Do you feel some threads try to make you inadequate??

[dvcgirl]

Please re-read my posts - once again, I DO NOT FEEL INADEQUATE!! That's not the point. I may have just what I need for retirement, being a SAHM has nothing to do with it. I worked for a while, left my job to be at home with my children for a few years and when they both were in school full time (this year), I went back to work part time. I recently quit my job to be with them during the summer and may or may not return to work in September. Fortunately for me my husband has a job where he can work as much overtime as he wants and it was easy for him to make up for my salary.

Giving financial advice is one thing, and it's great, but bragging and, in the process, making others feel below you is another. It's like the person that has to make others feel bad in order to make themselves feel better. Believe me, this is not everyone and probably only a small percentage but I see it in the posts of people who are looking for financial advice and they get beaten up!

I always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. Just because someone is on welfare doesn't mean they are just living off the system. Perhaps they were happily married with 3 kids, are pregnant for a 4th time, husband up and leaves paying no child support. Maybe welfare is needed and is a bridge to the next phase in their life (which is what I believe it was intended to be when put in place).

Fortuantely most got my point.

Okay, I hear ya. I guess I just don't see how sharing that ones financial ducks are in a row when others are not is designed to make "the others" feel badly. There are an awful lot of discussions on here that refer to state of our financial situation as a collective nation. Lots of us read about the appalling national savings rate, the incredibly low 401K balances and we discuss those things. And yes, some of us discuss that we'd be terrified if we were in that boat. And sure, some of us even discuss that we're right on track, or even a little ahead of the game with respect to savings. There are going to be some people who read those threads and think that's bragging, but it's simply a discussion. There are 70,000+ members on this board, someone is always going to be offended by something.

And for those who read the threads where the national state of savings is discussed and take that personally, well, I don't know what to tell you. I wonder how these people read the newpapers or watch the news. Do they live in a bubble or stick their fingers in their ears so they can't hear the news? I think many of them do....because they just don't want to deal with it. And I think what happens is that some people here read those things and say..."uh oh...we're in that boat", and they take it personally, for whatever reason.

 

[branv]

Why does this same kind of post pop up every few months? I have to tell you, I rarely see anyone "rubbing anyones noses" in their wealth/savings. Half the time, when they share their means, it was because the post ASKED for people to share. They don't start a post saying "haha, look what a financial genius I am!"

I have spent alot of time over the years on boards, and am amazed at how oversensitive some people are. For instance, I was once on a wedding board when I was planning my wedding. I was talking about the plans I was making, and shared that a relative had suggested to me using fake flowers. I then said in the post that I would never use fake flowers because I don't like them. Suddenly, I'm getting responses about how I'm looking down on people who like fake flowers. Now I'm a snob against all those poor souls who can't afford real flowers for their wedding. Excuse me? I never said anything like "anyone who uses fake flowers is tacky" all I said was that I,Me, myself do not like fake flowers. I think it's the height of insecurity and self absorption when someone assumes that anothers choices, personal opinions or tastes are somehow in existence just to make them look or feel bad. I've seen on here over and over again that someone can't state their opinion simply without it somehow being an intentional slam on someone else.

If someone says, "I would never take a vacation unless I had the money in advance." That does not mean someone else is slime for doing so. It means that's their personal choice and opinion. But woo-hoo, watch a bunch of people get their knickers in a twist anyway.

It was already said on here and I'll say it again...no one can make someone feel inferior without your permission. I wish more people would take responsibility for their own feelings instead of assuming people are out there just to make them feel bad. And half the time I think when they DO get defensive it's because they know their doing something that isn't in their own best interests..if their convictions were so strong on the matter, why would they care what some stranger thinks about it?

In my case, my DH works, and I go to school full time. I don't have children, and yet I'm not working! *gasp* oh the horror! What a slacker I am, that I don't work and go to school at the same time. I know there are some on here who would think I should work as well, but it's a personal decision that works for me and my DH. I don't care what anyone else thinks about it. But if I come on here talking about how I can't pay a bill, and I really want to know how to afford to go to WDW, then I SHOULD expect someone to offer a suggestion that they think I should get a job...and not spend money I don't have. This is a bulletin board, not a private support group, if people don't want to hear any suggestion that might come their way, they shouldn't ask for opinions. If someone feels insecure reading about how others make more money or save more, then don't read posts titled, "how much savings do you have". The only way anyone can survive the society of a bulletin board is to take responsibility for their own feelings, be ready for anything (Esp. when you ask an opinion), and if you have to, move on to the next topic.

 

[Lorikr65]

And for those who read the threads where the national state of savings is discussed and take that personally, well, I don't know what to tell you. I wonder how these people read the newpapers or watch the news. Do they live in a bubble or stick their fingers in their ears so they can't hear the news? I think many of them do....because they just don't want to deal with it. And I think what happens is that some people here read those things and say..."uh oh...we're in that boat", and they take it personally, for whatever reason.

Like I've said, sometimes we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Do people plan to have auto accidents? Do they plan for their spouses to commit suicide and, therefore, wipe out any life insurance? Sometimes we are put in circumstances we can't control and have to make do with what we have. These people don't need to be kicked when they are already down.

 

[dvcgirl]

That is precisely the problem - why is there an "us" and a "them", and where does the line exist. Could there also be an education line and a kindness line?? I personally think that people who are kind to others and show emphathy, etc are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck.

And what on earth does this mean.....

"I personally think that people who are kind to others and who empathy, etc. are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck".

I know more than a few people on this board who pull in healthy six figure incomes with even larger portfolios who take lots and lots of time to answer the most basic of financial questions here. They certainly don't have to do this....they are trying to help. I mean questions like..."What's an IRA".

There are also a lot of questions regarding paying down CC debt, and sticking to a budget. Many of us around here have no CC debt and succesfully stick to a budget. And so we share our experiences in how we do that. Sometimes, examples are given to help to better illustrate how this is possible. And sometimes many of us openly admit that yes, we do make a nice income, and so it *is* easier for us to live beneath our means. Clearly, someone making 20K is going to have it a lot tougher than someone making 125K. I think it's only fair to bring up those points because otherwise the person making 20K goes away thinking...."what the heck am I doing wrong?". And the reality is, they're doing nothing wrong, they just need to figure out a way to make more money or cut expenses.

And so that statement is ridiculous....it's like you're implying that those who make a lot of money have nothing to offer society. I think Warren Buffet and Bill Gates might take issue with that.....

 

[DawnM]

Very smart young man.

Oh, and my wedding ring only cost $1,700. I wouldn't trade it for anything!

My MIL was very upset at my husband for not spending more and went on and on about how DH's sister's ring was SO much better, etc....

I commented to her at that time that I was much more concerned about my MARRIAGE than the size of the ring! I got a scoff from her.

Well, here we are 12 years later with a strong marriage, while DH's sister is getting divorced. (please don't misinterpret this as a post against all divorces, etc....it is mearly to say that I don't think that material things=the amount of love or commitment a person has.)

Dawn

Wow, I didn't realize it cost that much for that many points? I often have read about people taking their "free" vacations, but that definitely isn't free!

I think the most important thing is to really instill money management in younger people. I didn't learn this, and learning young is the most important thing. I've a family friend who has a 21 year old son, with a $300K house, a good job, and drives an old car instead of something new to save money (he is very frugal). He bought his fiancee's diamond ring on Ebay, and he did spend a couple of thousand - but some co-workers of his changed the ring in the envelope (which he'd sent to work) with a crackerjack type ring as a joke. He is known as being really thrifty, and I wish I'd learned that young.

 

[dvcgirl]

Like I've said, sometimes we have to give them the benefit of the doubt. Do people plan to have auto accidents? Do they plan for their spouses to commit suicide and, therefore, wipe out any life insurance? Sometimes we are put in circumstances we can't control and have to make do with what we have. These people don't need to be kicked when they are already down.

I understand your point. However, many of the conversations around here are of a *general* nature. The state of the nation's savings...retirement crisis....yada yada. Should we not have these conversations because there are people in serious CC debt who got that debt because of an auto accident? I mean, that's life, and sure life can kick you in the teeth.

I guess I just don't see what you are referring to here....that people are being kicked when they are down. Sure, sometimes people come in here and post that they are trying to pay down massive CC debt. And usually (almost always) they have a trip to WDW in the works or they just got back from one. In some of the responses someone (and admittedly I have said this too) will suggest that perhaps they cancel the trip, or think long and hard about another trip until that debt is gone. And there are a *whole* lot of people around here who take issue with that...."how *dare* you tell them that they shouldn't take that trip....they're making priceless memories forever and ever!!!" Find me a CFP who wouldn't give that person the exact same advice.

I've never seen anyone *tell* anyone not to take that trip, but I have seen it offered as a suggestion, and in my opinion it's a valid suggestion. Giving people the benefit of the doubt is great, however, in my experience, there are *very* few people who end up in massive CC debt due to just one catastrophic event. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but in most cases it's a combination of events. My BIL is an attorney and my Mom works for an attorney and they handle bankruptcies....both say that while major events happen, it's usually not the sole cause of the debt.

For example, a job loss leads to overusing CCs because there is no income, but then the person simply maintains the same lifestyle instead of cutting back. If you ask that person how they got in such CC debt they will say..."I lost my job and I ended up having to put all of my expenses on my CCs." They won't tell you that they didn't cut cable or the cell phone, or the trips to the mall. Same thing with medical debt that ends up on a card. It may start the snowball down the hill, but invariably there are a whole lot of other expenses that end up on those cards. Ask that person how they ended up in all of that debt and they'll tell you "We had medical expenses that weren't covered and they ended up on the card." They won't tell you that there was also a vacation and a new wardrobe on that same card.

I don't know...I think people can be too sensitive when it comes to this stuff.

 

[DawnM]

I think some people really don't understand that cable, cell, etc...ARE luxuries. Many of us grew up without any of these extra things. I sometimes take it for granted that these are "necessities" and they just plain aren't!

I am NOT speaking in particular to anyone on this board!!!! I am just making a general comment. (and reminding myself in the process.)

I have a dear friend right now whose idiot husband left her and her 4 children. She never finished college and doesn't have any "career" to fall back on. She is struggling big time.

But she got cable, high speed internet, cell service, a car she couldn't afford, etc.....because she just isn't thinking and hasn't really been taught that these are not necessities. When I tried to comment without being "preachy" she justified each and every service/purchase, etc....so I just let it go.

Dawn

 

[summerrluvv]

Very smart young man.

Oh, and my wedding ring only cost $1,700. I wouldn't trade it for anything!

My MIL was very upset at my husband for not spending more and went on and on about how DH's sister's ring was SO much better, etc....



Dawn

Only $1,700? Pfft, who needs real diamonds, get a Diamonique..a ring is just a ring. What the ring symbolizes is what is important, not the rock itself

 

[scraptoons]

LOL about the diamonds.

My engagement ring is a very nice CZ and gold. It was CHEAP. Lots of women drool over it. I just simply say thanks. It's just a ring for crying out loud.

My DH surprised me one anniversary with a REAL diamond ring. He managed to get a 1 carat ring for $500. I still wear the CZ on my other hand.

I get so tickled when I have women with HUMONGOUS diamond rings gasping over my little sparkly ones. (its the way they're cut that reflect the light BIG time).


Money isn't everything.

We SAHM can easily fall into the trap of feeling that way.

We have to press on to the prize and remember why we are SAHM's.

The kids will be grown and gone before you know it. Then you have all the time in the world to work and make money.

I don't like to waste my time reading brag posts, or chewings out of people who have debt or overlimit fees, etc.

I say that because some people posting don't know each other's situations well enough. Sometimes it takes evaluating a whole lifetime of ecosystem, experiences, self esteem issues, family makeup, etc...to figure out the best advice to give them.

I'm sure that they may have some good intentions by giving some sound advice, but its not as black and white for some as it is for others.

 

[Kramer]

My 2 cents...

I don't think anyone here posts with the intent to hurt anyone else's feelings, but I do think there are people that use this forum to brag about their financial situation.

There are a few people that will drop in on a budget thread and post one or two nuggets of guidance and then spend the other 80% of the post listing their net worth and bragging under the guise of providing helpful information.

And this gets repeated in every budget or credit card thread so that you get stuck reading the same financial succes story over and over.

P.S.

I do not include disneysteve (since someone mentioned physicians) in the above group... I think he really goes out of his way to give advice without being condescending.

 

[DVC Sadie]

I'm pretty immune to "holier art thou" posts. For the most part, people have different opportunities, different blessings and different priorities. And people have different life experiences which mold how they choose to live their lives. No one way is right. And no one way will produce universal happiness or guarantee an easy life and/or retirement.

When people speak of their priorities and how they've achieved them, I often stop and wonder if I would give up X in order to be in their position. Most times the answer is absolutely not. Probably all the time because I can't think of one instance where I've regretted the things I've done.

I choose wisely according to what I have, what I want and where I want to be in the future. Those choices may fall short of future goal attainment but I also may be hit by a car tomorrow. It's a balance between living and existing.

Thank You for putting into words what I have a problem explaining. (hope that made sense).

Why do some people need to know that others have had immense hardships to try to feel good about the decisions they have made?

I cannot tell you how many times I have had others PM me to tell me how sorry they were that our only son had died but ..... and then it goes on, and on. So if a person has achieved financial freedom by not going on vacations for years or by doing without then it is fine IF some other calamity has befalled them.

All I wish/hope for anyone is to be content in their lives with what they have and if they want more then strive/work for it (whatever it is) because only you (general you) can change it.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Actually I take it the other way. I have to admire someone who has been disciplined enough to build their savings up the way they have and still be able to find money for vacations to Disney.

We all make choices and no one can make you feel bad about those choices unless you let them. A friend of mine used to say "you can't be a doormat unless you lay down in front of someone and let them walk all over you".

I have made bad choices in life but I have learned from them and don't make them again.

I mostly agree with this post. I think many posters have great advice. I think posting is asking for a myriad of opinions - some good, some bad, and if you post a question, it's wise to be prepared for both. I also think there is a time and a place for a little constructive criticism.

I also hthink ahuge flaw is that we can't distinguish tone on a blog. That causes lots of confusion, misinterpretation, and mistakenly hurt feelings.

There are a number of Americans who are woefully irresponsible, and at some point, it IS helpful to have someone point out where you could be making better choices.
I had a good friend in college who made a series of REALLY bad choices. It was painful to see him crash. He needed to hear that he was making mistakes. Others don't, they need a boost to keep them on the right path.

I also think there are people who are hyper-sensative sometimes on certain issues, and we don't really know someone's background when we post, just th elittle info they give us. A perfectly innocent person might give a wrong impression becuse they are not strong in verbal skills. But I think most people are trying to help, even if they aren't saying it in the best way.

 

[Truth Teller]

Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).

I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

 

[kjs1976]

Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc.
You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).
I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

I agree! I agree!!!

Plus there are always a few snipes who have to chime in when you think you're just asking a basic question and they blow what you've said/asked out of portion. I had someone do that this winter when I commented on how I never knew how far it was to walk from Country Fare all the way to the main bldg. in AS-Music and how it would be hard to walk that each day on a vaction after spending all day at the parks. Someone blasted me for thinking it was too far and how lazy was I...hey I run 5Ks and am in the best shape of my life but I still thought it was far! And then someone said who in their right mind spends all day at a park???? Om, don't a lot of people, I mean we might take a 2 hr, break in the afternoon, go back, and eat dinner...but I digress.

 

[nbodyhome]

Very smart young man.

Oh, and my wedding ring only cost $1,700. I wouldn't trade it for anything!


Dawn

Only 1700? Mine is moissonite, just $300! My husband wasn't comfortable buying an American diamond due to the way they treat workers at diamond mines and such, so I looked online and found moissonite. It looks the same to me, and cost a lot less.

I'd rather spend more on memory-making events (like trips) than stuff. I am very proud to tell everyone about my $300 ring!

I don't know if I mentioned this, but it was really funny - when we got married in 2004, I bought roses for the wedding. My mom, a few days before the wedding, asked if I was sure I should spend the money on roses (I believe this was prompted by my sister, who had things to say previously about our photographer - of course, my sister spent like $1000 on her flowers!). I was like "is $30 too much for flowers? That pretty much shut her up. For $30 or $40, we had enough roses for the bouquet, and flowers for the tables (we only had about 50 people total). Sams Club is great! We got our cake and cupcakes there too.

 

[dvcgirl]

Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).

I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

So brave of you to post under your real name. Why not just PM me if you'd like to attack me. It would be so much more....what's the word I'm searching for.....oh, mature.

For the record, I have never posted what we make. Would you like to know though? I'd be more than happy to share that with you if you're sincerely interested. I have shared that we are in the top 5% of earners according to the US Census....and I surely wasn't the first to say that, or the only one to say that since then. I'm quite sure there are a whole lot of people here who make less than us based on that Census number, but also more than a few who make a lot more. And frankly, I could care less. To me it's just a number, and one I'd gladly share. I have nothing to hide, nor anything to be ashamed of. I don't brag about what we have, but I do speak of our personal quest to live beneath our means....something that seems to be a lost art in this country. I post about what we *don't* have, the things we decided not to purchase, even though in many cases we can afford those things. Others post similar thoughts...i find it really refreshing, especially in our world today.

Really, when it all comes down to it...I don't think the advice handed out does much good anyway. I don't know why any of us even bother.....misery loves company and many here would rather just commiserate with each other that they're the *normal* ones, the ones with consumer debt, still taking trips to WDW and buying things they can't afford. After all, it is the American way.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Yes, I do feel like people here like to talk about how much they make, how much they have, etc. dvcgirl is one. I am so sick of hearing about how great she is doing when it hasn't been asked for.

Yes, she can be put on the ignore list, but why should she have to be? Does anyone really need to bring up in EVERY thread their portfolio? Then, say that they have nothing to be ashamed of and it's "just discussion".

We have a man in our town who is beyond wealthy. He owns pretty much the whole town, but you would never know it to look at him (or hear him speak). He doesn't brag or boast. He doesn't find a way to bring his income into every conversation.

You can't tell me that a person can't give advice without telling their whole financial history (over and over again).


I do think that the mods do a great job here. I also think that people need to reexamine what they post, why, and how often.

If the "MAN" you know is extremely beyond wealthy and you wouldn't know it, then how could you possibly KNOW?

Why do you pick out one poster and try to degrade/debase everything they have to say, without allowing others to get a gleem of their expertise just because they don't say it the way you would/could?

Someone else also tried to do the same thing in regards to a certain other person/doctor and others would not allow any personal attacks but the person you mentioned should be fair game? I don't think so!

From here on out I will just agree with anybody who asked any type of financial question and say, hey, "You are doing great" ! How silly is that?

 

[tinker&belle]

LOL about the diamonds.

My engagement ring is a very nice CZ and gold. It was CHEAP. Lots of women drool over it. I just simply say thanks. It's just a ring for crying out loud.

My DH surprised me one anniversary with a REAL diamond ring. He managed to get a 1 carat ring for $500. I still wear the CZ on my other hand.

I get so tickled when I have women with HUMONGOUS diamond rings gasping over my little sparkly ones. (its the way they're cut that reflect the light BIG time).


Money isn't everything.

We SAHM can easily fall into the trap of feeling that way.

We have to press on to the prize and remember why we are SAHM's.

The kids will be grown and gone before you know it. Then you have all the time in the world to work and make money.

I don't like to waste my time reading brag posts, or chewings out of people who have debt or overlimit fees, etc.

I say that because some people posting don't know each other's situations well enough. Sometimes it takes evaluating a whole lifetime of ecosystem, experiences, self esteem issues, family makeup, etc...to figure out the best advice to give them.

I'm sure that they may have some good intentions by giving some sound advice, but its not as black and white for some as it is for others.

Scraptoons-
Where are you at in Texas? I know another lady from Texas who does the same thing. (And her CZ diamonds are drool-worthy! If they were real I'm sure the ring would be in the upper five digit raise.)

 

[Lorikr65]

And what on earth does this mean.....

"I personally think that people who are kind to others and who empathy, etc. are making a larger contribution in society than those that pull in a larger paycheck".

And so that statement is ridiculous....it's like you're implying that those who make a lot of money have nothing to offer society. I think Warren Buffet and Bill Gates might take issue with that.....

Did I not say my daughter's orthodontist contributes a lot to the community?? I'm saying your value as a human being and your contribution to society doesn't lie solely on how much you make as some would like to think. I really feel like I'm wasting my time arguing this particular issue with you, I'm sure most people know where I am coming from.

I am reading a book "where the heart is" by Billie Letts. It's really an eye opener on how happy one can be and have a sense of belonging and have absolutely no money but be surrounded by people who care about you and love you.

I normally just read threads and don't even look to see who is posting or responding. Well, after reading some of these now I know who these people are talking about when they say there are a few that they just need to use the ignore feature with!

But this is also the reason why I don't know who you are referring to when you mention the gentleman who helps everyone (the doctor). Whoever you are, I truly hope I didn't offend you because it surely was not my intention.

I have to agree with the people who say you can give advice and not brag - it has been done so it can be done!! It's funny because you see threads like this and the same people post the same story each time!!

 

[Truth Teller]

So brave of you to post under your real name. Why not just PM me if you'd like to attack me. It would be so much more....what's the word I'm searching for.....oh, mature.

First of all, this is my real name. I choose not to post, but instead try to learn from the boards here. There is sucha thing as a lurker you know.

If the "MAN" you know is extremely beyond wealthy and you wouldn't know it, then how could you possibly KNOW?

Why do you pick out one poster and try to degrade/debase everything they have to say, without allowing others to get a gleem of their expertise just because they don't say it the way you would/could?

The "MAN" is a well known business man. I happen to work at a place that handles his financial records, so I have seen them. However, most people in this town have no idea of his wealth. He drives an older model car, doesn't dress in designer clothes, and NEVER brings up his wealth.

I picked out one poster because that person CONSTANTLY brings up their finances, each thread they post to. Yes, it is great to offer advice, but like I said before, do we really need to hear how great they are doing all the time? It's one thing if the question is asked, it's entirely another to brag about it.

Also, I think it's great to live below ones means, that it not the issue here. The issue is that someone people like to boast/brag. How does that help anyone?