Do you use the handicapped stall?

[goofyernmost]

Hey chief, settle down. I just asked for some clarification.

And I think I did clarify my points. The problem is that no one is willing to read the words, just what they consider the meaning.

Ok, I am trying really hard not to be bothered by goofyernmost's post. Using that logic then a kid who can't do long division fast enough shouldn't be in math class..because he is hindering the rest of the class. What? You are the ONLY kid who can't make a basket on the basketball team? GET OUT! You are holding everyone else back! That's horrible logic. IMO, we, as a society, should be open and embrace other people..gee, we aren't back in the WWII era where everyone was expected to be the same..or you end up in a concentration camp.

You can be bothered by them if you want. It is what I think and what I believe. You don't have to be part of it. If you think that what I was saying has any relevance to the examples that you noted, there really is nothing I am going to be able to say that can further explain my opinion. What I have said is what I have said.

Use the toilets, don't use the toilets. Matters not to me. Bring someone along that can directly expose me to fecal matter, then it matters. I shouldn't have to make evasive maneuvers to accommodate them. If I cannot drive, I shouldn't be in a auto race. If I cannot see, I am probably not going to be found at target practice. If I cannot hear, you won't see me at a symphony. My whole point is that one can only do what the limitations of their handicap allows.

 

[pfishgirl]

I'm quite impressed with myself. I don't think I've ever created such a long thread on any forum. Who woulda thought my longest thread creation would be about the potty?

Potty Talks and Bull * blank* Walks

 

[SwedishMeatball]

And I think I did clarify my points. The problem is that no one is willing to read the words, just what they consider the meaning.

This was your original post:

I know I'm going to be shot for this but here goes. If you or anyone have a disability that creates a situation where other, non related individuals must bow down to your individual needs...you do not belong there. If you have a bowel problem that causes a situation were your needs outweigh that of another individual then, there is a good chance that you do not belong there.

Many people have disabilities and within those disabilities there are certain restrictions. If, for example, you are paraplegic you have to accept that there is a good chance that you are not going to be able to walk. You have to accept that and adjust your life around that disability. I know we are only talking about bathroom needs here but it still applies. If you cannot control your bowels or bladder than, yes I'm going to say it, you should not be at a public place like WDW. You are a walking avenue of possible contamination that will effect many, many people that you do not even know.

I am sorry that you cannot conform to the extent that is required to fit into a public place, but you cannot. A theme park, is not the place for you unless you have, in place, a system that will not require the sacrifice of others to accommodate your needs. There is a huge difference between willingness to help someone and requirement to help someone.

Here was my post asking for clarification:

I have no interest in shooting/flaming you, but I just want to be sure that I understand what you're saying. So do you think that an older child or adult, who has a condition which requires the use of diapers, should be prohibited from being in public places such as an amusement park??

Then, of all the people who actually did jump your ***, you chose my post and one other to quote, and went off on this rampage:

OK, everybody take a deep breath, look at what I said, and stop trying to make me look evil while you all love every bit of humanity.

I will say, just one more time...if you have a problem that cannot be contained within yourself. Be that diapers, whatever. And you feel that all of humanity needs to fall over dead to accommodate you or your relative that has that disability then you or they should not be there.

No, I am lucky I don't have any over riding disability but I can tell you this if I ever did have one that required sacrifice on people that I don't even know, I would not be seen there.

If I have a disability it is MY problem. It is not the problem of everyone else on the planet. I would never, ever demand that some stranger be inconvenienced or even aware of my problem. The world does not owe me anything. If I have a problem it is mine and mine alone. If reasonable accommodation is made, being handicapped accessible facilities in this case, that is all that is owed. If the extent of my disability cannot be met by those reasonable accommodations then I cannot participate, plain and simple.

You can all express "Wow" forever. I've seen all of you write about some little thing that irritates you about other people. You are not holier then I. If you read what I said, I am perfectly willing to accept people with disabilities and to even encourage them to participate as long as their participation isn't at the expense of others. One should not be made to feel guilty because they don't have a disability. If someones bowel problem is such that it is a real possibility that I might come in contact with it then a public facility is not the place for them. Like it or not. If the problem can be contained then there is no reason for them to not participate.

I made that statement because it started out a question about if it was OK to use a access stall when there was no one waiting to use it. The overwhelming response was sure, it's there for them to use but it isn't an exclusive club. When that answer wasn't satisfactory then the argument because a series of "what if's". What if they have a bowel problem and the can't wait, what if they have a bladder problem and they can't wait. If they cannot wait and they are being subjected to humiliation from a group of people that are hell bent on making sure everyone, regardless of ability get's included, then it is just wrong. I'm sure the embarrassment far outweighs any pleasure that is garnered by such a visit.

Not everyone is able to fit into every environment. Not everyone should try. If you had someone that had a phobia about crowds of people, would you advocate denying everyone else the right to admission because that one person would like to experience Disney but cannot stand crowds? Everyone stay out for that person?

I stand by what I said and if everyone decides to read other meanings into what I tried to explain, well there isn't anything I can do about that. Self righteous yourselves silly.

So exactly where did I try to paint you as evil or come off as self righteous??

 

[Mrs.Toad]

And as far as following logic, we encounter every day situations where restrictions are sometimes placed on individuals. People with small infants are frowned upon if they let their infants cry through a movie and destroy everyone elses enjoyment. Children who are advanced in Math or other subjects are put into special classes so that normal children don't slow their progress. And around here, if you can't make a basketball goal you would get cut from most teams. These are just a couple of situations that come to mind. Unfortunately, I don't get to do everything I want if it adversely affects others.

True, but I think it depends (no pun intended ) on to what degree it affects others. A few small cries from a baby, or a couple of coughs from an adult, don't ruin a movie for most other people, though continuous crying (or loud coughing, or talking, etc) probably would. There is also a range of opinions as to what exactly "adversely affects" others and what doesn't. I don't expect parents to keep their kids at home for the first 2 (or 3 or 5 or 15 )years of life on the chance that they might cry or whine a little and disturb someone else momentarily, though I do expect them to take that crying child out of the restaurant or movie theater if it lasts more than a brief moment.

IMO, people should be considerate and try not to adversely affect others, but by the same token, the others should be considerate back and not get bent out of shape over making a minor accomodation.

That's how the potty thing flushes out for me . It's too much, IMO, to expect that the handicapped stall be left open at all times, on the chance that a person who needs it and is unable to wait a minute comes in, especially when there is a line. But it's not too much for the majority of us, for whom waiting an extra 30 seconds for the next stall to open up is really not a big deal, to let the person who really needs it, go to the head of the line when the one and only stall she can use becomes available.

 

[earthfaries]

I don't think the woman took the time to think about how the other two stalls could have been full and you just took the only available one. She is probably not a nice person in the first place to be yelling at a stranger. I couldn't do that!

 

[Stacerita]

When my son was having surgery earlier this year, I used the medical staff only bathroom. It was the closest to the recovery room, and there weren't any staff members in there at the time. Do you think that's ok?

Ive worked in hospitals for over 13 and I would never use a Medical Staff only bathroom. The reason they are marked for them is so that the time they are away from patient care is limited. No need to wait in lines at the regular bathrooms. It probably would have been best to ask the recovery nurses where I should go. If they said go there, then I would have, but other than that, no. Honsetly though, if my child was having surgery, I probably wouldn't have paid enough attention to notice it was medical staff only.

 

[goofyernmost]

So exactly where did I try to paint you as evil or come off as self righteous??

You didn't! Sorry, but my bits of verbal diarrhea are not necessarily targeted at anyone specifically. Just attitudes in general. I don't even refer back to posters when stating my opinions.

Attitudes, however, are difficult to ignore. I am to old to be intimidated or treated like a child in need of a scolding. My opinions are just that, mine! When I have opinions and express them publicly I try to explain the reasons for my thoughts. I feel that my concerns are not based completely on emotion, as many are in these forums, but hopefully on common sense. I don't expect people to come on and say...oh, man you are so right. Nor do I expect them to be condescending or "superior".

That will, I agree, sometimes cause my emotional side to jump up a little higher then I usually let it. As I stated, if my explanation for my position is not able to make someone see the reasoning behind it, then no amount of further word spewing is going to make an iota of difference.

 

[robinb]

... no amount of further word spewing is going to make an iota of difference.

At least we can agree on that .

 

[alizesmom]

Use the toilets, don't use the toilets. Matters not to me. Bring someone along that can directly expose me to fecal matter, then it matters. I shouldn't have to make evasive maneuvers to accommodate them.

You have the right to your opinion. This statement, however, made my day. You are more likely to be exposed to fecal matter by all of the people who do not wash their hands after using the bathroom. Can you imagine all of the surfaces they have touched?

 

[sha_lyn]

You have the right to your opinion. This statement, however, made my day. You are more likely to be exposed to fecal matter by all of the people who do not wash their hands after using the bathroom. Can you imagine all of the surfaces they have touched?

I guess goofyernmost avoids all places with babies, toddlers and their parents.

 

[Green Tea]

I have not read the replies, but I would use it in a heartbeat. If there is a line, the next in line goes to the next available stall. When a person gets to the front of the line who is in a wheelchair or in need of the additional space, then she waits until the stall is open. (If I was next in line and a wheelchair patron was near the front I would offer her the stall and wait for the next available. If she was near the end of the line, I'm going to the bathroom)

 

[goofyernmost]

You have the right to your opinion. This statement, however, made my day. You are more likely to be exposed to fecal matter by all of the people who do not wash their hands after using the bathroom. Can you imagine all of the surfaces they have touched?

I guess goofyernmost avoids all places with babies, toddlers and their parents.

Now you folks are just embarrassing yourselves. Common sense would be handy here!

Why can people not understand that to bring an otherwise functioning adult into a situation that could potentially cause them that much embarrassment is a lot more fun and fulfilling for you then for them. What's so difficult to understand about that?

 

[Robindianne]

A handicapped stall just means that it's handicapped accessable. It doesn't mean it's only for handicapped people's use.

I would have told her politely where to go...

I totally agree with this.

 

[wilderness01]

Yes, I use the HA stall. You didn't do anything wrong. She was the rude person, not you.

I agree.

 

[SwedishMeatball]

You didn't! Sorry, but my bits of verbal diarrhea are not necessarily targeted at anyone specifically. Just attitudes in general. I don't even refer back to posters when stating my opinions.

Attitudes, however, are difficult to ignore. I am to old to be intimidated or treated like a child in need of a scolding. My opinions are just that, mine! When I have opinions and express them publicly I try to explain the reasons for my thoughts. I feel that my concerns are not based completely on emotion, as many are in these forums, but hopefully on common sense. I don't expect people to come on and say...oh, man you are so right. Nor do I expect them to be condescending or "superior".

That will, I agree, sometimes cause my emotional side to jump up a little higher then I usually let it. As I stated, if my explanation for my position is not able to make someone see the reasoning behind it, then no amount of further word spewing is going to make an iota of difference.

Did someone mention something about being condescending and superior??

Now you folks are just embarrassing yourselves. Common sense would be handy here!

Why can people not understand that to bring an otherwise functioning adult into a situation that could potentially cause them that much embarrassment is a lot more fun and fulfilling for you then for them. What's so difficult to understand about that?

 

[alizesmom]

Why can people not understand that to bring an otherwise functioning adult into a situation that could potentially cause them that much embarrassment is a lot more fun and fulfilling for you then for them. What's so difficult to understand about that?

No one wants to have an accident but you seem to be making the inference that an accident has to be embarrassing to the "otherwise functioning adult". Why? Most have learned to cope with if not accept that they are going to have issues. This does not mean that they want to be excluded from having fun. People with disabilities are usually as intelligent as the rest of the world and can (and will) make decisions on their own whether or not to go someplace. The original issue here was whether or not to use the accessible stall. The majority have said yes which I agree with. Some have tried to explain that there are medical problems that make quick access important. No one has demanded their right to the stall. Please don't judge them for wanting to enjoy the same things you do.

 

[alizesmom]

Now you folks are just embarrassing yourselves. Common sense would be handy here!

And if I'm embarrassing myself here, I can't think of a better way of doing so.

 

[sha_lyn]

Now you folks are just embarrassing yourselves. Common sense would be handy here!

Why can people not understand that to bring an otherwise functioning adult into a situation that could potentially cause them that much embarrassment is a lot more fun and fulfilling for you then for them. What's so difficult to understand about that?

If you had any common sense you would be the one embarrassed right now.
You bring up one point, and when we shoot it down you go off on another tangent. Do you seriously believe that "an otherwise functioning adult" would want to stay at home 24/7 just because they might have an embarrassing episode.

We get it. You don't want to be inconvenienced. You don't want to chance being exposed. You want everyone to stay home if their being in public might inconvenience you in any way shape or form. We get it. You want the world to revolve around you.

 

[goofyernmost]

I've said all I'm going to say here. I obviously have struck a few nerves and that's OK. It hasn't changed my mind and certainly hasn't change any of yours. I have made my points and now I shall move on.

BTW, if any of you folks happen to be my daughters...let me say that if I become unable to control my bodily function do not drag me to a public place because I am probably trying to save as much of my dignity as possible. "Dumping" in a public place with hundreds of witnesses, having to be cleaned up and on display will do nothing to help my self esteem and I will not enjoy my visit at all. Leave me home. Take pictures and tell me about it when you return.

 

[Mom2Nick]

I've said all I'm going to say here. I obviously have struck a few nerves and that's OK. It hasn't changed my mind and certainly hasn't change any of yours. I have made my points and now I shall move on.

BTW, if any of you folks happen to be my daughters...let me say that if I become unable to control my bodily function do not drag me to a public place because I am probably trying to save as much of my dignity as possible. "Dumping" in a public place with hundreds of witnesses, having to be cleaned up and on display will do nothing to help my self esteem and I will not enjoy my visit at all. Leave me home. Take pictures and tell me about it when you return.

It in painfully obvious that you are woefully ignorant when it comes to people with disabilities- and that's ok. I honestly don't mean that as an insult it's just matter of fact. Most people are blessed to not understand and those of us that do understand try to be as patient as possible but we also won't back down when we see an opportunity to enlighten somebody.

When people like yourself stand your ground, are judgemental and obstinate and won't learn or bend or accept that your belliefs may be a tad off base - then yes people are going to get up in arms.

Parents of disabled children like myself and disabled adults and children everywhere come across rudeness and ignorance every day. PLEASE don't be one of those people that brings tears to our eyes or to the eyes of our children. PLEASE try and understand what it's like to live such a restricted life no matter how hard you try to be like everybody else and PLEASE try to understand the joy and freedom of being able to go out and experience the world.

Disabled people just CANNOT focus their lives on all the negative things - if they did they would wallow in their grief over being different every single second of every day. Disabled people need to focus on what they can do and the joys they can experience and they just do not have the time to worry about offending somebody that doesn't understand.

I sincerely hope that you do continue on in life just not getting it - but I do hope that you could try a littel harder to see life from the other side.