come in - but there also needs to be an adult-free secured area for drop offs.

Open houses are not a staff reduction thing. It was a choice to close secured children's programming to adults and the need to offer an alternative to children who could not or would not attend without a parent or adult caretaker.

 

[cmph]

Got it. My kids are homeschooled so I've only been called crazy.

I'm sorry to go off-topic, but I totally LOL'd at that. I used to homeschool DD, and man alive - the judgey comments about that (which I won't repeat here) make the disboards judgey comments aimed at parents look incredibly tame.

 

[KT2038]

Just got off the Dream and even though we had a good time, two things stuck out. One- much more than the other, but as a veteran DCL cruiser, disappointed me.

First, This was my 15th DCL cruise, 3 kids 15,13 and 4. Been on all ships except the fantasy.

Palo brunch. When did they decide to have someone hold your plate and serve you while you chose things off the buffet table? Very awkward. I assumed it was to cut down on waste, but having a server stand there holding my plate while I said what I wanted was not comfortable. He doesn't know how much of something I want or maybe that I only wanted the green olives. Also the selection was much smaller than previous brunches. There was no bother with making a second trip, there wasn't the offerings as before.
To be honest, the main courses tasted no better than the main restaurants. I wouldn't do another brunch for $30.

The BIG complaint... Oceaneers Club. Who on earth decided it was wise to have 3-12 year olds all together? It was pure chaos, small kids got run over and my son who was 4 screamed bloody murder every time we got close to the club.

When my teens were preschool age, they had the ages split. 3-5, 5-7. 7-9, 9-12. Now, they are all thrown in together. Do they try to keep the little ones in Andy's room? Nope. Do they try to keep the big kids out? Nope. There is no way DCL conferred with educators, child experts or anyone else to know that random kids together with a 9 year spread is not a good idea.
Children with sensory issues or on the Autism spectrum would have a very difficult time in the club as the noise level and the lights would send them in sensory overload. The counselors pretty much just stood around watching kids run around.

The manager was very good with trying to help my son, but she admitted having the club and lab combined wasn't working. I asked why they changed it and she said a lot of parents complained that they wanted their kids to be together. The idea of forcing siblings to stay together is not conducive to children branching out and becoming independent as well and she said many parents try and force the older child to watch the younger child which is totally unfair to an older child.

We assume there is a cost cutting reason to this change of having them all together. Granted it's been a few years since my teens were in the club, but they should realize that mixing 3 year olds and 12 year olds is not a good idea. How many times I must have seen little ones playing with the monkeys or something in Andy's room and all of a sudden a group of 10 year boys (typically always boys) came running through jumping on everything, kicking over the monkeys and throwing them around while counselors were deep in conversation.

Just a really big disappointment as the club was always the highlight of my childrens' DCL experience.

Hi,

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience with us. I will pass your concerns on to management. As for my experience in Oceaneers, yes it is a big age gap but mostly it works. The big kids mostly tend to stay away from the little kids. We monitor them closely if they are playing a game to ensure that accidents don't happen.

Answering a few other comments... The problem with having some older kids being able to move down so siblings are together is where do we draw the line? Even now we have parents wanting their teens moved down to Edge or Oceaneers.

If your child is a self check then yes you can leave them at open house. Obviously there aren't as many Counselors to supervise and there are adults in the space. because they are self check they can still come and go as they please.

Most of us are trained teachers and want to spend time with your children. We understand what their needs are and how behaviour management works. We do the best we can within the model we have been given.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The problem with having some older kids being able to move down so siblings are together is where do we draw the line? Even now we have parents wanting their teens moved down to Edge or Oceaneers.

I think this could be solved by making sure that the activities available in the clubs are age specific. In the long run, older kids don't really want to be doing "baby stuff" and I think that the older kids will figure it out that being with their (younger) siblings isn't really that much fun.

Maybe have the "age down" limit be one level. But, as long as the child is still of the appropriate age for one of the kid club options, they can go down a level. But also have "once and out" policy for misbehavior if they are in a lower level club.

Sometimes it's hard to be the "mom police". But someone's gotta do it.

 

[KT2038]

I think this could be solved by making sure that the activities available in the clubs are age specific. In the long run, older kids don't really want to be doing "baby stuff" and I think that the older kids will figure it out that being with their (younger) siblings isn't really that much fun.

Maybe have the "age down" limit be one level. But, as long as the child is still of the appropriate age for one of the kid club options, they can go down a level. But also have "once and out" policy for misbehavior if they are in a lower level club.

Sometimes it's hard to be the "mom police". But someone's gotta do it.

The programs in the club cater for all ages. Obviously we mostly have preschoolers at little einsteins, but then lots of kids of all ages want to do Royal Ball or Plutos PJ Party. This is where choice comes in. If they don't want to do the program in the Club, the can go to the Lab.

Can you imagine if we had to ban a child from a club? Now THAT would cause an uproar!!

 

[PrincessShmoo]

The programs in the club cater for all ages. Obviously we mostly have preschoolers at little einsteins, but then lots of kids of all ages want to do Royal Ball or Plutos PJ Party. This is where choice comes in. If they don't want to do the program in the Club, the can go to the Lab.

Can you imagine if we had to ban a child from a club? Now THAT would cause an uproar!!

Just making suggestions.

And, I suppose, if a child were banned (especially for repeated misbehavior) then maybe the child (and the parents) will learn not to behave that way.

I know at the child care facility that I used for my two older kids, when I was working, there were ramifications for bad behavior. Including not being able to drop them off for X number of days (depending on the behavior problem).

 

[KT2038]

Just making suggestions.

I know. And I appreciate that. Until we find a way for it to work flawlessly it will never change.

 

[disneyholic family]

The programs in the club cater for all ages. Obviously we mostly have preschoolers at little einsteins, but then lots of kids of all ages want to do Royal Ball or Plutos PJ Party. This is where choice comes in. If they don't want to do the program in the Club, the can go to the Lab.

Can you imagine if we had to ban a child from a club? Now THAT would cause an uproar!!

in the secured club, what is the ratio of CMs to kids? is there a limit on the number of kids in there?
what about the little ones? how many CMs per 3 and 4 year olds?

.

 

[KT2038]

in the secured club, what is the ratio of CMs to kids? is there a limit on the number of kids in there?
what about the little ones? how many CMs per 3 and 4 year olds?

.

Hi, it's supposed to be 1:15 for 3-4 and 1:25 for 5-12

 

[gotomu212]

Hi, it's supposed to be 1:15 for 3-4 and 1:25 for 5-12

What happens if way more kids show up than were estimated when scheduling staff? Are others on call? I'm sure there is a normal ebb and flow and you aren't often surprised.

 

[FigmentSpark]

Hi,

I'm sorry you have had a bad experience with us. I will pass your concerns on to management. As for my experience in Oceaneers, yes it is a big age gap but mostly it works. The big kids mostly tend to stay away from the little kids. We monitor them closely if they are playing a game to ensure that accidents don't happen.

Answering a few other comments... The problem with having some older kids being able to move down so siblings are together is where do we draw the line? Even now we have parents wanting their teens moved down to Edge or Oceaneers.

If your child is a self check then yes you can leave them at open house. Obviously there aren't as many Counselors to supervise and there are adults in the space. because they are self check they can still come and go as they please.

Most of us are trained teachers and want to spend time with your children. We understand what their needs are and how behaviour management works. We do the best we can within the model we have been given.

Thanks for chiming in, KT2038. I didn't know most were trained teachers. That piece of information should be advertised, as it would make many parents feel their children are in better care than if the CMs were just staff who like children.

 

[JW9DVC]

Just got off the Dream and even though we had a good time, two things stuck out. One- much more than the other, but as a veteran DCL cruiser, disappointed me.

First, This was my 15th DCL cruise, 3 kids 15,13 and 4. Been on all ships except the fantasy.

Palo brunch. When did they decide to have someone hold your plate and serve you while you chose things off the buffet table? Very awkward. I assumed it was to cut down on waste, but having a server stand there holding my plate while I said what I wanted was not comfortable. He doesn't know how much of something I want or maybe that I only wanted the green olives. Also the selection was much smaller than previous brunches. There was no bother with making a second trip, there wasn't the offerings as before.
To be honest, the main courses tasted no better than the main restaurants. I wouldn't do another brunch for $30.

The BIG complaint... Oceaneers Club. Who on earth decided it was wise to have 3-12 year olds all together? It was pure chaos, small kids got run over and my son who was 4 screamed bloody murder every time we got close to the club.

When my teens were preschool age, they had the ages split. 3-5, 5-7. 7-9, 9-12. Now, they are all thrown in together. Do they try to keep the little ones in Andy's room? Nope. Do they try to keep the big kids out? Nope. There is no way DCL conferred with educators, child experts or anyone else to know that random kids together with a 9 year spread is not a good idea.
Children with sensory issues or on the Autism spectrum would have a very difficult time in the club as the noise level and the lights would send them in sensory overload. The counselors pretty much just stood around watching kids run around.

The manager was very good with trying to help my son, but she admitted having the club and lab combined wasn't working. I asked why they changed it and she said a lot of parents complained that they wanted their kids to be together. The idea of forcing siblings to stay together is not conducive to children branching out and becoming independent as well and she said many parents try and force the older child to watch the younger child which is totally unfair to an older child.

We assume there is a cost cutting reason to this change of having them all together. Granted it's been a few years since my teens were in the club, but they should realize that mixing 3 year olds and 12 year olds is not a good idea. How many times I must have seen little ones playing with the monkeys or something in Andy's room and all of a sudden a group of 10 year boys (typically always boys) came running through jumping on everything, kicking over the monkeys and throwing them around while counselors were deep in conversation.

Just a really big disappointment as the club was always the highlight of my childrens' DCL experience.

Gee. When was your last cruise. Been this way for awhile. As for the brunch. They want to keep it sanitary. You could have asked for those specific items. You didn't and made that choice.

As for the kids. We find it perfect. The rooms are large enough and work fine for most. Did you witness the trampling. If so did you speak up?

Each to own I guess.

 

[jahber]

Thanks for chiming in, KT2038. I didn't know most were trained teachers. That piece of information should be advertised, as it would make many parents feel their children are in better care than if the CMs were just staff who like children.

Interestingly, on Carnival they had screens outside the Camp Carnival showing each of the crew members in the kids club and listing their experience/training. Many of them were teachers and many also specifically had early childhood education degrees. It was so cool to see that they were actual professionals with experience with kids....as opposed to babysitters. Babysitter are great, too, of course, but given how much time my kids spend in he clubs, it's good to know there's a little more thought going into what they are doing than just keeping everyone alive until mom returns.

 

[volfan1978]

I did not have time to fully respond before. I am on the fence about the kids club but I lean towards the disney model. While I do think kids ten and older opt out, I think it is good for kids to be "pushed" around a bit. Kids are so overwhelmingly coddled today that I like the idea of kids having to deal with the idea that not everyone is nice all the time. I would not let my kids push other younger kids around-- I am not saying that, but I think that kids are not allowed to experience life anymore in a way that figures like Tom Sawyer did. I have both older and younger children and regret not exposing my older child more to the vagaries of existence. A few hula hoops taken away from him by older kids at a young age might have made him less soft.

While I agree that part of parenting is preparing your kids for a world where people are frequently selfish and discourteous, I respectfully and completely disagree that a vacation is the appropriate time to send your kid to the school of hard knocks. A family vacation should be a fun time to escape from the everyday grind and a time to make fond memories, not to have a 4 year old learn that some people just plain suck.