Do you feel ownership of your photographs?

[JESW]

I posted this question on the Community Board and I was wondering what other photographers felt...

We recently had a weekend get-together at the IL's for Thanksgiving. During that time I took about 60 pictures of the 12 of us. SIL has set up a family site where we can create on-line albums for family members (only, access restricted) to view. The way the site works is that anyone could also order copies and other things made with the photos.

I recently found out that SIL used many of my photos to make a calendar for her parents for Christmas. The only way I found out was that I e-mailed her requesting that she not send her parents the link to the site as I wanted to suprise them with a book I had created with the photos.

My SIL didn't do this to be *mean* but I was very upset that she used MY photos to create a personal gift for her parents. She said she believed that the photos were there for others to do what they want with them - we haven't spoken about restrictions, but I thought it would be common sense to ASK before you used someone elses things????

I take great pride in my photos and I feel that they are a part of me and my "art". Others in the family just snap a few pictures during any get-togethers...I just happened to be the only one this time. I purposely planned different shots with the book in mind - GP's with the 4 GK's, shots on the beach, shots with siblings, etc.

We are having a different understanding of the situation...I am upset that she used my work to be used as a personal gift without asking - and she sees the photos as common property. Am I wrong to be upset about this??? It won't hurt our relationship, but I do want to answer her e-mail in a way where she understands that my photographs are more than "just pictures" to me and in a way I feel violated that she used them without "permission".

Would something like this upset you?? The book was going to be such a perfect gift for my IL's who are so difficult to buy for - now they will have duplicates of the pictures and it won't be as special.

Just wondering what others think...

Jill

 

[ndelaware]

I would be aggravated also. Especially since you planned to do something special with the pictures. Next time hold back the ones you want to use.

 

[barrie]

Well, you definately own the photos. The problem is when you put them on a site that allows people to use them to put on products that they sell (like kodak photoshare) the assumption is that you are giving your permission to do that. If you don't want people to be able to use your photos you are better off putting them up on a site like phanfare that allows you to password protect them and only lets people order prints if you give them permission.

I can sympathize with you though. A photo that you have taken is a piece of art that you have created. It's not right for someone else to steal your work, and your thunder! That is why I don't like those kind of photo sharing sites.

 

[Master Mason]

I agree with Barrie, you posted your photos to a site that your SIL created. A site that has the abilty to use those photos for purchase and other things. By you posting those pictures to that site, I belive you gave implict permsion that they may be used by the community that had access. If you didn't want them to be able to use them, you should have not posted them first. Or at bare minimum told everyone your restrictions before posting them.

Yes you own the pictures the minute you took them, but if you want to be technical, do you have model releases for each person in your pictures that your using to create a book for someone else?

It is a sticky situation you get into when dealing with stuff like this.

 

[KaitlinsMom]

While I agree she gave others "permission" once posted to the site - I still think the sister should have asked before she created a gift for someone in the family. I think if she just printed photos of the pictures, that is fine - But to create a gift for someone in the same family, if it was me, I would have asked first.

Jill, you mentioned you are waiting to respond to her in an email - Just some input here - I would talk to her - Emails tend to get so misunderstood and taken in a way in which they weren't written - (just like here on the message boards sometimes! )

Karen

 

[manning]

Create your own site and password protect it.

 

[Marinerbaby]

If it was me I would be upset. I understand printing the pictures but if I was making a gift for someone in the same family I would ask first that way I would make sure not to duplicate someone else too.

As for getting upset about using pictures I understand how you feel. I love that clients are happy with their pictures but unless they purchase the shared copyright (included in some packages I offer) it really upsets me to see my portraits just being passed around especially with horrible copies. It makes me look bad.

The weirdest was walking into a company and while standing in line to pay glancing up to see a picture I had taken on their advertisements.

 

[barrie]

Wow - what did you do?

 

[SplshMtn99]

Normally, I don't think it would bother me, but since you planned them for a gift, THAT would bug me.

BUT, maybe you can make this work out after all. A calender gift will only be good for 1 yr & feels disposable & cheaper to me. But your book, will always be cherished & feels more valuable. Sooooo, just make your book the BEST you've ever done....and it will out shine her gift anyway. Heck, even throw in a slideshow on DVD with music. And one of the best shots as a nicely framed gift. Your package deal will certainly win raves to her calender.

On the other hand, my parents still have a calender hanging up from 2000 that I made. Guess it's time for a new one. lol

 

[ndelaware]

LOL, give it to them Christmas Eve!

 

[SplshMtn99]

LOL, give it to them Christmas Eve!

LOL, EXCELLENT!!!!

 

[DueyDooDah]

Actually, copyright laws normally apply to photos, even if they are posted on another's site. If you look at the articles at the links below, you will see that you may have more rights than you might imagine. The problem I think you may run into is that you posted the photos on you SIL sight, but you still may have full rights. I am not advocating you sue your SIL, but you may want to discuss your rights and her liability. Check with your local laws but copyright laws are pretty firm, as the articles discuss.


http://www.wilsonweb.com/design/photo_rights.htm
http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-general.html#what

 

[jann1033]

since i just had a similar discussion with someone i think a casual photographer just doesn't see a photo as anything but a snapshot... ie I was going to give daughter's soon to be ex inlaws a photo of our grandchild but since they are acting mean now, i don't want to while my other daughter thinks it's "just a picture" but to me it isn't, it's an extension of me.

so your sil might not have really thought it through and since she and her family were in the pictures i can understand her wanting to use them but it does mess you up . i think the poster who said "don't post anything you plan to use" said it best although that is hindsight of course and not real helpful for you now since she already used them

but in answer to your initial ?...YES

 

[JESW]

SIL posted a rather nasty e-mail back to me after I tried to explain to her how/why my photographs are important to me. She felt that she could do whatever she wished with the photos posted on the site - without having to ask permission - and doesn't find it odd that she used MY photos for a personal gift.

So, feelilng a bit B***** myself, I went in and delted the album with the photos on it to end any future problems.

Blah..............

 

[jann1033]

SIL posted a rather nasty e-mail back to me after I tried to explain to her how/why my photographs are important to me. She felt that she could do whatever she wished with the photos posted on the site - without having to ask permission - and doesn't find it odd that she used MY photos for a personal gift.

So, feelilng a bit B***** myself, I went in and delted the album with the photos on it to end any future problems.

Blah..............

well as soon as i read the first 6 words of this post i thought.."well then i'd delete them" so hehehe evidently i'm a bather too...that is what you meant isn't it

 

[rtphokie]

It's a tough thing with family. Hard to criticize, It's also tough with people who see photography just as "snapshots" and take no pride in what they shoot at all. They wont understand your frustration.

If it were me, I'd write this one off as a lesson learned and not say another word about it to the family members involved. However, from now on, upload your own photos to your own site of your choosing with sufficient security to prevent printable images from being downloaded.

 

[barrie]

SIL posted a rather nasty e-mail back to me after I tried to explain to her how/why my photographs are important to me. She felt that she could do whatever she wished with the photos posted on the site - without having to ask permission - and doesn't find it odd that she used MY photos for a personal gift.

So, feelilng a bit B***** myself, I went in and delted the album with the photos on it to end any future problems.

Blah..............

I'm sorry - what a drag. I just hate when that kind of thing happens.

 

[Groucho]

This sounds to me more like a question about common courtesy rather than a legal issue. (I'm sure no one is going to be sued over it!) It sure sounds rude to me, especially her reaction upon you being concerned about it.

 

[pxlbarrel]

This sounds to me more like a question about common courtesy rather than a legal issue. (I'm sure no one is going to be sued over it!) It sure sounds rude to me, especially her reaction upon you being concerned about it.

Well...you gotta look at it from the SIL's perspective. It's her site and the photos were put on her site with full knowledge that they could be printed out, made into calendars, t-shirts, cards, photo albums, etc. SIL wasn't told...hey, they're just there to look at...don't make anything with it. She makes up a nice calendar using photos from the site...for a Christmas gift...and then is told she shouldn't have done that since they weren't hers to use. Y'know....if I'd just spent money on what I thought was a lovely Christmas gift and was just scolded (even gently) about it, I'd get a bit defensive too...(Defensive sometimes comes off as agressive) and quite frankly, IMO, no matter how much I champion copyright on photos that you take, if you put it on a site that allows people to make anything they want with your photos, you've pretty much given up your rights to that photo to whomever has access. Because you know that people can do that on that site, you may not have said..."go ahead and use my photos" but it's implicit in the fact that you put them there in the first place.

Now, would it have helped if she had given you credit on each of the photos used? (Like each photo would say....Photo: your name) It would have appeased me...

No matter what...this really isn't worth family strife over. If you got along before this, forget about it and just don't upload photos to her site anymore. It'll make for a more stress-free Christmas. Take the higher road. Some people will see it as petty and others won't really care. The only people who really understand what you're feeling are us...the photographers who take more time to frame a photo than most people take to pick their nose. Do NOT let this ruin the holidays for ya...

 

[0bli0]

Wow - what did you do?

i have had several occasions where my photos have been used without my consent. on websites, i generally contact the person/organisation and let them know the photos were being used in violation of their respective copyrights. generally they remove the photos. i've had a few occasions where the organisations have agreed to pay a small fee for use.

there is a local tourist attraction company who used two of my photographs in their brochure, so i sent them an invoice for my standard commercial stock photo 1 time usage rates. i followed it up with a call. they were originally hesitant, but i reminded them that i have the raw files - digital equiv. of a negative, plus the entire photo shoot. they promptly sent payment.

the OP has a right to be upset. as Groucho says - it's definitely a matter of courtesy. one simple conversation would have avoided a lot of grief.