Do people hold back kids in your town?

[Bichon Barb]

Ok you pretty much you said what I've been strugging to say in 9 posts in like what 3 lines?

Yeah, but I bet no one will be pissed at you.

I don't care. I'm too hyped up for the SU/ND game that's on right now. I have to watch other peoples' kids play college b'ball, because I've ruined my kids' chances at playing Big East basketball.

 

[4greatboys]

Just a thought--if everyone followed their district's rules and put their children in k-garten when they were supposed to, instead of trying to give their children an advantage or head start or whatever you want to call it, we wouldn't have these age and maturity discrepancies. (Excluding kids with physical and psychological issues of course.)

Yeah, but I bet no one will be pissed at you.

I don't care. I'm too hyped up for the SU/ND game that's on right now. I have to watch other peoples' kids play college b'ball, because I've ruined my kids' chances at playing Big East basketball.

LOL well Im not pissed but I disagree. Just because kids are the same age doesnt mean they are at the same maturity level.
My best friend and I have 5 yr olds that are 6 weeks apart. They are not at the same maturity level. I feel my son is a little behind hers in that area. He is coming into his own it just seems to have taken him a little longer to get there.

 

[barkley]

i stand corrected. i just wed to the fed site and was surprised that some states have 8 as an acceptable age to start school i thought it was interesting though-the ones who use 7 (and the one lone 8) consistently had the youngest age at which a kid could no longer be forced to stay in school (around 16 vs. 18 in the states where the minimum age was 5). seems kind of like they're saying "start um late and if they don't like it well let them leave in 8 years ).

the moving from state to state can be a challenge. we had a family in our school whose daughter met the california standards no problem (october birthday and december cut-off). dad and mom had to move across the country due to a job transfer and found out the new state's cut-off was september 1st. they ended up selling, dad moves with older kids across country and getting settled while mom and dd stay in an apartment so the kid can attend 2 weeks of kindergarted in california and meet the new state's wiaver criteria (age is waived if the child has been attendance in another states comparable grade for at least 10 school days).

i still think it's o.k for a 6 year old to go to kindergarten (7 upon entry or within a couple of months of i would question). as for the holding them back i gotta think it's initiated more on the parents part-it seems to be much harder for a school to mandate it. for a long time here a kid had to be failing every subject-that's how we ended up a poor performing state with kids in highschool who could'nt read.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

Just a thought--if everyone followed their district's rules and put their children in k-garten when they were supposed to, instead of trying to give their children an advantage or head start or whatever you want to call it, we wouldn't have these age and maturity discrepancies. (Excluding kids with physical and psychological issues of course.)

That's a big part of the issue--parents are second guessing how their children compare to the other kids, not whether or not their children are ready for Kindergarten (and all the other grades after K, of course) based on some concrete and objective milestones.

With my 3rd child I was pretty sure I was going to hold him--9/28 birthday with a 12/31 cut-off (that cut-off has since been changed). I sent him to K where he'd been going to preschool and was going to repeat K at our local public school. Turns out he was reading, doing advanced math problems (for a 5yo) and was ready for 1st grade, so we changed our mind and sent him straight to 1st grade. We were basing it on him and his readiness, plain and simple. For him it was a good decision--he's now 12yo in 7th grade, is in mostly honors classes and algebra. He's being challenged within his grade, albeit with high level classes. Worked out well. We were prepared to hold him an extra year in K if that was in his best interests, though.

 

[RF536]

I have a somewhat unique view point for this, I have a Sept 28th b-day so I started school at age 4. While I was able to handle the work, an A-B average all through school, I did not have the maturity to sit and do it. I was also one of the youngest kids in my class.

I now have DS3 who has a Nov. 14th b-day, which is before the Dec. 1 cut-off date for Michigan schools. I will be one of those parents that will be holding their kids back. I have several reasons for this and none of them have to do with giving him and advantage over other kids on sports or academically. A big part of this decision, has to do with the fact our school has an all day 5 day a week Kindergarten program, and I do not feel that at age 4 he will be ready to go to school for 6 hours a day 5 days a week. I also know how I felt when I struggled to do the work for the first several years of school, simply because I didn't want to sit a do it. Another influence is that he was 5 weeks early, so if he had been born on time, he would not have made the cut-off.

One more thing to consider, is that most of the later cut-off dates were probably set, when Kindergarten was a 1/2 day program, that mainly focused on sociallization and learning you letters and numbers. Today, most Kindergartens expect the kids to already know their numbers and letters. So the parents that are holding thier kids back who are close to the cut-off date, may be trying to compensate for this fact.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I have a somewhat unique view point for this, I have a Sept 28th b-day so I started school at age 4. While I was able to handle the work, an A-B average all through school, I did not have the maturity to sit and do it. I was also one of the youngest kids in my class.

In your case, part of it could have been maturity and part just you. My son has the same birthday as you and has done very well not being held back (good attention span, very focused, etc). His brother has a 9/25 birthday and seemed more mature as a 4-5yo and did well in K, but by 1st grade started to struggle a little. Different kid for sure!

I don't blame you for holding your son back and I'd do the same thing in your position.

 

[disykat]

Many people still keep missing this point:

Most of the people here that have issues with holding back for an age advantage are talking about holding kids back that will turn 7 during Kindergarten and 19 while they are still in high school. We're not talking about people who are close to the cutoff.

I'll say it one more time - there's a huge difference between holding children back that are developmentally not ready for some reason and holding them back so they will be at the top of their class.

In my experience as an educator it seems to me that those that are held back for academic/developmental reasons usually continue to have isssues regardless. Those that are held back because the parents have heard it's good to give the age advantage often get bored without extra programming.

 

[Pinnie]

Ah, a subject near and dear to my heart. I am a YOUNG 5s K teacher for our public school district. I teach in a state funded 5 day a week, 3 hour a day program for students whose parents feel they are just not "ready" for our Kindergarten curriculum. Our program serves 148 students with 4 full time teachers and 4 para-pros. We also have TSLI's. OT/PT (per IEP) and TC support.

MI has a cut off date of Dec 1, so our students come to us with birthdays Aug - Dec. 1. IF we see a child with an earlier birthday enroll, we urge them to have the child tested at our ECP school. It has been my experience in most (NOT ALL) cases, that students with spring birthdays usually have other "issues" that are better addressed in an ECP setting.

Our district has a "literacy based" kindergarten in line with MI and NCLB standards. Playtime is very limited. Yesterday, I stopped by a K classroom and they were already taking 12 sentence "dictation". They also have to write independantly in their journals, be able to write a sentence using a capitol letter and by the end of this semester, use correct punctuation at the end of a sentence. They already know the concepts of print.

Someone mentioned in an earlier post about Jr high teachers. Let me tell you that I have had many, many jr and sr high school teachers' children in my classroom! Many did not want to have their YOUNG 9th grade daughter in marching band, choir, plays, etc with 18 yr old BOYS. They also know the pressures these kids are under and feel that maturity plays a big part in making choices.

I have a poster outside my classroom door:
Childhood should be a journey, not a race.

pinnie

 

[MELSMICE]

I absolutely cannot fathom holding them back JUST for sports.

A good friend of ours did this with his DD mainly for this reason. Funny thing is that it came back to bite him in the butt - this DD of his hates all sports - she wants to dance or do gymnatics - but he won't hear of it!

 

[darrose]

Pinnie, I am not sure I understand what your are saying. Does your school district always recomend spring children to be held back? Does the state give your school district more grant money for the held back children in that ECP program? And could it be that the kindergarten is doing first grade work because really most children in that class should be in first grade age wise? (ie. is it easier to teach the older child things because really they should be in the grade above so doing the grade below is easy?)

Also, does the skills children learn in school...are they age based or based on first grade, 2nd grade?
For example, say tieing one shoes is it a skill that teachers want to have in place by the end of first grade. Is it the case that its easier to teach the 7 year old to ties his shoe, but that skill (on average) really should have been in place a year agofor the average child. Where as the six year old takes more of your teaching time to learn this skill, but its an age apporiate skill?

 

[taximomfor4]

for those concerned about the age a kid will be in high school (and that they will be interacting with older kids who started later or were held back). what is your position on how grades should be broken up?

in california for years it was k-6, 7-9, 10-12. the schools lobbied to change it so that middle schools were available (5th or 6th-8th, and changing high schools to 9-12) but alot of parents did'nt support it for various reasons so k-6 is still the most common set-up.

my kids attend a private school that houses k-2 in one class and 3-8 in another-it's a very SMALL school with less than 30 in total attendance and a highly supervised (for appropriate behaviour and social interaction) situation. i am comfortable with the way it is handled in this cirucmstance. i would not be comfortable though, with sending my kids to a public school and having them interact at the elementary level with kids up to 8 years older. in high school i would hope (and pray) that they have the maturity to follow thier own instincts and not be led astray by a student a few years older.

that said-are you less comfortable with the concept of a 15 year old encountering an 18 or 19 year old in the odd campus social setting (i don't recall with the exception of choir or other electives much blending of different high school grades in the same classes) or your 5 year old interacting with regularity (recess, lunch, afterschool programs) with 11 and 12 year olds?

I survived K-6 elementary school. My district still does it that way, here : K-6, 7-9, 10-12. Most of the other districts are K-5, 6-8, 9-12. When I was in elementary, and at the district my kids are in, the recess times are staggered, as are lunch times. There is no interaction, really, between the 5 yr olds and the 12 yr olds. Well, the bus ride if they ride buses to school. But most of the 12yr olds are the bus guards, and help the littler kids. We did have a problem at the bus stop, with some behaviorally challenged 5th graders but several calls to the school finally made the school take action. Those kids stand on one side of the street, my kids on the other. Not my favorite resolution since it directly ostracized my kids, but better than the misbehaving that WAS happening around my kids.

Anyway, my point (oops, sorry, got carried away!) is that in the 12 and under crowd, the schools really have contact between age groups pretty limited. They've been dealing with those age spans for a long time and figured it out long ago I think.!

Beth

 

[taximomfor4]

AGain, this isn't about academics. My son does fine in school, too. He is in all advanced classes, blah, blah, blah, this is about the MATURITY, physical and emotional, of having a 13 year old sitting next to a 15 year old. Would you want your DD who is barely 14 dating a kid, in her grade, that can DRIVE (which is what is going to happen in DS's class)?

DD 12 is getting along fine, each year better and better, socially. She is in the 8th grade, in a district with a Sept cutoff. So she is essentially 2 yrs younger than most kids in her grade, yet is thriving. She is not the easiest kid to get along with ... really misses nonverbal cues a lot (always has). But she had that problem before she was grade-advanced. She is not allowed to date, but can talk with boys on the phone or IM. She knows that in 2 years, her friends will be able to drive and she will not. Will that cause problems? Doubt it. I could not drive until I was out of high school (parental decision) and I was fine. Didn't even get made fun of. She'll be fine too.

About physical maturity (not referring to any specific post, btw) ... puberty doesn't occur at a magic "age"...you should see my 12 yr old niece. She looks 22. Really. Several of dd's friends, at 14, are not looking any more developed than dd12. I was a late bloomer, my sister early. So I don't think physical maturity will be as big a deal, really, unless it is an extreme difference.

I am just rambling. Need to go bow to the coffee grounds!

Beth

 

[taximomfor4]

My DD11 will graduate 8th grade middle school at the age of 12 next year.
I know she will be with much older kids in high school next year but that is something we will just have to face. I'm sure she'll be more than fine.

See your dd is in the exact situation my dd was last year. If you ever want to chat off this board about the unique issues they come upon, pm me!

 

[DisneyMim]

Interesting post. My son's birthday is late August and the cut off in our town is September 1st. We sent him to school. He is one of the youngest in his grade. He is now in his last year of HS and has never had a problem. I also can't imagine holding a child back because of sports. Lots of people told us to do just that because our son wouldn't be able to play sports with his grade until he entered HS. This never bothered him. My son and both my husband and I meet some wonderful people. And guess what happened? When my son entered HS is was put on varsity as a freshman. We know another boy who was born in the spring of the same year as my son and his parents held him out a year (and spoke very loudly to us at the time about how he would be so much better at sports, etc), well, you guessed it, he wasn't good at sports as a young boy and he still isn't. My point is if you think your child is ready do what YOU think is right, not what other people tell you is right. My son has always been very mature. There are kids in his grade that are almost 2 years older than he is and some of them are very immature. My husband has been teaching HS in a very well known city school for over 30 years and he has always said that the smartest kids he every had were some of the youngest in the grade. Only YOU know what is right.

 

[golfgal]

DD 12 is getting along fine, each year better and better, socially. She is in the 8th grade, in a district with a Sept cutoff. So she is essentially 2 yrs younger than most kids in her grade, yet is thriving. She is not the easiest kid to get along with ... really misses nonverbal cues a lot (always has). But she had that problem before she was grade-advanced. She is not allowed to date, but can talk with boys on the phone or IM. She knows that in 2 years, her friends will be able to drive and she will not. Will that cause problems? Doubt it. I could not drive until I was out of high school (parental decision) and I was fine. Didn't even get made fun of. She'll be fine too.

About physical maturity (not referring to any specific post, btw) ... puberty doesn't occur at a magic "age"...you should see my 12 yr old niece. She looks 22. Really. Several of dd's friends, at 14, are not looking any more developed than dd12. I was a late bloomer, my sister early. So I don't think physical maturity will be as big a deal, really, unless it is an extreme difference.

I am just rambling. Need to go bow to the coffee grounds!

Beth

I am glad things are going ok for your DD but first she is a girl and girls do much better on average in this situation, second, she is the exception to the rule. Next year when she is in high school at age 12/13 she will be in classes with 18 and 19 year olds. I don't thing people understand what a HUGE difference this is. There is a HUGE difference between a 16 year old and an 18 year old. Hopefully your DD won't be bothered by not being able to go out with friends or not being able to date when all her friends are but usually that isn't the case. When she is 14 and a sophomore and all her friends are driving, dating and she is sitting home all weekend with nothing to do, will it still be ok with her? Each year is going to get a little harder, at least for most kids.

 

[MomofKatie]

We live in a suburb of Charlotte, NC, and the "hold 'em back" mentality seems to be the norm here. DD's birthday is in early September (cutoff here is Oct 15th), and she has been the youngest in her class each year. She is in 2nd grade, and started Kindergarten when she was 4. There are a few kids in her class who are already 9- but I know 1 child is repeating 2nd grade. Most of the kids in her class are already 8 or turning 8 within the next few months.

When DD was in preschool, we were asked over and over by other parents if we were going to hold her out of Kindergarten for another year. DD is small for her age- that's the only reason she would ever be held back. Socially, academically, and in every other way, she was SO ready for school. I think out of 10 kids in her preschool class, she was one of the few with birthdays after March who went ahead to Kindergarten. I don't regret our decision for one minute. DD is still the youngest, and smallest, in her class, but she does beautifully well, both academically and socially.

She does hate being so small, but that isn't due to her age. I am only 5 ft tall, and DH is the "freakishly tall" one in his family- and he is 5'9"!! I tell her, Sorry, kid- you are in the shallow end of the gene pool!

 

[Deb in IA]

Why have a "cut-off date" at all, if no one is going to follow it?

 

[Bichon Barb]

Why have a "cut-off date" at all, if no one is going to follow it?

Exactly. If immaturity is such a problem, why not move up the cut off date?

I also wonder if some of the kids that "old" for their grade have the problem with boredom in the classroom?

 

[RF536]

I know MI is considering moving the cut-off date from Dec. 1 to Sept. 1. Basically the Dec. 1 cut-off was set most K programs were 1/2 days and focused more on socialization, learning your letters and numbers. With more and more K programs going to full day and being more focused on learning to read, it does make since to make the cut-off date earlier.

 

[Aidensmom]

Before reading this thread, I didn't even know people held their kids back.

My son's birthday is just prior to the cutoff date. I enrolled him in Pre-K this year, as he had just turned 4, and will be enrolling him in kindergarten next year.

When I was a child, my birthday was a few months past the cutoff date, and I was tested by the school system to see if I could enter kindergarten at age 4 at my parent's request. I did start at 4, and at the end of the year, my parents had the option to let me repeat kindergarten if they thought I should, or to progress on to first grade. Is this no longer an option anywhere? I would think this would be better than holding them back because you would have really seen how ready they were. (BTW, my parents did not choose to have me repeat kindergarten.)