Disney World is BROKEN!

[1000HappyWishes]

When I go to Disney I'm just happy to be at Disney. Crowds and lines don't bother me and I like being able to plan my ADRS. I prefer being a rope dropper, but I've arrived at the parks much later than Rope Drop and still had an excellent time. I went over Spring Break last year and it was a blast. I didn't feel it was too crowded at all the and the weather was perfect. Disney is a company and they have to make money. If it's legal to jam-pack people in their parks, than I expect them to and want them to. I'd rather they stay in business and deal with long lines than not have any Disney! Disney has its flaws but at its heart it's still Disney. They're building Avatarland and the Mine Train, and the Imagineers are always working on new things. I'll be going to Disney until the day I die and that's a fact.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Because a large percentage of daily attendance is new visitors that don't know any different.

Such is the business model of any successful operation. You can't continue to retain ALL your existing clients. But, if you can replace every 1 you lose with 2 brand new ones, profits will continue to climb.

 

[mom2rtk]

You call it "overcrowded". The marketing staff calls that "this year's bonus" amid high fives around the room.

I do agree that something has fallen out of balance. Disney announced publicly that they weren't interested in an arms race of rides. That tells me volumes about their plans (or lack thereof).

The answer is not limiting attendance. The problem is their lack of desire to add more attractions to absorb the crowds.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

Such is the business model of any successful operation. You can't continue to retain ALL your existing clients. But, if you can replace every 1 you lose with 2 brand new ones, profits will continue to climb.

Do they release any of this information during their Annual Report? I'd actually love to know the numbers on this, beyond just idle DIS speculation.

 

[Magpie]

I think it's time for a rebellion. It's time we let disney know that their parks are broken. That the experience has lost a lot of its fun. THat we are tired of them allowing more people into the parks then their attractions and restaurants can comfortably accommodate. That we expect some drastic rethinking of what sort of experience they are attempting to provide.

I won't be joining your "rebellion", as we've been going since 2005, and have had a wonderful time each and every visit.

I agree with many points OP. In fact, I often wonder what people who aren't on this board or similar ones do. If it wasn't for all the tips I've seen here our previous trips would have been pretty disappointing. It's only due to meticulous planning that people can get anywhere close to experiencing the stuff you see in commercials.

Universal, Six Flags in NJ, Cedar Point in Ohio are parks we've visited that have the extra charge FPs and this seems to work.

I don't get my touring tips from THIS board. I get them from sources like easywdw.com. I only come to this board for the drama. And occasionally to see if I can be helpful.

Because a large percentage of daily attendance is new visitors that don't know any different.

Yeah, only ignorant people go to Disney these days. Hordes and hordes of ignorant people, who just keep streaming happily through the gates every single morning, while those who are in the know sit back and shake their heads sadly over the stupidity of it all and try to organize futile "rebellions". Glad I'll be getting to join the hordes again in April! (Gotta make the most of my AP, don'cha know.)

Oddly, I'm reminded of my 16yo who despairs over the fact that the rest of his family actually likes popular music. "People like you destroy music, with your plebeian tastes and blind willingness to throw money at whatever's popular, instead of supporting real artists!"

"Quiet son, I'm playing 'Let it Go' again!"

"Aaargh!"

 

[LSUfan4444]

The beach is broken because I don't like sand.

Aspen in February is broken because I don't like my hands cold and don't want to buy gloves or research proper ski attire.

Europe is broken because I don't have a passport and don't want to learn another language.

Cruises are broken because I get sea sick, don't like doctors and get scared by the movie Titanic.

The Grand Canyon is broken because I get altitude sickness.

Hawaii is broken because I don't want to fly.

 

[wiigirl]

Because a large percentage of daily attendance is new visitors that don't know any different.

I think thats definetly some of it.

 

[mefordis]

The biggest problem is, the only way to reduce crowds is to increase the price of the tickets. It really is a no win situation. If the price goes up, crowds go down, complaints on being priced out go up. Reduce the number of people allowed in the gate, crowds go down, complaints about not getting in go up. Keep the same, crowds go up. And so on.

I don't think this would stop people from coming. Prices are already astronomical. I believe people would just take their credit cards and charge away, finance DVC, do whatever it takes to go. Come on, what percentage of people do you believe actually pay cash for these trips? I'd say about 25%. The rest is done with debt.

Disney encourages it with their DVC finance plan and their Chase credit card 0% apr for 6 months deal.

 

[Magpie]

I don't think this would stop people from coming. Prices are already astronomical. I believe people would just take their credit cards and charge away, finance DVC, do whatever it takes to go. Come on, what percentage of people do you believe actually pay cash for these trips? I'd say about 25%. The rest is done with debt.

Disney encourages it with their DVC finance plan and their Chase credit card 0% apr for 6 months deal.

Not to mention, if Disney actually raised prices in an overt attempt to discourage attendance, I can already predict the screaming and gnashing of teeth over Disney's "greed" and "elitism" and "the good old days when a Disney vacation was for the average American, not just the super-rich elite!"

It'd be ugly.

 

[lugnut33]

They could make Magic Kingdom into a Discovery Cove like playground for those who could afford it, but I think most of us would not want that. It would solve the problem of crowds and FP+, though. They could sell only 5,000 tickets each day with unlimited riding of all rides with short lines. Tickets would probably cost 5-10 times what they do now, but maybe that's where MK will be in 5 years and Disneyland will be the park for the masses.

Just some quick math, since we all love math.

Let's say an average day there are 75,000 that come to the MK and they spend an average of $100 between tickets, food, and souvenirs. In order to get the crowds down to a manageable 25,000 for the day Disney could charge $300 for a day ticket. Would that be OK to get lower crowds?

 

[summermac]

I haven't been since May 2012 so I can't speak for how current crowds are (give me 15 days and I will, WOOHOO!) but I will say that in June 2009 the parks were insanely crowded thanks to WDW running the 4/3 promo. Thank God for this board b/c it helped me plan so much better. Did we have some snafus? Yes - our AK day sucked completely. It was too hot and too crowded. Also one of our MK days it was crazy so we GOT OUT and enjoyed the resort. Our May trip was so much better and in fact we felt like we had too many days on our ticket because we had done everything we wanted to do in about 5 days (had 8 day tickets). Do I think WDW is broken? Nah, but again I might change my mind after being there in February. I have not enjoyed the extra work and planning it has taken to get both ADRs and FP+ that's for sure. And MDE is a giant pain with it constantly screwing up, showing ghost FP+ and the like so that is extremely annoying.

Also I think this is an excellent point:
"But if you look at the entire package, the thrill rides, the family rides, the shows, then there is more than enough in all the parks to fill the day. Personally, I think amusement parks are better geared to the thrill faction than theme parks are, because their focus IS on thrill rides and not necessarily the overall experience of the park."

I live in Ohio and we have two amusement parks, well actually 3 b/c I live near WV/PA as well within driving distance: Cedar Point, Kings Island and Kennywood
None of them compare to WDW when it comes to the OVERALL EXPERIENCE. Now thrill rides/other rides - even Kennywood almost blows WDW away but the entire experience, no way. If I take a break at one of those parks, I sit on a bench and stare at a giant ride, trash on the ground, or one giant metal attraction after another. I will say Kennywood is the nicest of the three parks in terms of "prettiness" but it still doesn't come close to WDW. No way. There is no comparison. I can take a break at MK by watching Philharmagic or Monsters Inc. At AK, I can watch Bug's Life, DHS - Beauty and the Beast show, and Epcot there's always Ellen, LOL! Those things just aren't at these other amusement parks. Well there are a few shows here and there that generally stink or that you don't have time for because you spend about an hour waiting in a neverending line to ride coaster after coaster after coaster. Also the tickets for these parks are not cheap:
Cedar Point - one day $50 adult/$35 junior or $88 for two day ride & slide adult/$53 junior
Kings Island - $41/$37 one day; two days $58
Kennywood - $34/$28 one day
I realize these are cheaper than 1 day at WDW but I still wouldn't call them cheap.

 

[BrianL]

I guess it's relative what one considers to be too crowded. I don't think an hour wait is a ridiculously long line. Try Radiator Springs Racers at DCA for a long line (and 7DMT surely once it opens)! Lines are part of a theme park. I just can't imagine a January crowd that was overwhelmingly large.

As for "broken," well, certainly there are areas that need some help. The non MK parks do need some new rides (especially Epcot with all that available space). Interestingly it is MK that has been getting the love, though it needed it the least. Still, what the parks do have is all wonderful and I always have a good time without overplanning.

 

[summermac]

Come on, what percentage of people do you believe actually pay cash for these trips? I'd say about 25%. The rest is done with debt.

Every single one of our trips has been bought and paid for before we ever left the house. In fact, all of our vacations have been and always will be. If we don't have the money, we don't go on vacation. And that has happened!

 

[hardrock01]

Disney is not broke. I have plenty of their stock and have been rewarded quite well till last week . It is an evolving fluid company that makes profit by more income, cutting cost and snazzy commercialism. Until this business model fails , followed by lower attendance they will continue to do what they do.
Do I like larger and larger crowds? NO! but I do understand that Disney is a business , A VERY LARGE BUSINESS, and we are but a grain of sand in the big picture. Luckily our family can make the best of almost any situation and crowds or not we will have a great time. Also if costs keep rising , we will spend some of our vacation budget elsewhere and see more of the world outside of Disney!! LONG LIVE THE CORPORATION!

 

[undertheradar]

Honestly, WDW hasn't been as calm and relaxing as it was in the early days for a very long time. The number of on property resorts and the DVC resorts has created crowds that now invade what used to be the quietest weeks of the year. When Disney execs bonus based upon dollars brought in, greed wins out.

Look at Disneyland and California Adventure. CA was built on the cheap and the Disney execs have been spending large sums of money to "fix" what was poor planning.

WDW needs another park, nobody can deny that. EPCOT has always had the feel of being an adult park, perhaps it is time for WDW to get a park for the under 12 set. Something needs to be done to lessen the crowds when you are charging $100 per day.

 

[missmary]

Just some quick math, since we all love math.

Let's say an average day there are 75,000 that come to the MK and they spend an average of $100 between tickets, food, and souvenirs. In order to get the crowds down to a manageable 25,000 for the day Disney could charge $300 for a day ticket. Would that be OK to get lower crowds?

This is an interesting thought experiment. The math I used was taking the reported 17 million yearly attendance and dividing by 365 to get a sense of the daily attendance, which is about 47,000, and then using the highest current ticket price for MK which is $100. So I was thinking if they charged $500 per person for a ticket, then they could really limit the number of people and each of those people would have the most amazing experience.

Now, I really don't want to see MK go to this. It would be an elite theme park at that point. But I do like thinking about it.

I think they would really have to go far in the other direction to the 5,000 total allowed in or something because otherwise people wouldn't feel they are getting an amazing value for the crazy ticket prices. At 25,000, even though that is limited, people would still have lines to deal with and they may not see $300 as worth it.

 

[mefordis]

Every single one of our trips has been bought and paid for before we ever left the house. In fact, all of our vacations have been and always will be. If we don't have the money, we don't go on vacation. And that has happened!

Okay, well I guess you aren't among the 75%. Congratulations.

 

[manning]

The biggest problem is, the only way to reduce crowds is to increase the price of the tickets. It really is a no win situation. If the price goes up, crowds go down, complaints on being priced out go up. Reduce the number of people allowed in the gate, crowds go down, complaints about not getting in go up. Keep the same, crowds go up. And so on.

Raising prices are ok. The problem is is not getting your money's worth. The prices keep going up and the quality keeps going down.

The problem is Wall Street and upper management. Their demand is give us more...profit.

It will go so far and eventually collapse. Witness the big three auto companies.

 

[Jennasis]

I'm not sure I would call it broken...but it's definitely not working as well as it once was. I still love the place, but I'm starting to see things happen I don't agree with or care for.

 

[MichelleVW]

We've been going every year (at least once sometimes 2-3 times a year) for the past 13 years. Was there the week before Christmas last year and we have a trip planned for March 9-14 this year. We had a great time, used FP plus that we scheduled the night we got there, used very few paper Fast Passes, (honestly I think only 2 the whole time) only did two rope drops and still rode everything we wanted to and more with no waits. We didn't have a touring plan, but I guess after going so much "the plan" is already in my head and we tweak it as we go.

It's different now without Paper Fast Passes...but as much as I wanted to hate it...I didn't. It was actually way more relaxed with less running around than we had done in the past. Sorry...not defending Disney and saying everything is peaches and cream...but we had a good time.