Do you think this could happen with DVC

[bicker]

IMHO, every member should have the same chance to reserve a particular room type/date at his/her home resort.

They would, either way, since every member could decide to start their vacation on any specific day any other member could decide to start their vacation.

 

[Dean]

Good point Dean. Still not sure why they don't simply permit booking at the front end of the vacation -- that would eliminate the day-to-day reservations. I've never done day-to-day -- wastes too much of my time and the CMs, IMO.

I agree with you and I've said it several times. Once you get a day of what you want you SHOULD get a priority over the next owner for the next day, within reason. While I see the thinking that why should one person get it because they start a day earlier, I also see the problem with getting part but not all of a ressies. Esp if the part you don't get is in the middle. Also, it's much less costly for MS to deal with a larger number of days at a time. I too prefer to not call day by day but I will if I have to to get what I want. I think it would be easy to control most abuse of this system if allowed. Don't get the idea that the system can't be gamed now, it can in many ways. Thus is not a choice of fair vs unfair, simply of what works better for you vs others.

One thing about timeshares is that almost anything is going to be good for one person and bad for another, it's inevitable. I'm surprised DVC has gone this long without requiring a min stay of four days for during the week (S-F) and 3 days for the weekend. And while the rules say DVC cannot require a min stay of more than 5 days, I don't recall anything that would block them from giving a priority for a full 7 days ressie if they wanted.

 

[Dean]

IMHO, every member should have the same chance to reserve a particular room type/date at his/her home resort. Booking at the "front end" doesn't meet that criteria.

I guess the question is what is the "same chance". It's no different than the new dining reservation policy. As I've posted before, Marriott allows multiple week owners to book concurrent or consecutive weeks 13 months out but single week owners or multiple week owners booking other times, only 12 months out. Some see it as unfair. Me, I went out and bought another week to take advantage of it.

 

[atlnewf]

Being a Fairfield owner, I'll make what (limited) comments I can. There are owners out there that are better (and more knowledgeable) than I.

Fairfield does have a 13 month reservation priority for your home resort, 10 months out for other owners. If I remember correctly, ARP requires a 3 night minimum stay (I'd have to dig out my book, and I have no idea where it is).

I will admit that there are resorts that are VERY hard to get in to. Usually the ones with extremely limited space. (IE: Fairfield Washington DC at Old Towne Alexandria has about 26 units total.) Then again, I've noticed if I book as soon as I can, it's rare I haven't been able to get what I want.

What they don't tell you in the article is what TYPE of week they purchased. There are still weeks that exist in the Fairfield system that are tied to a specific week at a specific resort and have to be exchanged a specific way. Though purchases through Fairfield itself generally require you to convert them to points first. Points do not guarantee a specific week to the owner, it's supply vs. demand.

As one person on the Fairfield Timeshare email list put it: "Imagine, I buy just enough DVC points for a week of high season because I want to check in Christmas day and stay through New Years day, to visit relatives in Orlando.. EVERY year..."

Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't know how many of you are familiar with RCI, but most of the resorts in the Gatlinburg area are 1 in 4 use years. IE: You can only stay there once every four years. Fairfield only has ONE resort in the area and is the same through RCI. Gatlinburg is a very high demand area, especially in summer.

Ashley

 

[Dean]

Oh, and for what it's worth, I don't know how many of you are familiar with RCI, but most of the resorts in the Gatlinburg area are 1 in 4 use years. IE: You can only stay there once every four years. Fairfield only has ONE resort in the area and is the same through RCI. Gatlinburg is a very high demand area, especially in summer.

Ashley

I do not believe that would apply to a FF owner using their points. Nor do I think it apply to a FF owner trading to a FF resort through RCI.

 

[atlnewf]

Actually, the 1 in 4 does apply to a FF owner using points through RCI. I've hit that one myself making reservations. Using points through FF does not apply, though.

Ashley

 

[gppnj]

The other day I was wondering why the time limit for making reservations is based on the check-out date rather than the check-in date. Having it based on the check-in date would be more convenient for members because members would never be tempted to book on a day-by-day basis, which would also less time on the phone for members and fewer phone calls for Member Services to deal with.

However, I realized that allowing members to make reservations based on the check-in date would give an unfair advantage to members with larger amounts of points. Here's why:

Let's say two members both want to stay at their home resort from Oct. 7-12. Member A has 150 points, and Member B has 500 points. Member A has enough points to pay for his stay, but that stay will be taking almost all of his available points. Member B has many points avaible in addition to what he will need for this stay.

With the current system, the earliest that both members could call would be Nov. 12 of the previous year - assuming they both chose not to book on a day-by-day basis.

If the system were changed so that members could book based on check-in day, the earliest Member A could call would be Nov. 7. That's not the case for Member B, though. Keep in mind that Member A has just enough points to pay for his stay, but Member B has ample points in addition to what he needs for the stay he wants. As a result, Member B could book a room for the six nights he really wants but also for two full weeks before that, which would mean that he could call to make the reservation in late October rather than on Nov. 7. Later on, he could then cancel the earlier nights that he never really wanted.

As long as Member A and Member B both have enough points to cover the room that they want, they should have an equal shot at getting that room, and allowing members to book based on check-in date would prevent that.

 

[Lisa P.]

Regarding the 1-in-4 with RCI in Gatlinburg, this restriction applies to all owners from outside resorts and systems. But if one owns within the system that they are trading into through RCI, this restriction is waived. FF owners are never restricted as to frequency of exchanging into any FF resort. To be honest, I've not seen the 1-in-4 restriction at FF resorts, though it may exist. It doesn't affect me at all, either way.

 

[Lisa P.]

There are several inaccuracies represented in that Orlando Sentinel article. For one thing, the family in the lawsuit supposedly has their home resort at Fairfield Smoky Mountains in Gatlinburg. This resort is really located in Sevierville, not in Gatlinburg. Minor perhaps, but careless.

Next, the article identifies the family in the lawsuit as having a fee-simple ownership, which is described as one week per year for life. Yet this home resort has never been sold in weeks, only in points. It's not a "mixed ownership" resort. That family is no more guaranteed a week of their choice at their home resort than a DVC member is guaranteed an annual Christmas week at their DVC home resort.

Thirdly, the family claims they could never book a vacation (weekend?) at their home resort. This resort is quite popular with FF owners and much of the year is "prime season." During prime season, one may only book a 3-night, 4-night or 7 night reservation, until 3 months before check-in when all availability becomes nightly/open. By that time, it's usually booked solid.

For the more popular resorts, FF limits prime season reservations to 3-, 4- or 7-nights in order to minimize the number of single night vacancies while owners are denied their longer stay requests. So if this family has requested 2-night weekend reservations, the computers have denied their requests, stating that no such reservation is available. That would be a sad, unfortunate misunderstanding of how their FF points system works, but entirely possible.

If this family read their FF Member Directory, the reservation process is explained quite clearly and simply in one page with a chart on the opposite page. However, I find that most owners have never opened their book.

Frankly, the fact that the attorney has been quoted with information contradictory to what I've shared above suggests to me that he has not yet read the directory either before going ahead with a press statement. He also has implied that over-selling "may have" occurred. But nothing in the article gives any reason why he'd say this, other than this family's disappointment (and apparent lack of understanding) in their ownership. It's really a shame.

Considering how this likely happened, IMHO, I would dare say that, yes, the same thing could happen with DVC. DVC could indeed have owners who don't understand how to properly use their points, become disillusioned and frustrated enough and start a lawsuit over it, with a possible hope of discovering something amiss in the sales process, like overselling the points. JMHO - not a factual nor authoritative argument.

 

[Dean]

Actually, the 1 in 4 does apply to a FF owner using points through RCI. I've hit that one myself making reservations. Using points through FF does not apply, though.

Ashley

As I stated and Lisa confirms, it is my understanding that the 1 in 4 is waived for owners in that system EVEN if what they are trading is not an internal trade. But you never know when a single resort is going to throw you a curve ball.

 

[Lisa P.]

DVC only permits you to reserve (to the day) up to 11/7 months ahead. This process increases the number of calls required to secure your whole reservation during the most popular times and for the 3BR GVs. But DVC permits unlimited reservations changes without incurring a fee. People are not tempted to secure certain nights (like the 5th night of a reservation) with an earlier phantom reservation (later to be cancelled) just so they can get it in before others. The playing field is level.

OTOH, FF only grants a certain number of "free transactions"/reservations per year. After that, they do charge a fee. This already discourages people from making and later cancelling reservations frivolously. Given this, they do permit you to book an entire stay (up to 7 nights) with a check-in date 13/10 months away. So the last night of the reservation may actually be 13/10 months and 6 days away. However, if one wants to shorten their stay, they must actually cancel one reservation and book another, separate stay. This could cost them the entire thing, if there's no availability after they cancel. This process favors those who are booking a full week at a time in prime season, maximizing the likelihood of full occupancy. A positive for all owners is that most people may reserve their vacations with a single phone call - even in prime time for larger units.

Each system has its advantages, loopholes or problems. Depends on what you are trying to do, I suppose. I agree with Dean, that each approach will be better for some people and worse for others.

 

[Lisa P.]

Ashley/atlnewfm did you mean that you had used FF points to book other non-FF resorts in Gatlinburg through RCI and you ran up against the 1-in-4 restriction? I can see that.

But we've booked short stays through FF using our points directly at this resort. And we've also used small amounts of FF points to exchange up into larger units at the FF Smoky Mtns resort through RCI multiple times - no restriction at all.

 

[NJOYURLIFE]

I also own Fairfield and confirm that the 1 in 4 rules for each FF resort do not apply when trading through RCI into a FF resort even if it is not your Home resort.

It will be interesting to see how this lawsuit plays out.

Lisa

 

[cmoore]

... I protested that I was calling at 10 AM on the first day of availability and it was impossible that everything was booked. ...

That brings up a question I've been wondering about. I'm a new owner at Saratoga Springs. If I were to call exactly 11 months ahead at 10 AM, should I expect to be guaranteed to get what I want regardless of season or size? I got the impression that the 11 month window gives you an advantage, but you're still competing with everyone else that has the same 11 month window. But the comment above suggests that you should expect to be able to get what you want if you book at your home resort at 11 months out. Is that true?

Chris

 

[Lasrnw]

Could it happen to DVC....probably, but would it....ABSOLUTELY NOT! this is Disney! There is no way the company would allow the reputation of one of its entities to reflect badly upon the company as a whole. With over 80,000 DVC members it would be a customer relations nightmare for the corporation.
Be confident with your purchase that not only have you bought into a great program but the legacy of a great company. That's how I feel.

 

[Dean]

That brings up a question I've been wondering about. I'm a new owner at Saratoga Springs. If I were to call exactly 11 months ahead at 10 AM, should I expect to be guaranteed to get what I want regardless of season or size? I got the impression that the 11 month window gives you an advantage, but you're still competing with everyone else that has the same 11 month window. But the comment above suggests that you should expect to be able to get what you want if you book at your home resort at 11 months out. Is that true?

Chris

You could be, and likely would be, shut out of some options if you called an hour after they opened on day 1. But it's really mainly an issue for very high demand options like standard view BWV, HH for summer (esp other than 2 BR), VB beach house at time and BWV GV. For everything else, it's unlikely you'd miss out by calling an hour later.

 

[deerh]

By Dean:You could be, and likely would be, shut out of some options if you called an hour after they opened on day 1. But it's really mainly an issue for very high demand options like standard view BWV, HH for summer (esp other than 2 BR), VB beach house at time and BWV GV. For everything else, it's unlikely you'd miss out by calling an hour later.

To help people out, Just FYI, I called on Friday Aug 12, for a 1BR at HHI for the July 4th week 2006, and ALL 5 nights and I called at the 10mo 3 week mark. So, I was a little late calling EXACTLY 11 mos out and got HHI prime summer 1BR.
I really don't think it is a problem, YET!! Now, when more people buy SSR, and it sells out, maybe a different outcome...

DeerH

 

[NJOYURLIFE]

To help people out, Just FYI, I called on Friday Aug 12, for a 1BR at HHI for the July 4th week 2006, and ALL 5 nights and I called at the 10mo 3 week mark. So, I was a little late calling EXACTLY 11 mos out and got HHI prime summer 1BR.
I really don't think it is a problem, YET!! Now, when more people buy SSR, and it sells out, maybe a different outcome...

DeerH

But the people who purchase SSR can't book Hilton Head until 7 months out. Owners do have a small window of time to book ahead of nonowners. High demand times have more owners competing for the same units so there can be disappointment. However, on option that DVC has that FF does not have is the waitlist. FF owners need to keep calling in the hopes of getting a cancellation, while DVC owners do not. I love both systems and have gotten what I need from both. Flexibility and planning ahead are the name of the game when owning timeshares, both points and fixed weeks, unless you own a fixed week and fixed unit that you plan to use yourself every year.

 

[Dean]

To help people out, Just FYI, I called on Friday Aug 12, for a 1BR at HHI for the July 4th week 2006, and ALL 5 nights and I called at the 10mo 3 week mark. So, I was a little late calling EXACTLY 11 mos out and got HHI prime summer 1BR.
I really don't think it is a problem, YET!! Now, when more people buy SSR, and it sells out, maybe a different outcome...

DeerH

HH was almost impossible for summer until last summer and this one.

 

[NJOYURLIFE]

Dean,
What caused the difference in booking at HH?

Thanks.