Disney World is BROKEN!

[JimmyV]

:The largest tourist destination in the US should not be expected to be empty. Go to Time Square and see how that goes. Walk down Wilshire Blvd. Go sit in LA traffic. Visit Bangkok or Shanghai. Or London or Rome. Cool places have CROWDS.

It really is quite different. Walking around Times Square is the activity. So the fact that it is crowded is of no moment. But the Broadway theater just off of Times Square stops selling tickets when the theater hits capacity. If a WDW vacation was simply walking down Main Street U.S.A., then your analogy would be spot on. But it is different. It is more like the theater. And Disney knows that. They do have "capacity control numbers". They simply need to be adjusted downward. National Parks limit the number of guests because at some critical point, the beauty that you come to see is lost when the crowds are too big. The MK simply isn't going to be a magical place when 75K people are in it. Lower the numbers and raise the prices. There's your solution.

 

[JZCubed]

It is too crowded that is true.

The other problem is the lack of rides at the other three parks (DHS, AK, Epcot).

THIS.

First, let me say that when we first starting going as a family, I was determined to follow the Guidebook 'rule' that we not spend more than 4 hours in a Park. After about 4 hours, young children just start losing interest. The Guidebook also mentioned that when asked about their favorite Disney experience, most children say, "The swimming pool at the hotel."

Also, to make our vacation a vacation, we make certain that there is a daily balance between Parks, relaxation, and food (typically, just 1 ADR/day unless we plan a character meal as well). As our child gets older, we have been able to add nighttime activities after an early dinner.

Magic Kingdom has enough for us to do. We start in Adventureland and continue clockwise towards FP+ in either/both Frontierland & Fantasyland....and seemingly leave before stopping in at Tomorrowland. Or, we go counter-clockwise and end up missing attractions in Adventureland.

EPCOT is a Park I have come to enjoy, more because my wife enjoys it. I have little use for the World Showcase, but the stroll with my family is no less a vacation than a sandy beach or wandering the streets of a another tourist destination. Future World could use another fun attraction or two, but we seem to make it work because we are always there during Flower & Garden Show. If I have one complaint about Future World - in many ways, it is starting to look less like the Future every year.

Animal Kingdom is often the least favored Park on DisBoards, but it might be my favorite. Certainly, more attractions are necessary, but we love the shows. Were it not for Lion King (closed for our upcoming stay), Nemo, and Flights of Wonder, we'd never go. My child will be too short for both Primal Whirl & Everest for a few more years, an she is done with Dumbo, er, ah, TriceraTops. We can only hope that by 2017, Avatarland will offer something more than a stroll through Pandora.

Hollywood Studios is our least favored Park. Toy Story is a madhouse that should just be doubled in size. Once again, our child is too short for Rockin' Coaster for a few more years...but just about outgrown Disney Jr. Also, we find the food the least enjoyable here. Fortunately, we stay at Boardwalk and enjoy the food poolside at the Dolphin. But in the end, there is just too little to do here that is fun. Carsland and/or adding more Pixar just seems too obvious to the rest of us.

So after reviewing all I mentioned, I can come to only one conclusion - folks who are disappointed in Disney probably spend more time and/or want to spend more time in the Parks for the pricey admission.

If this was my goal, I'd probably be more empathetic. For better or worse, better in my case, we have found a reasonable balance. Moreover, we found that FP+ makes our trip more enjoyable - no need to rush into the Parks to minimize time we spend on lines. Between FP+ obligations, we simply locate those 'kitschy' things like Country Bears, Carousel of Progress, shopping, etc. in an attempt to follow the KISS method (keep it simple stupid) that makes us want to go back 2X a year. So far, so good.

Of course, in our case, each trip is a new experience for our young child. Maybe she is tall enough to try new things, or we have eliminated things for toddlers and added new attractions. More simply, as we get better accustomed to the Park layouts that seemingly make the Park(s) shrink, we can add some of those things that we had previously passed.

I guess what I'm really getting at - for us, going to Disney World is not about how much can we do in the Parks. Our 'must-do' list is likely shorter than those who (rightly) complain. The Parks are our morning activity for what remains a resort vacation that includes shopping, dining, relaxation, and just spending invaluable time as a family.

 

[JimmyV]

January 2014:
1 day ticket - $95 (83% increase from 2004, 48% increase accounting for inflation if both prices were in 2014 dollars )
7 day ticket - $309 (6% DECREASE from 2004, 24% DECREASE accounting for inflation if both prices were in 2014 dollars)

These prices are still way cheaper than a single day lift ticket at a major ski resort (that allows you access from around 8:30-4:00 as opposed to midnight), and a lot cheaper than a round of golf at a significant golf course. Disney has a lot of room to move in terms of pricing.

 

[KatieCharlotte]

I keep hearing that Disney needs to add more attractions and I dont disagree in principle.

But do you think that adding more attractions would alleviate the crowd issues? Wouldnt Disney heavily market their attractions to bring even more people into the parks to see what is new? Didnt this happen with the NFL and will happen at the eventual opening of the Mine Train?

The Mine Train will bring back some guests who've been to WDW and were waiting for something new to entice them to return. It's not going to attract people who would otherwise not have considered traveling to WDW. Attractions that are appealing but don't bring in a large obsessive fan base (like Harry Potter did for Universal), will increase capacity without significantly increasing crowds. As much as I'd rather see a Star Wars land than Avatarland, the latter will probably do a better job shifting crowds to the underutilized park without significantly increasing the number of people going to WDW. There are many options for Epcot using the existing themes that could take the pressure off Soarin and Test Track. At DHS, a couple new family friendly rides would help TSMM.

 

[Magpie]

I do think it's too bad that Disney was meant to be for everyone. But, there are many, many people who cannot afford it. To go, for even just one day, is several hundred dollars for a family. I helped our neighbors price out their first vacation to WDW last night. They have very good jobs and take nice trips. They are still in complete shock at the cost for a week. It's twice what they've ever spent for any other trip.

We felt the same way until we flew down to visit my relatives on the Gulf Coast for a week. On the surface, it seemed cheaper. Then we added up the cost of meals, the cost of day trips, the cost of museums and entertainment...

It came out to MORE than a Disney trip!

The thing we didn't appreciate about Disney is that the entertainment is all included. We don't have to pay almost a hundred dollars for a family of four to visit a museum for half a day.

The Audobon Aquarium of The Americas, for example, charges $22.50 for each person over the age of 12, and if you want to see the IMAX film, that's an additional 5 dollars each. Oh, you want to visit Ship Island instead? That's 27 dollars for each person over the age of 10.

We personally find Disney quite reasonably priced, for what it is.

 

[JimmyV]

So after reviewing all I mentioned, I can come to only one conclusion - folks who are disappointed in Disney probably spend more time and/or want to spend more time in the Parks for the pricey admission.

If this was my goal, I'd probably be more empathetic. For better or worse, better in my case, we have found a reasonable balance.

I think this goes to my earlier point, and you stated it perfectly. Repeat visitors, and those who have "done it all" can easily find ways to have a great time, even if it means spending only 4 hours at a park. Rent a speed boat. Play golf. Ride horses. Swim at the pool. Lots of stuff to do. But trying to convince first-time visitors to do this is next to impossible. Instead, they do exactly what you describe and spend more (frustrating) time in the parks and come away less fulfilled than we did when we first visited, and in the end, Disney fails to win another convert. Sure, it is winning many. But from the experiences of my own circle of friends, family and colleagues, the numbers are dropping steadily. Heck. One of my best friends is an executive and draws his paycheck from Disney, gets the free passes, VIP passes, and all that, and we took his 14 year old daughter with us to WDW for her first visit. Why? Because neither he nor his wife had any interest in vacationing at the crowded resort owned by the company that signs his checks.

 

[summermac]

We felt the same way until we flew down to visit my relatives on the Gulf Coast for a week. On the surface, it seemed cheaper. Then we added up the cost of meals, the cost of day trips, the cost of museums and entertainment...

It came out to MORE than a Disney trip!

This is how my family ended at going to WDW for our first ever trip in 1998. The year before we spent a week in Gatlinburg and by the time my parents added up all the receipts - accomodations, meals, gas, entertainment, etc my dad said to my mom: "We could have went to Disney World!" so we did the next summer.

Any trip you take, you can minimize costs in a number of ways (yes including Disney) and I think when you book other vacations it does often seem to not cost as much than WDW because you typically pay for the stuff bit by bit as opposed to getting the one price if you do a package.

 

[ToyStory3]

We felt the same way until we flew down to visit my relatives on the Gulf Coast for a week. On the surface, it seemed cheaper. Then we added up the cost of meals, the cost of day trips, the cost of museums and entertainment...

It came out to MORE than a Disney trip!

The thing we didn't appreciate about Disney is that the entertainment is all included. We don't have to pay almost a hundred dollars for a family of four to visit a museum for half a day.

The Audobon Aquarium of The Americas, for example, charges $22.50 for each person over the age of 12, and if you want to see the IMAX film, that's an additional 5 dollars each. Oh, you want to visit Ship Island instead? That's 27 dollars for each person over the age of 10.

We personally find Disney quite reasonably priced, for what it is.

I'm not saying that Disney isn't worth it or that it doesn't give you a great experience for your money. But, it is extremely expensive. And, there are lots of people who cannot go because of that. We pay half as much when we go to the beach and have twice as much space. They are two very different vacations but I don't think anyone can argue that Disney isn't expensive.

 

[JZCubed]

2. WDW is in serious risk of losing repeat business from new visitors. And this is where the "repairs" are needed the most. I know that this comment will not be well-received here on a fan Board, but of the people with whom I have spoken who first visited WDW within the past 5 years, and who are not Chat Board regulars, about half to two-thirds of those folks have no intention of returning. They simply had a lousy time, mostly due to the crowds.

Friends of ours just returned from their first trip to Disney over the extremely busy Christmas/New Year time.

Had they not done a little homework, that included some advice from us, they might have had an awful experience. But they did their homework and had a blast.

For what it's worth, they stayed at Swan & Dolphin and did not have the use of advanced FP+. They knew this and made it work.

Also, prior to their stay, they had no intention of gong back. However, since they had such a great time, they are trying to figure out how to go with our family the next time.

And again, they went during what is among the busiest time and had limited use of FP+.

Frankly, I am amazed at the number of people who do little advance planning. A little planning goes a long way.

 

[lifesgr8]

Reply to read later

 

[awilliams4]

Because a large percentage of daily attendance is new visitors that don't know any different.

Nice spin, you could get a job here, http://careers.foxnews.com/

How long does that logic last. If a place sucks so much, wouldn't word get around sooner or later? Or did Disney break just within the past 48 hours?

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Do they release any of this information during their Annual Report? I'd actually love to know the numbers on this, beyond just idle DIS speculation.

No idea, sorry

 

[JimmyV]

There are many options for Epcot using the existing themes that could take the pressure off Soarin and Test Track. At DHS, a couple new family friendly rides would help TSMM.

There is an entire "land" at DHS devoted to Pixar, and the only ride representing this branch of the animation business is TSM. Universal goes out on some pretty slim reeds to tie rides in to movies/shows/characters. Can't WDW do something with:

• Monster's Inc./Monsters U
• Finding Nemo
• The Incrdibles
• Cars
• Wall-E

And I'm not talking about meeitng characters in puffy rubber suits. These are some of the biggest, most popular, most profitable movies in the Disney arsenal, and "Pixar Place" is devoid of all of them.

 

[North of Mouse]

I've been to DW over 10 times in my 40+ years and the experience just gets worse each year. I really wanted to believe that each bad visit was just an anomaly...maybe bad luck, or the wrong time of year, but I've learned that it doesn't really matter when you go, the Disney Magic is long gone.

The root of all the problems are the crowds, or more specifically the over demand/ under supply imbalance related to their most popular attractions. Even in the "slow" months ( I just got back yesterday), the parks are so crowded you are forced into full Disney combat mode to make sure you have a " fun" time at the park. You all know what that is... Get there at rope drop, get your fast passes, plan your route, make ur adrs months in advance, eat early, ride while others are watching parades. It's INSANITY! But not doing all that is even more insane because you'll be stuck in lines all day and maybe even miss riding certain attractions all together if you don't follow THE plan. There has got to be a better way. A way for an average family to have a fun, relaxing, enjoyable time at a DW park without having to read the Disboards for a month, make adrs months in advance, get up at 6am to beat rope drop, or need a precise touring plan to stay one step ahead of the masses all day long.

I think it's time for a rebellion. It's time we let disney know that their parks are broken. That the experience has lost a lot of its fun. THat we are tired of them allowing more people into the parks then their attractions and restaurants can comfortably accommodate. That we expect some drastic rethinking of what sort of experience they are attempting to provide.

To address these problems won't be easy or cheap, and disney has absolutely no incentive to even try unless we make our displeasure known. So if you too found your disney vacation more of a stresscation than a vacation, speak up, let us know what you think could be done to make things better.

I'll start with my 2 cents.

1. In busy periods, far fewer people should be let in. It's that simple. Just because they are legally allowed to jam a zillion people into the park, doesn't mean they should.

2. Even in slower periods, you're still stuck in crazy long lines for the main rides or forced to get there at rope drop to ensure fast passes. This has to end. How? I don't know, but I'm sure they could try something. Maybe they change park pricing to discourage multiple rides on popular rides. How about $60 park admission, but $10 extra for each ride on splash mountain, space mntn, soarin, test track, tot, and any other super popular ride. Or maybe they offer fast passes only to those who pay like at universal, or maybe they build a second soarin, test track, etc to cut lines down.

These might all be lousy ideas, but the point is, there has to be a good idea out there somewhere. It's time disney started trying harder to find it.

Please add to this post with your comments/ideas if you too would like to see change. Dis execs do read these boards and will notice this thread if it gets big enough.

Sorry that your vacations to WDW have mostly been disappointing. Just don't agree personally with your reasons though. We never go on holidays, but other than that the crowds do not bother us. Have not had the problems of having to plan every minute (in fact we are 'barely' planners). We make a few 'must do' dinner ressies for our 10 days and that is it.

We have had some 'very' relaxed, happy times at Disney and even though the latest changes are not to my liking I know we will still have an enjoyable time. We tend to make our own happiness there and not worry about some things we cannot change.

Would rather the Magic Bands and FP+ would 'go away' but doubt my 2 cents will matter. We are going to start going less often though, and plan trips to other destinations beginning this year.

 

[JimmyV]

Had they not done a little homework, that included some advice from us, they might have had an awful experience. But they did their homework and had a blast.

Frankly, I am amazed at the number of people who do little advance planning. A little planning goes a long way.

So in the end, it took the advice of a veteran to rescue their vacation, which is great. I love to hear stories of people actually heeding advice. But to your last point, a little planning goes a long way, but that is mostly a lesson learned with hindsight from a less-than-perfect past experience. And a less-than-perfect past experience that costs $5,000 is tough to bounce back from. Bringing this back to the original post, is an amusement park that can only be enjoyed with advanced planning and homework "broken", or, at a minimum, in need of repairs?

 

[johde]

The single day ticket price increases at Walt Disney World have far outpaced inflation. Yet the multi-day tickets have actually become cheaper. This has resulted in an increase in attendance despite the massive increase in single day pricing.

Just look at the gate prices between 10 years ago and today:

January 2004:
1 day ticket - $52 ($64 in 2014 dollars)
7 day ticket - $329 ($406 in 2014 dollars)


January 2014:
1 day ticket - $95 (83% increase from 2004, 48% increase accounting for inflation if both prices were in 2014 dollars )
7 day ticket - $309 (6% DECREASE from 2004, 24% DECREASE accounting for inflation if both prices were in 2014 dollars)

The price decrease between 2004 and 2014 can be attributed to one thing MYW and A la carte pricing in 2005. The 7 day ticket in 2004 including park hopping, water park visits (plus options) and never expired. Adding all of those in brings the price up to $627.30. (90% increase, 54% increase accounting for inflation) neither include any allowances for changes in plus features offered between years.

Your point though is still valid. That one that allowed them to raise prices while at the same time charge people less money. They made the long Disney Vacation cheaper while making the short trip more expensive.

Another Comparison In 2005 a 7day MYW base ticket cost $199 (55% increase in 9 years)

 

[summermac]

The lack of Pixar is pretty sad. Yeah they added a bunch of Cars stuff - to a resort! WTH. The refurb of Test Track was a perfect opportunity. Wall-E is another one that is a perfect opportunity to use to their advantage - but again I see that at Epcot more than anything and perhaps replacing Ellen.

Monsters Inc/U - yes please! I love (and so do my kids) both those movies.

 

[gorkt]

I don't think WDW is "broken" - way too much hyperbole for me.

I go every 3-4 years on average since I was a kid, so I have seen the changes over time, and I would pick WDW now, even with the increased crowds, over WDW in 1980 anytime. There is so much more to do, and the resort experience really adds a lot to the vacation.

My most recent trip, last year, was my favorite ever. Part of that had to do with my kids just being a great age for the parks, but overall, WDW delivered a quality product. I did do a lot of advance planning, but I always do, and I really enjoy the anticipation. We tested FP+ and Magic bands, and I really liked them - just worked well for our family and our travelling and touring style. I understand that others wouldn't like them, and I am not a big fan of the tiering that they implemented after my trip, but I think the general infrastructure that they put in place was a good first step and hopefully the kinks will be ironed out.

I do think that they need to really think seriously at this point about adding another park. They have the attendance and the franchises (Star Wars/Marvel) to support it. They also need a few more rides in EPCOT and especially HS to even out the Soarin/Test Track/TSM craziness.

 

[Laketravis]

2. WDW is in serious risk of losing repeat business from new visitors. And this is where the "repairs" are needed the most. I know that this comment will not be well-received here on a fan Board, but of the people with whom I have spoken who first visited WDW within the past 5 years, and who are not Chat Board regulars, about half to two-thirds of those folks have no intention of returning. They simply had a lousy time, mostly due to the crowds. It is difficult for us "hard corps" to put ourselves in the shoes of first-timers, but consider the family of 4 that approaches a WDW vacation the way they approach most vacations, which is to say, with some planning, but nowhere near what the people here do. They book a room at the Poly and get the Meal Plan. They wake up and have a character breakfast with Stitch and saunter into DHS at 10:00 with no FP+ reservations. They wait in a 75 minute line at TSM, hit the GMR, have a CS lunch, and then wait in one hour long lines at ToT and RnR respectively. It is now 3:00 and they have done 4 things, while waiting in lines for over three and a half hours. And this day is costing them over $1,000. These are the stories that I hear from people now. I try to (and do) tell them about advance planning, strategies, Rope Drop, Fast Passes, and all that comes with it, but I am mostly met with blank stares and replies of incredulity. These folks are never going back. Disney did not "capture" them the way it captured us in the early 70's, and families throughout the 80's and 90's. Now, to be "captured", you have to approach a WDW vacation the way the Allies approached the Beaches of Normandy. It can be done, and I masochistically admit to liking that part of the vacation. But many do not, and Disney is in real danger of losing the next generation of guests. Again, largely due to crowd control issues.

Couldn't have said that better myself, and have seen personal evidence of it. One particular co-worker recently returned after their first trip. I had advised them to plan but didn't push it, knew they had no idea that just going with the flow might not be sufficient. Asked them how they liked it after they got back, she told me they had fun but "we'll probably never go again because it's just too crowded."

The single day ticket price increases at Walt Disney World have far outpaced inflation. Yet the multi-day tickets have actually become cheaper. This has resulted in an increase in attendance despite the massive increase in single day pricing.....It is clear that Disney has adjusted their pricing to discourage people from coming for just one day and to encourage people to buy multi-day tickets. Every day past day 4 only costs an additional $10.

So true - we've always found incredible value with 10 day tickets, lowering the effective daily cost to less than $35 per day. Annual Passes are an even better deal at only $50 a month.

And therein lies the potential for unintended consequences. I don't think raising the 1-day admission price sold the day off would be anywhere near as effective as raising the multi-day tickets and Annual Passes.

From the Disney bean counter perspective, guests with AP's or MYW Tickets who stay off site are their nemesis.

 

[ucfknight]

The price decrease between 2004 and 2014 can be attributed to one thing MYW and A la carte pricing in 2005. The 7 day ticket in 2004 including park hopping, water park visits (plus options) and never expired. Adding all of those in brings the price up to $627.30. (90% increase, 54% increase accounting for inflation) neither include any allowances for changes in plus features offered between years.

Your point though is still valid. That one that allowed them to raise prices while at the same time charge people less money. They made the long Disney Vacation cheaper while making the short trip more expensive.

Another Comparison In 2005 a 7day MYW base ticket cost $199 (55% increase in 9 years)

Right. I know the MYW tickets came about in 2005, but I was just talking about someone walking up to window and saying "give me a 7 day ticket". My comparisons are based on the "cheapest 7 day ticket" pricing.

The strategy to go to MYW and to make the base price of the long ticket options cheap was just part of the strategy of lock-in. Someone buying the cheapest 7 day ticket in 2004 was not locked in. They could use 2 days at the parks, decide they didn't like it or it was too crowded, and then go play at Universal for the rest of their week. Since the other 5 days they didn't use on their WDW tickets never expired, they could keep them forever knowing that they could come back in a year or two or 20 and still use up their ticket.

Going to MYW and making the base price of the long tickets cheap (in comparison with single day), locks in the guest because they now have to use those tickets within 14 days. Those guests are now a captive audience and are almost assured of spending all 7 days in the park buying up $10 hamburgers and $25 t-shirts. Even if they are staying offsite, you have still locked them in using the 2 week expiration time for the tickets.

Don't want to have your 7 day ticket expire? Sure.. no problem... we'll just charge you $220 to make up for the lost revenue we won't make off you right now.