Do you think someone receiving assistance should continue to have children?

[poohandwendy]

This is why we need to better educate our children in schools. They should have some type of class in hs that will teach them how to apply for a job, how to dress for the interview, practice interviews. When you have someone that wants to work, they appreciate things a whole lot more than someone who just sits at home and waits for a check. If we start with the children, maybe the next generation of welfare recepients will be few and far between.

The problem is that you can teach life skills in the classroom all you want, when they see that their parents/neighbors/relatives do not have to apply any skills to exist comfortably 'enough' you have zero incentive to apply those skills.

Our welfare problem is not the people who fall into a bad place and need a hand up for a short period of time, those people want to work and want to get ahead. The problem is that our current system created generational welfare recipients. The only incentive I can think of to reverse this is to place conditions on assistance, to require effort (work) for assistance (money).

If McDonalds had a program where you could get a portion of the paycheck without working and you only had to fill out an application that you were down on your 'luck', how many people would actually opt for flipping the burgers 40 hours per week to get only a slightly bigger paycheck? That is where the problem lays, IMO. Since we require NOTHING from people who are on assistance, why should they work 40 hours a week in the workforce to make only a slightly better living?

Require that 40 hours, even on assistance, and people will be looking for the most money they can get for 40 hours. It wouldn't be assistance, it would be in the workforce.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Why is the US Gov't so lenient on people then? I haven't heard of any other country giving hand outs to their residents. Welfare was only suppose to be a temporary solution for families during the Depression era.

My theory is that there is value in having a group of people dependant on government. If people are dependant on me for food and housing, they are going to make sure that I keep my job. It's a win-win for politicians.

 

[ducklite]

And that's all well and good for us to say here on the DIS-but a politician that tries it is DEAD.
I remember here in NJ when Christie Whitman took away financial increases for additional children. Good Lord, you would have thought the woman was taking babies out and slaughtering them in the streets! She was also followed by Democratic administrations that promised assistance would be increased.

I said it before-people on public assistance VOTE and most of them aren't voting to get their benefits cut or to add requirements to them.

I was living in NJ at the time. Whitman basically told women to stop being baby factories and get off their butts to find a job. I recall lots of support for this from everyone except a few bleeding liberals in Newark, Elizabeth, and Camden. (I'm a registered democrat BTW.) While assistance was increased it was not increased in cash payments. What was increased was budgets for training programs, section 8 subsidies, and daycare subsidies. It became a hand up as opposed to a hand out.

At the same time that Whitman slashed ADFC payments, she also gave people six months to find a job or show that they were in training for a job--at which time they would get an additional six months. After a year they would be cut off. Everyone I know--and I was living in a VERY Democartic town and county--applauded it.

At the same time, NJ and NY began working together to find welfare cheats and cut millions of dollars a month by cutting off benefits to people claiming benefits in both states. About a year later PA hopped onboard that train and additional millions were saved. Some people were outright thrown in jail because their fraud and abuse of the system was so egregious.

There's a much larger voting bloc by taxpaying, working citizens. Any politician who runs thier campaign to cater to welfare recipients is going to have a difficult time getting elected--if nothing else they'll never raise enough funds to run a campaign.

Anne

 

[poohandwendy]

My theory is that there is value in having a group of people dependant on government. If people are dependant on me for food and housing, they are going to make sure that I keep my job. It's a win-win for politicians.

Exactly, you mentioned it in your earlier post...they cast votes. It's up to the rest of us to demand change. People just do not really care enough, or we would.

I think it is ironic that we are outsourcing so much in this country because we just can't get people here to do xyz jobs, but not using our public assistance residents as a resource.

 

[nuttylawprofessor]

I have one child, and I can guarantee that my school tax portion of my property taxes over ten years will more than pay for what it cost to educate him.

Pardon my extreme skepticism. I doubt that your property taxes cover the amount spent to educate your child. Nor should they. Public schools are a necessary component for a strong nation, and we should all bear the cost to educate our young.

There's a big difference between a government guaranteed loan and a handout.

Well, since the government paid my interest while I was in school and continues to subsidize some of that interest while in repayment, I guess I'm one of those on the dole. Oh, and then there was that portion of my loan that the government paid for me because of my public interest employment. I'm sure the amount of money I received through these programs exceeds the amount given to those you disdain. Sorry I had a child while on "your dime."

 

[ducklite]

Pardon my extreme skepticism. I doubt that your property taxes cover the amount spent to educate your child. Nor should they. Public schools are a necessary component for a strong nation, and we should all bear the cost to educate our young.

The school taxes portion of my current property tax bill is $6000 a year. I had one child. Do the math.

Well, since the government paid my interest while I was in school and continues to subsidize some of that interest while in repayment, I guess I'm one of those on the dole. Oh, and then there was that portion of my loan that the government paid for me because of my public interest employment. I'm sure the amount of money I received through these programs exceeds the amount given to those you disdain. Sorry I had a child while on "your dime."

You are obviously employed in an area that the government needs to recruit for. It's a quid pro quo. The government is using you as much as you are uning them, and for the betterment of the country. You aren't just sitting home on your butt making babies and smoking crack on the taxpayers dime.

Anne

 

[minnieandme]

Exactly, you mentioned it in your earlier post...they cast votes. It's up to the rest of us to demand change. People just do not really care enough, or we would.

I think it is ironic that we are outsourcing so much in this country because we just can't get people here to do xyz jobs, but not using our public assistance residents as a resource.

I think that would be a great thing if they did that. Stop outsourcing these jobs to other countries and give it to wtw people. It'll be a step in the right direction for some of these people. At least they'll get some job experience and can start from that point to want better for themselves and their family.

 

[luvwinnie]

And that's all well and good for us to say here on the DIS-but a politician that tries it is DEAD.
I remember here in NJ when Christie Whitman took away financial increases for additional children. Good Lord, you would have thought the woman was taking babies out and slaughtering them in the streets! She was also followed by Democratic administrations that promised assistance would be increased.

I said it before-people on public assistance VOTE and most of them aren't voting to get their benefits cut or to add requirements to them.

I was all for CHristie doing that!

 

[Fitswimmer]

I was all for CHristie doing that!

I was too, but remember the crap she took??? And notice-all Democrats since then and no more talk about cutting welfare benefits

 

[Charade]

I think it's ironic that we can use prisoners to pick up roadside trash and make license plates but we can't force someone do something (like work, stop having babies, get an education) to help offset (and better themselves) if they want government assistance with living expenses.

 

[minnieandme]

I think it's ironic that we can use prisoners to pick up roadside trash and make license plates but we can't force someone do something (like work, stop having babies, get an education) to help offset (and better themselves) if they want government assistance with living expenses.

That probably because prisoners will do anything to get outside for some fresh air and sun.

 

[Chloe'sMom]

Have you been to the budget board lately? There are several DISers there receiving WIC.

If I'm not mistaking, one of them is heading down to WDW this fall.

I believe WIC is a form of assistance. Yes, the income limit is much higher for WIC and it's better controlled than the foodstamp program, but it's still assistance.

If you have one child that you need assistance feeding,(milk, cheese, cereal...) why should we pay to feed more?

If a family decides both parents shouldn't work, then I don't think they should be able to apply for WIC.

I don't think it's ok for a single, inner city mom to have additional kids while receiving foodstamps. I feel the same way about the family living in the suburbs have more kids while receiving WIC.

I have always thought of those that really need the assitance programs in answering these questions.

But then I got wind of the budget board - these people who have 3 and 4 kids, collecting WIC and have internet access make me sick to my stomach.

Now I know accidents/surprises happen but these are not the type of people this assistance was put into the place for. If you can afford to go to Disney, then you can afford to buy your own cheese! What's worse is these are the people that make it harder for everyone else out there to use the program and not get bashed. How many times have we seen it right here on the DIS where people look down on those using assistance. There are people out there who truly do need, and then there are those who are abusing the system out of pure greed. And yes I call it greed to collect food on another's persons dollar while saving your own pennies to go on a deluxe vacation.

I don't know how these people sleep at night.

~Amanda

 

[minnieandme]

I have always thought of those that really need the assitance programs in answering these questions.

But then I got wind of the budget board - these people who have 3 and 4 kids, collecting WIC and have internet access make me sick to my stomach.
Now I know accidents/surprises happen but these are not the type of people this assistance was put into the place for. If you can afford to go to Disney, then you can afford to buy your own cheese! What's worse is these are the people that make it harder for everyone else out there to use the program and not get bashed. How many times have we seen it right here on the DIS where people look down on those using assistance. There are people out there who truly do need, and then there are those who are abusing the system out of pure greed. And yes I call it greed to collect food on another's persons dollar while saving your own pennies to go on a deluxe vacation.

I don't know how these people sleep at night.

~Amanda

WIC is for low income families. The internet rates are pretty reasonable now. I don't know about you, but I'm paying $10/mo for internet service. Don't forget, you can always use the internet at the library.

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

WIC is for low income families. The internet rates are pretty reasonable now. I don't know about you, but I'm paying $10/mo for internet service. Don't forget, you can always use the internet at the library.

Yes WIC is for low income but should low income be spending the money to go to Disney?

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

People on Assistance of ANY kind should not have more children while receiving it. We could not get WIC when we could have used it because we made too much money. We did not have more kids than we could afford but ended up with a child on hypo allergenic formula that we really couldn't afford easily but we had no choice. She was even allergic to breast milk and I can not produce enough anyway so that wasn't a choice. I picked up another part time job to cover the expense. It was our problem so we resolved it on our own.

 

[minnieandme]

Yes WIC is for low income but should low income be spending the money to go to Disney?

That's the part I'm still scratching my head on. I don't know how they do it, but I'd sure like to know how.

 

[ducklite]

I want to step in here to make one thing perfectly clear. IMHO, if a person is receiving food stamps, WIC, ADFC, or Medicaid for dependent children that are not their children--in other words they are raising a friend or relatives children because that person was unfit, is deceased, or possibly serving on active duty--and they take a vacation or begin a family of their own that they would have no problem supporting, I've got no problems with that situation. To take on the additional burden of raising someone elses children out of the love of your heart should not penalize you financially.

Anne

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

That's the part I'm still scratching my head on. I don't know how they do it, but I'd sure like to know how.

Me too because I have to buy all of our food and still pay for our Disney trips and it's hard.

 

[BellePrincessBelle]

I want to step in here to make one thing perfectly clear. IMHO, if a person is receiving food stamps, WIC, ADFC, or Medicaid for dependent children that are not their children--in other words they are raising a friend or relatives children because that person was unfit, is deceased, or possibly serving on active duty--and they take a vacation or begin a family of their own that they would have no problem supporting, I've got no problems with that situation. To take on the additional burden of raising someone elses children out of the love of your heart should not penalize you financially.

Anne

I can live with that one

 

[PattnFmly]

Too bad we can't pick where our taxes go. Just like you can pick your percentages if you donate to the United Way. I'd put the tiniest portion available into welfare etc, and put most of mine into schools and bridges/roads. Then we'd see exactly how many tax-paying people support welfare!