Do You think DISNEY has gone down hlll the last few years?

[KSDisneyDad]

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Hey there.

Yes, I do agree Disney is building new products such as the Disney Cruise ships which costs billions of dollars to make. They're going to expand Fantasyland, and add Avatar. These are all GREAT THINGSj and you do make some valid points. But my contention is why can't they maintain what they have before they create "more". For instance the holes in the screen at Soarin, the monorail maintenance issue, some resorts that are in dire need of repair (Grand Floridian premiere rooms need refurbishing as does some of the DVC rooms, some say are very tired looking.) The old swan boat pavillion is in dire need of a paint job, the O'Canada movie clip is still from 1983 as in the video clips in France and China. Personally, in my opinion I would think Disney should stay current with State of the Art Technology. I know some things they do a wonderful job in. I would say most things they do a wonderful job in, but there are the above issues, just to name a few that really do need to be repaired/refurbished etc. It does sadden me a bit to see this because when I first went to Walt Disney World as a child, Disney was State of the Art! It was a definite WOW factor.

Brunette

I know that you look at both the good and the bad. I just wanted to get the good out there again as it seems to get lost in this thread. Some on here only want to focus on the negative and will feed on any bit of negative info like piranahs attacking a wounded animal in the Amazon.

As an FYI, the China film was updated in May 2003 and the Canada film was updated in August 2007.

Although the GF is in need of repair, don't forget they just recently refurbed many of the Moderates including adding queen size beds!! The new Princess rooms at POR seem great for families with small kids. Talk about a wow factor. Staying in a room with props from the movies and LED pictures with fireworks. That said, I was very disappointed in POR before the rehab. But I was very happy with our last two stays at BLT and BWV. BWV could have used a little sprucing up, but it was still in great condition overall.

We are in the process of doing our future trip planning. We will be taking two Disney cruises in 2012 so won't be doing WDW except for a couple of days. In 2013, we are going to France. In 2014, we wanted to go to Washington DC, but our kids are insisting that we go back to WDW. When I asked why, they looked at me like I had two heads. They are still very much "wowed" by WDW. I think many or even most new guests are still "wowed". Like I said in my original post, those who attend often will sometimes get disappointed as they see the man behind the curtain.

 

[Tiger926]

Because if they felt there is no problems and people would pay anything, they would not run discounts all year long, even in July when you go.

I will agree that during low seasons, Disney may go back to quieter periods, like before FD. But, during peak seasons, there are usually no or very little discounts, and the parks are full.

Take a look at prices for this coming holiday season and you'll be stunned. Value Rooms are like $160/night. Yikes! People still do pay those rates, as I've said many times on here, as we've met many of them.

Again, this thread is full of people who go often, but for first/only timers, they spend more on their trip to Disney, as many of them know nothing of this board, Mouesavers or promos.

I have already said that I feel that discounts are not good for companies as people expect discounts, but Disney caters to different guests: first/only timers and repeat guests. Repeat guests (non-DVC) seem to demand discounts, and that is where there might be issues for Disney, as a certain level of repeat visitors is great for business, so I'm sure they will have to be careful as they've set up a demand for discounts.

But, as we all remember, Disney never used to give discounts, and people still went to Disney, so only time will tell how they will handle it as the economy has changed drastically since then, as has the fact that there are more off-site hotels to choose from.

I agree,without discounts disney is in for a real drop in attendance.If they cut discounts back all together they will see a substantial loss IMO.

What is substantial to you? What number are we talking about?

If attendance numbers are correct or close to it, Disney gets close to 50 million visitors annually, so substantial for me is over 50%, and I am pretty confident that they are not going to lose 20 - 25 million guests. You may stop going, but again, you can't extrapolate that onto the other millions of guests who go to Disney on an annual basis. Disney's bread and butter are two groups: first/only timers and DVC. Us DVC members have already given Disney thousands in prepaid vacations, plus pay thousands in yearly dues, and first/only timers are much more inclined to pay higher prices for their trips, as so many of them do dream trips to Disney. I've met many of them, and their pricepoint threshhold is much higher than yours or mine is. All of us have limits, but again, repeat visitors might have lower limits than first/only timers.

Will they lose some guests? Sure, but there are other variables that might come into play as to why people may not travel to Disney, and price is just one of several.

I know that you look at both the good and the bad. I just wanted to get the good out there again as it seems to get lost in this thread. Some on here only want to focus on the negative and will feed on any bit of negative info like piranahs attacking a wounded animal in the Amazon.

As an FYI, the China film was updated in May 2003 and the Canada film was updated in August 2007.

Although the GF is in need of repair, don't forget they just recently refurbed many of the Moderates including adding queen size beds!! The new Princess rooms at POR seem great for families with small kids. Talk about a wow factor. Staying in a room with props from the movies and LED pictures with fireworks. That said, I was very disappointed in POR before the rehab. But I was very happy with our last two stays at BLT and BWV. BWV could have used a little sprucing up, but it was still in great condition overall.

We are in the process of doing our future trip planning. We will be taking two Disney cruises in 2012 so won't be doing WDW except for a couple of days. In 2013, we are going to France. In 2014, we wanted to go to Washington DC, but our kids are insisting that we go back to WDW. When I asked why, they looked at me like I had two heads. They are still very much "wowed" by WDW. I think many or even most new guests are still "wowed". Like I said in my original post, those who attend often will sometimes get disappointed as they see the man behind the curtain.

Yup, I would venture to say that most, if not all first/only timers are wowed by Disney. It's repeat visitors, like most on this thread, who have a basis for comparison and their disappointment levels are higher in this regard.

Despite what some on here are claiming, I don't feel Disney is in drastic trouble, and will see serious drops in attendance if they continue down this path. Millions of people will travel to Disney who pay rack rate, and they will have a fabulous time by spending on merchandise and eating in the restaurants. They are wowed by Disney, and would never dream of classifying it as going downhill. They are different travellers than most of us repeat travellers are, and that is why this thread is so detail oriented for some of us, as we truly are cognizant of the differences between first/only timers and repeat guests.

Tiger

 

[KellyNY]

I will agree that during low seasons, Disney may go back to quieter periods, like before FD. But, during peak seasons, there are usually no or very little discounts, and the parks are full.

Take a look at prices for this coming holiday season and you'll be stunned. Value Rooms are like $160/night. Yikes! People still do pay those rates, as I've said many times on here, as we've met many of them.

Again, this thread is full of people who go often, but for first/only timers, they spend more on their trip to Disney, as many of them know nothing of this board, Mouesavers or promos.

I have already said that I feel that discounts are not good for companies as people expect discounts, but Disney caters to different guests: first/only timers and repeat guests. Repeat guests (non-DVC) seem to demand discounts, and that is where there might be issues for Disney, as a certain level of repeat visitors is great for business, so I'm sure they will have to be careful as they've set up a demand for discounts.

But, as we all remember, Disney never used to give discounts, and people still went to Disney, so only time will tell how they will handle it as the economy has changed drastically since then, as has the fact that there are more off-site hotels to choose from.

Actually except Thanksgiving and Christmas NYE weeks, as far as I can see offers, I assume there are some holes for Spring Break but I am too lazy to look, everything else is on sale so far. We are talking here about the most popular times to go, times when EMH are must, when you must be onsite, of course people pay, many can go only during those weeks but you can rarely find deals to any destination or airlines during those weeks and people go. Question is can disney survive being full to capacity in both parks and hotels only few weeks a year, I do not think so and this is why they run sales the rest of the time.
You are right, they did not have discounts before but they did not have such prices.
BTW, first comers are not the same today as we were years ago, they are educated about prices and do researches, just one click away on computers or even a phone and this is another reason for discounts, first comers know prices of on and off site. They may not be able to compare last years, nor level of service but comparing present prices and see the difference is very easy.

 

[Tiger926]

Actually except Thanksgiving and Christmas NYE weeks, as far as I can see offers, I assume there are some holes for Spring Break but I am too lazy to look, everything else is on sale so far. We are talking here about the most popular times to go, times when EMH are must, when you must be onsite, of course people pay, many can go only during those weeks but you can rarely find deals to any destination or airlines during those weeks and people go. Question is can disney survive being full to capacity in both parks and hotels only few weeks a year, I do not think so and this is why they run sales the rest of the time.
You are right, they did not have discounts before but they did not have such prices.
BTW, first comers are not the same today as we were years ago, they are educated about prices and do researches, just one click away on computers or even a phone and this is another reason for discounts, first comers know prices of on and off site. They may not be able to compare last years, nor level of service but comparing present prices and see the difference is very easy.

No discounts this year for NYE, as I mentioned I looked as I needed to add a cash night. Discounts end on Christmas Day. Maybe some will come in the next few weeks, but I don't think so, as that is the busiest time of year. Why give discounts when people are willing to pay for the product at full price? Some resorts seem to be totally sold out, as I did a wide search for resorts on the days before NYE.

I do agree that first/only timers are smarter now than they were years ago, but in my experience of working with many to plan trips, they have higher travel budgets. It was I who let them know about discounts, as they had no idea, despite doing research.

Disney is a dream destination for many people, and they will pay for those dreams. The question is, how much?

Not sure if Disney knows that answer at this time, as people are fickle, and the economy is very precarious, so you put those two things together, and you have to tread a delicate balance.

Life before discounts was different at Disney, but the parks were very quiet during certain times of the year, and restaurants were empty. Now, they are full at more times, and busier than ever during what were essentially dead periods. I don't think that is all related to discounts.

People want to go to Disney, and now more than ever, I meet people who are making that dream a reality. How much are they willing to pay? I think Disney has been searching for that answer for years, and will continue to do so.

Tiger

 

[flicx]

What is substantial to you? What number are we talking about?

If attendance numbers are correct or close to it, Disney gets close to 50 million visitors annually, so substantial for me is over 50%, and I am pretty confident that they are not going to lose 20 - 25 million guests. You may stop going, but again, you can't extrapolate that onto the other millions of guests who go to Disney on an annual basis. Disney's bread and butter are two groups: first/only timers and DVC. Us DVC members have already given Disney thousands in prepaid vacations, plus pay thousands in yearly dues, and first/only timers are much more inclined to pay higher prices for their trips, as so many of them do dream trips to Disney. I've met many of them, and their pricepoint threshhold is much higher than yours or mine is. All of us have limits, but again, repeat visitors might have lower limits than first/only timers.



Tiger

Are you kidding tiger,if disney stops all discounts they will lose major business.You can take that to the bank.Thier rack rates on rooms are fantasy prices,not even close to reality.Let's not even get going on meals at disney,they are high priced and that is probably being kind.Tie all that in with overpriced souveniers and tickets approaching 100 dollars a day.Wow,no discounts is a fantasy,if they do that it will be very very ugly!I also don't buy in to the first timer thing.Really the majority of 40 to 50 million people a year are first timers.So in the last 20 years when about a billion people went through the gates most were first timers?I don't buy it.There are plenty of non dvc people who aren't first timers who go through the gates every year.Of course with the way disney is with numbers I wouldn't believe what they say about those percentages either.It is obvious they can't be straight forward with regular attendance so why divulge those numbers either!

 

[WDSearcher]

Are you kidding tiger,if disney stops all discounts they will lose major business.You can take that to the bank.Thier rack rates on rooms are fantasy prices,not even close to reality.

It would be easier to understand this kind of comment if you gave a few examples to show your point. You say that Disney's rack rates are "not even close to reality", but they had to come from somewhere. It's not like Disney is just throwing darts at targets and making prices up.

Which resorts (obviously non-Disney) do you consider to have "realistic" rack-rate prices, and what would you consider realistic? For example ... how do Disney's rack rates for moderate (or even deluxe, I guess) stack up against the rack rates for Portofino Bay or Hard Rock? That seems like a fair comparison. What is rack rate at Nickelodeon or Gaylord?

You keep saying that Disney is unreasonable, but you provide nothing to compare it to, so it's realy just basically your opinion, even if you state it as fact.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

people do not spend more, they are charged more.

Same difference. They are obviously willing to SPEND what they are CHARGED, or they wouldn't take the trip! No one donates money to a theme park (or to consume any product or enjoy any service) out of the kindness of their hearts - it's not charity. They show their willingness to pay whatever is being charged by actually going to WDW.

How else would you have any company measure the interest in their product than by how much $$ they collect by selling it? If profits are up, they're up. You can try to slice and dice this in a negative light if desired, but $$/customer speaks for itself. Whether it's sustainable or not once discounts disappear will be reflected in Disney's next 10-K. These are objective measures that one can't escape, no matter how any particular individual (myself included!) subjectively feels about the offerings.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Are you kidding tiger,if disney stops all discounts they will lose major business.

Conjecture. You may or may not be guessing right here.

My guess would be that if/when discounts go away it will be because Disney is forecasting or observing growth in the general economy. That economic growth = more disposable income = increased tourism overall = increased sales for Disney. Thus they are forecasting that while some people will drop out of the market due to price increases, others will enter due to an increase in disposable income.

So much talk here seems to be predicated on the notion that Disney will randomly decide to hike prices and pull discounts, without ANY business reason to suggest this will be profitable. This makes no sense.

 

[KellyNY]

No discounts this year for NYE, as I mentioned I looked as I needed to add a cash night. Discounts end on Christmas Day. Maybe some will come in the next few weeks, but I don't think so, as that is the busiest time of year. Why give discounts when people are willing to pay for the product at full price? Some resorts seem to be totally sold out, as I did a wide search for resorts on the days before NYE.

I know, that is what I said, but my point was people are not that willing to pay full price the rest of the year which is clearly shown by all the discounts.


I do agree that first/only timers are smarter now than they were years ago, but in my experience of working with many to plan trips, they have higher travel budgets. It was I who let them know about discounts, as they had no idea, despite doing research.

Not sure how discounts could escape them when they are right on disney site and also disney runs ads non stop on TV. In fact we already agreed that fd and other discounts are sucessful for disney and since majority are first timers then discounts are exactly what brings them in and raising attendance numbers.

Disney is a dream destination for many people, and they will pay for those dreams. The question is, how much?

Not sure if Disney knows that answer at this time, as people are fickle, and the economy is very precarious, so you put those two things together, and you have to tread a delicate balance.

I think right now they know exactly what people willing to pay as attenance was lower without discounts and higher with. We cannot speak about times when economy will go up and salaries will go up as it still unclear future but we can speak about today.

Life before discounts was different at Disney, but the parks were very quiet during certain times of the year, and restaurants were empty. Now, they are full at more times, and busier than ever during what were essentially dead periods. I don't think that is all related to discounts.

I do not know what else it can relate to, schools, holidays seasons did not change, only change is discounts. As for restaurants, I blame fd, not only people use it now more but they book several places for the same time frame, so others cannot get in. I hope new adr system will fix this problem.

People want to go to Disney, and now more than ever, I meet people who are making that dream a reality. How much are they willing to pay? I think Disney has been searching for that answer for years, and will continue to do so.

Tiger

Tiger, sorry, but what makes you think that people want to go now more then ever, where did you get it from. Right now disney runs discounts and anyone who priced vacation before and thought it was way too much, jumps on offer and go, but will they come back when there will be no offers, will they return even with discounts, big question.

Same difference. They are obviously willing to SPEND what they are CHARGED, or they wouldn't take the trip! No one donates money to a theme park (or to consume any product or enjoy any service) out of the kindness of their hearts - it's not charity. They show their willingness to pay whatever is being charged by actually going to WDW.

My point was, not sure if it was clear, that spending increase is only indication of price increase, nothing else. Yes, people are willing to pay discounted prices which is reflected in spening report and if you ask me why, because it is almost the same as it used to be before prices went up. But this is not what we discussing here. What about non discounted prices, are people willing to pay except few holiday weeks. does not look like to me , otherwise disney would not run discounts. disney is also not a charity and will get money any way they can, so question is why would they run all discounts all year long, because people are not willing to pay otherwise.

.

 

[WDSearcher]

Tiger, sorry, but what makes you think that people want to go now more then ever, where did you get it from. Right now disney runs discounts and anyone who priced vacation before and thought it was way too much, jumps on offer an go, but will they come back when there will be no offers, will they return even with discounts, big question.

But what makes you think that people DON'T want to go more than ever?

Disney is offering discounts to make it more attractive to visit, certainly. But it's also a function of the economy as a whole. People have less money to spend on vacations, and so Disney offers discounts (like every other vacation destination is right now) so that people can use their more limited funds to go on vacation. Disney is NOT alone in this strategy. There are discounts galore at everyplace from Six Flags to Dollywood to Broadway to Vegas. Every travel destination out there is competing for the smaller and smaller segment of people who have money available to travel.

The biggest cost for a Disney vacation for most people is the cost of the flight to get them there. Disney doesn't have control over airfares, so if they want to show people that yes, they CAN take a vacation this year, they offer discounts to help offset the high cost of air travel or gas. Discounts don't ONLY mean that Disney or Universal or wherever is having trouble filling the parks or resorts. Sometimes it's a way to jumpstart the consumer's mind into thinking "vacation".

If Disney were to take away discounts now, it would definitely affect the number of people who visit. But so would higher gas prices. Or more taxes on airfare. Or more bed taxes on hotel rooms.

Disney does not exist in a vacuum. Prices AT the parks are only one piece of a Disney vacation.

 

[KellyNY]

Disney is offering discounts to make it more attractive to visit, certainly. But it's also a function of the economy as a whole. People have less money to spend on vacations, and so Disney offers discounts (like every other vacation destination is right now) so that people can use their more limited funds to go on vacation. Disney is NOT alone in this strategy. There are discounts galore at everyplace from Six Flags to Dollywood to Broadway to Vegas. Every travel destination out there is competing for the smaller and smaller segment of people who have money available to travel.

Except that disney raised prices first and then offered discounts, unlike other destinations, which virtually gave them same profit as before, slightly more actually as they raising prices on all segments on vacation but offer discount on only one. Anyway, this is exactly what stores do during big sales, and unless you were comparing prices you will get under a charm of deal of the lifetime, which is exactly what happens.

 

[Tiger926]

Are you kidding tiger,if disney stops all discounts they will lose major business.You can take that to the bank.Thier rack rates on rooms are fantasy prices,not even close to reality.Let's not even get going on meals at disney,they are high priced and that is probably being kind.Tie all that in with overpriced souveniers and tickets approaching 100 dollars a day.Wow,no discounts is a fantasy,if they do that it will be very very ugly!I also don't buy in to the first timer thing.Really the majority of 40 to 50 million people a year are first timers.So in the last 20 years when about a billion people went through the gates most were first timers?I don't buy it.There are plenty of non dvc people who aren't first timers who go through the gates every year.Of course with the way disney is with numbers I wouldn't believe what they say about those percentages either.It is obvious they can't be straight forward with regular attendance so why divulge those numbers either!

Yes, I am serious. You are entitled to your opinion, but you seem to be making this personal towards Disney, and that is not how business works. You feel a certain way, but you don't seem to have facts to back it up. You make huge generalizations about Disney that are solely based on opinion. Disney has alluded to it before, that a large majority of visitors are first/only timers. Not sure if it's more than us DVC members, but it's a very large number. They have the real numbers, and conduct business accordingly.

I get that you are angry and upset that Disney is in your opinion overpriced, but just because you feel this way, it does not mean it is reflective of all other Disney guests. I'm sure some people feel like you do, but there are still millions who pay the price for Disney's product, and that is that.

I totally see that you are passionate about Disney, and that you consider the prices to be too high, but it's not reasonable for you to assume that all people feel the same way as you do. You at least should be open to the fact that Disney may not be in as much trouble as you keep stressing. The very fact that almost 50 million walk through the gates, would seem to suggest otherwise.

It would be easier to understand this kind of comment if you gave a few examples to show your point. You say that Disney's rack rates are "not even close to reality", but they had to come from somewhere. It's not like Disney is just throwing darts at targets and making prices up.

Which resorts (obviously non-Disney) do you consider to have "realistic" rack-rate prices, and what would you consider realistic? For example ... how do Disney's rack rates for moderate (or even deluxe, I guess) stack up against the rack rates for Portofino Bay or Hard Rock? That seems like a fair comparison. What is rack rate at Nickelodeon or Gaylord?

You keep saying that Disney is unreasonable, but you provide nothing to compare it to, so it's realy just basically your opinion, even if you state it as fact.

Same difference. They are obviously willing to SPEND what they are CHARGED, or they wouldn't take the trip! No one donates money to a theme park (or to consume any product or enjoy any service) out of the kindness of their hearts - it's not charity. They show their willingness to pay whatever is being charged by actually going to WDW.

How else would you have any company measure the interest in their product than by how much $$ they collect by selling it? If profits are up, they're up. You can try to slice and dice this in a negative light if desired, but $$/customer speaks for itself. Whether it's sustainable or not once discounts disappear will be reflected in Disney's next 10-K. These are objective measures that one can't escape, no matter how any particular individual (myself included!) subjectively feels about the offerings.

Conjecture. You may or may not be guessing right here.

My guess would be that if/when discounts go away it will be because Disney is forecasting or observing growth in the general economy. That economic growth = more disposable income = increased tourism overall = increased sales for Disney. Thus they are forecasting that while some people will drop out of the market due to price increases, others will enter due to an increase in disposable income.

So much talk here seems to be predicated on the notion that Disney will randomly decide to hike prices and pull discounts, without ANY business reason to suggest this will be profitable. This makes no sense.

Exactly. There are some on here who have very passionate opinions about whether Disney is in trouble or going downhill, and it is just personal opinion based on their own experiences. Disney does not conduct business by the seat of their pants, but based on some of these responses on here, you would think they did!

.

Would love to respond to you, but the way you do the quote feature is difficult. Sorry!

But what makes you think that people DON'T want to go more than ever?

Disney is offering discounts to make it more attractive to visit, certainly. But it's also a function of the economy as a whole. People have less money to spend on vacations, and so Disney offers discounts (like every other vacation destination is right now) so that people can use their more limited funds to go on vacation. Disney is NOT alone in this strategy. There are discounts galore at everyplace from Six Flags to Dollywood to Broadway to Vegas. Every travel destination out there is competing for the smaller and smaller segment of people who have money available to travel.

The biggest cost for a Disney vacation for most people is the cost of the flight to get them there. Disney doesn't have control over airfares, so if they want to show people that yes, they CAN take a vacation this year, they offer discounts to help offset the high cost of air travel or gas. Discounts don't ONLY mean that Disney or Universal or wherever is having trouble filling the parks or resorts. Sometimes it's a way to jumpstart the consumer's mind into thinking "vacation".

If Disney were to take away discounts now, it would definitely affect the number of people who visit. But so would higher gas prices. Or more taxes on airfare. Or more bed taxes on hotel rooms.

Disney does not exist in a vacuum. Prices AT the parks are only one piece of a Disney vacation.

Exactly! Almost 50 million visitors (if those numbers are accurate), is a huge number, so people do want to go to Disney - there is no longer any quiet time at the parks, so yeah, many people want to go to Disney. With their current discount program, it seems to be working well for them.

Thanks for reiterating what I've been trying to for so long on this thread. There are many variables that go into what makes Disney an affordable destination, why families choose to go there, and how Disney makes decisions as to pricing their products. Many factors go into family vacations, so it's smart of Disney to look at different angles.

As I've said before on this thread, I don't think Disney needs to be affordable to all people. All of us have different levels of incomes, and so the different price points at Disney resorts, hit all levels. What is expensive to some, is not expensive to others. Disney is a luxury product, plain and simple. Vacations are not necessities in life.

In my opinion, it's very naive for people to assume that they and Disney are always going to agree on what a 'reasonable' cost for their products are. If it's too much for a family, then they can choose to go elsewhere. I happen to think that most of Disney is a good value for my family, and the parts that I think aren't, like dining, I don't partake in any longer. But I would never presume that just because I feel that dining is not a great value for my family, I can then decide that all of Disney is overpriced and that Disney is going downhill. That is not a reasonable conclusion, considering that almost 50 million people visit the parks each year, and for many of these people, dining is ok.

Still continues to be a very interesting discussion, Tiger

 

[WDSearcher]

Except that disney raised prices first and then offered discounts, unlike other destinations, which virtually gave them same profit as before, slightly more actually as they raising prices on all segments on vacation but offer discount on only one. Anyway, this is exactly what stores do during big sales, and unless you were comparing prices you will get under a charm of deal of the lifetime, which is exactly what happens.

I wouldn't say "unlike other destinations."

SeaWorld raised its prices twice in the past 12 months, and after each price increase they announced "special offers" for locals or for passholders or for certain packages. When Universal raised it's prices for the opening of WWoHP, there were suddenly all sorts of discounts to be had at Portofino and Hard Rock. But souvenir prices at Harry Potter also spiked because they knew people would pay higher prices to buy something from the Wizarding World than they would if they were buying it anywhere else. The wand I can by at Olivanders inside WWoHP can be had for 25% less elsewhere, but people want to buy it AT WWoHP, and Universal knows that.

Disney may be the largest theme park that does this kind of discounting, but it's certainly not the ONLY theme park that does it.

If you look at attendance numbers (and someone also posted this upthread), Universal's attendance went through the roof when Harry Potter opened. It continues to beat expectations, yet Universal is still discounting hotels, offering "eat all day for one price" packages and doing all sorts of combination discounts. If the theory is that parks discount because they need to get people in the door, then why would Universal have to offer discounts when their numbers are actually up?

It's because even with higher numbers, they can't get the profit they need on that alone. More people are walking in the gate, but they're spending less once they get there. So Universal -- like Disney -- is offering discounts and deals to entice people to stay on-site, eat on-site, and buy more stuff.

It's happening industry-wide.

 

[Tiger926]

I wouldn't say "unlike other destinations."

SeaWorld raised its prices twice in the past 12 months, and after each price increase they announced "special offers" for locals or for passholders or for certain packages. When Universal raised it's prices for the opening of WWoHP, there were suddenly all sorts of discounts to be had at Portofino and Hard Rock. But souvenir prices at Harry Potter also spiked because they knew people would pay higher prices to buy something from the Wizarding World than they would if they were buying it anywhere else. The wand I can by at Olivanders inside WWoHP can be had for 25% less elsewhere, but people want to buy it AT WWoHP, and Universal knows that.

Disney may be the largest theme park that does this kind of discounting, but it's certainly not the ONLY theme park that does it.

If you look at attendance numbers (and someone also posted this upthread), Universal's attendance went through the roof when Harry Potter opened. It continues to beat expectations, yet Universal is still discounting hotels, offering "eat all day for one price" packages and doing all sorts of combination discounts. If the theory is that parks discount because they need to get people in the door, then why would Universal have to offer discounts when their numbers are actually up?

It's because even with higher numbers, they can't get the profit they need on that alone. More people are walking in the gate, but they're spending less once they get there. So Universal -- like Disney -- is offering discounts and deals to entice people to stay on-site, eat on-site, and buy more stuff.

It's happening industry-wide.

ITA! Although, in some reports that I have read for Disney, it seems to suggest that incidental spending is up (merchandise and food) this past year. Not sure?

Regardless, Universal offers lots of discounts too, just like Disney, and pretty much most other places that I see in today's economy.

Discount psychology is very real...The FD promotion has been working very well for Disney to get millions of people through their gates. Only time will tell how Disney is going to proceed, as they make decisions based on the many factors such as the economy, competition, etc.

Disney was able to convince millions of people that FD is the best promotion for their families, so perhaps they have something else up their sleeves? Disney hardly ever used to discount, so it will be interesting to see what the future holds. Regardless, Sea World and Universal both discount as well, so I'm sure they will keep some form of discounts, as it has brought a steady flux of guests into the parks on a consistent basis, but I don't believe that Disney will go downhill and lose millions of guests if they change their discount programs. People will still come, just like they always have. Perhaps not as many, but they will still come, as Disney still continues to wow millions of people...

Tiger

 

[KellyNY]

I wouldn't say "unlike other destinations."

SeaWorld raised its prices twice in the past 12 months, and after each price increase they announced "special offers" for locals or for passholders or for certain packages. When Universal raised it's prices for the opening of WWoHP, there were suddenly all sorts of discounts to be had at Portofino and Hard Rock. But souvenir prices at Harry Potter also spiked because they knew people would pay higher prices to buy something from the Wizarding World than they would if they were buying it anywhere else. The wand I can by at Olivanders inside WWoHP can be had for 25% less elsewhere, but people want to buy it AT WWoHP, and Universal knows that.

Disney may be the largest theme park that does this kind of discounting, but it's certainly not the ONLY theme park that does it.

If you look at attendance numbers (and someone also posted this upthread), Universal's attendance went through the roof when Harry Potter opened. It continues to beat expectations, yet Universal is still discounting hotels, offering "eat all day for one price" packages and doing all sorts of combination discounts. If the theory is that parks discount because they need to get people in the door, then why would Universal have to offer discounts when their numbers are actually up?

It's because even with higher numbers, they can't get the profit they need on that alone. More people are walking in the gate, but they're spending less once they get there. So Universal -- like Disney -- is offering discounts and deals to entice people to stay on-site, eat on-site, and buy more stuff.

It's happening industry-wide.

universal situation is quiet different. They kept price unchanged for years, while adding rides here an there, for tickets at least, I was not following hotel prices, and after major addition they had a reson to raise prices. They ran a huge discount right before WWOHP opened, right before they raised prices. difference however between disney and universal, universal is not full vacation destination and they run discounts on longer then 3 days stays to make people stay longer. It is not only about profit with universal, they have more then they ever did, although there is no such thing as too much money , it is about changing the way people view them and builing full vacation visitors.

 

[Tiger926]

universal situation is quiet different. They kept price unchanged for years, while adding rides here an there, for tickets at least, I was not following hotel prices, and after major addition they had a reson to raise prices. They ran a huge discount right before WWOHP opened, right before they raised prices. difference however between disney and universal, universal is not full vacation destination and they run discounts on longer then 3 days stays to make people stay longer. It is not only about profit with universal, they have more then they ever did, although there is no such thing as too much money , it is about changing the way people view them and builing full vacation visitors.

What about value for dollar - Universal vs Disney?

Disney's tix are more, but for approx. $100.00 more per multiticket pass (4 days), you get access to 2 additional parks, whereas at Universal you get 2 parks only. We haven't been to Universal in years, and would love to see Harry Potter, but for sheer attractions, entertainment and varied activities for our family, Disney winds hands down!

It's just like Sea World as well - per day ticket prices at all 3 parks (Disney, Sea World and Universal) are pretty close, so for us, more value for us at Disney. Even if Disney goes downhill in a few areas (we are always hopeful that things will improve with dining or merchandise quality), it is still a better destination for our family.

Not saying that those other parks aren't worth visiting, as we have been several times, just that for our family dynamic, Disney provides more value for our entertainment dollar.

Tiger

 

[WDSearcher]

universal situation is quiet different. They kept price unchanged for years, while adding rides here an there, for tickets at least, I was not following hotel prices, and after major addition they had a reson to raise prices. They ran a huge discount right before WWOHP opened, right before they raised prices. difference however between disney and universal, universal is not full vacation destination and they run discounts on longer then 3 days stays to make people stay longer. It is not only about profit with universal, they have more then they ever did, although there is no such thing as too much money , it is about changing the way people view them and builing full vacation visitors.

I would love proof of this -- like a list of prices or something. Because I don't see how Universal could have "kept price unchanged for years" and still be exactly the same price for a one day / one park ticket as Disney. Either they kept pace over the years or at some point they made a huge price increase in order to catch up. It wasn't when Harry Potter opened. Disney and Universal were the same price just prior to WWoHP.

From what I remember, every time Disney raised it's prices, Universal was right behind them. It was often cheaper to visit Universal, since they had so many discounts running for everything, so that may be what you're thinking of. But from a rack rate perspective, it has always been the same price to visit one as the other, with raises from one followed by the other within a few months. Would love to see a chart that lists how much it cost for Disney vs. Universal over the years and who raised prices when.

 

[KellyNY]

What about value for dollar - Universal vs Disney?

Disney's tix are more, but for approx. $100.00 more per multiticket pass (4 days), you get access to 2 additional parks, whereas at Universal you get 2 parks only. We haven't been to Universal in years, and would love to see Harry Potter, but for sheer attractions, entertainment and varied activities for our family, Disney winds hands down!

It's just like Sea World as well - per day ticket prices at all 3 parks (Disney, Sea World and Universal) are pretty close, so for us, more value for us at Disney.

Not saying that those other parks aren't worth visiting, as we have been several times, just that for our family dynamic, Disney provides more value for our entertainment dollar.

Tiger

what value got to do with this discussion. we do not discuss why universal tickets are less expensive, but how they kept price for years and how their discounts serve same or different purpose from disney discounts.

 

[KellyNY]

I would love proof of this -- like a list of prices or something. Because I don't see how Universal could have "kept price unchanged for years" and still be exactly the same price for a one day / one park ticket as Disney. Either they kept pace over the years or at some point they made a huge price increase in order to catch up. It wasn't when Harry Potter opened. Disney and Universal were the same price just prior to WWoHP.

From what I remember, every time Disney raised it's prices, Universal was right behind them. It was often cheaper to visit Universal, since they had so many discounts running for everything, so that may be what you're thinking of. But from a rack rate perspective, it has always been the same price to visit one as the other, with raises from one followed by the other within a few months. Would love to see a chart that lists how much it cost for Disney vs. Universal over the years and who raised prices when.

Cannot provide chart, all I remember that I paid 99 or 89 for 2 days at universal and could use ticket for7 days, that was the offer 8 or so years ago and it was the same right before WWOHP. In fact right before WWOHP there was a huge sale, I think it was 59 or 69 for 2 days.

 

[Tiger926]

Cannot provide chart, all I remember that I paid 99 or 89 for 2 days at universal and could use ticket for7 days, that was the offer 8 or so years ago and it was the same right before WWOHP. In fact right before WWOHP there was a huge sale, I think it was 59 or 69 for 2 days.

Just checked, and 4 day multi ticket is $155 plus tax.

what value got to do with this discussion. we do not discuss why universal tickets are less expensive, but how they kept price for years and how their discounts serve same or different purpose from disney discounts.

Sorry, had a cut and paste error, so some of my original post was missing.

If you don't think it has anything to do with it, then why are you discussing ticket prices above? I find it amusing that people claim that Disney is going downhill in value, yet Universal's daily rate tix are close to the same as Disney, yet they only have 2 parks. Universal has been using discounts for years to secure guests, as has Sea World. As Searcher said above, all 3 Orlando parks' daily prices are virtually identical. And in fact, Sea World and Universal have raised prices several times in a year over the past decade. Why is it ok for them and not Disney?

Much of this discussion has been centred on the fact that some don't feel that Disney is of value any longer because of their pricing structure, so I'm wondering in comparison to a similar product (price and theming), how does it compare?

Many on here claim that Disney will be in dire trouble if they get rid of discounts, and many claim that Disney is way overpriced and is going downhill due to pricing alone, so I was interested in the comparison to Universal as many are saying that Universal has been going uphill due to the new Harry Potter attraction, and therefore I'm interested in what you thought based on this, park vs park.

Good businesses always know their competition, so I thought it would be interesting to hear from those who thought Disney is going downhill and Universal is going uphill.

Tiger