Does anyone think this situation is unfair?

[brittanyherndon]

I might have an unpopular opinion but I don't think it's fair to take away the SE student's honor. This child probably worked just as hard if not harder to get these grades. Maybe the other NHS members could learn to have a little compassion.

Now, I understand the whole class rank thing b/c of scholarships and such but that shouldn't take away someone graduating with honors.

I, also, agree with Loreli. Your sister needs to stay faraway from this.

I totaly agree with you. I was SE and I have to say I would stay up untill 3am studying every night to get the grades I got. If anyone cares I got As and Bs and my HS GPA was 3.5

 

[dzorn]

How does anyone know if she did or did not pass the proficency test? This is a law suit waiting to happen.

Denise in MI

 

[Pigeon]

The student isn't an NHS member. My cousin told me that NHS rules vary from chapter to chapter. The chapter that the school is under doesn't induct special ed students. My cousin reviewed a current class ranking with the school's guidance counselor a few days ago. She said that in the top 25 the special ed is ranked 11th. Most of the students in the top 25 are NHS members and my cousin has said that even a few students who aren't in NHS are upset about the girl's ranking. The issue is more with class rankings.

These parents should get a grip and be happy that their kids don't have learning disabilities and also be happy that this girl who does have them has been able to overcome them. I'd tell the parents to take a flying leap.

Seriously, if the parents can waste a nanosecond on this kind of mean-spirited stuff, their kids have more problems than class rankings to worry about.

 

[tasha99]

No, I believe under the ADA laws, they provided him with appropriate support for his dyslexia. He was exempt from being graded on spelling, and completing the exam in a given time. I don't believe I said anywhere, that he was exempt from any classes, whatsoever.

I'm a really decent speller, but I'd be the first to say, it in no way involves any higher intelligence. Basically, they took the pressure off of dh. By taking away the pressure, he demonstrated he could construct a rational essay. There's nothing wrong with his reasoning ability. He just can't spell for beans. I don't understand why this is so hard to comprehend.

It isn't hard to comprehend if you aren't completely obtuse about what special education is. Some posters here would prefer to see a math genius work fast food if he or she can't spell or write very well. Some of the attitudes here just astound me--it's as if they're saying, "Let's limit people and limit our society's potential by telling people that if they have a road block in one area, they aren't capable of doing anything."

(Oh, and btw, the sixth grade level isn't that low. I read posts here all the time that are written at lower than a sixth grade level. The news is written at that level, and newspapers at the eighth grade level. And there are LOTS of people working on higher degrees who didn't score so well on the verbal part of the GRE--they're generally studying math.)

 

[FireDancer]

It astounds me that this method of weighting hasn't been legally challenged. I know when my sister worked in university admissions, they threw out the GPAs from schools that used those weighting methods and recalculated on their own.

It didn't effect your actual GPA, it was only used for class rankings. If person A had a 3.5 and took level 3 and 2 classes, person B had a 3.5 and took all level 2 classes, and person C had a 3.5 and took level 1 and 2 classes we would all have a 3.5 but the GPA would be weighted to determine where we fell in class ranking. To be on the honor roll you had to have only level 2 and 3 classes. In all of those cases any college would get a GPA of 3.5.

I would venture a guess that you selected your career based on what you are good at. I would venture a guess that this young lady could also put together an effective presentation in an area of her interest and skill.

In the adult, work world, we are specialized. We don't expect every adult to be able to do every thing well.

Everything well, no. I would not be expected to make improvements on the mechanical heart or settle the disparates between string theory and Einstein's theory of everything. I am, however, expected to be able to read, write professionally, make presentations to the board of directors without sounding like a dolt, and other basic skills.

Reading at a level expected of someone with a college degree (or high school diploma) is a pretty basic life skill in the professional world. At least it is in the corporate world where how you present yourself is pretty darn important.

 

[Bluestars]

It isn't hard to comprehend if you aren't completely obtuse about what special education is. Some posters here would prefer to see a math genius work fast food if he or she can't spell or write very well. Some of the attitudes here just astound me--it's as if they're saying, "Let's limit people and limit our society's potential by telling people that if they have a road block in one area, they aren't capable of doing anything."

(Oh, and btw, the sixth grade level isn't that low. I read posts here all the time that are written at lower than a sixth grade level. The news is written at that level, and newspapers at the eighth grade level. And there are LOTS of people working on higher degrees who didn't score so well on the verbal part of the GRE--they're generally studying math.)

I agree with everything you wrote. I am surprised by some of the responses on this thread. My husband has dyslexia and has to work much harder than a person without this problem just to read. It might take him longer to read something, but because he has to do it so thoroughly, he will know the material when he is finished. His dyslexia has nothing to do with his intelligence. Different people deal with different obstacles. I am glad accommodations are made for people who struggle with such obstacles.

 

[allison443]

Don't want to get in the middle of the actual discussion here but can address the question about why most universities throw out GPAs sent by high schools and calculate their own. It is an effort on their part to make sense of the many different ways that high schools weight grades to arrive at a GPA. Some schools seem to be in a race to have more and more ways for their students to have higher GPAs than other schools. A student from a school that offers more 5.0 opportunities (some schools even go to the ridculous point of offering 10.0 to 14.0 weights) can not be fairly compared to a brilliant student at a school that does not offer classes with these kind of weights. Recalculating helps take all of this grade escalation nonsense out of the equation.

Most schools also recalculate to remove non-academic courses from a students GPA. Grades in courses like art and music are removed from the GPA. Students who pursue college courses in these areas are normally evaluated by an audition or portfolio of their work. The grades in these courses are not used in evaluating a GPA.

Having recently gone through the college process with my two oldest, we found this to be the case...colleges will often say right on the admissions page on their website how they recalculate the gpa, such as only basing it on what they consider "core courses". My dd had to take religion at her Catholic high school, that was another course that was usually disregarded by the recalculation processs.

Normally when the student's high school transcript is forwarded to colleges, a "high school profile" is supposed to be included by the guidance counselor. It outlines various stats about the high school, what levels of courses are offered, how they grade, etc. So a college admissions person receiving applications from students at the same high school can easily see which students took the higher level courses, etc. even though all the students might have the same 3.5 unweighted gpa. Class rank is also reported (by those schools that rank) which is another factor used by colleges. Every college we have looked at is always flaunting what percentage of their admitted applicants were in the top 10%, top 25%, etc. of their high school class.

 

[SandiH]

I really am not politically correct enough to accept that a person who cannot read at the 6th grade level deserves a HS diploma, much less a college degree. Devalues everyone else's accomplishment...

There are other ways to learn and comprehend the information besides reading it. You can listen to it for example. I've worked with students who have difficulty with the written word but can comprehend from talking or discussion. Just because someone can't read beyond the 6th grade level, due to a disability, doesn't necessarily mean they can't comprehend beyond the 6th grade level. Accommodations are what these people need, not narrow mindedness from you. (hope I don't get points, it would be my first time but I feel very strongly about this)

 

[Scutapipig]

Henry Ford never graduated high school and had a learning disability of dyslexia.

Albert Einstein was expelled from high school, and is rumored to have had a learning disability of dyslexia. It is believed he also had Asperger's Syndrome, a form of autism.

Thomas Alva Edison was slightly deaf and did not learn to read until age 12, which impacted his writing skills the remainder of his life.

I'm not willing to discredit the accomplishments of these men simply because of a number that may or may not be attached to their education level.

Overall, everyone needs to focus on their own abilities and strengths and stop comparing themselves to everyone else. Fingers that point out, should point inward first.

 

[Va-bear]

I might have an unpopular opinion but I don't think it's fair to take away the SE student's honor. This child probably worked just as hard if not harder to get these grades. Maybe the other NHS members could learn to have a little compassion.

Now, I understand the whole class rank thing b/c of scholarships and such but that shouldn't take away someone graduating with honors.

I, also, agree with Loreli. Your sister needs to stay faraway from this.

...and I think the NHS students should be reminded of what it will mean to her and that it really wont take away from them (they will still get into college - something she may not get the chance to do). If my child complained about this I would be rather disappointed....

 

[MiniGirl]

Now, I will be the first to admit that it has been many, many years since I graduated from high school. When I did, my class rank meant ZILCH in the real world. It was not asked for on college admissions applications or anything else, so I don't understand what the big deal is. The thing that mattered to colleges was my GPA, and nobody else's GPA effected mine. To me it sounds like a pride issue. These smart NHS students can't understand how a SE student could graduated above them in the rankings. Sounds like a blow to their (and their parents') egos.

OP, if I were your cousin, I'd stay out of it. I don't know how the grading worked, but like others mentioned, more advanced classes were worth more than other classes. Someone making a B in an AP class was ranked evenly as someone making an A in a regular class. Now if that is not the case in your cousin's school, I think working to change that would be a good idea. I do think an A in an honors class should be worth more than an A in a regular class, but I would not work to take away something someone else has earned under the current system.

BTW, I graduated with a 3.74. I graduated with performing arts honors but not academic honors, and I was 74th out of 274. The only reason I remember all that is because of all the 74s. Otherwise it would've been long forgotten. LOL!!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Now, I will be the first to admit that it has been many, many years since I graduated from high school. When I did, my class rank meant ZILCH in the real world. It was not asked for on college admissions applications or anything else, so I don't understand what the big deal is.

It is about scholarship money. Your ranking in some colleges could get you money, admissions to honors college, or like with my dd your ranking + your ACT/SAT determined your admission.

Or like in TX all those that graduate in the top 10% are able to automatically get accepted to a TX college.

 

[MiniGirl]

It is about scholarship money. Your ranking in some colleges could get you money, admissions to honors college, or like with my dd your ranking + your ACT/SAT determined your admission.

Or like in TX all those that graduate in the top 10% are able to automatically get accepted to a TX college.

Well then that does make a difference, but what a stupid system. LOL!!! It should go by GPA -- not class rank. If I had gone to almost any other high school, I would've been in the Top 5. However, because I went to a school for highly motivated students, I was ranked much lower. Awards, scholarships, etc should be on our acheivement and what our classmates do should not impact it.

 

[golfgal]

Well then that does make a difference, but what a stupid system. LOL!!! It should go by GPA -- not class rank. If I had gone to almost any other high school, I would've been in the Top 5. However, because I went to a school for highly motivated students, I was ranked much lower. Awards, scholarships, etc should be on our acheivement and what our classmates do should not impact it.

They go by both. It gives them a good idea how difficult your school was. If you have a 3.8 and are ranked 2nd in your class that is a pretty good indication that your school was not easy. If you have a 4.0 and are ranked 28th-maybe your school wasn't very challenging.

 

[tinkerbell615]

Although I have not read all of the posts on this thread, I just have to give my opinion.

My heart bleeds for the special ed student who has other students trying to take away her class rank and honors. Special ed students have to overcome many challenges and work very hard to accomplish something like this. My son is a special ed teacher and I know this first hand.

My DD is ranked in the top 20% of her class. She has done very well and I am very proud of her. With that being said... if I ever found out that she wanted to take away another student's top ranking or honors, I would be extremely disappointed with her. Especially if this was a student that everyone knows worked very hard to get where they are. I believe she would be cheering them on. Don't get me wrong, I also know how hard ALL students work to be ranked at the top of their class! It is stressful to a point sometimes, but anyone who is there, surely deserves their spot.

Do you honestly believe that this person will take scholarships away from the other top ranked students? I believe when giving scholarships other criteria is looked at such as community service, etc... And if this young person is fortunate enough to get a scholarship... Kudos to them!!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

They go by both. It gives them a good idea how difficult your school was. If you have a 3.8 and are ranked 2nd in your class that is a pretty good indication that your school was not easy. If you have a 4.0 and are ranked 28th-maybe your school wasn't very challenging.

That is not true everywhere. In TX my dd had a 3.75 and was in the 44%. The school was extremely competitive in class ranking because of the TX rule.

There were so many honors students it was crazy. If you had not been in the gifted program in middle school and worked the system you did not have a shot at graduating in the top 10%. Which for TX was the all important brass ring due to the 10% rule.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

I think this is disgusting, and if there are adults that are encouraging the kids to pursue this, then I now know what is wrong with today's society.

How is it not clear that this special ed girl achieved her grades based on the academic challenges that match her ability? She earned her GPA as much as the NHS kids earned their grades.

Gee, I'm sorry I didn't realize 26 years ago that the kids who took the below-grade level classes and ranked higher than me means they didn't earn their ranking. My math and english level was higher than their, but while they struggled to get their grades high, I didn't want to bother struggling, so I didn't do the work if it meant I had to actually DO THE WORK. Should I have been upset, because had I been in their classes, the work would have come easy to me,and I would have been an A student. I was placed according to my ability, and I chose not to apply myself.

This needs to be left alone. That poor girl needs to be left alone and she should be allowed to have her accomplishments acknowledged, just as much as those NHS kids.

 

[Disney1fan2002]

There were so many honors students it was crazy. If you had not been in the gifted program in middle school and worked the system you did not have a shot at graduating in the top 10%. Which for TX was the all important brass ring due to the 10% rule.

Not to go OT, but this very example has me wondering about the HS my DS will be attending next year. He is in 8th grade right now, and in algebra. There is only one 8th grade algebra class, and he had to test into it. At the HS open house, we learned that as freshman, the 8th graders who were in algebra will be placed in Honors geometry. (geometry is 10th grade math). It will advance from there each year. So, he will be one grade level ahead of his peers and in the honors program.

This is all based on where he placed in middle school. I am wondering how other kids who may be just as bright, but for some reason didn't test into algebra would ever find there way to honors or AP classes?

He is also going to be recommended for honors english. I just think of kids like my DD who is in 6th grade, and in regular classes. Based on her middle school classes, she would not ba able to take honors in HS, even if she woke up one day and all of a sudden "got it". She is smart, but it takes her longer to figure things out. Honors would be a huge struggle, if not impossible for her right now, but maybe by the time she is in HS, it would be something that she could attempt. Based on how the program is set up, she would never have the opportunity.

 

[asta]

That is not true everywhere. In TX my dd had a 3.75 and was in the 44%. The school was extremely competitive in class ranking because of the TX rule.

There were so many honors students it was crazy. If you had not been in the gifted program in middle school and worked the system you did not have a shot at graduating in the top 10%. Which for TX was the all important brass ring due to the 10% rule.

Mystery Machine you are exactly right about this. The poster you quoted does not understand the situation in a competitive school where a greater percentage of the student body is performing at higher level than in a regular high school. Just because you have a lot of smart students in your school that does not mean that the curriculum is too easy. It sounds like this poster's experience is with a school that does not have as high a concentration of honors or AP students.

My experience here is that parents in the know start working the system like crazy even in elementary school to make sure that their kids are in the gifted program. Students are selected in second grade for the gifted program in our public schools and this benefit carries an advantage for most of them through high school. They get the more advanced classes every step along the way. It is no surprise that students given extra, more individualized attention are going to perform better. What drives me crazy is that selecting these students in second grade ignores the fact that you are dealing with readiness to learn issues that tend to even out by fourth grade. And on top of this, you have many children in our area who are held back before starting kindergarten. What a mess!

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Not to go OT, but this very example has me wondering about the HS my DS will be attending next year. He is in 8th grade right now, and in algebra. There is only one 8th grade algebra class, and he had to test into it. At the HS open house, we learned that as freshman, the 8th graders who were in algebra will be placed in Honors geometry. (geometry is 10th grade math). It will advance from there each year. So, he will be one grade level ahead of his peers and in the honors program.

This is all based on where he placed in middle school. I am wondering how other kids who may be just as bright, but for some reason didn't test into algebra would ever find there way to honors or AP classes?

He is also going to be recommended for honors english. I just think of kids like my DD who is in 6th grade, and in regular classes. Based on her middle school classes, she would not ba able to take honors in HS, even if she woke up one day and all of a sudden "got it". She is smart, but it takes her longer to figure things out. Honors would be a huge struggle, if not impossible for her right now, but maybe by the time she is in HS, it would be something that she could attempt. Based on how the program is set up, she would never have the opportunity.

My dd is going to be doing the same however there are kids that were taking honors algebra in 6th grade.

In 9th grade they are walking into either Pre-Calc(weighted), Honors Algebra 2 (weighted), reg. Algebra 2 (not weighted), honors geometry (not weighted), reg. geometry (not weighted), Algebra 1 (not weighted), and then a 2yrs algebra class which is not weighted.

Honors Geometry IS NOT weighted at the HS my dd is going to. The weighted grades start at honors Algebra 2 (see above).

So, she would have had to have gotten in the gifted program with math in 7th grade in order to catch up to the weighted honor classes for 9th grade which of course is going to affect her class ranking naturally.

The counselor wanted her to test for it however we decided not to. Math is not her gifted area. She is a writing/english/public speaking kid. She does want to go into business which does require math however if she stays on the track she is on she will be fine.

I am not worried about it and I want my dd to be happy being challenged in the classes she wants.

As far as the other classes we are sorting thru those....OY! In english there is a weighted class for 9th graders. I have not even gone there, yet. I am looking at her handbook since we just had sign-ups for classes for 8th grade.

My older dd is a freshman in college, who took AP but she is your basic reg. student. My youngest has high goals so we are helping her map it out. She knows about all of this because her sister is in college of course. She is watching and listening.