Do you think American kids get a bad rap on education?

[LuvOrlando]

So I just had another conversation with my MIL over whether or not American Kids are actually getting a substandard education.

I happen to think that the reason our aggregate test scores are so much lower than when compared to other countries has more to do with our testing practices than the kids. In this country we have an egalitarian society. As a result everyone who is enrolled in a school gets tested, even kids who can't hold a pencil or understand the questions are tested. Then these kids' scores are rolled into an average along with everyone else. So how do you take these numbers and compare them to other countries who are so philosophically different from ours? Countries where kids' may have to test into going to school in the first place? Countries where the poor, disabled or immigrant populations never get access? I think that if we were to use the same standards as the countries we are being compared to the picture would look a whole lot different. BTW, I am not saying we shouldn't include these groups, I'm just saying apples can't be compared to oranges.

Now MIL thinks I am way off base and that every country uses the same standards.

What do you think? Does anyone know how these other countries collect their education data and if they exclude poor performing groups or not?

 

[jlima]

I think the word you're trying to say is "rap".

 

[LuvOrlando]

LOL, my slang isn't what it used to be. Thanks for that.

PS, I know the question mark does not belong after the first statement in the poll, it was a typo but I don't know how to edit a poll.

 

[Judy from Boise]

I absolutely believe that there is wide variation in the test groups. In other countries (Japan comes to mind) the children are tested early (by 6th grade) and placed into "tracks". By the time they are testing High schoolers the Japan group is only composed of their college preppers, the vocational kids having been siphoned off much earlier.

 

[bumbershoot]

My husband did his middle school years in Taiwan.

When he came back, he was TWO YEARS ahead of his classmates. Two years. And that's despite undiagnosed, probable, dyslexia.

But his parents wouldn't let him get bumped up a grade or two. He was so bored when he came back to the states.


My point is...I think we're behind.

 

[sunnyday123]

My husband did his middle school years in Taiwan.

When he came back, he was TWO YEARS ahead of his classmates. Two years. And that's despite undiagnosed, probable, dyslexia.

But his parents wouldn't let him get bumped up a grade or two. He was so bored when he came back to the states.


My point is...I think we're behind.

And that's why Taiwan is so good at making all those little plastic toys!

Seriously, I think it's hard to compare another countries educational system to ours.

And by the way, a girl my daughter went to school with started going to a different ( public ) school this year. She said she's bored silly because they are doing stuff she did 2 years ago. So I don't think it's so much "country" related as school/teacher issues. And I happen to think that not all Americans are as dumb as a box of rocks. A few, but not all. I for one am tired of hearing the bad rap we get.

 

[minkydog]

You are spot on. In a lot of countries the only ones tested are the elite of the elite--those few students who are college bound. These kids have to jump through a lot of hoops to even get the privilege of testing. Most of them are diverted into other tracks--agriculture, mechanics, fine arts, etc. They aren't usually college bound and therefore do not take the tests.

Even in the US testing varies. For instance, SATs. Some states, like Georgia, test pretty much everyone whether they are college material or not. Often their test scores are lower because they may not be taking college prep classes. But their scores are included in the state's statistics, which skews the stats low. Other states only test college prep students. They tend to score higher anyway, therefore their state's statistics look higher.

I know a lot of HS students who are working above level in international baccalaureate and honors programs. They work long hours to maintain their grades and they are very smart. Those who are taking Advanced Placement classes are getting actual college credit! And it's not just a few kids, its a LOT of kids. Our HS has multiple Adv. Placement classes and Honors classes and we have had more than a few kids who have made perfect scores on their SATs. I would put some of them up against any student anywhere.

 

[mjkacmom]

My SIL had an exchange student from China stay with her for a year, and this girl couldn't believe how little work the HS students are expected to do. Where she lives, she basically goes to school, does homework, sleeps and eats. They do school work over holidays and summers, too.

 

[Wishing on a star]

What I think is very sad and frightening is how some think of our kids as 'pawns' in some international war/competition...

My child is NOT a pawn.
Especially now since we have absolutely nothing to do with the school system.

 

[tchrrx]

A lot of our problem is that the teacher's spend so much time giving test (in early grades, these are often individually given while the other kids are in centers learning on their own) and attending workshops about how to give tests, that they are not actually able to teach the children.

 

[~Kik-Kik~]

It's not "rap" it's "rep" as in reputation.

Yes, but I think our system sucks. It's not for the kids gaining education, it's for the schools to get money from the government. Also they keep kids in there for so long, I would support switching to a ridged year round school system and going to the Europian system. Ours is a hot mess.

 

[luvmy3]

I think in general our standards are too low and unfortunately there are too many schools who only teach and expect the students to meet them. There needs to be more that teach and expect the students to exceed them.

 

[WebmasterMaryJo]

I think it's a mix of both. When I was in high school we had a German exchange student. She was 15-1/2 & already taking physics in school. She qualified to be a senior, but because of her age she was put in the 11th grade. They do spend more time doing their studies than we do here

 

[Freyja]

I know that here in Iceland ALL students are tested. Even those who can´t read or write. There are no tests to enter school, so the scores include everyone!

 

[wdwfan16]

We spend too much time teaching useless things and not concentrating on the basics. Now a student cannot be held back without the parents permission. We mainstream rather than track. Tracking lets the best students move along at a faster rate.

Sadly we deserve the reputation we have but we can change it.

 

[eliza61]

First, my experience is with H.S. students so I don't know about middle and elementary schools.
I'm a research scientist for a major chemical company. Every 2 years my company sends some of it's scientist into h.s. to teach. Sorry, our level of science education is appalling. The material I taught to 11th graders would probably be taught in the 7th grade in Europe.

Don't believe me, look at who is making up the students in advance degree courses especially in the sciences. You'll see Asians, Indians, eastern europeans & lots of Africans, American students? Fewer and fewer. The President of Technology at google (Sergey Bin) was asked why google has so few minority software engineers. He replied, he barely can find American students with qualifications, let alone minority students. In order to stay competitive google needs to hire top graduates from MIT, Caltech, standford and the number of minorities in those program would fit on 1 hand, the number of Americans maybe 2.

When I taught a few years ago I was in a program called "women of Excellence". During the 5th or 6th grade American girls excel in science and math but by the time they get to H.S. they "dumb" themselves down. We need to find out why? what message do we send to our girls about education.

A couple of weeks ago, world news tonight did a report on how China is becoming the leader in "Green technology". You know that area that is supposed ot be where the future jobs are. They are pumping billions of bucks into their h.s. programs and college research. So in a few years when we really need alternative energy guess who's going to be left out of the market place (again) or playing catch up. Yep, good ole U.S.A

I can't comment on other states but the H.S. students I come across in NJ are in no way prepared for college. Most spend the first year, catching up to where they should be.

I do think we are falling way short.

 

[RadioNate]

I think we are falling short. My DS is in 3rd grade. They only go to science one week out of every 6 weeks. They have no social studies curriculum other than what is integrated into 'reading.'

My DS is a smart kid. He isn't in the gifted program (which was cut this year any way) but he is bright and curious. He is bored silly at school. Teaching to the lowest common denominator has gotten us farther behind.

My dad is a college professor at a community college. He teaches an entry level economics course. Only 50% of his students pass. He is constantly griping that the counseling department allowed kids to take his class when they are clearly unprepared. He talks about how his students don't have the necessary math background to even begin to comprehend some of the topics they cover. He gets frustrated, but knows that a lot of them are just in over their heads because HS didn't prepare them.

 

[hereyago]

We deserve the reputation. We don't even have a national curriculum. Until a few years ago, I thought all students were learning all the same thing. A friend moved and she was telling me that her DS was learning in this new state what he learned the year before in our state. So the new state was essentially a year behind.

And I am curious, how many of the parents on the DIS can access their child's school website, then go to another page and see their child's assignments, grades, etc.?

In my DD's school district, we can see the website, but not until the middle school and high school grades can we get instant access to grades, assignments, even homework given each night and if it is a work sheet, there is a download for those in case students left it at school

On the other hand: Say it were deemed that all U.S. students have year round school instead of summer breaks, some parents would have a cow.

There are SO many things that need to be changed with our education system on so many fronts. But it also takes the parents to be involved in their child's education.

 

[XYSRUS]

We're so behind it's beyond funny. The rest of the world is laughing at us. My new bumper sticker I made up...and my kids are all supposedly "gifted"..."Globally your honor student is a moron" hehehe....Kids, not only stay in school, but study!

 

[turkeymama]

We deserve the reputation. We don't even have a national curriculum. Until a few years ago, I thought all students were learning all the same thing. A friend moved and she was telling me that her DS was learning in this new state what he learned the year before in our state. So the new state was essentially a year behind.
And I am curious, how many of the parents on the DIS can access their child's school website, then go to another page and see their child's assignments, grades, etc.?
In my DD's school district, we can see the website, but not until the middle school and high school grades can we get instant access to grades, assignments, even homework given each night and if it is a work sheet, there is a download for those in case students left it at school
On the other hand: Say it were deemed that all U.S. students have year round school instead of summer breaks, some parents would have a cow.
There are SO many things that need to be changed with our education system on so many fronts. But it also takes the parents to be involved in their child's education.

The reason we don't have a national curriculum is because education has always been in the hands of individual states. Also, I suspect if we did have a national curriculum, the matter would probably get worse instead of better.

We live in Northern Louisiana and recently moved from a moderately sized city to a larger metropolitan area. While technology is still readily available, the curriculum seems far behind the smaller area we just moved from. The school my children are currently at is teaching curriculum from the appropriate grade-level, but I don't see any evidence that they are trying to challenge the students by incorporating curriculum from higher grades. However, we have instant access to all of the assignments and grades, and we can e-mail teachers straight from the website. That is a plus.

I will begin teaching next school year and I would personally love to see an all year school calendar. Although I haven't seen them myself, I've heard that statistics show students do better with year-round education. I would love to find those studies. I agree with you though, most parents would have a cow if the idea was implemented. I can't imagine why. It would seem like a win-win.