do you ever feel guilty?

[girli565]

I see a lot of people who say both "My parents didn't pay for me to go to college, I had to do that myself" and "I don't make enough money to put my kids through college". Seems like a vicious circle no?

those people aren't saying they're kids aren't going to college. They're just expressing that they won't be paying for their child's college expenses. That's not telling the kid "don't go" that's making them responsible and accountable for their own higher education.

There's also been a lot of people who have said they make enough but still choose to pay towards retirement and vacations before their kid's college. I also feel that way. My retirement is first and foremost over vacations and college funds. My son is a year old so it's not an issue now. When he turns an age where it is a relevant topic, he'll know that it's his responsibility. Not ours.

 

[crisi]

those people aren't saying they're kids aren't going to college. They're just expressing that they won't be paying for their child's college expenses. That's not telling the kid "don't go" that's making them responsible and accountable for their own higher education.

There's also been a lot of people who have said they make enough but still choose to pay towards retirement and vacations before their kid's college. I also feel that way. My retirement is first and foremost over vacations and college funds. My son is a year old so it's not an issue now. When he turns an age where it is a relevant topic, he'll know that it's his responsibility. Not ours.

I think the point is that those of us who had college paid for us started our adult lives with no college debt - therefore we got a jump on other things - perhaps saving for a down payment on a house. Or avoiding credit card debt. Or being able to pay off a car faster and move to cash purchases for cars. Then when our kids were born we could afford to save for college because we weren't paying off student loans.

And, yeah, some people do manage to get through with no debt. They work their way through, take advantage of community college, get scholarships, or get a GI Bill. But for most kids, if parents can't or won't help, they will end up with debt - and debt means that the kid will pay MORE for the education with interest than a kid who didn't have debt.

Paid for college may be a privilege, but its certainly one that I want my kids to enjoy should that be their inclination. Vacations are another privilege, and I want them to enjoy those as well - but if I had to choose just one - we'd own a tent and sleeping bags and a Minnesota parks permit to enable them to get out of college or trade school with as little debt as feasible.

And I loved my dorm experience. And my husband loved his small private top 25 liberal arts college. It is a little disappointing that my son won't take advantage of that - but he is his own person.

In our case, our kids college funds are to the point where they make money - they are in really safe funds because they are high schoolers now, but ever there there is a guarantee of a couple percent from the 529 plan. So, in that way because we saved a lot (possibly too much) early, college will be cheaper for us in terms of the cash we invested (though we may take a tax hit on not using that 529 for college if my son doesn't go)

 

[girli565]

I think the point is that those of us who had college paid for us started our adult lives with no college debt - therefore we got a jump on other things - perhaps saving for a down payment on a house. Or avoiding credit card debt. Or being able to pay off a car faster and move to cash purchases for cars. Then when our kids were born we could afford to save for college because we weren't paying off student loans.

And, yeah, some people do manage to get through with no debt. They work their way through, take advantage of community college, get scholarships, or get a GI Bill. But for most kids, if parents can't or won't help, they will end up with debt - and debt means that the kid will pay MORE for the education with interest than a kid who didn't have debt.

Paid for college may be a privilege, but its certainly one that I want my kids to enjoy should that be their inclination. Vacations are another privilege, and I want them to enjoy those as well - but if I had to choose just one - we'd own a tent and sleeping bags and a Minnesota parks permit to enable them to get out of college or trade school with as little debt as feasible.

And I loved my dorm experience. And my husband loved his small private top 25 liberal arts college. It is a little disappointing that my son won't take advantage of that - but he is his own person.

In our case, our kids college funds are to the point where they make money - they are in really safe funds because they are high schoolers now, but ever there there is a guarantee of a couple percent from the 529 plan. So, in that way because we saved a lot (possibly too much) early, college will be cheaper for us in terms of the cash we invested (though we may take a tax hit on not using that 529 for college if my son doesn't go)

Everyone's college experience is different and because of that we place value on things that may not be as valuable to someone else who didn't have that experience. Perfect example is dorm life. It's pricey, and in my opinion, unnecessary.

My child's debt once he's graduated from college is not a reason why I would feel I need to pay/contribute to his school. There's ways to get out of 4 years of university with little to no debt (I did it), if being debt free once he's done is so important to him then he can figure out how to make that happen for himself. I will support him if we can, he can live at home all he wants during school and even after he's done until he's on his feet comfortably.

But I was raised with a different viewpoint on college and who paid for it. My parents were middle class, my stepdad is a foreign-grad doctor who worked in AIDS research, and my mom was a SAHM. I wouldn't expect my one-income family to pay $40k+ for my college education. It probably would have put them into more debt than they already had.

 

[crisi]

Everyone's college experience is different and because of that we place value on things that may not be as valuable to someone else who didn't have that experience. Perfect example is dorm life. It's pricey, and in my opinion, unnecessary.

My child's debt once he's graduated from college is not a reason why I would feel I need to pay/contribute to his school. There's ways to get out of 4 years of university with little to no debt (I did it), if being debt free once he's done is so important to him then he can figure out how to make that happen for himself. I will support him if we can, he can live at home all he wants during school and even after he's done until he's on his feet comfortably.

But I was raised with a different viewpoint on college and who paid for it. My parents were middle class, my stepdad is a foreign-grad doctor who worked in AIDS research, and my mom was a SAHM. I wouldn't expect my one-income family to pay $40k+ for my college education. It probably would have put them into more debt than they already had.

My parents were middle class as well. We didn't vacation much, often there wasn't enough money in the checkbook to order a pizza, but they put three children through State schools with no debt. It did mean that my mother worked part time once all of us kids were in school. It meant that my mother didn't drive a new car - or even a slightly used car - until the youngest was through college. I wore hand me downs and second hand clothes. I don't think I was entitled to them paying for college, but it was the single best thing my parents did for me. At 20, I was a homeowner because I had no debt. By 37, in my second home, mortgage free. For my fortieth birthday, I treated my parents to a seven day cruise with our family specifically to thank them for paying for college and giving me that advantage. I couldn't have gone as far financially as quickly as I had if I had student loan debt.

And yes, every person values something different - which is why I'm accepting that my son isn't a college type kid (at least at this point in life - who knows, he may end up being a adult college student). Yes, dorm life is pricey. And it isn't necessary. The same can be said for a Disney vacation. And my dorm experience was one of the best of my life - I learned a ton, I had a good time, I gained structured independence, I made lifelong friends. I'm really glad my parents made the trade to not take vacations, to drive beaters, and to accept hand me downs so I could do that. YMMV.

 

[girli565]

My parents were middle class as well. We didn't vacation much, often there wasn't enough money in the checkbook to order a pizza, but they put three children through State schools with no debt. It did mean that my mother worked part time once all of us kids were in school. It meant that my mother didn't drive a new car - or even a slightly used car - until the youngest was through college. I wore hand me downs and second hand clothes. I don't think I was entitled to them paying for college, but it was the single best thing my parents did for me. At 20, I was a homeowner because I had no debt. By 37, in my second home, mortgage free. For my fortieth birthday, I treated my parents to a seven day cruise with our family specifically to thank them for paying for college and giving me that advantage. I couldn't have gone as far financially as quickly as I had if I had student loan debt.

And yes, every person values something different - which is why I'm accepting that my son isn't a college type kid (at least at this point in life - who knows, he may end up being a adult college student). Yes, dorm life is pricey. And it isn't necessary. The same can be said for a Disney vacation. And my dorm experience was one of the best of my life - I learned a ton, I had a good time, I gained structured independence, I made lifelong friends. I'm really glad my parents made the trade to not take vacations, to drive beaters, and to accept hand me downs so I could do that. YMMV.

I do agree with you that getting out of college debt free has afforded me some luxuries I may not have been able to afford had I left school with huge debt. But I made it a point to make sure I had my school paid for by scholarships and grants.

As an only child I was the one who had to take care of my mom when she and my stepdad divorced and he left her with nothing but a lump sum settlement. She's disabled and can't work even though she's young (51) and we were able to take her in and take over her expenses. If I was paying a bunch of school debt we probably wouldn't have been able to do that. Things worked out for us in different ways.

My husband left school with a ton of debt but works in the medical field where after 10 years of income based payments he'll have the rest of his debt forgiven. And because he knew this he didn't mind taking on the debt to get his nursing degree.

 

[crisi]

I do agree with you that getting out of college debt free has afforded me some luxuries I may not have been able to afford had I left school with huge debt. But I made it a point to make sure I had my school paid for by scholarships and grants.

As an only child I was the one who had to take care of my mom when she and my stepdad divorced and he left her with nothing but a lump sum settlement. She's disabled and can't work even though she's young (51) and we were able to take her in and take over her expenses. If I was paying a bunch of school debt we probably wouldn't have been able to do that. Things worked out for us in different ways.

My husband left school with a ton of debt but works in the medical field where after 10 years of income based payments he'll have the rest of his debt forgiven. And because he knew this he didn't mind taking on the debt to get his nursing degree.

You got scholarships and grants. I didn't for the most part (I got a free ride my final year for student leadership). I got an HONORARY national merit scholarship. And a hundred dollars here or there. But except for my final year, my total scholarship money didn't cover books.

I can't count on my kids getting grants - grants are probably out of the question at our income. And scholarships aren't terribly likely either. We started saving when they were infants, there is no way to know when they are six months old if they will be brilliant or talented enough for a scholarship. They are in eighth and ninth grade now - and my daughter is brilliant (of course), but perhaps not brilliant enough for a scholarship. My son is much more average academically (he's a talented baseball player, but probably not scholarship money talented), and wants trade school.

I don't want my kids limited to having to be teachers or nurses or do government work for loan forgiveness (I'm kind of hoping my daughter does contract law, she has the talents for it) - nor do I want to depend on that program staying intact for the twenty years it would need to. Nor do I want them to spend ten years paying down loans. My basic financial rule - you earn interest, you don't pay it unless it offers an opportunity for leverage.

Of course, should tragedy befall us, we might need to spend their college funds - but that I might get divorced or be widowed isn't a good reason for us to prioritize vacations over saving for college.

 

[JeremyGNJ]

I can't count on my kids getting grants - grants are probably out of the question at our income. And scholarships aren't terribly likely either. We started saving when they were infants, there is no way to know when they are six months old if they will be brilliant or talented enough for a scholarship. They are in eighth and ninth grade now - and my daughter is brilliant (of course), but perhaps not brilliant enough for a scholarship. My son is much more average academically (he's a talented baseball player, but probably not scholarship money talented), and wants trade school.

I don't want my kids limited to having to be teachers or nurses or do government work for loan forgiveness (I'm kind of hoping my daughter does contract law, she has the talents for it) - nor do I want to depend on that program staying intact for the twenty years it would need to. Nor do I want them to spend ten years paying down loans. My basic financial rule - you earn interest, you don't pay it unless it offers an opportunity for leverage.

Of course, should tragedy befall us, we might need to spend their college funds - but that I might get divorced or be widowed isn't a good reason for us to prioritize vacations over saving for college.

This is an excellent point. The more money you make, the less considerate it is to not pay for college for your kid, because you limit their chances to get grants etc.

If you're maxing out your 401k and IRA, and going on 1-vacatiopns a year, your child will be screwed out of financial assistance. That is selfish.

 

[aliceindisneyland]

Parents paying for college is a privledge, not a right.

I don't save for college. Most of my money goes into retirement and life insurance. We do vacations also. Life is short and I'm making memories with my kids. Sure I could take the $6000 I'm going to spend on our next vacation and put it into their college funds but it's my money. I work for it and I'll spend it how I see fit.

I work in a hospital and many of the physicians/surgeons do not fund their children's college educations. Many have said that they paid their own way through school and so should their children. And many of these went into the 400k+ student loan debt.

I agree with this. If we magically had millions, I still wouldn't pay for college for my kids. I would, however, invite them and their families to join us on fabulous vacations!

I firmly believe in the permanent character benefits of bootstrapping. I do not feel guilty in the least about taking vacations instead of putting money into a college fund. I signed up to provide "financial aid" for 18 years; I will not extend my kids' childhood by signing on for a second tour!

 

[imsayin]

Of course, should tragedy befall us, we might need to spend their college funds - but that I might get divorced or be widowed isn't a good reason for us to prioritize vacations over saving for college.

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over education.

 

[FairestOfThemAll37]

I agree with this. If we magically had millions, I still wouldn't pay for college for my kids. I would, however, invite them and their families to join us on fabulous vacations! I firmly believe in the permanent character benefits of bootstrapping. I do not feel guilty in the least about taking vacations instead of putting money into a college fund. I signed up to provide "financial aid" for 18 years; I will not extend my kids' childhood by signing on for a second tour!

I don't disagree with the idea of bootstrapping, but I don't believe in not paying in principal if you have the money. That's my opinion and not a judgement on anybody else.

As costs of education have risen and jobs have gone down it's so much harder than it used to be to work your way through school or get a job that will pay off your loans. I went back for a 2nd undergrad and masters in my mid twenties and was so sad for the kids that graduated with hefty loans and ended up in min wage jobs anyway because they didn't have experience/there weren't any jobs. The system is a little broken.

I personally have never understood the whole I had to do x to survive so should they or the it's my money I'll spend it how I see fit. I think that's because I was raised in a family that pays things forward a generation. The goal is to give your children, grandchildren, etc a better life than you had. I am very fortunate that we had the means to have college and vacations but even as adults my family helps each other out financially. There's never "on your own" completely when it comes to family.

I've had people tell me they're shocked by my work ethic and my complete lack of entitlement my entire adulthood because of the fact that I never had to worry about not being able to pay my rent, tuition, etc. I work hard to earn everything I have a stronger sense of earning my keep (so to speak) than a lot of bootstrapping folks. I attribute that to my family as well. I don't think having a college fund equates to a character flaw.

 

[aliceindisneyland]

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over education.

It might be more clear if you change "education" to "paying for my children to go to college". They're not necessarily the same thing!

 

[JeremyGNJ]

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over education.

Definitely.

I look at it like this. I assume my daughter's college will average 30k a year. I don't think I can pay for all of it, but i'm hoping to reach 50% or 75% of it.

If going on vacation every year means we can only get to 60% instead of 75%...I consider that worth it. There's definite value to family vacations that can't be quantified, and is worth owing a bit more on student loans.

However if I was at the point where I thought I could only pay for 0% - 15% of my daughters school....I would certainly make my vacations much more frugal! And by frugal I don't mean staying at a value resort instead of deluxe....I mean doing roadtrips and camping instead of Disney World.

 

[imsayin]

It might be more clear if you change "education" to "paying for my children to go to college". They're not necessarily the same thing!

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over paying for my children to go to college, either!

 

[disykat]

This thread makes me REALLY thankful for my parents! My dad worked his way through undergrad and med school. He did it at a time when it was possible to do so and graduate with minimal debt. He realized prices had changed and that wouldn't be possible for us, so he gave us financial help - while still expecting that we would work and do our part.

He worked during college and paid his way, we worked during college and paid what we could. My children work during college and are paying what they can, but it's simply not reality for their income to be able to cover the costs.

We're prioritizing college for our kids because it's important to us that they have that opportunity.

 

[crisi]

I agree with this. If we magically had millions, I still wouldn't pay for college for my kids. I would, however, invite them and their families to join us on fabulous vacations!

I firmly believe in the permanent character benefits of bootstrapping. I do not feel guilty in the least about taking vacations instead of putting money into a college fund. I signed up to provide "financial aid" for 18 years; I will not extend my kids' childhood by signing on for a second tour!

If I were to believe that my children, upon getting the gift of a college education, would not see it as a gift, but as an entitlement and not treat the gift with respect, I'd hang onto the money and use it on myself. Or set up a scholarship program to help pay for kids more worthy than my own. Fortunately, my kids to this point don't seem to have such poor characters that they won't treat their educations with respect merely because their parents paid for them. If anything, to date (and they are mere high schoolers) they've shown the opposite - despite knowing he has a college account that would allow him to screw off for six years, my son wants trade school and my daughter seems intellectually incapable of not taking advantage of an opportunity to learn more. She currently wants to major in Theatre. I'm not paying for Theatre, I'll pay for a Theatre minor.

By saving for it, I have the option of evaluating their characters at the point at which they start college. If they are worthy of the Mom and Dad scholarship, its available. If they aren't, how can I expect anyone else to give them money? And if they aren't, college probably isn't the right place for them anyway at that time.

 

[Colleen27]

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over paying for my children to go to college, either!

I don't thing it is usually that black-or-white. Like for my family, it isn't "vacation instead of paying for college". It is "vacation and paying for a reasonable college education, within certain limits". For others, it might be "vacation and pay for 50% of college" as opposed to "stay home and pay for 60%".

I don't understand the mindset of a living entirely for tomorrow, especially not when the goal is someone else's tomorrow. I want my children to become successful, happy adults but I also want to be a happy, successful adult, not someone living a life of austerity to give my children a more comfortable adulthood.

 

[aliceindisneyland]

I don't understand the mentality of prioritizing vacations over paying for my children to go to college, either!

 

[crisi]

I don't thing it is usually that black-or-white. Like for my family, it isn't "vacation instead of paying for college". It is "vacation and paying for a reasonable college education, within certain limits". For others, it might be "vacation and pay for 50% of college" as opposed to "stay home and pay for 60%".

I don't understand the mindset of a living entirely for tomorrow, especially not when the goal is someone else's tomorrow. I want my children to become successful, happy adults but I also want to be a happy, successful adult, not someone living a life of austerity to give my children a more comfortable adulthood.

Balance is important. But most of my girlfriends have never taken their families to Disney and they aren't living lives of austerity. I see more extreme examples of day to day austerity here on this board to get to Disney than I've ever heard described by my middle class friends who save for college.

To me, the issue with student loans is that when my husband had them and couldn't find a job right out of college, he had to live a life of austerity - and severe austerity. And he still ended up in bankruptcy because you can't pay loans and afford rent on a part time barista's income. I don't want to see my children living a life of austerity later because I don't give up what are some frankly luxuries (for me, its a redone kitchen, a nicer car, and trips).

I started living for someone else's tomorrow the moment we had kids.

 

[melissalee]

Memories are priceless! She will love those memories while studying in college.

 

[GFShelley]

I'm a hospice nurse, I know how much good memories mean. I know life can change for the worst in a split second. So I'm going to try really, really hard not to feel guilty.

Exactly