Do you think a college professor has the right to do this?

[Big Cuddly Bear]

If the 15 minutes was not important, it would have been scheduled as a 2.25 hour class that met once a week.

No offense intended, but it seems you have many comments that play down the "importance" of "respect" for this class: She works, it is "only" community college, it is only "15 minutes". It is a very nonchalant attitude that puzzles me.

Also--while the school suggests a little leeway for the evening crowd (which bugs me as all students should be held to the SAME standard IMHO and not get special "privileges "because they work hard all day before they come to school)--he could not provide that leeway since she kept her mouth closed.

It is also interesting that a morning 2.5 hour class fits her work schedule better than a 7pm class. Interesting how her job could make that work, but not to leave 15 minutes early so she would be ON TIME to her evening class.


Lastly--"paying" for something doesn't give you the right to go against the instructor's wishes and be tardy if they don't want tardy students.

I pay for my airline tickets. That plane leaves whether I am on it or not. They can hold it as a courtesy if they wish if another flight is late. But if my husband's meeting runs late, the plane does not wait. But they should, since he paid for it per your reasoning.

Of course a plane should leave... are you serious? If it doesn't thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars could be lost. And nobody asked the professor to wait for her. You want my opinions, well, you have my real opinions.

And I don't especially hold community college in high regard. I attended one for 1.5 years, and it was much more like extended high school than going to a 4 year college.

 

[Witch Mountain]

I've attended three different community colleges on my way to my bachelor's degree.

The advice I got from the very first one is that 'you get out of this school what you put into it." So if you don't hold it in high regard, you're not going to get everything you possibly can. Several people who went to the first CC with me (and only that school) have some pretty high-profile careers.

It all boils down to respect. There seems to be a shortage on your niece's front.

And how did she transfer classes so close to the end of the semester, anyway?

 

[hambirg]

Of course a plane should leave... are you serious? If it doesn't thousands or maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars could be lost. And nobody asked the professor to wait for her. You want my opinions, well, you have my real opinions.

And I don't especially hold community college in high regard. I attended one for 1.5 years, and it was much more like extended high school than going to a 4 year college.

I guess you went to the wrong CC. I have a post graduate degree and the best profs I ever had were at the CC level.

ETA-Not knocking my other profs. . .but my CC profs had a lot more time and attention to give. I also found them just as knowledgeable as my other profs. In fact, worst profs I ever had were in grad school. . .I feel like I should ask for a refund.

 

[Planogirl]

We have an excellent community college just behind our neighborhood. Extended high school? Maybe if you went to a real good high school but even that's stretching it.

I see that all around lack of respect too.

 

[WDWBlue]

I find it hard to believe that this late in the semester (my students take finals next week) that a student would be able to switch to another class, unless it was taught by the same exact professor with the same exact syllabus. Otherwise, how is she expected to catch up on a whole semester worth of work?

Like a bad television drama, papa deuce wants you to believe an amicable resolution was achieved at the last minute to save the day. You have to chuck common sense to buy into it, but that's his story and he's sticking to it.

Most will say "that ending makes no sense at all, I don't believe it."

 

[Big Cuddly Bear]

I guess you went to the wrong CC. I have a post graduate degree and the best profs I ever had were at the CC level.

ETA-Not knocking my other profs. . .but my CC profs had a lot more time and attention to give. I also found them just as knowledgeable as my other profs. In fact, worst profs I ever had were in grad school. . .I feel like I should ask for a refund.

I will concede that point for sure. I was HORRIBLE at algebra, and the prof who was teaching also taught at Temple University... and she would come down on her lunch break to our CC to help people if needed. I can't remember her name, but she was absolutely wonderful.


But yeah, I considered CC to be more like extended HS. With the exception of algebra, I skipped right through it....

 

[Big Cuddly Bear]

I've attended three different community colleges on my way to my bachelor's degree.

The advice I got from the very first one is that 'you get out of this school what you put into it." So if you don't hold it in high regard, you're not going to get everything you possibly can. Several people who went to the first CC with me (and only that school) have some pretty high-profile careers.

It all boils down to respect. There seems to be a shortage on your niece's front.

And how did she transfer classes so close to the end of the semester, anyway?

I did not ask, but why not? Same class, just different days and time... I assume they teach the same things. Just one happens to be a morning class and one is an evening class. The morning class meets 3 times a week, I would guess. In any case, I would guess, also, that she could pass a final by now, having been through most of the semester with good grades.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I did not ask, but why not? Same class, just different days and time... I assume they teach the same things. Just one happens to be a morning class and one is an evening class. The morning class meets 3 times a week, I would guess. In any case, I would guess, also, that she could pass a final by now, having been through most of the semester with good grades.

That PP brought up an excellent point. I had forgotten how near the end of the semester it is in US colleges.
Why not? Well, I have never seen or heard of, a college (community or otherwise) in the US which structures classes like a high school in which every one of the same class uses the same texts and has more or less the same syllabus and course work requirements.
At the college level the professors are given a brief description of what material/concepts they need to be sure is covered and then they structure the class in any way they want to get that done. Rarely do two professors teaching the same topic use the same text books. Even less often do they structure the classroom presentations the same, grade off of the same items (some use only 1-2 exams for grades, others uses essays or quizzes or class participation or some combination of all of this), etc. College classes are as uniquely structured as the professors who teach them.
If it were early in the semester, I can see allowing a student to transfer and basically "catch up" in the other class, but late in the game it really makes no sense.

 

[Pastamom]

The university I teach at would NEVER allow a student to transfer to a different section/instructor. There are specific dates by which a student can drop/add or withdraw and those dates are strictly enforced. I cannot believe that any CC or university would allow that.

If a student was allowed to switch professors because of one issue (which is what happened according to BCB) can you imagine how many students would be trying to switch at any given time????

 

[Witch Mountain]

Why not? Because this isn't high school we're talking about. Even the same professor can teach two sections of the same class and not get to cover the same material, or structure it slightly differently.

My favorite professor had two sections of a class last semester ( a psych class), and I was in one. By the end of the semester, due to the structure of the classes, (ours met 3x a week for 50 minutes, theirs 2x a week for 75 minutes), they somehow covered one more chapter than we did. She wrote two different final exams for the two different classes.

Similar deal with my Spanish prof. She graded severely on attendance because you really have to be there. I had an obligation I could not get out of and asked if I could make it up by attending the other section. I was told that our classes were working at different paces and it's be like a review for me-even though both were Honors classes.

Unless she has the exact same professor for both classes, and that instructor was able to teach the same materials throughout the semester, it probably wouldn't work. And honestly, if she gave lip to that professor in the first class, I doubt she'd agree to being in his other section. I also doubt that the school would agree to a switch so late in the semester.

Those of us expressing disbelief are currently in school as educators or students and we all know our schools wouldn't switch a student. In our schools, an advisor wouldn't say something so far fetched to a student about 'going lenient' on the night time students.

I just don't see it happening. And as the veteran of four schools (due to moving) on the way to my bachelors, I'm trying to picture your niece's scenario at each of them. Big CC, small CC, big university and I don't see it as being plausible at ANY of them.

 

[Swan4Me]

But yeah, I considered CC to be more like extended HS. With the exception of algebra, I skipped right through it....

Freshman year of college was easy for me-at a 'real" University because i went to a very college -prep oriented High school. But a good "CC" has the same classes as University-in our city because the kids with the lower GPA can not attend the Uni.


I'm curious-you say you spent 6 years"working" on a degree-did you ever get one?

 

[declansdad]

E. None of the above. She went to talk to someone about it, and they offered her a slot in a morning class, which now fits her schedule. She also found out that the professor WAS within his rights to say what he said.... HOWEVER, she was also told that professors are told that they should give night time adult students some slack when it comes to being late, as they tend to have more responsibilities than FT students.

I waited until I got a chance to ask her before posting an answer.

Personally, my thoughts have changed a little, but not all that much. I was in college over a period of 6 years working on a Bachelors and Master's degree, and I have to say, if someone quietly walked in and sat down, there is no way that would have distracted me, even during a test - at least not enough to care about.... And I know my niece. I am sure she was quiet until she felt like the professor went beyond where he needed to go.

She also now realizes that there would probably have been no issue had she told him first. But also, knowing her, she might say the same things again if it happened again. But I 100% believe her when she told me she tried to be as quiet as possible upon entering a class.

Well I taught in a college classroom for over 11 years and trust me, a person entering late, regardless of how quiet, is a distraction to everyone.

 

[declansdad]

No, but the difference is someone paid me to be on time for work. In college I paid to attend. Like I said, I attended college 6 years, and someone entering class late was no big deal, IMO. And I never heard any other student voice displeasure with anybody entering a class late - especially for adults attending at night ( which I also did for several classes ).

I do think a lot of professor types take themselves way too seriously. And, BTW, I made no mention of this, but my brother teaches at a 4 year university as a PT professor. I asked him what he would have done if a girl showed up late for class several times.... His response was, "Hey' it's her dime".

BTW, I had 2 ( I think it was 2 ) college professors who didn't require you to attend class at all. You just had to pass the tests. I remember Professor Dudley - yes that was his name - and he said "All I care about is that you read the book because all questions will be from the book. Nothing will be on the test from class unless it is also in the book.".... So, literally less than half the class actually attended classes.

The "I paid to be here:" is a lame excuse. Yes you paid but you also agreed to a contract that includes being to class on time. The professor is paid to start a class on time and should expect students to be in their seats at the start of class. If a student can't meet this requirement they should talk to the prof or take a different class. They shouldn't throw a tantrum when they are called on their rude, disrespectful behaviour.

 

[luvsJack]

OP, your disrespect for the community college is insulting. Our college is one of the best in the nation and graduates some very talented students. Some attend here because of the HUGE savings they get for taking the same liberal arts classes that are offered at the universities (and YES they are the same classes, many taught by the same instructors). Others because they want a 2 year technical degree. These 2 year program students are mostly in medical programs and they take a large number of credit hours each semester to complete these programs. Not one of these programs are "easy" or equal to high school by any stretch of the imagination.

The only way a student has ever been able to transfer classes at this point (not sure where she is but next week is finals here) would be if it was the same teacher. But, then here she wouldn't have been put out of the class for being late but she may have been failing for missing grades.

 

[debster812]

And what about all the other students who also 'paid to be there', but are expecting NOT to have their class disrupted every week by someone (the same someone) arriving 10-15 minutes late. What about their rights?

 

[honugirl]

I really hate when people put knock community colleges. I'm getting a great education right now. My literature professor is so fantastic I'm taking extra classes from her and I HATED literature, reading and anything to do with a English before her. Her stuff is on par with what her graduate school colleagues are doing at their Ivy League schools.

My favorite chemistry prof is so amazing, I'm delaying transferring to a 4 year university so I can take organic chemistry from him. His class is more than comparable to ANY 4 year university organic class and maybe even better because instead of spending his time doing research, he is able to come up with new and challenging curriculum. I took 1 class from him fall quarter, then had to switch because he isn't currently teaching the sequence I'm in but he still gives up his own free time to tutor me. In addition to that, he runs tutoring sessions many hours a week for any student of his or former student of his that is taking chemistry (and I can bring friends who haven't taken his classes). I'd like to see that happening at a 4 year Uni. I haven't seen many PhD's like he is devote time like that to their students at a 4 year university.

There are good profs and bad profs anywhere. Just because someone is at a community college doesn't mean they are less of a teacher, it just means they are looking for something different than what a 4 year university can offer them.

 

[Witch Mountain]

Honu, I agree. The CC professor in Spanish is so good that I stayed with her (and am about to take Spanish 4 in the fall) instead of going to my rather large University's foreign language department for it.

Several of the CC classes I took were very tough and good preparation for my University classes because the professors were extremely demanding. People who knocked those schools (the large CC in particular) usually were people who never attended college or didn't graduate one.

I still have a very hard time believing that she's this far into a semester and could just walk into another section of the class and the school allows it. I don't want to come out and say the OP is out and out lying, but it is unlikely that things played out as he's saying they do. Maybe it's because it wouldn't have happened in any of the schools I attended and most definitely wouldn't happen in the school I attend now.

I have a meeting with my admissions office this week and want to ask the counselor about this type of situation but fear that she will laugh her butt off at the crazy story I am telling her if I do bring it up.

 

[Goofyluver]

I really hate when people put knock community colleges.

It's pretentious, pompous and rude.

I started out at a Community College. It was the smartest thing I did. I got a quality education at less of the cost and was able to focus on getting all of my basic courses out of the way. SMARTEST. thing. I. did!

I'd recommend it to anyone.

 

[honugirl]

Honu, I agree. The CC professor in Spanish is so good that I stayed with her (and am about to take Spanish 4 in the fall) instead of going to my rather large University's foreign language department for it.

Several of the CC classes I took were very tough and good preparation for my University classes because the professors were extremely demanding. People who knocked those schools (the large CC in particular) usually were people who never attended college or didn't graduate one.

I still have a very hard time believing that she's this far into a semester and could just walk into another section of the class and the school allows it. I don't want to come out and say the OP is out and out lying, but it is unlikely that things played out as he's saying they do. Maybe it's because it wouldn't have happened in any of the schools I attended and most definitely wouldn't happen in the school I attend now.

I have a meeting with my admissions office this week and want to ask the counselor about this type of situation but fear that she will laugh her butt off at the crazy story I am telling her if I do bring it up.

At my school, there is no way this situation ever could have happend. No 2 courses are taught alike here so she'd be lost. Plus you can't just walk into another section. You actually have to drop your section and re-enroll in the new section. Complicating matters would be if you're on blackboard, moodle or similar program. You have to be legitimately enrolled in the class to have your section show up and you miss a lot if you're not on there!

My school has applied for a NASA grant to build rockets and compete with the 4 year schools next year and our engineering department is working on building an all-terrain, 4x4 electric wheelchair. I'd say we're doing some pretty awesome things for "just" a community college.

 

[RitaZ.]

I have a meeting with my admissions office this week and want to ask the counselor about this type of situation but fear that she will laugh her butt off at the crazy story I am telling her if I do bring it up.

Go ahead and ask. I'm sure the counselor could use a good laugh.