Dog Experts - Am I crazy for buying a CKC instead of an AKC puppy? UPDATE - New ?'s!!

[Magic Mom]

First, my experience w/ dogs - Admittedly, not alot. We want our dog to be an inside dog. And, honestly, I'm not a "romp in the yard" person. I like to take walks. But I'm not a rambunctious person. I like quiet. I don't let my kids get loud and crazy. I had always assumed we would get a golden retriever or a lab since they're supposed to be the best with kids. I still love the idea of a golden or a lab. But I'm not sure I'm ready for a golden or lab puppy. Also, they have the doggy smell. My DD doesn't like big dogs that jump.

Additionally, I'm not great w/ the discipline-thing. I'm kind of a softie, and, if I'm being perfectly honest w/ myself, lazy too.

Please, please don't get a puppy. The are everything you don't want. That and your inexperience with dogs and your admitted laziness are an epic failure waiting to happen.

I'm not taking get a dog likely. While I don't post a lot, I've been around the DIS for years - since 2005. I've learned I can't go to a pet store & that I need to find a reputable breeder. In fact, reading things other people have posted about dogs is probably why we don't yet have a dog! LOL! It's scared me too much!!

I've never purchased a dog before. Probably, if it were just me, I would be looking at adult rescue dogs. But I want my kids to have a puppy. I want the dog to be part of our family and live with us in our house. I want a sweet dog that wants to be around all 5 (6 including the cat) of us. I want a dog that's just as happy lying on the couch watching TV w/ me as he is wrestling w/ my DS and letting my DD brush his hair.


You can have all of that with an adult dog. Those things aren't born in a puppy they are trained. And if you do it wrong, you end up with a barking hyper, unhappy, ill tempered, ill behaved adult dog. Go to a reputable rescue...not a shelter. Tel the rescue what your lifestyle is like, what you are looking for and let them evaluate the dogs they have for you.

The dog in my signature is a mutt from a rescue. He is patient beyond belief. He doesn't bark. He has perfect house manors. he isn't a runner, he stays in the yard. If he has something in his louth and we touch it, he drops it immediately. He was 2 when we got him.



I know all kinds of people who have family dogs, and I know we shouldn't be acquiring a dog "because everybody else has one". However, I'm sure they didn't put as much thought into what kind of dog and from where as I have!

I really think a Keeshond is the right dog for us, all things considered. Again, the only thing I'm concerned about is the hair. I took everything into consideration I thought - our toddler, our cat, our daily lives, the type of dogs I like, the types of dogs DH likes, the types of dogs DD doesn't like...

The particular breeder I'm looking at raises Keeshonden. She seems sincere. She is probably best characterized as the "hobby breeder". Before we purchase, we're going to look at her puppies (& the mom & dad) next week. The price is high. But that actually makes my DH feel better... his philosophy is "you get what you pay for". The only thing that's making me question the price is that her price is almost as high an AKC puppy. She does not sell to everyone. She had questions for us too.

I know we could rescue a puppy from a shelter. But we've had bad luck when we've rescued dogs. I just want to know we've gotten the best puppy for our kids, you know?

I guess when I posted, I wanted everyone to say, "No! CKC puppies are great! No worries!" LOL! I guess now I'm asking... can a CKC puppy be just as a good as a AKC puppy? Is it worth paying a high price to get a good, wellbred puppy that is not AKC?

Okay, so, w/ all this... any more suggestions/comments/advice/critique? I really do appreciate everyone responding & I'm reading/considering everything being said.

If you do get a puppy, please be aware that it's a lot of work...a lot.

 

[Wendy31]

This part truly stuck out to me. And this isn't a put down, you were honest when you wrote it, but: if you are going to have this mind set when you get a dog, don't get one. seriously. I don't care what kind of dog it is, if the owners are going to be lazy with training, discipline, that dog is going to walk all over you and dogs should not be the alphas over the family.

That is fair. I realize that, in order for this to be successful & for us all to be happy, I'm going to have to step it up.

You sound like a nice person, but this concerns me a little.

I'm sorry. Our house sold. The owners of the house we were buying were not moving out for almost another month. We moved into my parents' basement den. And, again, my mom is a strict "no pets in the house". So our cat stayed on their back patio mostly which was off the den. Thankfully, it was October, and wasn't hot, or that wouldn't have been a solution. I'm not quite sure what else we could have done. It did make me sad.

I just wanted to add:

You mention possibly puppy growing up with your youngest-who right now is like a puppy.

It can be a beautiful thing for a child to grow up like that with a dog. when my DD was a little over 2 months old, we had to put my dog to sleep-cancer. DH at the time HAD to have a puppy for DD to grow up with. Our puppy was a month younger then my DD.

He was teething, she was teething, she was in diapers, he was trying to learn how to house train, it isn't for the weak.

Some people have this "idea" of what puppyhood or getting a dog is like, seeing the closeness in a movie, but it's going to be some effort of work.

I know! The adorable baby in a pile of a puppies is not really reality.

Our youngest will be 2 in July.

I thought, while we had the baby gates up & the house pretty much baby-proofed, it would be a nice time to add a puppy.

You can have all of those things with a young dog as well.

If he's chewing everything or peeing all over the place, he has too much freedom. (Haven't you seen these types of threads before? )

Who? The baby or the puppy?

Some links for you. There are a zillion others you can find by googling Toddlers and Puppies. (Your youngest child is my main concern.)

Good luck!

http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/toddlersndogs.html

http://www.terrificpets.com/articles/102285465.asp

http://www.gazettenet.com/2010/06/09/terrible-twos?SESS0f2453821d094969e39946c73f44acdb=gnews

http://theparentingpassageway.com/2009/08/26/help-my-puppy-is-biting-my-toddler/

http://www.amazon.com/Childproofing...ef=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306174409&sr=8-1-spell

Thank you for those links! One of the articles mentioned some breeds good w/ young children like the Bearnese Mountain Dog & a Mastiff - both of those breeds really appeal to me, but I decided they were too big for us. Those are both really my "type" of dogs.

I was surprised that one article mentioned an Akita Inu because I have not read good things about the Akita temperament.

I will definitely get the Childproofing your Dog book! Thank you!! We will be traveling to Florida in a couple of weeks... that will be my road book!

Have you read anything about the Keeshond? I really liked that have been bred for centuries as strictly companion dogs - no hunting/guarding instincts. They just seem really gentle.

Our youngest is my main concern too (and our cat). I do plan on supervising the puppy and the toddler. We are trying to teach him gentle petting w/ the cat.

One of the articles talked about how sharp puppy teeth are & how puppies play w/ each other. I'm a little concerned that a puppy will see our toddler as another puppy.

 

[jrmasm]

I'm a little concerned that a puppy will see our toddler as another puppy.

That is very likely. Small humans resemble squeaky toys.

 

[onelilspark]

You know I couldn't find a single rescue organization willing to let me get a puppy last year? ...because we don't have a yard. Opened up my house, my life, everything...only to be told no. If I'm being honest, it drives me crazy when I see people say "oh well, on paper you're going to be a terrible dog owner." Because guess what? My dog is well behaved (top of his class in puppy obedience!), well exercised, healthy, and very much loved. If you're willing to put in the time up front, it will pay off in a year.

And that means getting up in the middle of the night because your puppy's bladder isn't big enough to make it through the night. Going for long walks if you don't have a yard. Yelling at your puppy constantly--so much so that you feel like a rotten person. Enrolling in training courses.

It's not easy, it's not cheap. But just because "on paper" you might not be the perfect owners doesn't mean you shouldn't get a dog. You're not going into this lightly, you're obviously giving it a lot of thought. Oh...and we wanted a puppy (and not an adult dog) because we wanted him or her to grow with us. We also wanted to be able to train them from day 1, not to have to fix bad habits.

Edit: we have a Maltese/Poodle mix. He's all of 13 pounds Obviously I'm no help on the CKC/AKC and the breed you asked about. Just wanted to chime in and say that you're not a terrible person for wanting to get a dog for the reasons you have.

 

[Wendy31]

I don't think I'm the right person to ask about AKC registration validity. Although my own dog's mother is AKC registered (as is my dog) (the father is Canadian-registered), that fact was not a driving force behind my selection of my breeder. I've heard too many horror stories that anyone who pays the fee can AKC register a dog a or a litter (even puppy mills who somehow doctor ownership and pedigree).

Once you eliminate AKC registration as a proving point, the next thing to go to in my opinion is the dog's parents' history in other proving areas that are not possible to doctor or falsify, like long term breed club memberships in good standing, show records, and records from other competitive pursuits, like competition obedience, agility, etc. Once these circumstances can be proved, they also reinforce other claims about your potential dog, like health or temperament. Evidence of health checks on parents (and further back in the line) is another important marker. Eventually, you develop a matrix of info that can be proven or cross checked, and you gain comfort that way.

For some breeders, once you eliminate AKC registration as an important marker, they have nothing else to prove they are who they say they are or that they have quality healthy puppies to offer. This probably includes most puppy mills, back yard breeders and hobby breeders (although I'm not sure, what is the difference between a back yard breeder and a hobby breeder?)

I don't think any of this, or anything else that was said on this thread, would mean that a reputable breeder (the way I define it) would never place a puppy with a family like yours, I think it would mean that it might take a little longer to find the right match, and they might ask tougher questions, or put terms and conditions in your contract about continued contact with them. Annoying and frustrating, but hopefully OK in the end.

As an additional thought, since you have also mentioned the possiblity of an older dog, many breeders I know I very plugged into the rescue and adoption scene for their breed. They often know of adolescent or young adult dogs that are the result of very high quality breeding but for some reason are not placed with homes (example, thought the dog was a show prospect but turned out not to be, dog surrendered back totthe breeder under contract because the original family could no longer keep it for some reason (which you would investigate!), etc.) Finding a great dog through that type of scenario might work for you as well.

Jane

From what I've read (and, again I will fully admit I'm new to this!), a backyard breeder is breeding for profit & will have lots of litters each year & will not necessarily have enough/proper history or documentation of the dogs. A hobby breeder is breeding for the love of the breed and will only have 2-3 litters/year and knows his/her dogs.

Now, I own one dog and he was the first dog we've ever had. One of the things that you said above, raises HUGE red flags about the breeder and your ability to train a dog. It's the same thing, you say that since one of your children is still in the "puppy stages" himself that it's the perfect time to get a dog. And that couldn't be further from the truth. When we were looking for a puppy all of the breeders we spoke to were very firm in not placing a puppy in a home with a child in diapers (DS was just out of diapers when we started looking). As you said yours takes his/hers off and has accidents around the house. It is VERY difficult to house train a dog when someone is doing that or even going in their diaper all the time. It confuses the dog as they can't understand why they can't go in the house, when someone else can. Remember a dog's sense of smell is MUCH more sensitive than a humans. I understand your willingness to get a dog and properly train one, but I really believe that your situation is not the proper place to house train a puppy right now, and your breeder's inability to see this or even ask the proper questions is alarming. House training is serious business and in your situation, sounds like you're setting up yourself for failure there. I'd wait until your youngest is out of diapers before getting a dog.

Hmm... that is something to consider. But we can't be the first people to consider having both a puppy and a toddler?

I'm afraid you all are now believing that I have a naked toddler running around the house peeing everywhere. One of his favorite tricks is taking off his diaper. And, occassionally (not even often), he will pee in the floor before we can get his diaper back on. He doesn't even do it every day.

If you do get a puppy, please be aware that it's a lot of work...a lot.

I'm afraid I've painted a really unflattering picture of myself.

I'm not probably very consistent. I'm a softie. I'm not the world's best parent. I probably wouldn't be the world's best dog owner. But I do love my kids. And our cat - just differently from how I love my children. And I would love a dog. And I would take care of it to the very best of my ability. I wouldn't get rid of it.

 

[Wendy31]

You know I couldn't find a single rescue organization willing to let me get a puppy last year? ...because we don't have a yard. Opened up my house, my life, everything...only to be told no. If I'm being honest, it drives me crazy when I see people say "oh well, on paper you're going to be a terrible dog owner." Because guess what? My dog is well behaved (top of his class in puppy obedience!), well exercised, healthy, and very much loved. If you're willing to put in the time up front, it will pay off in a year.

And that means getting up in the middle of the night because your puppy's bladder isn't big enough to make it through the night. Going for long walks if you don't have a yard. Yelling at your puppy constantly--so much so that you feel like a rotten person. Enrolling in training courses.

It's not easy, it's not cheap. But just because "on paper" you might not be the perfect owners doesn't mean you shouldn't get a dog. You're not going into this lightly, you're obviously giving it a lot of thought. Oh...and we wanted a puppy (and not an adult dog) because we wanted him or her to grow with us. We also wanted to be able to train them from day 1, not to have to fix bad habits.

Edit: we have a Maltese/Poodle mix. He's all of 13 pounds Obviously I'm no help on the CKC/AKC and the breed you asked about. Just wanted to chime in and say that you're not a terrible person for wanting to get a dog for the reasons you have.

Thank you! I know everyone means well, but I was starting to feel really bad.

And saddened at how my parents' (really my Mom's) dog history is coloring people's opinion of me.

I do realize that some people should not have dogs - just like some people should not have children.

But I think even if our dog is a mess because we totally fail at training (which is why I looked a long time for a forgiving, happy breed), we will still provide a good home.

I'm not my mom.

Edited to Add - I do want to reiterate that I appreciate everyone's advice & suggestions. It's given me a lot to consider & rethink.

 

[Elianor]

I found my dog through a rescue organization that did personality profiles on it's dogs and then registered them on petfinder.com. He is a German Shepherd mix, solid black and about 75 pounds. He has turned out to be both blessing and challenge to our family.

He was the same age as our daughter when we got him (3) and they have romped all over the house together. When our son came along two years later, he would lay at the foot of his bouncy seat and across the doorway of the kids' bedroom "guarding" them. There have been wonderful moments like the ones you find in the movies (George pulling our daughter down this hill this past winter in the first snowfall for one!)

The nice thing is that although he has plenty of puppy attitude, he received enough basic training before he came to us that we were (as novice owners) able to build upon those skills to keep it working in our family.

George pulls madly on the leash so we've had to work around that. HE also barks in the middle of the night and wakes the entire household if a squirrel comes within 30 feet of the house. He has accidents during thunderstorms and I finally had to buy a carpet cleaner to deal what I have come to expect as an inevitable mess.

Rescue dogs don't have to have issues. You need to find someone who deals with dogs and knows how to profile them. George *loves* our cat, who is 17 years old and completely indifferent to him. It's about finding the right fit for your family and its possible to find a rescue in many breeds that fits your needs.

Have you also considered who will keep your dog when you decide to go back to Disney? We weren't able to travel for a while after we got George because he'd been abandoned and has separation issues (something that can happen in many puppies). Do you have a reputable kennel? Do you know where to have training classes for your dog?

We are a fairly laid back family too, but you have to be the alpha with a dog or you will not have a positive experience. Dogs are pack animals (not people) and their motivations to do things are different.

I think people who want dogs are the best ones to get them, but only if they are willing to really commit to what it will entail.

All in all, I am glad for our first time out, I got a slightly older dog with basic training already in place or we would have been regretting our decision within days...and in our family, pets are family until death do us part.

 

[onelilspark]

We did the Pet Smart Obedience classes. Both the Puppy class (if you go with a "young adult" dog, they have a beginner's class too) and the Intermediate classes. I highly suggest them. They've made all the difference in the world since this was the first dog we had since the dogs we had grown up with.

 

[janey99]

From what I've read (and, again I will fully admit I'm new to this!), a backyard breeder is breeding for profit & will have lots of litters each year & will not necessarily have enough/proper history or documentation of the dogs. A hobby breeder is breeding for the love of the breed and will only have 2-3 litters/year and knows his/her dogs.

Thanks for clarifying. I hate to say it, but I think a hobby breeder and a back yard breeder are probably the same thing. Two-3 litters a year is A LOT. How many dams do they have on their property? Do they just keep breeding the same dogs over and over? They love the breed so much they want to flood the world with them? If not, what is it exactly that they "love?" What does that mean, they "know their dogs?"

To be clear, I'm not asking you the answers to these questions! I know you are researching, and these are the questions you should be asking yourself, to help detemine the legitmacy of your seller and the likelihood that you will ultimately get a healthy dog that's appropriate for you.

Jane

Edited to add - I have always had puppies and toddlers - it can happen and it not a problem for many breeders! My DS (now 12, almost 13) was about 7 months old when we got our second boxer, who died Halloween, 2009). That DS was about 2.5 when we got our other dog, a rescue pitbull. My DS now 3 was 2 when we got our current boxer. Everybody got potty trained without too much grief!

 

[Elianor]

Thank you! I know everyone means well, but I was starting to feel really bad.

And saddened at how my parents' (really my Mom's) dog history is coloring people's opinion of me.

I do realize that some people should not have dogs - just like some people should not have children.

But I think even if our dog is a mess because we totally fail at training (which is why I looked a long time for a forgiving, happy breed), we will still provide a good home.

I'm not my mom.

Oh, I don't really think anyone wants to make you feel bad! I guess, (at least for me) getting a dog was something I really really wanted for my kids too. I think people are just worried that you are making the choice based upon maybe how the dog looks or how you think the breed will be rather than looking for a dog that will be a good fit for your needs.

I personally wanted a corgi. I wanted a Pembroke welsh corgi puppy in a fawn and white coat. Sigh. I still want a corgi. But, I have kids and they are herding dogs that have a tendency to nip at heels. Also, I have a full time job and just am not home enough to puppy train.

George was in need of a foster home, so we fostered him for 2 months before adopting him formally. He came to us already tested out on cats and kids, and with all his shots and health tests. He was also housebroken.

We don't have a fenced yard either, so he gets three walks a day outdoors rain or shine. (Or snow, which the darn dog adores for some bizarre reason.)

Truthfully, I would have failed with a puppy. I dont' have the discipline to do the kind of intense training George must have had as a puppy to make him such a good dog now. I always recommend to people that they look at petfinder now because the search options can screen out animals that are not appropriate to your family's needs (cats, kids, etc.)

George might have been put down if we hadn't adopted him. He was already being housed at a shelter when I went and picked him up. Also, the organization we fostered him with did an interview and a house visit to check out me, the family, and the house before letting us take the dog. I also had to fill out an application, pay a fee and sign a contract.

It's just such a big commitment and since so many animals end up abandoned or families unhappy or resigned with poorly managed pets, people on the boards here are just trying to make sure you get the best result for your family!

Please don't let it hurt your feelings...if they didn't want a good outcome for you they wouldn't bother to respond at all!

 

[mjkacmom]

OP, the puppy will nip at your toddler, you, and the other kids. A few of my friends had puppies recently, and even my kids were so done with them in 10 minutes - they're not fun! They hurt! Between the sharp teeth and the sharp nails, puppies and young children do not mix well. Sure, you train them not to bite and jump, but it takes time.

Puppies can't be left out of your sight for a minute, and you have to watch them even more than a toddler (because of housebreaking). What do you do when the puppy is barking in her crate in the middle of the night, waking up the todder?

The kids kept asking what kind of dog we were going to get, and I told them "a good dog," because breed was a lot less important to me than temperment.

 

[NaLisa]

Okay.

If you are bound and determined to try (and I really hope I'm wrong with my feeling of above) my suggestion would be a Beagle, they aren't too big or too small, they aren't (on the whole) an overly jumpy breed, but you would have to exercise the dog. They need to play. Regardless of any dog you choose,you are going to have to walk them and play outside with them.

I want to echo the sentiments about a Beagle and share my family's experience. We adopted a 3-year-old female Beagle from a rescue group specializing in Beagles four years ago. After researching breeds, I was certain that we wanted a Beagle but I too thought I wanted a cute little puppy. My DDs were 4 & 2 at the time and my cat was 14. After getting all the details about my family, the woman who ran the rescue group suggested a young adult dog instead. She made a perfect match and we couldn't be happier. My children bonded with our doggie immediately and she with them. We can take her anywhere and she gets along with everyone, including dogs and cats. We didn't have to suffer through housetraining, chewing up things, etc. The woman we adopted her from also provided a free obedience course as part of the adoption.

I cannot imagine our family without our Beagle, but had I gotten a puppy or a different breed, I'm afraid our experience wouldn't have been such a great one.

You've received some great advice here and I hope you continue to research before making such an important decision.

 

[Dax]

OP, the puppy will nip at your toddler, you, and the other kids. A few of my friends had puppies recently, and even my kids were so done with them in 10 minutes - they're not fun! They hurt! Between the sharp teeth and the sharp nails, puppies and young children do not mix well. Sure, you train them not to bite and jump, but it takes time.

Puppies can't be left out of your sight for a minute, and you have to watch them even more than a toddler (because of housebreaking). What do you do when the puppy is barking in her crate in the middle of the night, waking up the todder?

The kids kept asking what kind of dog we were going to get, and I told them "a good dog," because breed was a lot less important to me than temperment.

THIS seems to be the way to go....

 

[airhead]

THIS seems to be the way to go....

 

[Wendy31]

You know the people who stand at the bend of the road & warn oncoming drivers, "The bridge is out ahead!"? There's always one driver that's like, "Really? I'm gonna go see for myself!" And then off he goes.... and sure enough, the bridge is out & over the ravine he goes.

And then there's the DIS threads where everyone in the thread is telling the OP one thing, & the OP is like, "Well, I'm gonna go do my own thing."

Yeah, I've always wondered at people like that....

And I never thought I'd be one.



And I'm not saying that I will be that person.

I do know the following:

Our family wants to add a dog to our family.
I think a Keeshond is a good breed for our family.
I think we've found a breeder - I'll know more after we meet.
I think we want a puppy. I know it will be hard.
I'm a bit worried about our toddler, our cat, & my ability to be a good trainer.
I'm worried we're paying too much for a dog that is not AKC, but I think the dog will be wellbred, well-loved, and socialized.

And I'm not leaving this thread. But I really do need to get some stuff done today.

Edited to Add - I've never had a thread on the DIS that has gone on so long...

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Wendy, don't feel badly. You asked for opinions and people are trying to share their wisdom and knowledge with you to help you make a good decision. Nobody's been mean and nobody thinks you're a terrible person. And ultimately, it's up to you what you decide to do. I think that most, if not all of us, will be there later enjoying your pictures and helping you with whatever comes up. It's just a discussion!

Think of it this way. I don't know you but I do know you're a mother of three. So you've got plenty of parenting experience, right? What if someone came on here looking for advice on having a baby because she thinks babies are cute and fun, but had little to no experience with babies and a host of what most people would consider "red flags" to having a baby? What would you say? I imagine you'd tell them how much work babies are, how much they cost, how little time you have for yourself, etc, and maybe share that your gut sense is that they wait for the right time and the right resources, etc. It's essentially the same thing here for people with dog experience. That's all.

If you want to get a puppy, just know that you'll have your work cut out for you and there will come a day when you likely say, "now I know what they were talking about", lol. It doesn't make it wrong. If you go that route, just do yourself and the dog a favor by fully preparing by reading as much as you can and not letting the puppy run wild.

I brought my twins home from the hospital having two grown German Shepherds in the house who were great dogs but had very little kid experience. We made it work by having rules for everyone and complete vigilance when it came to both the dogs and the kids. My kids were NEVER allowed to disrespect the dogs, and vice versa. The dogs died and we got a puppy when the kids were 6. We tried to adopt a German Shepherd from a rescue, but, despite a lifetime of experience with the breed (including several puppies) and the ideal home, they would not adopt to us until the kids were 7, so we wound up with a puppy instead (she is in my signature).

All I can say is I worked my tail off keeping everyone safe and happy. I even remember once, about two weeks into it, thinking, "what have I done?" I was so overwhelmed. Even though my kids had grown up with two GSDs, we went over the rules ad nauseam, the vet read them the riot act about the dog, etc, kids will be kids and I often had to run interference so accidents didn't happen and bad habits didn't form (like running with and letting the puppy bite - a big no no). I literally had to teach the dog how to carry a soccer ball around in her mouth so she didn't nip (something herding dogs do with kids). It took literally years of training and hard work to get to the point where I was fairly certain nothing bad was going to happen (and I never count on that 100% as I firmly believe that any dog can bite given the right circumstances). She is actually more than wonderful with children. But had she been with someone else I'm fairly certain she may have wound up at the pound or tied in a back yard somewhere because of her reactive personality to other dogs (which, again, with years of training and desensitization has now calmed considerably, but again, very hard work and this was NOT apparent as a puppy).

It sure would have been a heck of a lot easier if we'd gotten the adult dog I'd wanted. I mean, I love my girl to pieces but man, she has given me a run for my money.

 

[daisax]

To clarify, a "hobby breeder" is generally someone who devotes a great deal of time to dogs as a hobby. Most of the folks at Westminster are hobby breeders. They have actual real life jobs, but on weekends they're at dog shows, the way some people are on the golf course. Weekday evenings they're training, or going to club meetings, just as other people are going to Rotary meetings or other social organizations.

They study pedigrees and have watched generations of dogs grow up over the years. They'll drive 800 miles to a show to see a dog that doesn't show in their area that might be a possible future choice as a stud dog for one of their girls. They'll already know and have seen that dog's parents and grandparents or at least spoken with people who have. They'll know what diseases tend to run in different families, and through extensive networking in person and through the internet will have an idea of who practices what they consider ethical breeding practices, including important health testing. They will have debated these issues ad nauseum.

A back yard breeder, on the other hand, is someone who says "Your dog wasn't neutered? My girl's in heat -- bring him over and I'll give you a free puppy!" Just throw 'em in the back yard and let nature take its course.

The confusion comes in because a hobby breeder typically doesn't have extensive kennels. Dogs usually live in the house and play in the yard. So you might not know how to distinguish a hobby breeder from a back yard breeder until you speak to them, and the hobby breeder will talk your ear off about the dogs and be able to answer any question you have... and will ask you a ton of questions. Money will be the least of it. A back yard breeder will just tell you how much.

Commercial breeders are those who breed dogs like livestock. There are back yard breeders who also breed too many dogs too close together for too many litters. And, sadly, there are hobby breeders who overbreed and breed carelessly, too. That's where doing homework comes in, and references from people who have puppies from the breeder you're interested in.

No decent breeder will just ship a puppy to a total stranger in exchange for a check or money order. You want to get a pup from a breeder who cares where that puppy goes, and feels an obligation to give it the best possible start in life, and will take it back at any point for the rest of its life.

 

[BCV513]

Wendy, have you looked into Keeshond rescue groups? There might be a waiting list, but they can match you with a dog that's a good fit for your life. I've done some work with the New England Sheltie Rescue and they're great. The only problem is that there aren't that many shelties to go around.

 

[kacaju]

I've always like the bigger, steadier breeds - like German Shepherds, Golden Retrievers, Labs, even Saint Bernards. I also like Beagles. And I think the wolf-look breeds are gorgeous!

We want our dog to be an inside dog. And, honestly, I'm not a "romp in the yard" person. I like to take walks. But I'm not a rambunctious person. .

Look into a smooth collie. Collies make WONDERFUL family pets. they are not overly strong like the retievers and Shep. My 11 year can walk our collies yet her friend could never take her golden out for a walk by herself. PM me if youd like more info
Smooth collies are short hair collies

 

[FredinFL]

Wendy, I don't know you and wouldn't hazard to guess that you would be a bad dog owner. I'm just going on what you've said about your past and what you want. The main thing to keep in mind is that no dog is perfect, they are all a lot of work and AKC, CKC, KFC, whatever the lineage is, there is no guarantee.

I understand wanting a dog NOW, you need to determine if now is what's best, or if waiting till the baby is out of diapers is best. Don't spread yourself too thin.

I wish you the best of luck both in choosing your pup and raising him/her.