Do you think Disney will require vaccinations for Covid to board?

[jane01jp]

DCL is gonna have a hard time even filling ships at a lower capacity anytime soon if there are all these restrictions. Very few families will be spending the 5K plus it takes for a family to cruise to have reduced options, possibly less hours available for the kids to be in the clubs. Cruising is viewed as relaxing and not something people are gonna want to pre plan there hours so they can have there pool chair or kids in the clubs. Then you have the other side that a lot of people like to cruise for the social side of meeting new people which won't really happen as well if there is still fear.

I do see Carnival, RCL being able to pull off their cheaper 3 night cruises that mainly attract people wanting to hang out and drink but they will still face with the issue of space and other issues.

I tend to agree. One of the things that has occurred to me is that even if COVID were instantly wiped out today, the obsession with health and cleanliness will persist for a while. That could be a good thing, within reason, but I expect there to be a reasonably lengthy half-life to the health obsession.

 

[sethschroeder]

so therefore DCL will require it BECUASE the Bahama Government require it.

But it's not DCL though it's the Bahama government.

DCL is just following laws.

 

[BartmanLA]

The requirement for vaccination is a two edged sword, DCL could require it simply to eliminate any possibility of a chance of infection on board to any crew or guest. Aside from those that medically are unable to get vaccinated, having virtually everyone on board protected from the virus would make the current requirements for masks and social distancing unnecessary as even if someone does come in contact with someone infected either on board or ashore they will have immunity from it, (This is based on the assumption that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines having efficacy rates over 94%) The other side is it will probably be seen by some if not many as a "rights" issue. That being forced to be vaccinated is taking away a individuals right to make personal choices about their health. Although, in cases of proximity of shipboard life, the right of a person not to get vaccinated could be infringing on the rights of those that expect DCL to offer as infection free environments as possible for their guests and the crew. No one "has" to go on a cruise and in DCL's eyes for them to visit the foreign ports and their guests to participate in shoreside excursions and sight seeing, protecting not only the people on board the ships but also giving a level of protection to the people in those countries visited have to be a consideration also. This is in addition of any potential mandates or laws that any of the countries that DCL ports into having a vaccination requirement as well for foreign guests visiting. Which it appears that might be a case in many of the ie. Bahamas, Canada etc.

As for the earlier discussions about ship capacity, I admin a social media group for the upcoming 2022 Westbound Panama Canal Cruise in March of 2022, currently we have over 600 members in the group and are showing that of those members they are occupying over 27% of the Wonder's entire complement of staterooms, and there virtually is 0% available capacity left to book since DCL cancelled the 2021 WBPC and many of those folks moved over to the 2022 sailing. Obviously if DCL is going to limit capacity they could be stopping at 30% or above or maybe more, but the indication with in our group and the current availability seems to indicate that DCL is expecting to sail with full ships, at least by 2022 anyway.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

The tricky part is also HIPPA for the US.

1. HIPAA. Two As.

2. It actually doesn't apply to DCL the way some people pretend it does. DCL would not be a covered entity under the law.

 

[pjacobi]

Your airline may require a vaccination to get to Florida. Qantas in Australia already has plans to require vaccinations. It is likely others may follow.

-Paul

 

[jlwhitney]

I tend to agree. One of the things that has occurred to me is that even if COVID were instantly wiped out today, the obsession with health and cleanliness will persist for a while. That could be a good thing, within reason, but I expect there to be a reasonably lengthy half-life to the health obsession.

A lot of it will fade in time with laziness and when people realize that nothing happens if they don’t clean ever cart or shelf or so on. People
Have short memories and some
Old habits will come back some will have some new habits. But living in an area that is very open and almost normal as is shows me that once restrictions drop many will be happy and go back, not all though.

While hopefully it will encourage places that were known to never clean well to at least clean better than in the past.

 

[disneyland_is_magic]

Also if a person tests positive during a cruise, will that mean the rest of us now can’t dock in a country.

This is an interesting part of the conversation, let's say you have port scheduled for a Tuesday, and you have someone test positive on Monday night. Now it's possible the entire ship can't disembark because of local laws, simply because there isn't time to properly assess the spread and the vaccine isn't actually 100% .

This is why the local laws will play such a big role in policy decision and even routes. Let's say some island allow for up to 5 positive cases onboard while some islands don't allow for any. Disney needs to deliver a good product to keep customers coming back otherwise people could walk away with a diminish value for their money and a sour taste in the mouth for cruising. So do they have to avoid destinations with more stringent laws? Or do they have stricter requirements on their customers?

 

[Starwind]

The tricky part is also HIPPA for the US.

HIPAA would be unlikely to apply, and would NOT apply to DCL.

See https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profe...omply-with-hipaa-privacy-standards/index.html

However, there is other privacy legislation that may govern organizations like DCL which requires them to protect personally identifiable information in their possession.

As for a medical note, it would not necessarily have to state WHAT medical condition, only that there is one that is eligible for exemption [assuming there is any kind of exemption in the first place]. "Jim Smith has XYZ condition which qualifies for exemption" is more sensitive information-wise than "Jim Smith has a medical condition which qualifies for exemption".

 

[jane01jp]

A lot of it will fade in time with laziness and when people realize that nothing happens if they don’t clean ever cart or shelf or so on. People
Have short memories and some
Old habits will come back some will have some new habits. But living in an area that is very open and almost normal as is shows me that once restrictions drop many will be happy and go back, not all though.

While hopefully it will encourage places that were known to never clean well to at least clean better than in the past.

Maybe so.

It kind of reminds me of having children. When our first was born, we were meticulous about boiling everything. When our second came along, a quick rinse did the trick. They are now both healthy adults.

 

[sullivan.kscott]

I guess those who can't have the vaccine, for one reason or another, may feel discriminated against if vaccines are compulsory for travel. I understand why they would be, but feel for those who can't have it and may be excluded from some activities in the future.

IF any of this gets implemented (I kind of hope it does for international travel short term because I see it a way to increase capacity and offerings even if masks stick around), I’d expect it to be short term. In fact, I’d hope that there could be a defined end goal to the requirement. Something like “r0 below x for three months,” or “less than x deaths or hospitalizations per 100k for three months,” or some other similar language.
A lot of the push back we see from the general public is because of an undefined end goal.

 

[jlwhitney]

HIPAA would be unlikely to apply, and would NOT apply to DCL.

See https://www.hhs.gov/hipaa/for-profe...omply-with-hipaa-privacy-standards/index.html

However, there is other privacy legislation that may govern organizations like DCL which requires them to protect personally identifiable information in their possession.

As for a medical note, it would not necessarily have to state WHAT medical condition, only that there is one that is eligible for exemption [assuming there is any kind of exemption in the first place]. "Jim Smith has XYZ condition which qualifies for exemption" is more sensitive information-wise than "Jim Smith has a medical condition which qualifies for exemption".

And that would be abused just them stating they have an exemption. Drs already abuse it for sick notes and vaccine exemptions for schools.

 

[jlwhitney]

Maybe so.

It kind of reminds me of having children. When our first was born, we were meticulous about boiling everything. When our second came along, a quick rinse did the trick. They are now both healthy adults.

Now that is the truth!

 

[jane01jp]

From The Washington Post:

"As vaccination is rolled out and we learn more about immunity after natural infection, providing the option of an immunity passport to those who choose to receive one can increase freedom of movement for passport holders and accelerate broader social and economic recovery. As universal vaccination becomes available, passports will help everyone, not just the lucky few, move from fear to freedom."

 

[Starwind]

And that would be abused just them stating they have an exemption. Drs already abuse it for sick notes and vaccine exemptions for schools.

Which may be why there may not be exemptions, at least for certain situations, if vaccinations were to be required.

At the very least it is going to be interesting to see how it will play out...

Will vaccinations be required; will there be exemptions; what will be courts decide re: the previous two...

eg I could see the argument being made that vaccinations would be mandatory and that there are no exemptions, that having exemptions presents an unreasonable risk to everyone on the ship. Presumably predicated on no exemptions being time-limited until after the pandemic is declared over [the vaccinations required but allowing exemptions could go on longer].

 

[_auroraborealis_]

And a really important key is that US children have the right to a public education, which makes vaccine exemptions a far different thing than allowing them for a luxury travel experience that involves international waters and destinations.

 

[n2mm]

I guess those who can't have the vaccine, for one reason or another, may feel discriminated against if vaccines are compulsory for travel. I understand why they would be, but feel for those who can't have it and may be excluded from some activities in the future.

currently wdw is not exempting anyone from their Covid guidelines. There are people who have trouble breathing with a mask, or trying to keep a mask on a 3 year old. Disneys answer is, don’t visit if you can’t make our guidelines work for you or your family. no different than being required to have shots to visit a foreign country. If you don’t get the shots, they won’t let you visit. I do wonder about children, since shots Are not an option. At the end of the day, this will become a country entry rule and Disney Cruise rule. there is no “one size fits all solution”, but they will do whatever gives them he best outcome for the majority.

 

[jane01jp]

currently wdw is not exempting anyone from their Covid guidelines. There are people who have trouble breathing with a mask, or trying to keep a mask on a 3 year old. Disneys answer is, don’t visit if you can’t make our guidelines work for you or your family. no different than being required to have shots to visit a foreign country. If you don’t get the shots, they won’t let you visit. I do wonder about children, since shots Are not an option. At the end of the day, this will become a country entry rule and Disney Cruise rule. there is no “one size fits all solution”, but they will do whatever gives them he best outcome for the majority.

"...they will do whatever gives them he best outcome for the majority."

I think they will do whatever is in their own perceived best interests.

 

[TestingH2O]

The other side is it will probably be seen by some if not many as a "rights" issue. That being forced to be vaccinated is taking away a individuals right to make personal choices about their health.

Disney is a private company. The Bahamas is a sovereign nation. Both are examples where the rights of an individual do not supersede the right of the entity. This has been a point of contention for some people since this pandemic began.

In the US, no one is losing the right not to get a vaccine, not to wear a mask, or to freak out about either of those things. However, the choices people make have implications. Don’t want to wear a mask? Well, there is a long list of places you are not welcome to go including Disney property. Don’t want a vaccine? Ok, you don’t have to get one, but there will be places that are off limits to you. Most of the “rights” people I think you are referring to seem confused by the fact that they can always retain their Constitutional rights, but it does not mean retaining an excuse from consequences.

 

[icc2515]

Your airline may require a vaccination to get to Florida. Qantas in Australia already has plans to require vaccinations. It is likely others may follow.

-Paul

Here's a link to an article talking about this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55048438
An interesting point is that the head of Quantas says that he thinks it is going to be a common thing after talking to other airlines. If an airline requires you to have a vaccination for a few hour flight, it is not a very far leap to think that a cruise ship will require for a several day cruise.

Here's an article with the head of RCCL talking about how vaccines not new protocols will be what gets cruising going again. He does not specifically mention a vaccine requirement.

https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/category/category/richard-fain

 

[jerry557]

Disney is a private company. The Bahamas is a sovereign nation. Both are examples where the rights of an individual do not supersede the right of the entity. This has been a point of contention for some people since this pandemic began.

In the US, no one is losing the right not to get a vaccine, not to wear a mask, or to freak out about either of those things. However, the choices people make have implications. Don’t want to wear a mask? Well, there is a long list of places you are not welcome to go including Disney property. Don’t want a vaccine? Ok, you don’t have to get one, but there will be places that are off limits to you. Most of the “rights” people I think you are referring to seem confused by the fact that they can always retain their Constitutional rights, but it does not mean retaining an excuse from consequences.

In other words....wear you mask and take the shot or else live homeless. That's pretty much your point of view. Can't get food, have a job, or travel without the vaccine.....but you aren't "forced."

We'll see how far this gets. Mandatory vaccinations was a very, very controversial issue even before COVID-19. The debate is going to get super-heated in 2021. And if you thought the mask debate was ugly.....you've seen nothing yet as polls show half the country say they will not get the vaccine.

Personally, I would never go on a cruise ship with these restrictions. Safety issues aside, it's just not worth the money. You want a family to spend $5,000+ for a "vacation" where masks are mandated whenever you walk outside your cabin in Caribbean heat, everything is soaked 24/7 with bleach, your temperature checked multiple times a day, limited to no entertainment, PLUS have a vaccine required, and then somehow find a way to have a good time? Heck, for that kind of money, I'm going to somewhere else. A million places to go where you don't have to go through Bio Level 4 decontamination to walk outside. The cruise industry is going to die if they are going to do this route. There is no way they are going to make it.