Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[disneynutz]

Yea but how does increased prices mean that Disney is going downhill? The ticket prices are ridiculous, and so is everything else in WDW. However, everything else in the world (the real world, not Disney) is increasing in prices as well. They will keep improving Disney to make people want to keep coming back. I don't see how any of this could be considered "going downhill."

Increasing prices while cutting maintenance, food quality and quantity, homogenizing merchandise, reducing decorations, increasing the number of hard ticket event nights which require a separate ticket, reducing the number of full time dedicated CM's and increasing the number of part time, contracted, and collage CM's is going down hill in my book.

Bill

 

[flicx]

Increasing prices while cutting maintenance, food quality and quantity, homogenizing merchandise, reducing decorations, increasing the number of hard ticket event nights which require a separate ticket, reducing the number of full time dedicated CM's and increasing the number of part time, contracted, and collage CM's is going down hill in my book.

Bill

Yes I agree,I think the disney vacation has skyrocketed in price the last decade.I have been going for 30+ years and usually try to stay on site on a modest income.I really struggle anymore to find a way to make the numbers work in recent years,and we have always had a similar level of income to deal with.I used to have no problems finding a deal but now ,wow is it tough.The ever increasing prices coupled with declines the above post mention have me struggling to consider any trip in the near future!Then when Mr.Iger says the discounts are gonna dry up,I really get confused because in my eyes most of them have already dried up!

 

[disneynutz]

Yes I agree,I think the disney vacation has skyrocketed in price the last decade.I have been going for 30+ years and usually try to stay on site on a modest income.I really struggle anymore to find a way to make the numbers work in recent years,and we have always had a similar level of income to deal with.I used to have no problems finding a deal but now ,wow is it tough.The ever increasing prices coupled with declines the above post mention have me struggling to consider any trip in the near future!Then when Mr.Iger says the discounts are gonna dry up,I really get confused because in my eyes most of them have already dried up!

And now Iger will be Chairman of the Board in addition to President and CEO until 2015 when he retires. With a 12 million dollar bonus per year for increasing profit and stock prices, we are going to see higher prices and additional cuts. Another problem is that his rumored replacement is Tom Staggs, their ex CFO who is now running Parks and Resorts. Anytime we put bean counters instead of Magic Makers in charge you know what direction a business is headed. When is enough, enough?

Bill

 

[Kona65]

I don't have time to read all of the post on this thread. Could someone please summarize what has been said.

 

[flicx]

And now Iger will be Chairman of the Board in addition to President and CEO until 2015 when he retires. With a 12 million dollar bonus per year for increasing profit and stock prices, we are going to see higher prices and additional cuts. Another problem is that his rumored replacement is Tom Staggs, their ex CFO who is now running Parks and Resorts. Anytime we put bean counters instead of Magic Makers in charge you know what direction a business is headed. When is enough, enough?

Bill

That is just crazy,12 million, really.You know I can never stomach what they pay ceo's in this country.These people are getting alot of the credit for what the people in the trenches do every day.You know if you took about 10 million of that bonus and paid the cast members better how much better would disney be!Then the poor guy would have to live on a meager 2million dollar bonus!How would his family make ends meet?

 

[Kona65]

That is just crazy,12 million, really.You know I can never stomach what they pay ceo's in this country.These people are getting alot of the credit for what the people in the trenches do every day.You know if you took about 10 million of that bonus and paid the cast members better how much better would disney be!Then the poor guy would have to live on a meager 2million dollar bonus!How would his family make ends meet?

Could someone please find my violin......

 

[Albytaps]

Yes I agree,I think the disney vacation has skyrocketed in price the last decade.I have been going for 30+ years and usually try to stay on site on a modest income.I really struggle anymore to find a way to make the numbers work in recent years,and we have always had a similar level of income to deal with.I used to have no problems finding a deal but now ,wow is it tough.The ever increasing prices coupled with declines the above post mention have me struggling to consider any trip in the near future!Then when Mr.Iger says the discounts are gonna dry up,I really get confused because in my eyes most of them have already dried up!

Why are the parks crowded year round? The parks seem way more crowded in this decade than they were last. They don't seem to be driving away many customers from the downhill slope you guys are claiming.

A company's "job" is to make money. They will do what they can to cut costs while keeping customers happy. It seems there may be a select few that are unhappy about the way things are... and they're probably all on these boads to complain. The other 99.9% most likely never visit message boards.

Im not saying I've never had a complaint about WDW, but to the extent you guys are making it out to be just seems a bit much. Yes we all want lower prices, who doesn't? But come on now... going downhill? LOL

 

[Laketravis]

Do you really think Disney cares if they lose 20% of their repeat customers if the remaining 80% happily pay 150% more and they gain another 30% in new customers?

Because that's the reality. Like any other business trying to maximize returns, Disney will continue to raise prices and offer less in return until resort/park attendance and expenditures per guest (EPG) begin to drop, indicating they've reached the resistance mark.

And folks, that just hasn't happened yet.

 

[nytimez]

Do you really think Disney cares if they lose 20% of their repeat customers if the remaining 80% happily pay 150% more and they gain another 30% in new customers?

Because that's the reality. Like any other business trying to maximize returns, Disney will continue to raise prices and offer less in return until resort/park attendance and expenditures per guest (EPG) begin to drop, indicating they've reached the resistance mark.

And folks, that just hasn't happened yet.

Unless the new customers repeat or they can tap into a limitless supply of new customers, then yes, they will care. Very much.

 

[flicx]

Could someone please find my violin......

12 million isn't too much? Really?

 

[flicx]

Why are the parks crowded year round? The parks seem way more crowded in this decade than they were last. They don't seem to be driving away many customers from the downhill slope you guys are claiming.

A company's "job" is to make money. They will do what they can to cut costs while keeping customers happy. It seems there may be a select few that are unhappy about the way things are... and they're probably all on these boads to complain. The other 99.9% most likely never visit message boards.

Im not saying I've never had a complaint about WDW, but to the extent you guys are making it out to be just seems a bit much. Yes we all want lower prices, who doesn't? But come on now... going downhill? LOL

Crowded year round? Three of the four parks had less people go through the gates last year.When you make cuts like have been brought to light on page one of this thread and jack prices at a rate way faster than inflation you have a formula for disaster.If the cuts don't bother you so be it.I on the other hand think they are a bit much coupled with the increases.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

That is just crazy,12 million, really.You know I can never stomach what they pay ceo's in this country.These people are getting alot of the credit for what the people in the trenches do every day.You know if you took about 10 million of that bonus and paid the cast members better how much better would disney be!Then the poor guy would have to live on a meager 2million dollar bonus!How would his family make ends meet?

10,000,000 by employee

If Disney employs 10,000 it would equal $1,000 per year or less than $20 per week.
If Disney employs 20,000 it would equal $500 per year, or less than $10 per week.

It is noble to expect a CEO to share the wealth. But it really doesn't amount to much when distributed across all employees.


*I do not know how many employees the Walt Disney corporation employs...so I was just using round numbers.

http://www.hiddenmickeys.org/WDW/Secrets.html#OTHER
I have no idea if the source is valid or not--but if Disney does employ on average 55,000 employees, it would equal less than $182 per year or less than $4 per week. Sure, $10,000,000 is "a lot of money", but not when you spread it across tens of thousands of people.

 

[Tiger926]

Crowded year round? Three of the four parks had less people go through the gates last year.When you make cuts like have been brought to light on page one of this thread and jack prices at a rate way faster than inflation you have a formula for disaster.If the cuts don't bother you so be it.I on the other hand think they are a bit much coupled with the increases.

I just checked TEA figures for the past 4 years (no 2011 yet), and Walt Disney's annual attendance figures have been steady since 2007, at approx 47/48 million guests.

http://www.themeit.com/etea/2010Report.pdf

For 2010, MK, Epcot and DHS all saw slight decreases, whereas AK saw an increase.

Yet in 2006, Disney's attendance was down at 45 million, so despite small decreases in 2010, WDW has seen a steady and consistent number of guests over the past 5 years on an annual basis.

The TEA figures actually show that Disney is doing just fine on an overall basis, as annual attendance numbers have increased over the past 5 years. It also shows that people are still coming to the parks, as overall numbers have not gone down over the past few years.

There has been no recipe for disaster yet, as according to the TEA numbers, WDW is holding steady at close to 50 million guests per year. It will be interesting to see what 2011 TEA figures show.

Interestingly enough, Disneyland & California Adventure and Tokyo Disneyland all saw increases, as did Universal Studios (great increase of almost 6% due to Harry Potter).

Tiger

 

[flicx]

I just checked TEA figures for the past 4 years (no 2011 yet), and Walt Disney's annual attendance figures have been steady since 2007, at approx 47/48 million guests.

For 2010, MK, Epcot and DHS all saw slight decreases, whereas AK saw an increase.

Yet in 2006, Disney's attendance was down at 45 million, so despite small decreases in 2010, WDW has seen a steady and consistent number of guests over the past 5 years on an annual basis.

The TEA figures actually show that Disney is doing just fine on an overall basis, as annual attendance numbers have increased over the past 5 years.

There has been no recipe for disaster yet, as according to the TEA numbers, WDW is holding steady at close to 50 million guests per year. It will be interesting to see what 2011 TEA figures show.

Interestingly enough, Disneyland & California Adventure and Tokyo Disneyland all saw increases, as did Universal Studios (great increase of almost 6% probably due to Harry Potter).

Tiger

Never said anything about last 5 years.I quoted last years numbers. Seems funny universal has a 6% increase and disneyworld a decrease at 3 of 4 parks.This years numbers aren't in yet either.There is a lot of speculation on here about how crowded it is at disney without any hard numbers.I will stand by what I said ,if you keep increasing prices and cutting services it is a recipe for disaster.I really don't see how this can be disputed.Hardly a good business structure.But hey you guys can have your own opinions too!

 

[Tiger926]

Never said anything about last 5 years.I quoted last years numbers. Seems funny universal has a 6% increase and disneyworld a decrease at 3 of 4 parks.This years numbers aren't in yet either.There is a lot of speculation on here about how crowded it is at disney without any hard numbers.I will stand by what I said ,if you keep increasing prices and cutting services it is a recipe for disaster.I really don't see how this can be disputed.Hardly a good business structure.But hey you guys can have your own opinions too!

I discussed last 5 years, because you postulated that WDW's current way of doing business by raising prices, was a recipe for disaster, and you used last year's attendance figures as proof that WDW is in trouble.

In order to properly use the TEA statistics that you referenced, you have to use them as an overall figure on an annual basis, and compare to say the last 5 years, in order to properly compare growth and decreases, as a way of proving whether your theory is correct.

WDW attendance has gone up since approx. 5 years ago, and has stayed steady each year. So, even though there was a slight crowd decrease in 3 of 4 parks in 2010, overall, WDW is doing just fine when compared to the last 4 years.

If attendance had actually gone down on an overall basis each of the last 4 years since they started raising prices and changing menus, then this would prove your theory that they are in trouble.

The TEA numbers disprove your theory from a mathematical standpoint; therefore, you can't use them to prove your theory that WDW is going downhill for attendance due to raising prices, as almost 50 million guests are still coming to the parks annually despite Disney raising prices, changing menus and cutting services.

This whole discussion and an analysis of the numbers shows that Disney seems to be different than most busineses, and that is probably because they have such a huge first/only timer base to draw from, as well as a huge DVC membership.

As has been said repeatedly on this thread, most WDW guests do not notice the things that we notice, and despite your opinion that Disney is not following a good business model, the attendance figures show otherwise. Numbers are staying steady, and in tough economic times, that says a lot about the Disney product. People are still coming to the parks, as the numbers show a steady pace, with no overall decreases in the past 4-5 years. Disney recognizes this, which is why they continue to do business in this manner.

We will have to wait for 2011 figures to see how this year shapes up, and then we can continue this discussion with hard evidence, Tiger

 

[flicx]

I discussed last 5 years, because you postulated that WDW's current way of doing business by raising prices, was a recipe for disaster, and you used last year's attendance figures as proof that WDW is in trouble.

In order to properly use the TEA statistics that you referenced, you have to use them as an overall figure on an annual basis, and compare to say the last 5 years, in order to properly compare growth and decreases, as a way of proving whether your theory is correct.

WDW attendance has gone up since approx. 5 years ago, and has stayed steady each year. So, even though there was a slight crowd decrease in 3 of 4 parks in 2010, overall, WDW is doing just fine when compared to the last 4 years.

If attendance had actually gone down on an overall basis each of the last 4 years since they started raising prices and changing menus, then this would prove your theory that they are in trouble.

The TEA numbers disprove your theory from a mathematical standpoint; therefore, you can't use them to prove your theory that WDW is going downhill for attendance due to raising prices, as almost 50 million guests are still coming to the parks annually despite Disney raising prices, changing menus and cutting services.

This whole discussion and an analysis of the numbers shows that Disney seems to be different than most busineses, and that is probably because they have such a huge first/only timer base to draw from, as well as a huge DVC membership.

As has been said repeatedly on this thread, most WDW guests do not notice the things that we notice, and despite your opinion that Disney is not following a good business model, the attendance figures show otherwise. Numbers are staying steady, and in tough economic times, that says a lot about the Disney product. People are still coming to the parks, as the numbers show a steady pace, with no overall decreases in the past 4-5 years. Disney recognizes this, which is why they continue to do business in this manner.

We will have to wait for 2011 figures to see how this year shapes up, and then we can continue this discussion with hard evidence, Tiger

No overall decreases? I beg to diifer.A 1.5% loss at MK,a1.5% loss at epcot,a1% loss at the studios and a 1% gain at AK. Thats a 3% attendance loss.How many million dollars would that be? You said 50 million people visit disney world, 3% of 50 million is 1.5 million less people.Now that is alot of revenue when you consider food,souveniers,admissions etc.I think the attendance figures support my theory not discredit it!Take that 1.5 million and multiply it by what an average person spends in a day at disney.Quite a loss.If choose the 5 year plan so be it.I choose the most recent numbers as they are the most pertinent!IMO

 

[Tiger926]

No overall decreases? I beg to diifer.A 1.5% loss at MK,a1.5% loss at epcot,a1% loss at the studios and a 1% gain at AK. Thats a 3% attendance loss.How many million dollars would that be? You said 50 million people visit disney world, 3% of 50 million is 1.5 million less people.Now that is alot of revenue when you consider food,souveniers,admissions etc.I think the attendance figures support my theory not discredit it!Take that 1.5 million and multiply it by what an average person spends in a day at disney.Quite a loss.If choose the 5 year plan so be it.I choose the most recent numbers as they are the most pertinent!IMO

So, hubby and I just went over numbers, and they don't add up as despite showing park gate decreases in 3 out of 4 parks, the actual tally numbers don't equate to the percentages, as in 2010, more guests visited than in 2007, 2008 and 2009, yet those years, were flat or small increases.

Hubby is a banker and deals with this all of the time, so he's not sure if there was a reporting error in the actual guest counts, or, a percentage error?

In any respect, we can't continue this discussion based on these numbers, as I used the actual tally numbers in the millions for my post, but the percentage numbers don't equate to those.

Like I said, based on guests walking through the gates, the TEA report for 2010 shows more guests walked through the gates last year than in the past 4 years, yet they are reporting a small percentage decrease over the previous year, yet in 2009, less guests walked through the gates. Doesn't compute!

Sorry, Tiger

 

[CarolynFH]

I'll admit I haven't read all 207 pages of this thread, so I don't know what's been said already or how the discussion has evolved. But reading the initial post, two things came to mind - when my sister and I came for the first time in 1975, the Brazilian tour groups were annoying, and when I was preparing to bring my family for the first time in 1994, one guidebook noted that a certain restaurant was "the best in MK, but that's like saying a certain building is the tallest in Bismarck, North Dakota." So yes, some things are worse, but some things are better!

 

[flicx]

So, hubby and I just went over numbers, and they don't add up as despite showing park gate decreases in 3 out of 4 parks, the actual tally numbers don't equate to the percentages, as in 2010, more guests visited than in 2007, 2008 and 2009, yet those years, were flat or small increases.

Hubby is a banker and deals with this all of the time, so he's not sure if there was a reporting error in the actual guest counts, or, a percentage error?

In any respect, we can't continue this discussion based on these numbers, as I used the actual tally numbers in the millions for my post, but the percentage numbers don't equate to those.

Like I said, based on guests walking through the gates, the TEA report for 2010 shows more guests walked through the gates last year than in the past 4 years, yet they are reporting a small percentage decrease over the previous year, yet in 2009, less guests walked through the gates. Doesn't compute!

Sorry, Tiger

Disney for whatever reason will never release individual park numbers.I really don't know what they are afraid of.I personally think they want to keep any declines on the down low.TEA I believe must have some way of estimating,but in the end who knows.Seems to me like someone at TEA or at disney has trouble counting!

 

[Tiger926]

Disney for whatever reason will never release individual park numbers.I really don't know what they are afraid of.I personally think they want to keep any declines on the down low.TEA I believe must have some way of estimating,but in the end who knows.Seems to me like someone at TEA or at disney has trouble counting!

I'm pretty sure that Disney releases them to TEA or some very close estimate, as the numbers are pretty detailed.

The problem was only for 2010, as I went back until 2006, and most of those numbers seemed to add up just fine.

I think it's just like inflation...there is a built in cushion to account for things like the economy, park refurbishments, competition (Harry Potter had an effect on Disney's 2010 attendance) etc. All of these factors would have an effect on gate attendance. So would park hopping though, so it would be interesting to see how they factor in that variable?

For me, when you are talking about almost 50 million guests...more than any other family destination in the world, going down by 1 million guests is not so huge that I would say it's proving that Disney is in a steady decline at all, especially since we don't have all of the information we need to track whether it is a true decline or not.

As we've done many times before, we'll just have to disagree about how Disney is in a decline. These numbers just don't prove that to me, as once again, a true decline would have to be shown over several years. That's how tracking and patterns work...if in 5 years, there is a steady decrease each and every year at WDW, then I'll revisit this conversation with you, as we would have the actual numbers to prove that decline.

Thanks, Tiger