Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[Princess Sara's Mom]

As far as safety, cleanliness, etc. -- Disney could report that they have just put a million dollars into building a perfect safety record, better guest service, and consistently cleaner bathrooms, and the bulk of guests will still say, "You spent a million bucks on THAT? Where's our new coaster?" WWoHP opens, so what's Disney got? People want parity, and if they don't get it, that means that Disney is slipping.

WDSearcher~I can't speak to US--I've never been [there's another theme park in Orlando? ]. I'm comparing Disney to Disney. I think that's parity and from I can see year over year, it *is* slipping.

The way I see it, the "low hanging fruit"--the clean bathrooms, great guest service, and an emphasis on safety (both in restaurants [see thread: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2764096] & in the park itself) should be a given--no need to spend more $$$ or do a report/press package saying come to Disney World and see just how "clean & safe" they are now. It should already be up to snuff.

Disney still offers the Disney Institute (http://disneyinstitute.com/?CMP=KNC...e|7741945158&gclid=CJ_XooeUnaoCFQKP5godY0Bf0Q) and offers "Quality Service" programs (http://disneyinstitute.com/topics/quality_service.aspx) available for $500+ (http://disneyinstitute.com/dates_and_pricing/program_pricing.aspx). As a guest & CM, visiting the parks, I just don't see the things they claim to provide --was it there at one time? Maybe 15, 20+ years ago, sure--Disney was the leader. But, today, I just don't see how they can say:

"At Disney, we elevate our own level of service by paying extremely close attention to detail, providing comprehensive training, and treating every Guest as a VIP. Service is second nature for our Cast Members because we enjoy pleasing people -- and we enjoy seeing profits."

Like I said, was the true in the past? Yes--absolutely.

Can they say that now? As a guest, I don't see how they can. They are holding onto a legacy of service that just doesn't exist anymore.

Seems to me that all the Disney execs ALL need to take the very own courses that their own company offers at the Disney Institute and learn something new!

 

[WDSearcher]

WDSearcher~I can't speak to US--I've never been. I'm comparing Disney to Disney. I think that's parity and from I can see year over year, it *is* slipping.

The way I see it, the "low hanging fruit"--the clean bathrooms, great guest service, and an emphasis on safety (both in restaurants [see thread: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2764096] & in the park itself) should be a given--no need to spend more $$$ or do a report/press package saying come to Disney World and see just how "clean & safe" they are now. It should already be up to snuff.

Disney still offers the Disney Institute (http://disneyinstitute.com/?CMP=KNC...e|7741945158&gclid=CJ_XooeUnaoCFQKP5godY0Bf0Q) and offers "Quality Service" programs (http://disneyinstitute.com/topics/quality_service.aspx) available for $500+ (http://disneyinstitute.com/dates_and_pricing/program_pricing.aspx). As a guest & CM, visiting the parks, I just don't see the things they claim to provide --was it there at one time? Maybe 15, 20+ years ago, sure--Disney was the leader. But, today, I just don't see how they can say:

"At Disney, we elevate our own level of service by paying extremely close attention to detail, providing comprehensive training, and treating every Guest as a VIP. Service is second nature for our Cast Members because we enjoy pleasing people -- and we enjoy seeing profits."

Like I said, was the true in the past? Yes--absolutely.

Can they say that now? As a guest, I don't see how they can. They are holding onto a legacy of service that just doesn't exist anymore.

Seems to me that all the Disney execs ALL need to take the very own courses that their own company offers at the Disney Institute and learn something new!

I certainly don't think that could hurt , but I also think that the amount of "bad" service is skewed sometimes. Someone comes on the DIS and talks about how dirty the bathroom was at Fantasyland or how they ran into two rude CMs at DAK and they use those two examples to prove their point that "Disney is going downhill". But they just spent ten days at WDW. So ... how many clean bathrooms did they see? How many happy, cheerful CMs did they encounter? People will list the one dirty bathroom, not the dozens of others they used. They note the one rude CM, not the 400 others. And while I'll agree that that one rude CM does stick out more than the 400 others who were just fine, I maintain that there were rude CMs in Walt's day too. It's not like no one at Disney was rude until Eisner showed up.

 

[Andtototoo]

I think it is the mentality of the people coming to WDW, the "I paid a lot of money for this vacation and I demand that you give me what I want, as much as I want, when I want it."
<snip>

the point is that the CM's have to put up with this kind of stuff all day long from people. I don't know how they keep a smile on their face and I can absolutely understand when they are sometimes less than kind when they are dealing with stupid people. I don't think WDW is declining, just they have been very successful with their marketing and now they have to deal with stupid people all day long which makes it seem less magical to the rest of us.

I agree with the idea that in part Disney's marketing sets up unrealistic expectations and leads to frustration and entitlement issues. (I personally subscribe to the idea of under promising and over delivering!)

But I'd also add that a new layer to unrealistic expectations is the extant entitled, rude, and demanding attitude of the public in general that I have seen greatly increase in my last 10 years in dealing with customers. There has been a significant attitude and behavioral change in the last decade and it's not one for the better. I saw it start to happen about 15 years ago, but it greatly accelerated 10 years ago and within the last five years... Sheesh!

The other day, my dd went to a fast food restaurant for a drive thru. The worker handed her two ice cream sundaes. Dd said, "I'm sorry, but I didn't order these..." The worker told her, "Actually, I'm the manager and these are a prize. We've been having a discussion about how rude people are. I told the staff that the first customer to say 'thank you' or 'please' would get a free sundae. You're the first person to say either and you said both, so you get two free sundaes." Dd asked how long it had taken to hand out the sundaes. The answer? FOUR HOURS. Sadly, it did not surprise me that it was four hours before anyone said something as simple and easy as saying please and thank you. It costs NOTHING to be polite, but apparently free is too much for some people to spend.

The way people dole out kindness as if it's the most expensive commodity in the world appalls me. It's all well and good to say that CMs "should" always be bright, happy, shiny people, but the truth is that it's incredibly exhausting to deal with what amounts to intermittent rounds of at best unpleasantness and at worst verbal abuse all day long. Especially when you realize that no matter how much you are empowered, a significant portion of your customers simply can NOT be made happy because their requirements for happiness are unrealistic and even, impossible. So at a certain point it's a natural defense mechanism to stop caring if the customer is happy or not.

If you've ever had that type of job, you know how much difference it makes to have customers treat you decently. Just one per shift can make a significant difference. So my response to what I see is that I cannot make others behave like decent human beings, but I make sure that I always do. That I treat workers with dignity and respect, that I extend courtesy to them. And maybe if enough customers treat workers better, the workers will be more likely to care about making customers happy and the company will be better able to retain good workers.

 

[DonnaBoo]

Sometimes it's not the customers who bring out the noncaring attitude of a worker. Sometimes management itself can do it.
This will be my fourth trip to Disney and the third trip with my wonderful DH.
We've seen dirty bathrooms, uncaring CM's and unhappy disney visitors. I've also seen clean washrooms, caring CM's and happy visitors.
I just love being there and escaping from my world for a while. And enjoying the time I spend with my hubby.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

I maintain that there were rude CMs in Walt's day too. It's not like no one at Disney was rude until Eisner showed up.

If there were rude CMs in the 1980s and early 90s, I did not see them. I remember my brother-in-law waiting for us in the lobby at the Contemporary Resort back in the 80s. A man was upset about something, and the CM kept asking him, "What would you like me to do, Sir, to make this situation right?" She was so polite and calm and sincere. He was agitated and would not listen. My brother-in-law realized that Disney was willing to do whatever it might take to make this customer happy. It took the man quite a few minutes to realize that Disney was going to make it right, but he finally did hear what she was saying.

In the Disney World that I remember from my teen years and early 20s, a piece of trash would not stay on the ground for longer than a few moments. CMs were everywhere, with broom and dustpan, ready to sweep it up. And the funny thing is that you never noticed them, unless you specifically looked. They blended into the background perfectly. It was magic. The streets were washed and pristine looking throughout the day, and so were the restrooms. The beaches were combed every morning. In fact, everywhere you looked Disney World appeared pristine and beautiful.

In the 80s, every CM that I encountered was on stage and truly part of the Show. In my experience, they never broke character; they never lost their smile. Now, I see it happen multiple times per day, every day of my trip. It appears more CMs do not understand what it means to be part of the Show than do. Disney World still has much to offer, but it is not offering the same level of service as it did in the past.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

If you've ever had that type of job, you know how much difference it makes to have customers treat you decently. Just one per shift can make a significant difference. So my response to what I see is that I cannot make others behave like decent human beings, but I make sure that I always do. That I treat workers with dignity and respect, that I extend courtesy to them. And maybe if enough customers treat workers better, the workers will be more likely to care about making customers happy and the company will be better able to retain good workers.

I do my best to give kindness to all of the CMs, even the ones who might not be kind to me (it's sort of the "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle" principle). We do need to be kind to the CMs and realize how difficult their job is. Even though I am disappointed when a CM is not part of the Show, I do realize that it is not the CMs fault. It comes from the top, and if it was something that Disney wanted to instill in its employees today, then Disney would do just that. And Disney is not, at least not on a consistent basis. But that is not the fault of the CM.

Sometimes it's not the customers who bring out the noncaring attitude of a worker. Sometimes management itself can do it.

I agree with this, too. If the CMs are being taken care of by management, they can handle rude guests. If it was important to Disney, the management could give CMs more breaks, more perks, all sorts of kindnesses to help the employees deal with a stressful job. A company that treats its employees like gold will reap the benefits, because the employees will be more likely to treat the customers like gold. That is what Disney used to get right.

 

[damo]

When you say "Universal" are you really talking all of Universal or are you really just talking WWoHP? Because as much as I like WWoHP, I can't imagine anyone walking through the REST of Universal or IOA and not thinking that it's dated and stagnant.

Seuss Landing so very badly needs a coat of paint -- remember how that land used to literally pop out of the landscape, it was so brightly colored? Superhero Island is dirty, faded and has no real entertainment or ... well ... anything really. There's absolutely nothing new at Universal Studios -- it's all the same stuff that was there ten years ago. Spiderman is still amazing, but the rest? Jaws ... ET ... Dudley Do-Right (do kids even know who he is any more?) ... Cat in the Hat ... you don't consider any of those to be dated and stagnant?

I think WWoHP is quite possibly the most amazingly themed world I've seen. But there's no way that the REST of Universal holds up. It's like they put every penny into WWoHP and barely maintained anything else.

Seriously? Suess Landing gets painted every year. Bright colours don't keep well in the Florida sun. Hulk just got repainted. Spiderman is in the process of upgrading all of the 3D cameras to the new technology and completely reworking the film. There are plans in the works to expand the Wizarding World which is already absolutely amazing. High in the Sky Suess trolley was just put in a few years ago. Triceratops Encounter has recently been reworked and added in for peak dates. A new stunt show is also showing at IOA. At Universal, Jimmy Neutron is being replaced with a new ride next year. Rip Ride Rockit is new in the last two years, Mummy is new in the last few years as is Simpsons and the new version of Disaster. The parks are continually replacing and renewing rides every year while maintaining the classic ones and adding new ones.

I would love to see WDW continually redoing and replacing rides and adding new ones. To me, they could be doing a much, much better job.

Each of of WDW park's attendance figures are higher than Universal or IOA but the Universal parks are the ones who are continually spending the money keeping their parks fresh. There are many rides that have already been engineered and exist in other Disney parks that could easily be put into WDW but WDW parks seem to be quite stagnant in comparison.

 

[megan926]

If there were rude CMs in the 1980s and early 90s, I did not see them. I remember my brother-in-law waiting for us in the lobby at the Contemporary Resort back in the 80s. A man was upset about something, and the CM kept asking him, "What would you like me to do, Sir, to make this situation right?" She was so polite and calm and sincere. He was agitated and would not listen. My brother-in-law realized that Disney was willing to do whatever it might take to make this customer happy. It took the man quite a few minutes to realize that Disney was going to make it right, but he finally did hear what she was saying.

In the Disney World that I remember from my teen years and early 20s, a piece of trash would not stay on the ground for longer than a few moments. CMs were everywhere, with broom and dustpan, ready to sweep it up. And the funny thing is that you never noticed them, unless you specifically looked. They blended into the background perfectly. It was magic. The streets were washed and pristine looking throughout the day, and so were the restrooms. The beaches were combed every morning. In fact, everywhere you looked Disney World appeared pristine and beautiful.

In the 80s, every CM that I encountered was on stage and truly part of the Show. In my experience, they never broke character; they never lost their smile. Now, I see it happen multiple times per day, every day of my trip. It appears more CMs do not understand what it means to be part of the Show than do. Disney World still has much to offer, but it is not offering the same level of service as it did in the past.

Agreed.

 

[Princess Sara's Mom]

Sometimes it's not the customers who bring out the noncaring attitude of a worker. Sometimes management itself can do it.
This will be my fourth trip to Disney and the third trip with my wonderful DH.
We've seen dirty bathrooms, uncaring CM's and unhappy disney visitors. I've also seen clean washrooms, caring CM's and happy visitors.
I just love being there and escaping from my world for a while. And enjoying the time I spend with my hubby.

There are 2 messages that absolutely breaks my heart--the first one from Peter Pan 09 when they said:

"Your Disney is the one I thought I was going to work for-but the reality is vastly different. It is very difficult to be the CM who wants it to be like it was, you feel like you are swimming upstream against a tough current. I think a lot of folks that have that ideal end up leaving because they get so frustrated with the reality, and that furthers the decline. Disneynutz is correct about the bean counters ruining the place, and I do fear for the future. I don't want to see the Disney I love reduced to just another theme park.

I've heard/read this from more than just one CM on these boards & in person while visiting the park & I'm chatting it up with the CMs. It really does hurt, in many ways...

As for DonnaBoo's comment--ugh...you have no idea how this part of your message absolutely breaks my heart. There was a time, DonnaBoo, this would never have been a part of anyone's "magical experience" --especially a dirty bathroom....no. Even a CM visiting the parks on their off-day would've said something to someone about the bathrooms, roaches in light fixtures (see restaurant inspection thread previously linked in post), etc.

I'm glad, though, you are able to experience Disney through . I think if you'd been there prior to your first visit (in 2008? Is that right?), you'd perhaps see what us longtimers & CMs are currently seeing.

 

[Princess Sara's Mom]

Agreed.

Double agreed.

 

[DonnaBoo]

As for DonnaBoo's comment--.
I'm glad, though, you are able to experience Disney through . I think if you'd been there prior to your first visit (in 2008? Is that right?), you'd perhaps see what us longtimers & CMs are currently seeing.

Actually my first visit was in 2006. And although there was 2 years between my visits, I did see a difference. I imagine if I had been there in the 80's or 90's, I would have noticed even bigger changes.

However, my glasses go back on everytime we go. there's so much stress, resentment, and tension in my job environment, I focus on the good while I'm in Disney. I want to believe in "My happy place". The person I am with, my DH, really helps make that happen.
When DH and I are in Disney we focus on each other and being kids again.

 

[sewer]

I'm really confused with respect to all of these posts! The things people talk about rude CM's, dirty bathrooms, etc., all the times I've been there I really never experienced these conditions. I asked my family if they encountered what they considered a drop in Disney quality, and their response was a resounding no. The only thing they did bring up was "nasty guests", or as my wife put it the "mine, mine, mine, mine, mine" attitude.

 

[pjpoppins]

I just hope that if there is a downward trend that it doesn't continue. I went to Disney 3 times as a child in the late 80's and it's such a nostalgic place. My DW went as a child, teen, and young adult and now we brought our DD for the first time last September. It's like a full circle. I hope WDW will be a part of my life forever and the circle will continue. It kinda makes me sad to read these negative posts. I feel like we live in such a screwed up world and WDW is the one place we can go that everything is right. The only bad experiences I had there were with other patrons but I expect that...maybe I'll hit powerball someday and be able to rent the parks out for myself. I just hope that it keeps the magic and that it's somewhere I can enjoy for generations to come.

 

[OllieDannyandMe]

I'm really confused with respect to all of these posts! The things people talk about rude CM's, dirty bathrooms, etc., all the times I've been there I really never experienced these conditions. I asked my family if they encountered what they considered a drop in Disney quality, and their response was a resounding no. The only thing they did bring up was "nasty guests", or as my wife put it the "mine, mine, mine, mine, mine" attitude.

The level of customer service Disney provided in the 1980s and 90s is difficult to describe. I am not sure if it can be fully appreciated, unless one experienced it.

An analogy that comes to my mind is in 2008, when my four year old daughter went to Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique, and wore a custom-made Sleeping Beauty gown into the park.

As we walked back down Main Street, shop keepers (multiple shop keepers--one after another) came out into the street to bow down to her. They addressed her as princess. I was shocked!

As we boarded the bus, the bus driver made an announcement that a princess was now on board the bus.

When we arrived back to the Animal Kingdom Lodge and took the shortcut through the gift shop to get to our room, a CM came out from behind the counter and asked my daughter, the princess, for her autograph.

I felt like someone had rolled out a red carpet for us. It was amazing!

Well, in the 1980s and 1990s, Disney CMs made adults feel the same way. Doors magically opened. Seas were parted. There was little to nothing Disney would not do for their guests. At least, that was my experience.

In September 1992, I can remember calling Disney Dining from my room in the Contemporary. I was planning to make a dinner reservation in Epcot, when the CM suggested Victoria & Alberts at the Grand Floridian. I explained that we were on a package plan that included dining, and Victoria & Alberts was not on that plan. She said that would not be a problem, that the dining room was not full that evening, and they would accept our plan.

Back then, a CM would never have a private conversation while guests were present. It seemed as though every CM (from the concierge at the front desk to the lifeguard at the pool to the monorail pilot) had a role on stage, and they never broke character. I cannot even describe how perfect it was, and it did inspire my loyalty.

I don't think they do this anymore (although maybe I am wrong), but when we stayed at the Contemporary back in the 80s, every morning at dawn, a crew would come out to comb the sand at the beach. One CM had this little vehicle with a rake-like apparatus behind it, and he would write messages and make art designs each morning for the first guests to hit the beach. Special little touches like this one were everywhere. Are they still to be found at Disney? Yes, but it is not at the same level.

Today, I read a couple of fun threads. One was probably a joke, about a guest staying at the Hollywood Tower Hotel. Another thread was about a party inside the Haunted Mansion that took place in 2003. Disney used to have cutting edge and creative ideas, like these all the time. I want Disney to push the envelope again, the way it once did.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The level of customer service Disney provided in the 1980s and 90s is difficult to describe. I am not sure if it can be fully appreciated, unless one experienced it.

ITA. You can miss, what you haven't experienced.

These changes can't be blamed on the economy or money. How much does it cost to say, " have a Magical Day or ask a Princess for her autograph?"

 

[LuluLovesDisney]

ITA. You can miss, what you haven't experienced.

These changes can't be blamed on the economy or money. How much does it cost to say, " have a Magical Day or ask a Princess for her autograph?"

I agree with your basic sentiment; it doesn't cost a CM anything to give a guest a little magic. However, the practical side of me has to say that it DOES cost Disney. By this, I mean that Disney pays less than Universal and many CMs make minimum wage. This is not the way to ensure that the CMs are up to the level that we (on this thread) want or have experienced in the past. If Disney wants to hire and keep people who are truly exceptional at customer service, they can't expect to do that on the lowest dollar amount.

 

[Planogirl]

Absolutely! I totally agree. Although I do think that Disney would take a LOT more heat if they announced they were closing down Jungle Cruise and "small world" to build something new than Universal would if they announced they were closing down Dudley Do-Right Falls. People feel differently about the older rides at Disney than they do about the ones at Universal. You have to admit that.

Being a "classic" and being "stagnant" are two very different things. Great Movie Ride is stagnant. "it's a small world" is a classic.

My question, though, was how could someone walk through Amityville, Seuss Landing, Superhero Island, etc. and say that Universal is not dated and stagnant? Do people really not see Jaws as dated? Do you really not think that rides like Dr. Doom's Fearfall or the Sky Seuss Trolley are stagnant?

I think when people go to Universal these days, they visit Harry Potter, and then they kind of give Universal a pass on anything else that looks old or worn. They visit Harry Potter and then the rest of the park is kind of something they do on their way out and they don't really care so much what it looks like.

I see Jaws as a classic and even though I never saw it, I heard a lot of fuss about King Kong being closed and I did see Back to the Future but the same there. I don't see Amityville as any more dated than any themed land anywhere. It fits. I don't care for the theming of Superhero Island or have the nerve to ride Dr Doom so I won't comment on those. The Sky Trolley actually hasn't been open very long. We rode it for the first time ever last year and were delighted with the things to see on the roofs and behind the scenes.

This is all subjective of course but no, I don't think that most people just visit the rest of the park not caring what it looks like. If that were true, no one would visit the Studios and they certainly do.

Again, this has nothing to do with whether WDW itself is going downhill or not IMO. So often Universal is brought up when WDW is \criticized. I don't see the correlation myself. It's up to Disney to maintain their standards and it's not fair to say that at least they're not like "fill in the blank".

I get that you dislike Universal while I like them. That's OK, to each their own. However I don't see the fairness of tearing down other places just to somehow make WDW look better. It doesn't work.

 

[Scrooge Jr]

It costs NOTHING to be polite, but apparently free is too much for some people to spend.

The way people dole out kindness as if it's the most expensive commodity in the world appalls me.

Words of wisdom, I wish I could get my 11yo DS to understand this.

"You can catch more flys with honey than vinager."

 

[WDSearcher]

I see Jaws as a classic and even though I never saw it, I heard a lot of fuss about King Kong being closed and I did see Back to the Future but the same there. I don't see Amityville as any more dated than any themed land anywhere. It fits. I don't care for the theming of Superhero Island or have the nerve to ride Dr Doom so I won't comment on those. The Sky Trolley actually hasn't been open very long. We rode it for the first time ever last year and were delighted with the things to see on the roofs and behind the scenes.

This is all subjective of course but no, I don't think that most people just visit the rest of the park not caring what it looks like. If that were true, no one would visit the Studios and they certainly do.

Again, this has nothing to do with whether WDW itself is going downhill or not IMO. So often Universal is brought up when WDW is \criticized. I don't see the correlation myself. It's up to Disney to maintain their standards and it's not fair to say that at least they're not like "fill in the blank".

I get that you dislike Universal while I like them. That's OK, to each their own. However I don't see the fairness of tearing down other places just to somehow make WDW look better. It doesn't work.

I don't dislike Universal. I've said on many threads how awesome WWoHP is, how Spiderman is possibly the best theme park ride ever, and how the Simpsons ride is brilliant. I wasn't the first on the thread to discuss WDW vs. Universal, so it's not really fair to blame me for that. That discussion has been going on a long time, on this thread and others. If someone is going to use Harry Potter to say how Disney isn't keeping up, then it is fair, I believe, to use Harry Potter (and Universal in general) as a comparison if I'm going to argue the other side. That's all I'm doing.

On this thread alone, folks have used examples from both Disney and Universal when talking about attractions, resorts, on-site benefits, pay scales for employees, out-of-date attractions, prices, and on and on. You may not see the correlation, but lots of us do. Sorry!

 

[TGaines107]

Well another year gone by and my biggest disappointment remains Downtown Disney. Something is lost there and I just cant place it. I love the Disney Store and that whole side but somehow the magic is lost when you cross the old Pleasure Island area into the opposite side.