Do you think I am wrong?

[Colleen27]

I also want to add that my DH and I are 30. We only use our cell phones in emergencies. My DH is a very successful Manager in IS (which is a highly techy field) and we both have a basic cell plan (I believe it's $5 and pay by the minute). Our cell phone bills are never over $30. If something breaks down at DH's work, he needs to get it fixed ASAP, or the company will lose a LOT of money. Somehow we manage to get by with just our basic phone plan. I don't think he would be where he is today if they were upset about us not having a high end cell phone plan!!!

I guess my point is, you don't need a high end cell phone plan to make it in the world today. You can still be very successful at your job without it. I have NEVER heard of anyone getting fired because they didn't have a cell phone, or because they didn't have a high end cell phone plan.

It really depends on one's profession. DH's business is very time-sensitive and his ability to book jobs depends largely on being available to answer the phone rather than returning calls later. When a customer is calling about a broken pipe or a leaking roof you need to be available NOW, not when you get home to get the message. By then, that customer will have called someone else. And since so much of his work is short-notice, we absolutely expect that our regular guys will have cell phones and generally be reachable for when those urgent repair calls come in. It doesn't take a high end plan, but the cell phone is important.

And I do the math every time our cell contract comes up - for us, with the volume of calls DH takes/makes in the course of business, a per-minute phone wouldn't make any sense. And once you've got the primary phone, the $10 per phone add-on with unlimited mobile-to-mobile is cheaper for my and DS's lines than any other option. ETA: I'm not defending the $140 plan specifically, just illustrating that a pre-paid isn't always the best choice - for 3 of us to have phones that share enough minutes that we don't go over is under $100.

 

[Colleen27]

They have a landline, they can use that for job applications and such.

Unfortunately, that is a handicap when looking for entry-level work these days. If you're the manager of a retail store and have a hundred acceptable applications to choose from for one opening, you're not likely to patiently wait around for a return call from any one of those applicants. You're going to schedule interviews with the people who answer their phone and select one of them.

 

[Pigeon]

Respectfully, if I were in a situation where I was near homelessness, my DH and I would be applying some hard fast rules to get out of it. You have to dig yourself out of the hole you are in and keeping a plan outside of your budget won't get you out soonest, if at all.

As would my dh and I. But that's a different thing than having an outsider develop hard and fast rules for any number of families not her own, where those rules may or may not necessarily be the best decision for every single family that she sees.

 

[luvsJack]

Respectfully, if I were in a situation where I was near homelessness, my DH and I would be applying some hard fast rules to get out of it. You have to dig yourself out of the hole you are in and keeping a plan outside of your budget won't get you out soonest, if at all.

I think, though, that the difference is in exactly what you have said "dh and I would be . . ." You would be making your own choices. I agree that keeping a plan outside your budget will not help anyone, but making the rule that the cell phone has to go may not be good either.

Hopefully, the family would make their own choice to make the very change the OP wants them to; but wouldn't it be better to councel them toward that choice instead of making it for them? In that way maybe the next time they could make the choice all by themselves.

 

[mrsklamc]

As a society, we tend to be very giving. In general, we don't WANT others to be uncomfortable. Unfortunately, there are some people who are going to make unwise choices with their money until there is no other choice than to BE uncomfortable. You can require them to give up their expensive cell phones, but they will then see YOU as the bad guy.

I'm not saying this very well I guess, but- you can force them to give up the phones, but you have to teach them WHY they are doing it, and they have to embrace it, or all you've done is make them mad at you.

I know not everyone loves Dave Ramsey but he says "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."

I get what you are saying though OP. Virtually everyone who seeks assistance from the agency I'm with spends hundreds to thousands on cigarettes a year.

 

[luvsJack]

I also want to add that my DH and I are 30. We only use our cell phones in emergencies. My DH is a very successful Manager in IS (which is a highly techy field) and we both have a basic cell plan (I believe it's $5 and pay by the minute). Our cell phone bills are never over $30. If something breaks down at DH's work, he needs to get it fixed ASAP, or the company will lose a LOT of money. Somehow we manage to get by with just our basic phone plan. I don't think he would be where he is today if they were upset about us not having a high end cell phone plan!!!

I guess my point is, you don't need a high end cell phone plan to make it in the world today. You can still be very successful at your job without it. I have NEVER heard of anyone getting fired because they didn't have a cell phone, or because they didn't have a high end cell phone plan.

Yes, my dh CAN be fired if he does not have a cell phone. He drives a truck and was told when he was hired that he is REQUIRED to have a cell phone. The company he works for, the load brokers, and the companies whose load he is hauling (hauling to and from) must be able to reach him. Can't do that using pay phones that are not available anyway. And if his office tries to reach him and cannot it can cost him money, if a broker tries to reach him and cannot it can cost the company money and him a job.

He has a more expensive plan because we have tried every other plan offered by our cell company and still had to pay for extra minutes and such. Because he is always on the road he has to have national minutes (that is what its called with our cell company for calling from out of area), long distance, etc. For us, it was cheaper on an average over the year to have an unlimited plan. It includes things like texting, which he doesn't use, but there was not way to pick and choose some of the service.

His company pays him a small amount each month toward the phone bill but it doesn't even pay half of the bill.

 

[Ka' eo]

I think, though, that the difference is in exactly what you have said "dh and I would be . . ." You would be making your own choices. I agree that keeping a plan outside your budget will not help anyone, but making the rule that the cell phone has to go may not be good either.

Hopefully, the family would make their own choice to make the very change the OP wants them to; but wouldn't it be better to councel them toward that choice instead of making it for them? In that way maybe the next time they could make the choice all by themselves.

Yes, ITA.

Are you wrong in feeling as though they are making poor judgments regarding finances? No. You are wrong however, judging them and considering dictating their lives. It appears you came here looking for people who agree with you, not how other's feel. Lighten up and find some other way to help if this is not working for you. There are a lot of things people do that I don't agree with. Don't get me going about people who have child after child in a world that is overpopulated and underresourced, AND can't pay for them. But I work with these people (IMHO) pretty effectively because I can understand and focus on doing what I can. I'm out of this one. Lest not ye judge that you may be judged yourself.....

Good luck coming to some sort of conclusion, and I still think this is a policy issue that would be easy to implement as a requirement and would have nothing to do with personal feelings.

 

[OceanAnnie]

As would my dh and I. But that's a different thing than having an outsider develop hard and fast rules for any number of families not her own, where those rules may or may not necessarily be the best decision for every single family that she sees.

I think, though, that the difference is in exactly what you have said "dh and I would be . . ." You would be making your own choices. I agree that keeping a plan outside your budget will not help anyone, but making the rule that the cell phone has to go may not be good either.

Hopefully, the family would make their own choice to make the very change the OP wants them to; but wouldn't it be better to councel them toward that choice instead of making it for them? In that way maybe the next time they could make the choice all by themselves.

I understand both points. Mine is but another POV.

Ultimately, the cards must be laid on the table. There needs to be some sort of paradigm shift. You can't keep doing the same things that got you in an uncomfortable situation and expect change. As stated up thread there are alternatives available to the $140 a month they are spending that includes a cell phone. It maybe not the type of service they have currently, but one that will do.

 

[MyDizneyBoyz]

I'm not saying this very well I guess, but- you can force them to give up the phones, but you have to teach them WHY they are doing it, and they have to embrace it, or all you've done is make them mad at you.

I know not everyone loves Dave Ramsey but he says "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."

Ditto!!

I think education is key, even though getting through to some folks can be frustratingly difficult. It may be an easier pill to take if it's given with the tone of "Look, you can't afford this right now. Let's get something cheaper, get you back on your feet, and then in the future you may be able to come back to it." Make regaining the ability to afford the cell phone as a goal to strive for, let them know it's not the end of the world, and that with some planning and budgeting they can have it again in the future.

For some people, taking away something they view as important can be like opening a chasm under their feet and they don't know what to do and how to get across so they just rebel. But if you suggest a timeframe for working to be able to afford it again, then they might be able to see themselves building a bridge across the chasm and getting back what is important to them.

It's not an easy job and good luck to you! I know I have a skewed viewpoint as well as I was raised to be frugal and am teaching my kids the same way. No instant gratification in this house! If you want it, you can work for it.

 

[NotUrsula]

What's key to this discussion IMO is that a contract phone plan is a fixed expense. When you are financially on the edge, eliminating as many fixed expenses as possible is crucially important. It's one thing to choose to spend a certain amount in a given month as a one-time thing, but to have many continuing financial obligations that you cannot get out of is poisonous to financial recovery when you are in these kinds of straits.

They need to be off the contract and on a pay-as-you-go type phone plan. If they make that switch then the phone bill becomes a bill that can go unpaid with no accrual of late fees -- an escape valve if one is needed.

So, that's my advice on your policy issue. Don't require people to drop the phone entirely, but require them to convert to a prepaid no-contract plan. All of the phone service providers have them in one form or another.

 

[SandrA9810]

Well 140 sounds a little steep for just two lines. We've got the bells and whistles on our phones for 4 lines and pay that much.

I think the best choice is teaching them how to shop budget minded. Looking to compare phone companies and choices. And you should be able to change the amount of minutes to a lesser plan without breaking the contract or paying any fees. Same with taking off unlimited texting and data plans.
If they have smartphones, that require unlimited data plans and such. Take them to the store and purchase a prepaid phone from the same company, and they can place thier sim card in it. So you can get rid of all the extra stuff. (I know this works with AT&T, and the go phones, because I bought a cheap 20$ phone when I lost mine to have until the next free upgrade).

You're there to help them, not take everything away. So you have to write everything down... number it in order of importance, and say "how are you going to afford what you want?" Then show them ways of how to save a little on those things.

1. Roof - can't really change market rates of renting. The cheaper you, the worse neighborhood you get into.
2. Food - it's the budget board... every one knows how to save hundreds at the grocery store around here. It's probably the simplest and easiest thing to teach them, which can carry over into other shopping habits.
3. clothing - I never understood when people budget in money for clothing, I've been wearing the same clothes for years and years. Here and there I've bought a new pair of jeans or sweatshirt. My most recent purchase was a 7$ pair of imperfect jeans from VF factory because I needed another pair for work. But there's consignment shops and thrift stores with great options too.
4. cable - some people feel they can't live without it. So shw them how to shop around companies, go with basic packages instead of the movie deluxe. Sign up for netflix or go to the redbox for movie rentals.
5. internet - I think this is just as touchy and cell phones. I lived without the internet for 6 yrs, and only got it because we needed a room-mate. But most libraries have decent hours, and it's always free.
6. utilities - there's always a ton of ways to cut back. Learning to unplug things, turn lights off, use CFL bulbs, use the microwave instead of the oven. Use cold water settings on the wash instead of hot, line dry clothes and put them in the dryer at the very end to "fluff" up the clothes. Limit shower times to save on hot water. Turn the temp back a few degrees on the hot water. Hand wash instead of a dishwasher.

If you can cut their budget back in other areas, maybe that cell phone plan won't be so hard to pay for down the road. There really is a whole picture to this story. And taking a small slice out of it doesn't really make it easy for us to see their needs.

 

[Muushka]

I know not everyone loves Dave Ramsey but he says "Those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still."
snip...

What a great saying that is. And I can see where it would be very true.

This thread has been quite the eye opener for me. Actually, I am stunned at some of the mentality. And it makes me understand how people can get into these financial messes. Which sadly, affects the people who make wise choices.

I love gadgets and electronics. I would love a cell that I could use the internet on or call anyone I want anytime I want anywhere in the continental United States. But I have a $5 a month plan, because I CHOOSE not to waste my money on such things. And then I turn around and donate time and money to organizations that help people who frankly, don't deserve it. This will be the last family I will work with that has expensive cell plans. It is an indicator of a much larger problem.

One thing that I did not mention is that this program has a waiting list a mile long (as you can imagine). In my opinion, people who enter a program such as this with cell plans in excess of $125 a months screams that this person has no desire to spend their money wisely. And they do not deserve to get the help that is being offered. Step aside and let the next family in who will do better.

Carry on.....I am certain I will get plenty of flames for my beliefs, but enough is enough. I will help those who help themselves.
Thank you all for the insight and suggestions.

Oh, follow up. I stopped at the cell provider and she can cut her bill in half without having to pay a penalty.
I am sure that will go over like a lead baloon.

 

[SandrA9810]

have you provided this information to her about the plan she could have?? Now if she doesn't take it, well then it's time to say "sorry, but can't help you".

you can only help those that are willing to help themselves. And it's sad when you do go out of your way for nothing.

 

[jodifla]

What a great saying that is. And I can see where it would be very true.

This thread has been quite the eye opener for me. Actually, I am stunned at some of the mentality. And it makes me understand how people can get into these financial messes. Which sadly, affects the people who make wise choices.

I love gadgets and electronics. I would love a cell that I could use the internet on or call anyone I want anytime I want anywhere in the continental United States. But I have a $5 a month plan, because I CHOOSE not to waste my money on such things. And then I turn around and donate time and money to organizations that help people who frankly, don't deserve it. This will be the last family I will work with that has expensive cell plans. It is an indicator of a much larger problem.

One thing that I did not mention is that this program has a waiting list a mile long (as you can imagine). In my opinion, people who enter a program such as this with cell plans in excess of $125 a months screams that this person has no desire to spend their money wisely. And they do not deserve to get the help that is being offered. Step aside and let the next family in who will do better.

Carry on.....I am certain I will get plenty of flames for my beliefs, but enough is enough. I will help those who help themselves.
Thank you all for the insight and suggestions.

Oh, follow up. I stopped at the cell provider and she can cut her bill in half without having to pay a penalty.
I am sure that will go over like a lead baloon.

Since this is your attitude, then this is the wrong volunteering job for you.

It's like a teacher saying: "This kindergartner can't cut or color or draw or read." Uh, why do you think they are at school? To LEARN. And that's what your job is as a teacher.

Your job is as a resource provider. It's to educate. It's not to judge. If you are working in a place like that, you are already by definition working with people who are either uneducated about money, or have fallen on hard times by catastrophe and job loss.

Will it be easy? Absolutely not. But really, what did you expect when you went in there?

 

[Muushka]

I just found out today. We meet next week. We can't throw people out of the program for things such as this. They have a 4 month commitment from us, providing they follow house rules. Getting rid of expensive cell plans is not one of them, sadly.

Will it be easy? Absolutely not. But really, what did you expect when you went in there?

When I began 4 years ago, $140 cell plans did not exist. I expect people to take responsibility for their situation and do whatever they can to get out of it. Which does not include constantly holding your hand out asking others to give to you. I am not telling the whole story here, I didn't want to bog down the actual question that I asked in the thread.

You are right, I have no business working with families that make poor choices and have no desire to change.

 

[bettymae1121]

What a great saying that is. And I can see where it would be very true.

This thread has been quite the eye opener for me. Actually, I am stunned at some of the mentality. And it makes me understand how people can get into these financial messes. Which sadly, affects the people who make wise choices.

I love gadgets and electronics. I would love a cell that I could use the internet on or call anyone I want anytime I want anywhere in the continental United States. But I have a $5 a month plan, because I CHOOSE not to waste my money on such things. And then I turn around and donate time and money to organizations that help people who frankly, don't deserve it. This will be the last family I will work with that has expensive cell plans. It is an indicator of a much larger problem.

One thing that I did not mention is that this program has a waiting list a mile long (as you can imagine). In my opinion, people who enter a program such as this with cell plans in excess of $125 a months screams that this person has no desire to spend their money wisely. And they do not deserve to get the help that is being offered. Step aside and let the next family in who will do better.

Carry on.....I am certain I will get plenty of flames for my beliefs, but enough is enough. I will help those who help themselves.
Thank you all for the insight and suggestions.:good vibes

Oh, follow up. I stopped at the cell provider and she can cut her bill in half without having to pay a penalty.
I am sure that will go over like a lead balloon.:roll eyes:

I totally get why you feel this way, but as I'm sure you know, all situations are different. While your current client is being hard headed about it, your next client may embrace cell phone savings like a long lost friend. What seems like common sense to you and I may just not ever occur to somebody else. Let's face it, if they were smart about finances to begin with, you'd have a lot fewer people clamoring for your services. They would have already made all the cuts they could to keep their heads above water.

I've seen debt reduction shows full of up-to-their-eyeballs-in-debt people that have to have reality beaten over their heads by whatever financial guru is on TV that day. It takes weeks, sometimes months, for the person to finally break down and say "You're right, I'm an idiot. I need help and I"m willing to do everything you tell me to". And the debtors profiled are often upper class and highly educated. People who are from working class backgrounds with limited education may take even longer to convince.

If you are truly burned out, then you should absolutely at least take a break from this. I can only imagine how hard it is to try and convince people to do things that are in their own self interest, only to be met with a brick wall. After a few months off, perhaps you'll be willing to give it another go.

 

[Ka' eo]

Since this is your attitude, then this is the wrong volunteering job for you.

It's like a teacher saying: "This kindergartner can't cut or color or draw or read." Uh, why do you think they are at school? To LEARN. And that's what your job is as a teacher.

Your job is as a resource provider. It's to educate. It's not to judge. If you are working in a place like that, you are already by definition working with people who are either uneducated about money, or have fallen on hard times by catastrophe and job loss.

Will it be easy? Absolutely not. But really, what did you expect when you went in there?

YES! And my suspicion is that things "will go over like a lead balloon" because of this type of attitude. Being in a tough spot is humiliating and feels hopeless. Will people take advice from someone who is judgmental and condescending? Doubtful. All that does is shame them more.

 

[Kay1]

Since this is your attitude, then this is the wrong volunteering job for you.

It's like a teacher saying: "This kindergartner can't cut or color or draw or read." Uh, why do you think they are at school? To LEARN. And that's what your job is as a teacher.

Your job is as a resource provider. It's to educate. It's not to judge. If you are working in a place like that, you are already by definition working with people who are either uneducated about money, or have fallen on hard times by catastrophe and job loss.

Will it be easy? Absolutely not. But really, what did you expect when you went in there?

Amen, sister! And, as always, we can't believe everything we read on the internet.

 

[luvsJack]

I just found out today. We meet next week. We can't throw people out of the program for things such as this. They have a 4 month commitment from us, providing they follow house rules. Getting rid of expensive cell plans is not one of them, sadly.



When I began 4 years ago, $140 cell plans did not exist. I expect people to take responsibility for their situation and do whatever they can to get out of it. Which does not include constantly holding your hand out asking others to give to you. I am not telling the whole story here, I didn't want to bog down the actual question that I asked in the thread.

You are right, I have no business working with families that make poor choices and have no desire to change.

But 4 years ago when they couldn't spend $140 on a cell phone plan maybe they were spending it on something else.

I think you need to step back and figure out if this is really the volunteering job for you. If you can't go in with a clear desire to help and not judge, they don't need you.

Its about choices and they are obviously making the wrong ones but it needs to be their choices. The right choices don't need to be made for them, they need to learn how to make the right ones.

What you see as a refusal to change, they may see as hanging on to their dignity. And your attitude toward them certainly is not helping them any.

 

[LisaNJ25]

Heck no you are not wrong!! The can get some kind of free cell phone from the gov't with 60 min a month. Tell them to look into that. I don't really know much about it but have read that somewhere. Cell phones are not a necessity especially for kids! Heck they can even get a prepaid cell for a lot cheaper then 140/mo. Thing is they have to retrain themselves to only use cells for emergencies and stick to the free land line your agency provides them.

yep, my neighbor has one of those since she gets foodstamps. Although they have an expensive plan with 3 phones and give the "free" government one to their 7yo daughter to use.