Disney World is BROKEN!

[tlady]

I agree with you. And the addition of FP+ is the final insult and disaster. I honestly see nothing positive about it for vets like us who used the legacy FP system a lot. Now, for the privilege of paying higher ticket prices, we'll be getting only 3 FPs per day, long lines even in the FP lanes, and online system that sometimes works and lots of times doesn't, higher prices in the resorts . . . I could go on and on and on.
At Universal, their "front of the line" program is superb. We never waited more than 5-10 minutes to get on the top rides. We stayed in one of their hotels, knowing this would cost a bit more, but the time saved in the parks was WELL worth it.
What really irks me about Disney's new FP system is that the old system worked well and was fair to everyone. And those of us who made good use of the old system and were willing to get up early and be there for rope drop, are now being penalized so that those who refused to do their homework can get as many FP's as us???
There was no compelling need to change things to the extent that they have.
Now, they've got a very limiting FP system, angry and frustrated customers and, for what?
Is Disney so arrogant as to think that long-term, loyal customers will keep coming back for this experience, paying ever higher prices and getting less with each visit?
As much as I love Disney, I think most of our future vacations will be spent exclusively at Universal. You truly cannot beat their "front of the line" program. Disney's new FP truly pales in comparison. Also, Universal has a lot more thrill rides, so no single ride is ever overwhelmed, except for Harry Potter where you cannot utilize "front of the line".

 

[larryz]

The truth is that it is vacation, a time to relax and enjoy. The idea that I have to devote months of planning to get my money's worth is a total fail. Long gone are the days of deciding where you want to eat on the day you want to eat, how do I know which park I'll be in 6 months out? This used to be a simple destination that has simply not grown at the same pace as the size of the crowds.

Really? Would you just drive down to Miami and hop onto the first cruise ship headed out?

Drive to the Grand Canyon and hope you can find a place to stay for the night?

Fly to Tokyo and look for lodging at the tourist information booth?

That said, you can still do WDW on a day-to-day basis. Go to the concierge desk and ask for reservations in a table service venue, and they'll find you one. It may not be Victoria and Albert's, but it'll be a pretty nice place, and the food will be good. Sadly, not as good as it once was, but perfectly edible...

 

[larryz]

Oh trust me... I know DVC is expensive...but it's already paid for...so when I get back from our vacation I don't have a hotel bill. That's what I mean by "free".

If you paid $22000 for your points and about $1100 per year maintenance, your average cost over the 45 year life of the contract is just over $1580 per year.

 

[tlady]

I would have loved to see them spend the FP+ budget to bring more attractions to the parks, starting with Epcot, Studios and AK to relieve the strain on MK -- and spread the crowds in those three parks beyond two or three attractions per park. To me that says, thank you for visiting us at WDW, in order to make sure you enjoy your time with us and come back again, we are working hard to provide you with new experiences to enjoy with your hard earned vacation time and dollars, come back and see us again next year when X will be ready for your enjoyment also.

For now I think WDW is trading on its past and what they see as an endless supply of first time visitors they feel they can risk turning and burning. Eventually I think it will be their undoing.

With the way corporate America operates today I would not be at all surprised to see the company unload WDW if it gets to a tipping point. I firmly believe the choice to invest in this Next Gen rather than truly expanding their offerings to expanding attendance and compound it by insisting their guests prefer it this way leaves the resort very vulnerable to a swift shift in attendance patterns or hiccup in the economy. It is such a massive operation I would not be even a little surprised to see it spun off from the mother ship. I would be surprised if they surrendered DLR as easily.

Disney is more than willing to invest in more resort rooms, but seems very reluctant to build new thrill rides in the parks. If they keep going down this road, the parks will be ever more crowded. You are already seeing this play out and it's been made FAR, FAR worse with the idiotic new FP system.

The $64,000 question is - For how long will people put up with this? Apparently there are quite a few who think Disney can do no wrong. They seem willing to pay astronomical prices for an experience that is ever diminishing in its returns. But, there also seems to be a quickly growing chorus of people who are now saying "Never again" or at least "Not again until some changes are made".

I think the concept behind MDE is a good one, but the portion of it dealing with FP is truly horrible and proving unworkable in the extreme. We keep hearing that Disney is still "testing" it and to be patient. Tough words to swallow when your vacation can be ruined by what Disney has done. It's way past time for Disney to acknowledge that the FP limitations are not working and are, in fact, creating long lines at nearly every ride in every park. They need to immediately increase the number of FP+s per day and to eliminate the tiering concept. I am also ok with them offering more FP+s to resort guests. The cost of staying in the Disney resorts are astronomical, so it makes sense for Disney to further reward those who opt for a Disney resort.

It is true that popular vacation destinations tend to be crowded. But what is now taking place at WDW is absurd and truly making the Disney experience a very unpleasant one.

I actually wrote to Disney about my concerns. I hope that all who agree with me will do so too.

I am heading to WDW in the near future. If my trip ends up being as miserable as some have described here, it will be my last visit to WDW until major changes are made to the FP system. Universal is a very good alternative and my experiences there have always been positive, because their "Front of the Line" program is far superior to Disney's new FP system.

 

[Iowajes]

As much as I love Disney, I think most of our future vacations will be spent exclusively at Universal. You truly cannot beat their "front of the line" program. Disney's new FP truly pales in comparison. Also, Universal has a lot more thrill rides, so no single ride is ever overwhelmed, except for Harry Potter where you cannot utilize "front of the line".

Disney has a VIP program you can pay for. It's expensive- it has to be or they couldn't manage demand.

And I disagree with your assertion that legacy FP was fair to everyone. The "winners" of legacy FP get less with FP+ but now everyone is equal.

 

[undertheradar]

Really? Would you just drive down to Miami and hop onto the first cruise ship headed out?

Drive to the Grand Canyon and hope you can find a place to stay for the night?

Fly to Tokyo and look for lodging at the tourist information booth?

That said, you can still do WDW on a day-to-day basis. Go to the concierge desk and ask for reservations in a table service venue, and they'll find you one. It may not be Victoria and Albert's, but it'll be a pretty nice place, and the food will be good. Sadly, not as good as it once was, but perfectly edible...

Yes, I don't want to have to do months of research to ENJOY my vacation.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney has a VIP program you can pay for. It's expensive- it has to be or they couldn't manage demand.

And I disagree with your assertion that legacy FP was fair to everyone. The "winners" of legacy FP get less with FP+ but now everyone is equal.

Everyone absolutely had equal opportunity under legacy FP.

Try telling offsite guests right now that FP+ is equal for everyone.

 

[tlady]

Disney has a VIP program you can pay for. It's expensive- it has to be or they couldn't manage demand.

And I disagree with your assertion that legacy FP was fair to everyone. The "winners" of legacy FP get less with FP+ but now everyone is equal.

What about the old FP system was unfair? Everyone had exactly the same options in terms of using it or not. Everyone had the option to get to the parks early and thereby maximize their use of FPs.

So what, exactly, was unfair about the old FP system that is not directly related to one's own choices about when to get to the parks and how often to use FP? What was there about the system itself that was unfair?

 

[tlady]

Everyone absolutely had equal opportunity under legacy FP.

Try telling offsite guests right now that FP+ is equal for everyone.

You are 100% correct in that the old sysem WAS fair to everyone. Everyone could choose to use it or not. Everyone could choose to get to the park at rope drop or not. Each of those individual choices had consequences, just as all life choices do.

 

[nicki.momof3]

While I respect your opinion I have to disagree. We go yearly (sometimes twice) and I can honestly say we have a better time every year. We only travel Easter and Christmas weeks so we see lots of crowds.

The more we travel the more we feel we can slow down and enjoy the magic of it all without rushing from here to there.

We just returned from 10 days at Christmas and it was great. LOVED FP+.

My question is - if your vacation is so bad why in the world do you continue to return? Why spend your money someplace so insane?

Seems like a nice quite beach may be more in order.

 

[Pooksie]

I agree with you. And the addition of FP+ is the final insult and disaster. I honestly see nothing positive about it for vets like us who used the legacy FP system a lot. Now, for the privilege of paying higher ticket prices, we'll be getting only 3 FPs per day, long lines even in the FP lanes, and online system that sometimes works and lots of times doesn't, higher prices in the resorts . . . I could go on and on and on.
At Universal, their "front of the line" program is superb. We never waited more than 5-10 minutes to get on the top rides. We stayed in one of their hotels, knowing this would cost a bit more, but the time saved in the parks was WELL worth it.
What really irks me about Disney's new FP system is that the old system worked well and was fair to everyone. And those of us who made good use of the old system and were willing to get up early and be there for rope drop, are now being penalized so that those who refused to do their homework can get as many FP's as us???
There was no compelling need to change things to the extent that they have.
Now, they've got a very limiting FP system, angry and frustrated customers and, for what?
Is Disney so arrogant as to think that long-term, loyal customers will keep coming back for this experience, paying ever higher prices and getting less with each visit?
As much as I love Disney, I think most of our future vacations will be spent exclusively at Universal. You truly cannot beat their "front of the line" program. Disney's new FP truly pales in comparison. Also, Universal has a lot more thrill rides, so no single ride is ever overwhelmed, except for Harry Potter where you cannot utilize "front of the line".

The whole "I'm going to Universal" mantra cracks me up...

I think people have the right to complain about FP+, as others have the right to enjoy WDW and FP+.

But the cries of "I'm going to Universal, it's so great" are a bit naive.
If you believe that everyone and their brother and their relatives and their friends are going to abandon Disney for Universal, then what happens when Universal is swamped with huge Disney like crowds?

The standby lines will become ridiculously long there as well. For those who say "I'll get the express pass" well guess what, so will everyone else... Their is no FP- at Universal, and the result is that both the standby lines and the express pass lines will be very long. If you think that Universal will regulate how many express passes are sold, Lol. No, Lol. They are a corporation that thrives on profit, and they will look at long lines as a sign of success. They will let their park get just as crowded as the Disney does with the MK, and express pass sales are more money in their coffers.

The fun will be reading the Universal boards and seeing the outrage the regulars exhibit concerning the now ridiculously long lines, both standby and express pass, if this happens. They will be hating on the "Disney" people who came to "their" park and ruined it. Lol.

Disney had record attendance at the Florida parks the past few years, and even with FP+ I expect that they, and Universal, will report record attendance and profits in 2014. Unless both parks start limiting daily attendance a la Discovery Cove, in a few years both Disney and Universal will be a mess.

 

[gdrj]

I agree with you. And the addition of FP+ is the final insult and disaster. I honestly see nothing positive about it for vets like us who used the legacy FP system a lot. Now, for the privilege of paying higher ticket prices, we'll be getting only 3 FPs per day, long lines even in the FP lanes, and online system that sometimes works and lots of times doesn't, higher prices in the resorts . . . I could go on and on and on.
At Universal, their "front of the line" program is superb. We never waited more than 5-10 minutes to get on the top rides. We stayed in one of their hotels, knowing this would cost a bit more, but the time saved in the parks was WELL worth it.
What really irks me about Disney's new FP system is that the old system worked well and was fair to everyone. And those of us who made good use of the old system and were willing to get up early and be there for rope drop, are now being penalized so that those who refused to do their homework can get as many FP's as us??? I could make the argument, why should I have to get up early and be at rope drop to get a fast pass? I am being punished for taking advantage of the other things at Disney.
There was no compelling need to change things to the extent that they have.
Now, they've got a very limiting FP system, angry and frustrated customers and, for what?You are sure there was no need to change?
Is Disney so arrogant as to think that long-term, loyal customers will keep coming back for this experience, paying ever higher prices and getting less with each visit?I think it could be considered arrogant that everyone vacations the same way and want to be at rope drop
As much as I love Disney, I think most of our future vacations will be spent exclusively at Universal. You truly cannot beat their "front of the line" program. Disney's new FP truly pales in comparison. Also, Universal has a lot more thrill rides, so no single ride is ever overwhelmed, except for Harry Potter where you cannot utilize "front of the line"You can't use for Harry Potter OMG, Universal doesn't care about me, with how much tickets are they are being so arrogant just kidding.

I will continue to say everyone vacations differently, FP+ will probably be tweaked and changed as they receive feedback good and bad. If its the end of the world so be it (I don't think it is) they had a good run

While FP+ is working through its bumps and bruises it is your right not to vacation there or give them your money. I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

 

[mom2rtk]

I will continue to say everyone vacations differently, FP+ will probably be tweaked and changed as they receive feedback good and bad. If its the end of the world so be it (I don't think it is) they had a good run

While FP+ is working through its bumps and bruises it is your right not to vacation there or give them your money. I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

It's about equality of opportunity. Not equality of outcome. Everyone under legacy FP started each and every day with the exact same opportunity available to them.

 

[Mad Hattered]

I can't help but think that if Walt was still around he would have a thing or two to say to the Corporate slugs running this show now...

 

[Iowajes]

Everyone absolutely had equal opportunity under legacy FP.

Try telling offsite guests right now that FP+ is equal for everyone.

Legacy wasn't equal for everyone. Those who got greatest use tended to utilize park runners from their group. How does a single parent do that? What about people with disabilities that prevent them from getting to rope drop?

No system will be fair to everyone. Disney is only worried about pleasing the masses. Not the individual.

 

[tlady]

The biggest difference between WDW and Universal is that Universal has not overbuilt it's resort capacity at the expense of its parks. Disney most definitely has and you are seeing the results now with long, long lines for nearly every ride and overcrowded conditions in the parks. Disney simply has not kept up in terms of building sufficient rides/attractions to coincide with their ever-increasing resort guest capacity.

Until Disney changes this dynamic, the overcrowded conditions will continue. The new FP has made the situation 10x worse so that, now, it's nearly impossible for park guests to ignore or explain away.

Universal has only 3 resorts and 1 new one that is about to be opened. So, their "Front of the Line" privileges are quite workable. Anyone else has to pay a hefty fee to buy the FOL privileges. Again, it's a question of room capacity vs. capacity in their 2 parks. They have managed it quite well.

Disney, on the other hand, has focused WAY too much on increasing room capacity without doing much to increase the number of top line attractions at each of their parks. That is why the crowding is worsening and the ride wait-times are horrendous.

So, yes, the park experience at Universal will continue to be less crowded. Why? Because their room capacity is far less than Disney's (they also have many more top line rides in comparison to Disney), meaning far fewer park guests will be getting FOL privileges. And because I highly doubt those who may abandon Disney in favor of Universal (those not staying in a Universal hotel) will all be spending the beaucoup extra $$ to buy FOL privileges each day.

 

[tlady]

I can't help but think that if Walt was still around he would have a thing or two to say to the Corporate slugs running this show now...

I think he's probably turned over in his grave so many times that he's nauseous. It's sad to see what is happening at WDW now.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I'm confused....How is it the resorts overcrowding the parks?...The resort customers only make up 50% of park customers on average.

 

[Mad Hattered]

The whole "I'm going to Universal" mantra cracks me up...

I think people have the right to complain about FP+, as others have the right to enjoy WDW and FP+.

But the cries of "I'm going to Universal, it's so great" are a bit naive.
If you believe that everyone and their brother and their relatives and their friends are going to abandon Disney for Universal, then what happens when Universal is swamped with huge Disney like crowds?

The standby lines will become ridiculously long there as well. For those who say "I'll get the express pass" well guess what, so will everyone else... Their is no FP- at Universal, and the result is that both the standby lines and the express pass lines will be very long. If you think that Universal will regulate how many express passes are sold, Lol. No, Lol. They are a corporation that thrives on profit, and they will look at long lines as a sign of success. They will let their park get just as crowded as the Disney does with the MK, and express pass sales are more money in their coffers.

The fun will be reading the Universal boards and seeing the outrage the regulars exhibit concerning the now ridiculously long lines, both standby and express pass, if this happens. They will be hating on the "Disney" people who came to "their" park and ruined it. Lol.

Disney had record attendance at the Florida parks the past few years, and even with FP+ I expect that they, and Universal, will report record attendance and profits in 2014. Unless both parks start limiting daily attendance a la Discovery Cove, in a few years both Disney and Universal will be a mess.

Universal makes more money off of Butterbeer than Express Pass. Just sayin'.

They are about to double those sales, and then some....come June 2014.

Photo by MiketheBoss over at Orlando United

 

[North of Mouse]

We stay DVC so no cost for lodging...we get military tickets which are way cheaper than regular tickets, we only eat maybe one meal in the parks (not because we are cheap, mostly because we get tired of eating out). We also usually have somewhere between $100-$600 reward money with our Disney visa for free money...so yeah...I can usually do Disney cheaper than anything else.

Oh trust me... I know DVC is expensive...but it's already paid for...so when I get back from our vacation I don't have a hotel bill. That's what I mean by "free". Heck I have probably $400 in Disney gift cards that I randomly buy and I also count that as "free" money because by the time the trip comes around they have been long ago paid for...and an extra $50 on the credit card every month or so is hardly noticeable. So in my world...that's free.

And since I just paid the dues today...yes I KNOW it's not really free. But the dues are in my yearly budget...not a big deal...and doesn't factor into my vacation funds...so yea...room is still free in my mind

Wow, 'Free' lodging at Disney - 'Free' maintenance on DVC - 'Free' Disney gift cards!

A lot of us would like to know how to do Disney for 'Free'!!

Disney 'loves' people like you that considers everything 'free' if it is paid for in advance!

You are paying 'dearly' for 'everything' you are getting at Disney - 'Prepaying, Yes - Free? - a big NO! Disney loves people to be disillusioned!