Dog help - quelling strong prey drive in GSD?

[luvavacation]

All my life I have had German Shepherds and cats. Never has there been a problem with prey drive between my old Shepherds and cats. Sure, they have all had a desire to herd the cats and children, but never just chase down a member of the pack (which the cats and humans are).

Well never say never!

I presently have a 16 month old female GSD. We have had her since she was 13 weeks old. Her prey drive is INTENSE, from day one! We have been to dog training classes, she does beautifully at "leave-it", does great with it at home, too, except for the cats. She will not "leave-it" with either of our 3 cats. It does not help that one cat in particular runs with great flourish past the dog (we think she enjoys teasing the dog!). She also enjoys herding my daughters' friends, but they are all older teens and at least the kids will follow my commands when it comes to ignoring the dog if she is herding them!

She also walks fantastically off-leash, until a squirrel appears, at which point she is gone and does not stop running until she realizes we are no longer around. I no longer work with her on off-leash walking since I am afraid she will bolt if something scampers on by! Which stinks, because ultimately I would like to do agility work with her, and I need to trust her off leash.

I am at a loss as to how to make her leave the cats alone. Our dog trainers have given great advice, and it all works well when in class, but once we are home, once she sees the cat, no command registers in her brain.

We aren't worried that her intent is to hurt the cats, she just likes to herd. When she does catch our Maine Coon (because he is so easy going and will just lay down and not care what the dog does) she just licks him all over until she feels the cat is good and clean. There isn't any biting involved, just a need to hold down the cat and lick it. Not sure if that is the same thing she wants to do with the squirrels out back though!

Other times, she sleeps with the Maine Coon, and lets the Maine Coon eat her food before she does. Since the Maine Coon doesn't put up a fuss, he isn't herded as often as the other cats that want no part in a chase. The cats were all fine with our other GSD that died last year, but she didn't want to herd them constantly either. I just know the cats all said, "Oh no, what is THIS" when we brought this puppy home!

So dog experts, how do I get my dog to stop her prey drive with our cats at least? I can live with her never being trusted off leash around squirrels, but it would be great if I didn't have to worry about her desiring to chase down every living thing that comes into my home!

I know there are other GSD owners here with awesome trained dogs, so hoping someone can help before I call BarkBusters and pay the big bucks for in-home training!

 

[jaminmd]

I've never had this problem with my GSD's but you can get some great advice here so I wanted to give you a bump.

My boy had trouble with other dogs which made walking him a nightmare if we got too close, which could mean across the street at a minimum. He went to obedience classes, I hired a trainer for private lessons & did clicker training but nothing helped. It was my fault for not socializing him enough with other dogs as a pup.

I eventually took him for training with the breeder (training GSD's for over 30 years) who showed me how to use a prong collar to correct him. I thought they were torture devices & was hesitant to use it. A lot of people don't like them but I can tell you for us it worked perfectly. He no longer lunges & he's great when walking. It took very few corrections for him to learn how not to act.

This was the only problem we had with him & he was perfect in every other way. He's a fast learner & is eager to please. He gets plenty of exercise, too, so that helps. He is the best dog I have ever owned.

Good luck.

 

[snarlingcoyote]

No advice just and something an agility trainer told me once - every dog is his/her own person. This dog may just not be a good "fit" for agility. Our GSD did meh-okay with agility, but really enjoyed the work. Her problem was that she wanted to boss the other dogs around, so she was a little distracted with what other dogs were doing, and that, in normal life, we give our GSD a lot of leeway - she knows who the bosses are, but she knows we respect her opinion and if she thinks she has a good reason for something, we'll at least explore her rationale. In the agility ring, this give-take does not translate well. So we did it, but never seriously, she just wasn't a great fit.

As for the cats. . .our GSD did beautifully with the cats until we brought home the Border Collie. Then it all went to heck in a handbasket. While the dogs behave while we're around and the cats have never been injured, they have turned up exceedingly wet. So we have a baby gate up at a midpoint in the house. One side is for cats, one side is for dogs. It's just a lot easier not having to worry about who's doing what or having a wet, disgusted, cat hop up on your lap full of upset about being forcibly bathed. Hearing your story, I think I get it now. The BC has a strong prey drive. The GSD's prey drive is pretty good, but under control, nothing like what you're experiencing.

If you find out what to do, update your post, please, because we never have been able to solve the riddle.

 

[goofy!]

All my life I have had German Shepherds and cats. Never has there been a problem with prey drive between my old Shepherds and cats. Sure, they have all had a desire to herd the cats and children, but never just chase down a member of the pack (which the cats and humans are).

Well never say never!

I presently have a 16 month old female GSD. We have had her since she was 13 weeks old. Her prey drive is INTENSE, from day one! We have been to dog training classes, she does beautifully at "leave-it", does great with it at home, too, except for the cats. She will not "leave-it" with either of our 3 cats. It does not help that one cat in particular runs with great flourish past the dog (we think she enjoys teasing the dog!). She also enjoys herding my daughters' friends, but they are all older teens and at least the kids will follow my commands when it comes to ignoring the dog if she is herding them!

She also walks fantastically off-leash, until a squirrel appears, at which point she is gone and does not stop running until she realizes we are no longer around. I no longer work with her on off-leash walking since I am afraid she will bolt if something scampers on by! Which stinks, because ultimately I would like to do agility work with her, and I need to trust her off leash.

I am at a loss as to how to make her leave the cats alone. Our dog trainers have given great advice, and it all works well when in class, but once we are home, once she sees the cat, no command registers in her brain.

We aren't worried that her intent is to hurt the cats, she just likes to herd. When she does catch our Maine Coon (because he is so easy going and will just lay down and not care what the dog does) she just licks him all over until she feels the cat is good and clean. There isn't any biting involved, just a need to hold down the cat and lick it. Not sure if that is the same thing she wants to do with the squirrels out back though!

Other times, she sleeps with the Maine Coon, and lets the Maine Coon eat her food before she does. Since the Maine Coon doesn't put up a fuss, he isn't herded as often as the other cats that want no part in a chase. The cats were all fine with our other GSD that died last year, but she didn't want to herd them constantly either. I just know the cats all said, "Oh no, what is THIS" when we brought this puppy home!

So dog experts, how do I get my dog to stop her prey drive with our cats at least? I can live with her never being trusted off leash around squirrels, but it would be great if I didn't have to worry about her desiring to chase down every living thing that comes into my home!

I know there are other GSD owners here with awesome trained dogs, so hoping someone can help before I call BarkBusters and pay the big bucks for in-home training!

Since you have tried the traditional trainer route, I think you may have better luck with a trainer who is familiar with strong herding instincts.

Your dog may never be an agility dog. However, she may excel at herding trials. You need to play to her strengths and allow her to do a job that her instincts are telling her to do. Instead of fighting it, work with it.

I would contact the local Border Collie association group and get the number of some great herding trainers. They would be your experts in controlling and training around strong herding instincts. It can be done. If you have ever been to a herding trial, it is amazing.

It might be that if you give your dog an outlet to exercise her instincts, she may be a bit mellower at home. Or not. You may just have to accept the fact that your dog will never be an off-leash dog on walks, when they are off duty.

It sounds like your dog is telling you it needs a job to do and it needs to play to her instincts

 

[It'sWDW4me]

So we have a baby gate up at a midpoint in the house. One side is for cats, one side is for dogs. It's just a lot easier not having to worry about who's doing what or having a wet, disgusted, cat hop up on your lap full of upset about being forcibly bathed.

OMG I'm STILL laughing about this!!!! I have a cat and can just picture the digusted cat face. As well as the unpleasantness of having a drool soaked kitty on your lap.

When I opened this thread I was thinking the dogs were hunting the cats down intent on doing them harm. While I'm sure the cats would disagree with me , I'm glad the dogs aren't hurting them.

OP - I have no suggestions but I hope you find a solution.

 

[luvavacation]

So where would I find herding specific trainers? Is it best to just go through the yellow pages under "trainers"? If putting her into herding would be better, I am all for it, she certainly does need something to do that plays upon her strengths!

There is a German Shepherd dog training club about 2 hours from my home that I went to once with my dog when she was about 8 months old. It was a really far drive which I do not relish doing if I don't have to. They were actually the ones that suggested agility training for her, and she did jumped the ring fence once and try to join in with the older dogs on the agility course! Of course, she was attempting to herd the bigger dogs, too, as she jumped around. It was quite funny, but at the time I was frustrated!

She does get a lot of exercise! Between our acre fenced yard and the daily walks, she is an active girl. Every day we work on fetch out back, and running around the yard, and if the weather is nice we do a 3 mile walk, but if it is yucky that walk is cut way down! We are surrounded by dogs on all sides, so there is lots of running the fence with whatever dog is out, and she has playdates with her doggy friends. Of course, she herds them, too, but at least the dogs let her know when she is being too intense. The cats just run to get out of the way, they just don't understand they need to stay and fight!

We do also have a barrier set up on the landing going upstairs so the cats have their own space, but my dog can jump it. She springs up 6 feet, no problem! She will even hang on our 6 foot fence if a squirrel is in the trees above her! Must break this prey drive!

With the direction of one the trainers, we did try a shock collar, which did nothing. The prey drive was so strong that she ignored the shock. Apparently discomfort is not a deterrent for my dog! The trainer was also surprised, and said we just need to keep working with her on her commands and eventually she would listen to us and not her prey drive. Yeah well that isn't working.

Perhaps I need to look into moving to a sheep farm for my dog. MIght be easier!

 

[stinkerbelle's mom]

I have found that when my GSD is being very "intense" about things that if I touch her or pet her that she will immediately calm and ignore the issue that is bothering her and focus on me. I also say to her "uh-uh" like you would say to a child. She will cry or whine a bit because she still wants to have chase, but she won't run off because she is now "connected" to my wants. Maybe if you try that around the cats then she will get used to them being around and won't feel so strong about giving chase-- same with the squirrels.

We have had to do this with squirrels, lights(anything shiney), ceiling fans, people and dogs walking by. If she starts to realize that they aren't a "threat" then maybe she will start to focus on your commands.

I have never tried this but a former coworker used to have an old soda can filled with rocks that she would shake at her dog when he wasn't responding to her commands to stop. It worked for her. My girl would probably just try to eat it. LOL

 

[Hercules10]

Have you tried kicking the crap out of the dog (or cats for that matter) when they do it?

I'm KIDDING!!!!!!

Honestly it sounds like it's all part of being a inquisitive pup To me GSDs aren't fully mature until at LEAST 2years. May be something she grows out of. My Shiloh used to chase after my idiot cat. I believe that cat would do a puppy fly-by just to taunt the dog. Now several years later the Shiloh could care less and she has given up on squirrels too. May just take time for her to get bored with it.

 

[sbell111]

Honestly, I'm not seeing the problem. Your dog licks your cat. Oh, well. Apparently, the cat doesn't mind or he would correct the dog's behavior.

Our old GSD used to do pretty much the same thing with our cat. The only difference is our cat wasn't cool with it. After a few bloody noses, the dog decided to stop bathing the cat.

 

[FredinFL]

How about taking the dog to a park infested with Canada Geese? She can chase them till exhausted, then at home maybe she won't herd so much?

 

[TheBigBadWolf]

See if you can find a Fred Hassen's "Sit Means Sit" dog trainer in your area, or attend one of their seminars. I've trained dogs for 30 years and have never experienced methods that worked so well. Rather than me write a book about these training methods, please google some of their videos and see for yourself. There are probably hundreds of videos on the net and thousands of people in the world using these training techniques. They work like magic!

http://www.sitmeanssit.com/blog/

 

[Pea-n-Me]

I don't think the "chasing the cat" issue will interfere with the dog's ability to do agility. I mean, how many cats are going to be hanging around the agility course?

I do agree that some dog's prey drives are stronger than others, but most dogs have them. All of my GSDs have had it - but funny thing, they all enjoyed sitting with cats, it's just when cats (or squirrels, what have you) run!

If you have done formal training and are practicing in an ongoing manner, I don't think you need a special trainer to help you with the prey drive issue. You just need to keep a *really* tight eye on the dog when you're out, especially if she's off leash. (It's always when you're not paying attention for that split second that they take off!) Correct when the dog's *thinking* about chasing something. I do the "EH" noise, as well. It gets my dog's attention and she knows I mean business. It also gets her looking at me. I then might say, "Leave the bunny alone". After six years, she KNOWS what that means. Unfortunately, it does take a good, long time before you get reliability. Your dog is still so young.

With that said, a few years back my dog went after something running in our yard. We figured out it must have been a cat when she came back with half her nose hanging off. It happens.

Remember not to encourage the dog at other times to chase things like squirrels, or even get the dog excited about something like the word, "SQUIRREL!". I know people that send their dog after geese sometimes, for fun, then sometimes they yell at the dog for chasing the geese. Never send mixed messages.

We did agility with two of our GSDs. One was a natural, and the other (my couch potato) lost interest after falling off the dog walk, lol. The one who loved it would never have been distracted by something like a cat. He was too focused (read: obsessed) with the course and his frisbee toss at the end. I'd say just work on that and I doubt it will be an issue. Always keep the dog looking at you in training. lf they're focused on you, they can't be looking at other things.

BTW, love seeing all the Shepherd people here!

 

[luvavacation]

Thanks all for the advice! The "Sit Means Sit" videos are something I will definitely take a look at later today. Sadly, there are no trainers in my area that are affiliated with that program, but perhaps I will find some good information from the videos.

Pea-n-me, I too love to see all the Shepherd owners! Having a GSD in my life since I was 2, I figured I was pretty good with training them and knowing how to help them reach their full potential. This one though, wow! She will be focused on me, we will be working on commands, and then a cat walks by, and she is gone after it in an instant. There is no hesitation, no warning of break in concentration, nothing. It would help if the cat would announce that it was coming downstairs so I could put my dog in a sit/stay, she is pretty good with that, but no, the cats have to be sneaky! Here's hoping she mellows out as she gets older!

And I loved the pictures you had up not long ago with your dog and the gerbil (or hamster?). That I don't believe will ever happen with this girl of mine! Like I said, she is so very different than any Shepherd I have ever known.

Thought I would attempt to put up a couple of pictures of her. She is a plush-coated GSD. I have never posted pictures before, I hope this works.

Enjoying the nice weather last fall...

Playing in the snow...

 

[jaminmd]

She's beautiful!

When the sun starts shining here again, I'm taking my boy out for updated pictures.

 

[LuvOrlando]

Beautiful woofie. I have had dogs and cats my whole life and have never seen a dog lick a cat, never-mind until its wet but it must be hilarious. In my house the cats have always ruled in all things, the look of indignation must be too funny.

When I read this I thought you were going to describe what a friends Huskies did to cats, killed 3 of them. I am relieved this isn't whats going on for you.

 

[sunnyday123]

My Newfie has a very high prey drive. She's almost 2 and it's just starting to work where I can tell her LEAVE IT and she does.

Make sure you correct each and every time. GSD's are smart-you're baby will get it, but every dog is different ( like someone else mentioned ) and sometimes different tactics work for different dogs.

Part of our problem is our Newf thinks she's a cat-she used to run to their tower with them in the morning and paw at it like she was scratching it-just like they did. They just sat and looked at her like she was an idiot. She still feels it's her duty to wash their ears, because obviously a cat cannot clean itself properly, and will break up a fight between the two that don't get along with a loud bark. She'll bring them one of her nasty, chewed up, stinky toys too, and if looks could kill....

 

[hereyago]

Dang, where i have been to miss this thread. I am all about GSD's. OP: your pup is beautiful!!!

Mine just turned 2 a couple months ago. We also have cat that we have had since the pup just turned 1.

Now, he will chase his cat brother, but his cat brother will also walk up to him when he is laying down as if to say>" well, are we going to do this", shake his nubb of a tail and start running. sometimes Delgado will go for it and sometimes he won't.

His cat brother will also scream every morning-like someone is trying to kill him scream because he wants to see Delgado, do their usual ritual of the cat walking around Delgado's legs and giving kisses.

The dog sliming the cat thing, yes he will wash the cat, but we know cats are funny about that and the cat will let him know when enough is enough, however, if the cat wants to bath our pup, the pup will just sit there and take it, it's hilarious.

Sometimes, I will see him really get into the herding "zone" and I will have to say no and then redirect him to something else.

I have been pondering the thought on how to teach him how to do certain things, like: have a towel on the fridge door that he can pull open,etc. Plus he likes to lay in my bathroom and it's small and he is like 100lbs and he will close the door and then cry that he can't get out.

As my DM has Parkinson's and even though she isn't at the stage of needing a wheelchair or that kind of help just now, I think Del could learn to be of assistance.