Do you think I am wrong?

[ohlas]

LOL. remember Muushka, we're old. and some time that's not a bad thing. WE can imagine an time when people did fully function with out electronic gadgets so for us the thought of not having a cell phone would bother us for maybe 1.5 secs. we know we would simply deal and move on to more important things.

I think cell phones are just this generations "cool clothes" or as some one else says status symbol. As nutzy as it sounds the cell phone would give the teen more comfort because it makes hime the "same" as all the other kids and I don't care what anyone says, H.S. is pretty much the same, kids want to fit it. Remember, they have no control over the housing issue. Also some adults may be thinking the ability to get their kids a jazzy phone is some thing they can do, they can control that. Sort of like when parents divorce, they over compensate with gifts for not being there.

Another example, most of the kids I work with are girls. When girls are in the 7th & 8th grade, they beat the pants off of boys in science and math. By 10th grade though they start "dumbing" down. Why? every message society sends them says being "skinny, pretty and popular" is way better than being "smart". Having the latest "jeans" gives them an identity. My niece had the nerve to ask me to buy her a pair of $150 lucky jeans. Now in my world the only time an unemployed 10th grader should have 150 dollar jeans is if she is Rihanna or Beyounce and is doing 2 shows a night at the Apollo.

I get a little peeved at the parents though, because this is when you step in and have that little chat about cash flow.

I have 6 pairs of lucky jeans i love them but i didnt pay 150.00 more like 20.. each but they are the best..

 

[Muushka]

It's funny. When I started this thread I was hopeful that something might be done to help these people. The more I heard different views on the subject, the more irritated I got and realize that no, there is probably nothing to change people's minds about their spending.

Again, thanks to all who have helped me on the subject.

 

[OceanAnnie]

What a great saying that is. And I can see where it would be very true.

This thread has been quite the eye opener for me. Actually, I am stunned at some of the mentality. And it makes me understand how people can get into these financial messes. Which sadly, affects the people who make wise choices.

I love gadgets and electronics. I would love a cell that I could use the internet on or call anyone I want anytime I want anywhere in the continental United States. But I have a $5 a month plan, because I CHOOSE not to waste my money on such things. And then I turn around and donate time and money to organizations that help people who frankly, don't deserve it. This will be the last family I will work with that has expensive cell plans. It is an indicator of a much larger problem.

One thing that I did not mention is that this program has a waiting list a mile long (as you can imagine). In my opinion, people who enter a program such as this with cell plans in excess of $125 a months screams that this person has no desire to spend their money wisely. And they do not deserve to get the help that is being offered. Step aside and let the next family in who will do better.

Carry on.....I am certain I will get plenty of flames for my beliefs, but enough is enough. I will help those who help themselves.
Thank you all for the insight and suggestions.

Oh, follow up. I stopped at the cell provider and she can cut her bill in half without having to pay a penalty.
I am sure that will go over like a lead baloon.

You are not alone in your thinking. Trust me.

What happened to looking at the bottom line? Has affordability lost it's meaning?!? It's a prime example of why we as a country are in the trouble we are today.

I think you are a very good person for the job. People do need a wake up call. They can't be coddled into thinking overspending is okay, when clearly overspending contributed to where they are today. You don't want someone counseling people that won't tell them like it is.

 

[leahjade]

funny what has become "needs" in this society! A family who was about to lose their home was interviewed in our local paper and the reporter asked them if they had given up their cellphones and cable television, and they said "they couldn't live without their phones and cable." They would rather lose their home than make any kind of sacrifice. I don't know how our parents and grandparents managed to get through the day without such basic neccessities!

 

[Pigeon]

In a volunteer job like that, you are going to help some people. Some people, not so much. It goes with the territory--I've done similar things.

If you expect that everybody is going to agree that you have the answer to their problems, you are going to burn out fast and maybe it's not a good fit for you.

 

[bettymae1121]

You are not alone in your thinking. Trust me.

What happened to looking at the bottom line? Has affordability lost it's meaning?!? It's a prime example of why we as a country are in the trouble we are today.

I think you are a very good person for the job. People do need a wake up call. They can't be coddled into thinking overspending is okay, when clearly overspending contributed to where they are today. You don't want someone counseling people that won't tell them like it is.

Where did anyone here tell you to counsel people that over spending is okay? Even those in the "pro cell phone under certain circumstances" camp said by all means, help the people figure out ways to get the cell phone for less.

I hate blanket statements like "cell phones are not a need". That is certainly true for many, if not most, people. It is NOT true for ALL people. For your current client, it may be true. For your next client, that phone may be esential for keeping what little income they have as it's a job requirement (and not all jobs will pay for you to have a phone). The client after that may have child with a severe medical condition (think transplant list) and having a cell is litterally life or death. Think of the 16 year old girl that has to walk home from school in a dangerous neighborhood, wouldn't you want her to have a cell phone?

Having an absolute rule of "you must cancel your cell to join our program" could drive otherwise suitable people away from your program, because doing away with their cell will cause more problems than it solves.

 

[OceanAnnie]

Where did anyone here tell you to counsel people that over spending is okay? Even those in the "pro cell phone under certain circumstances" camp said by all means, help the people figure out ways to get the cell phone for less.

I hate blanket statements like "cell phones are not a need". That is certainly true for many, if not most, people. It is NOT true for ALL people. For your current client, it may be true. For your next client, that phone may be esential for keeping what little income they have as it's a job requirement (and not all jobs will pay for you to have a phone). The client after that may have child with a severe medical condition (think transplant list) and having a cell is litterally life or death. Think of the 16 year old girl that has to walk home from school in a dangerous neighborhood, wouldn't you want her to have a cell phone?

Having an absolute rule of "you must cancel your cell to join our program" could drive otherwise suitable people away from your program, because doing away with their cell will cause more problems than it solves.

It was between the lines. There are less expensive plans available and free phones. But there are plenty of posters here that *seem* to advocate keeping the phone contract at the current, high rate.

 

[fakereadhed]

You are not alone in your thinking. Trust me.

What happened to looking at the bottom line? Has affordability lost it's meaning?!? It's a prime example of why we as a country are in the trouble we are today.

I think you are a very good person for the job. People do need a wake up call. They can't be coddled into thinking overspending is okay, when clearly overspending contributed to where they are today. You don't want someone counseling people that won't tell them like it is.

 

[bettymae1121]

It was between the lines. There are less expensive plans available and free phones. But there are plenty of posters here that *seem* to advocate keeping the phone contract at the current, high rate.

The only posts that said that were ones that were concerned that the cancelation fees may be more than the savings were worth. For some plans that can very easily be the case, or the person may not have that $500 cancel fee to pay upfront. Sure over a few months they'd get that money back in savings, but they may not be able to afford the lump sum.

Now, In the OP's situation, that isn't the case, she later posted that she was able to confirm her client should be able to switch plans to cut the monthly fees in half with NO penalty. If she presents that to the client, and they still refuse to make the change...THEN I totally would be on her side, they are clearly not "getting it". But she hasn't told them yet and is assuming how they'll react instead.

 

[eliza61]

It's funny. When I started this thread I was hopeful that something might be done to help these people. The more I heard different views on the subject, the more irritated I got and realize that no, there is probably nothing to change people's minds about their spending.

Again, thanks to all who have helped me on the subject.

NO, NO, no don't give up. Sure some won't change their ways but you know some thing some will. Remember for the most part we (national mind set) did not go from savers to spenders over night. During the 60's most people did not have major cc's and were savers. Now every one has cc debt (average) and we are have a negative savings rate. This didn't just pop up over night, we (once again, the old collective we) got use to living high on the hog so to speak. Now we have to relearn those tools.

Sure some folks are going to go down kicking and screaming. Hey you should see me every time I get the urge to buy more dvc points and know darn well I can't afford it. But some folks will say "ok, I'll try the trac phone" but none of them will get the message if you give up.

 

[iwrbnd]

It's all a matter of priority. People choose less impt things to spend their money on because they want to and not because it's smart! Choosing a cell phone over groceris or rent is not smart!

I used to do home-visits while my husband was in med school. We were so broke & really wanted a VCR since we couldn't afford the movies but it wasn't in our budget. Well, I would go on home-visits where the families were being supported by the state and guess what? Every one of them not only had a VCR but a large screen tv!

Now, fast forward to today. My husband volunteers at a free clinic on his day off. I went there one day and a patient he just saw went to his car where he had a Sharpei dog waiting for him. Knowing they were expensive dogs I asked him about it. He said it had been a stray. I felt guilty for judging him until he started telling me about all the surgery the dog has had! What? My husband is giving you free medical care because you can't afford it but you can pay for your dogs care? MAYBE the vet gave his services, too but I don't know!

Now I love dogs and I still go on home-visits helping those less fortunate so I don't want to sound rude but sometimes I think people don't want to make the tough choices on what they need vs what they want. It sounds like they need a land line but want a cell phone.

 

[OceanAnnie]

The only posts that said that were ones that were concerned that the cancelation fees may be more than the savings were worth. For some plans that can very easily be the case, or the person may not have that $500 cancel fee to pay upfront. Sure over a few months they'd get that money back in savings, but they may not be able to afford the lump sum.

Now, In the OP's situation, that isn't the case, she later posted that she was able to confirm her client should be able to switch plans to cut the monthly fees in half with NO penalty. If she presents that to the client, and they still refuse to make the change...THEN I totally would be on her side, they are clearly not "getting it". But she hasn't told them yet and is assuming how they'll react instead.

IIRC, I read various reasons to keep the phone plan they have. It wasn't all about the penalty fee. Teens needing to be "in" was one of them.

As far a the last line, the OP has been working with them and probably does have an indication as to how they will react. You do get a feel for people when you work with them intimately.

 

[Colleen27]

funny what has become "needs" in this society! A family who was about to lose their home was interviewed in our local paper and the reporter asked them if they had given up their cellphones and cable television, and they said "they couldn't live without their phones and cable." They would rather lose their home than make any kind of sacrifice. I don't know how our parents and grandparents managed to get through the day without such basic neccessities!

Until you've been there, I'm not sure anyone can really understand what it is like. We have friends and neighbors who have lost their homes, some who cut back to bare bones and others who basically just lived as normal while preparing to move, and the sad fact is that all giving up cable and cell phones does is makes life more difficult/less enjoyable while the foreclosure goes on ahead. Saving a couple hundred dollars a month isn't going to add up to enough to stop a foreclosure. By the time it gets to that point, it takes thousands or tens of thousands to save the house, and I can understand why someone would take a "why bother" attitude about giving up cable in that situation.

 

[luvthemouse71]

Some people do need a cell phone(not kids though), I have to have one for my job because I take call for the OR. Now, I'm sure some will say "people took call before there were cell phones" True, but that meant you were literally stuck in the house for 24 hours, so not worth it when you're only getting $1.75 to $2.00 an hour to be on call.

There are cheaper plans and prepaid.The only thing with prepaid is that most people end up using it more than they thought. My mom was an example of this..she had a prepaid..then my Grandmother got sick so between calling doctors and notifying family etc she was paying through the nose. I ended up putting her on my plan.

Maybe allowing the adults to have a cell phone but putting a cap on the cost of the plan is the way to go. And some of these phones look fancy, but you can often get them free or cheap when you sign up for the plan. My cousin got her Blackberry pretty cheap this way.

I love how threads like this bring out all the Luddites .I work with nurses like this as well,they brag about how computer illiterate they are.Hope I'm not like that when I'm old..Not likely , my mom started off hating all this stuff-she loves it now.

I can understand frustration with people on assistance though..my hospital is located in what most people would call the ghetto..on my way to work, I've taken to counting the satillite dishes on the run down homes..almost every house has multiples(triple decker houses). Yet, many of these people will show up in the ER with no insurance..we have to treat them. This is what really is affecting the health care system..

 

[Muushka]

I was careful to ask this question on the Budget Board.
Can you imagine what would have happened to me if i asked it on the Community Board!

 

[Ka' eo]

IIRC, I read various reasons to keep the phone plan they have. It wasn't all about the penalty fee. Teens needing to be "in" was one of them.

As far a the last line, the OP has been working with them and probably does have an indication as to how they will react. You do get a feel for people when you work with them intimately.

I was one that discussed the issue of being marginalized as a homelessl, poverty stricken teen. That is a FAR cry from being "in". I discussed leveling the playing field 'in their mind'. In that very same post, I encouraged the OP to get support from the organization she/he works for in order to get backup to create a policy that would support her concerns about expensive cell phone plans. I also stated that I agreed that was expensive.

However, as this thread has run it's course, and the OP has posted more, their judgement and condenscending view of this family and those like them, has left me (and perhaps others) suspecting that this view is coming across to the family in question. Their unwillingness to respond to suggestions may be a reflection of that, not the actual changes being suggested.

Not one poster has advocated keeping an expensive plan. Folks have commented on why a cell phone MAY be important to this family, and of course others like them. This is for perspective, balance and above all, empathy. Without those things one will not be effective working with families like these, IMHO.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I was one that discussed the issue of being marginalized as a homelessl, poverty stricken teen. That is a FAR cry from being "in". I discussed leveling the playing field 'in their mind'. In that very same post, I encouraged the OP to get support from the organization she/he works for in order to get backup to create a policy that would support her concerns about expensive cell phone plans. I also stated that I agreed that was expensive.

However, as this thread has run it's course, and the OP has posted more, their judgement and condenscending view of this family and those like them, has left me (and perhaps others) suspecting that this view is coming across to the family in question. Their unwillingness to respond to suggestions may be a reflection of that, not the actual changes being suggested.

Not one poster has advocated keeping an expensive plan. Folks have commented on why a cell phone MAY be important to this family, and of course others like them. This is for perspective, balance and above all, empathy. Without those things one will not be effective working with families like these, IMHO.

Actually, if you go back and read the posts you were one of several. I guess those posts can be perceived in different ways, but they appeared in more than one case to be advocating cell phones for teens so they were not different. Not too much far crying there.

I'm all for empathy and budgeting.

 

[luvthemouse71]

YES! And my suspicion is that things "will go over like a lead balloon" because of this type of attitude. Being in a tough spot is humiliating and feels hopeless. Will people take advice from someone who is judgmental and condescending? Doubtful. All that does is shame them more.

The OP may have what's called "compassion fatigue" or burnout. Happens alot to those in healthcare as well. It is a sign that you need to find another area to work in..when you start viewing patients as the enemy, that's a bad, bad sign.

I see some real doozies for patients..people that ended up in my OR because of drinking and driving, riding their motorcycle while high, getting into gang fights. We even get inmates from the local prison. But, I'm not there to judge, I'm there to help..the trick is to realize that you can offer help but not everyone will change their ways..you can think whatever you want about people, but you have to treat everyone with the same level of dignity. You also can't take things personally. Compassion but with a certain amount of distance..otherwise, you burnout.

 

[Ka' eo]

Actually, if you go back and read the posts you were one of several. I guess those posts can be perceived in different ways, but they appeared in more than one case to be advocating cell phones for teens so they were not different. Not too much far crying there.

I'm all for empathy and budgeting.

I work in k-12 schools. I hate phones for kids. It has been a scourge on society! I mean that. But I do understand why some families feel they want them. My children will have to prove they are responsible, earn their own phones and minutes, keep the minutes to a reasonable amount, stay up on their grades and perhaps I'll let them get them when they are 25.

 

[OceanAnnie]

I work in k-12 schools. I hate phones for kids. It has been a scourge on society! I mean that. But I do understand why some families feel they want them. My children will have to prove they are responsible, earn their own phones and minutes, keep the minutes to a reasonable amount, stay up on their grades and perhaps I'll let them get them when they are 25.

Mine are too young for the debate. I'm more concerned about the radiation exposure for kids (and adults too). There is such conflicting information. Always something to be mindful of (I mean for me).