Disney World is BROKEN!

[mom2rtk]

I'm not sure I would call it broken...but it's definitely not working as well as it once was. I still love the place, but I'm starting to see things happen I don't agree with or care for.

I think that sums up the way a lot of us are feeling.

 

[ariel326]

maybe, just maybe it has something to do with the economy doing better then it has in quite a long time. Perhaps it is plausible that many people didn't take vacations for many years because they couldn't afford it or wanted to wait until things were more secure. Now, many of those people are finding themselves able to go - which means increases in the parks.

Also, maybe there are adults who grew up in the 70's and 80's and never had a chance to go. But now that they are adults and have children of their own, they want to take them to the parks and share memories with them that they never had.

Disney isn't really to blame. They are a tourist destination and their goal is to bring people in and make money. End of story. If they are busy that means people can afford to go there which in all reality is a GOOD thing and that means they are doing their job.

I don't understand where this idea came from that because you are at Disney, it excepts you from standing in lines and not having to deal with lines. Any other amusement park you go to you are going to deal with expensive tickets, crowds and lines. Six Flags in Chicago is almost 70 a person, no its not as expensive as Disney, but its pretty close for a one day ticket. And lets not even talk about how expensive Chicago is to stay and do other excursions around the city.

If you don't like how Disney does things, then don't go. Plain and simple. There are plenty of other tourist destinations that would be happy to take your money.

 

[Melany502]

I just got back from my first ever trip to WDW and I was prepared for there to be way more crowds. We went on SO many rides at MK in one day and we didn't get to the park till 10:30. The only thing I waited for was meeting Rapunzel and Snow white. It said 20 min wait and it ended up being an hour. I am looking forward to planning another trip!

 

[LSUfan4444]

Every single one of our trips has been bought and paid for before we ever left the house. In fact, all of our vacations have been and always will be. If we don't have the money, we don't go on vacation. And that has happened!

Sadly, in America today, this is the exception not the norm.

 

[mom2rtk]

maybe, just maybe it has something to do with the economy doing better then it has in quite a long time. Perhaps it is plausible that many people didn't take vacations for many years because they couldn't afford it or wanted to wait until things were more secure. Now, many of those people are finding themselves able to go - which means increases in the parks.

Also, maybe there are adults who grew up in the 70's and 80's and never had a chance to go. But now that they are adults and have children of their own, they want to take them to the parks and share memories with them that they never had.

Disney isn't really to blame. They are a tourist destination and their goal is to bring people in and make money. End of story. If they are busy that means people can afford to go there which in all reality is a GOOD thing and that means they are doing their job.

I don't understand where this idea came from that because you are at Disney, it excepts you from standing in lines and not having to deal with lines. Any other amusement park you go to you are going to deal with expensive tickets, crowds and lines. Six Flags in Chicago is almost 70 a person, no its not as expensive as Disney, but its pretty close for a one day ticket. And lets not even talk about how expensive Chicago is to stay and do other excursions around the city.

If you don't like how Disney does things, then don't go. Plain and simple. There are plenty of other tourist destinations that would be happy to take your money.

Disney is not to be blamed for the increased crowds. They are to be commended for being so successful in their business.

But they ARE to be blamed for not adding more to the parks to keep up with those crowds.

 

[Melany502]

Every single one of our trips has been bought and paid for before we ever left the house. In fact, all of our vacations have been and always will be. If we don't have the money, we don't go on vacation. And that has happened!

Ditto this. I am a stay at home mom and we don't have a huge income, but I would never go into debt for a vacation! I just cut back in other places and keep adding to a vacation savings account. It's nice paying cash. Paying anything with credit (that I can't pay back in a month) stresses me out.

 

[summermac]

Okay, well I guess you aren't among the 75%. Congratulations.

Well thank you.

 

[ariel326]

Disney is not to be blamed for the increased crowds. They are to be commended for being so successful in their business.

But they ARE to be blamed for not adding more to the parks to keep up with those crowds.

I'll give you that one!

 

[mefordis]

Sadly, in America today, this is the exception not the norm.

Yes, thank you. That is my point. No need for people who DO pay in cash for trips to come in and declare it -- I know those people exist. However, we are a society who by and large exists on debt. Our US Government leads the way.

If there were only people at WDW who paid for vacations in cash, the parks would be empty.

 

[PlayaMan]

Disney is not to be blamed for the increased crowds. They are to be commended for being so successful in their business.

But they ARE to be blamed for not adding more to the parks to keep up with those crowds.

I keep hearing that Disney needs to add more attractions and I dont disagree in principle.

But do you think that adding more attractions would alleviate the crowd issues? Wouldnt Disney heavily market their attractions to bring even more people into the parks to see what is new? Didnt this happen with the NFL and will happen at the eventual opening of the Mine Train?

Do you think in the end, it would be a wash with the crowds if they were to have added new attractions? How long would they have stayed ahead of attracting even more people?

Given all this, dont you think it is wise for Disney to be looking into some crowd management techniques? How would you propose they manage the crowds other than just adding more attractions?

 

[ToyStory3]

I do think it's too bad that Disney was meant to be for everyone. But, there are many, many people who cannot afford it. To go, for even just one day, is several hundred dollars for a family. I helped our neighbors price out their first vacation to WDW last night. They have very good jobs and take nice trips. They are still in complete shock at the cost for a week. It's twice what they've ever spent for any other trip.

 

[manning]

Yes, thank you. That is my point. No need for people who DO pay in cash for trips to come in and declare it -- I know those people exist. However, we are a society who by and large exists on debt. Our US Government leads the way.

If there were only people at WDW who paid for vacations in cash, the parks would be empty.

And all uncontrolled debt leads to collapse. It leads to either going broke or lowering your standard of living.

 

[JimmyV]

1. Crowd control is a big issue. If people make dinner reservations in advance and reserve attraction times in advance, perhaps it is time for them to start reserving their parks in advance, with a crowd cut-off far lower than it is now. Set a number, and when that number is hit, you have to pick a different park. If plans change and cancellations are made, then people on the waiting list get in. There is almost nothing at WDW that is a problem that cannot be fixed by simply lowering the daily crowd numbers. This Board is called (in part) the "Strategies" Board. The reason for that is that we all know that an effective strategy is needed to maximize enjoyment. Going to an amusement park should not have to involve a year's worth of planning and "strategies". Experienced visitors, and those who have already "done it all" in the past can come and "wing it". New visitors cannot. Which brings me to....

2. WDW is in serious risk of losing repeat business from new visitors. And this is where the "repairs" are needed the most. I know that this comment will not be well-received here on a fan Board, but of the people with whom I have spoken who first visited WDW within the past 5 years, and who are not Chat Board regulars, about half to two-thirds of those folks have no intention of returning. They simply had a lousy time, mostly due to the crowds. It is difficult for us "hard corps" to put ourselves in the shoes of first-timers, but consider the family of 4 that approaches a WDW vacation the way they approach most vacations, which is to say, with some planning, but nowhere near what the people here do. They book a room at the Poly and get the Meal Plan. They wake up and have a character breakfast with Stitch and saunter into DHS at 10:00 with no FP+ reservations. They wait in a 75 minute line at TSM, hit the GMR, have a CS lunch, and then wait in one hour long lines at ToT and RnR respectively. It is now 3:00 and they have done 4 things, while waiting in lines for over three and a half hours. And this day is costing them over $1,000. These are the stories that I hear from people now. I try to (and do) tell them about advance planning, strategies, Rope Drop, Fast Passes, and all that comes with it, but I am mostly met with blank stares and replies of incredulity. These folks are never going back. Disney did not "capture" them the way it captured us in the early 70's, and families throughout the 80's and 90's. Now, to be "captured", you have to approach a WDW vacation the way the Allies approached the Beaches of Normandy. It can be done, and I masochistically admit to liking that part of the vacation. But many do not, and Disney is in real danger of losing the next generation of guests. Again, largely due to crowd control issues.

WDW has park "cut-offs". But those numbers have to be lowered waaaaaay down in order to fix the problem. And one way to do that without having disappointed people pulling up to the gates is to have advance reservations for parks so that you will know weeks in advance if you will be able to get in to the park of your choice. If you don't, you make a new plan.

 

[estherhead]

Because a large percentage of daily attendance is new visitors that don't know any different.

I say it over and over on here. Disney is a FOR PROFIT company. Crowds=money. So it is in fact not broken. It is working perfectly and hugely, wildly successful.

There are many places you can go on this huge earth and be all alone. The largest tourist destination in the US should not be expected to be empty. Go to Time Square and see how that goes. Walk down Wilshire Blvd. Go sit in LA traffic. Visit Bangkok or Shanghai. Or London or Rome. Cool places have CROWDS. And Disney World has made itself an icon. It is now cool to like Disney.

That is not broken.

I'm sorry that some vets are irritated. I'm going to be irritated too in March, I'm sure, when I go. But I do wish someone would just start a "Say you are never going back" thread and everyone who wants to say "I can't do what I used to do because Disney wants to make new visitors happy" can just post it there and all other threads on the subject will be deleted.

Then my favorite fan site can go back to being a FAN site.

 

[myjourney]

Maybe they should have MK open 24 hours during busy times.

 

[Toad_Passenger]

I'm not sure I would call it broken...but it's definitely not working as well as it once was. I still love the place, but I'm starting to see things happen I don't agree with or care for.

In terms of my entertainment dollar, however, I don't see it as being any different from anything else.

I'm a season ticket holder for a Professional Sports team and the team's profits keep soaring and my tickets get more expensive, but I can tell you the overall "fan experience" (not talking about team performance) has been in a steady decline.

Look at concerts and movie theaters. Can anyone honestly say, regardless of if you enjoyed the show, that it was worth the prices paid? Especially in light of the profits being gained?

This is not a Disney problem. Disney is doing exactly what it should to continued to be operational.

People can complain until their blue in the face, but the truth is that if I don't renew my tickets to the Sports team, there is a waiting list of people waiting to sit in my seats. If I choose not to go to Disney, there are literally 100's of thousands who will still go in my stead. If I don't want to pay to go see the Pop Group du Jour, someone else still will.

Crowds are a sign that the business is healthy.

ETA: Would I like everything to be perfect? Sure, but my alternative to NOT doing these things would be to sit in my house and stare at my walls all day, rather than going to the Stadium, or to the Magic Kingdom.

 

[WDW1979]

I've been to DW over 10 times in my 40+ years and the experience just gets worse each year. I really wanted to believe that each bad visit was just an anomaly...maybe bad luck, or the wrong time of year, but I've learned that it doesn't really matter when you go, the Disney Magic is long gone.

I like FP+, but beyond the limited number of FP+ reservations available per person per day, lines at Disney attractions are often very long througout much of the year. Getting to Disney at rope drop is now almost a must-do except at the slowest times of the year. And yes, making Disney restaurant reservations months ahead of time is necessary to get some of the restaurants you want at decent times, particularly for families like mine with parties of 5 (no tables for 2 or 4 for us). I find that FP+ adds some relaxation when the trip starts (no running around for paper Fastpasses), but a Disney trip requires much planning.

I love Disney World. I love how pretty and clean and wonderful are the theme parks. I love the resorts, especially Riverside. Some of the resorts are so nice that you almost don't need theme parks.

The Mine Coaster will be a great addition, but IMHO, Disney needs to:
- add 1 E-ticket attraction and 1 D-ticket attraction to Tomorrowland
- add 1 E-ticket attraction to Adventureland
- the above attractions should be high-capactity
- add lots of rides, a couple of countries, and another show to Epcot
- same as above for Hollywood Studios (except for adding "countries")
- add a non-character buffet to Magic Kingdom that does not cost families 100 bazillion dollars for a meal
- either replace the Stitch attraction in Tomorrowland or fill the Stitch attraction space with cement; either would be an improvement

With the annual price increases at Disney World above inflation each year for the last couple of decades, doing the above would improve the guest experience in terms of value for the guest's money.

A removal of the Stich attraction will increase the guest experience not by increasing capacity, but by removing a lame attraction that otherwise serves no purpose other than scaring the beejesus out of little children.

 

[ucfknight]

The biggest problem is, the only way to reduce crowds is to increase the price of the tickets. It really is a no win situation. If the price goes up, crowds go down, complaints on being priced out go up. Reduce the number of people allowed in the gate, crowds go down, complaints about not getting in go up. Keep the same, crowds go up. And so on.

The single day ticket price increases at Walt Disney World have far outpaced inflation. Yet the multi-day tickets have actually become cheaper. This has resulted in an increase in attendance despite the massive increase in single day pricing.

Just look at the gate prices between 10 years ago and today:

January 2004:
1 day ticket - $52 ($64 in 2014 dollars)
7 day ticket - $329 ($406 in 2014 dollars)


January 2014:
1 day ticket - $95 (83% increase from 2004, 48% increase accounting for inflation if both prices were in 2014 dollars )
7 day ticket - $309 (6% DECREASE from 2004, 24% DECREASE accounting for inflation if both prices were in 2014 dollars)


It is clear that Disney has adjusted their pricing to discourage people from coming for just one day and to encourage people to buy multi-day tickets. Every day past day 4 only costs an additional $10. This encourages guests to buy as many days as possible to get the best value. This "locks in" the guest to the Disney parks, which means they are going to buy more food and t-shirts. And those are the real money makers.

As a publicly traded company, the primary goal of all decisions is "how to boost profits to keep investors happy". The way you do that is locking in guests so they buy your high profit items.

Disney's overall strategy in ticket pricing, Magical Express, institution of 14 day expiration dates to base tickets, and the whole MyMagic+ experience is designed to increase that lock-in rate. With this locking in of guests comes an increase in attendance since now people who might have been in the parks for 3 or 4 days of their week long vacation are now locked in for 7 days.

 

[Maleficent Dragon]

I do agree there is an imbalance when it comes to rooms vs parks. There are many places to stay and not enough places to play. I do love Disney World, but it is losing its charm a bit. Even the Fantasyland expansion is somewhat of a joke. Two new rides; one of which has been being built for years. Ridiculous.

 

[johde]

I agree with many points OP. In fact, I often wonder what people who aren't on this board or similar ones do. If it wasn't for all the tips I've seen here our previous trips would have been pretty disappointing. It's only due to meticulous planning that people can get anywhere close to experiencing the stuff you see in commercials.

Universal, Six Flags in NJ, Cedar Point in Ohio are parks we've visited that have the extra charge FPs and this seems to work.

"Works" is definitely in the eye of the beholder. The pay systems are a huge balancing act. Ideally you want to generate a sufficiently large quantity of revenue from a relatively small group of customers, relative to the extra time you are making the majority of your customers wait.

If you sell too many "line skipping" passes, (Express pass, q-bot,Quick Queue, etc). The "line skipping" line slows down and the standby line slows down. On another message board, people have accused Six Flags of getting greedy and running ride at less than full capacity to artificially create long lines to create demand for their q-bots.

At Universal, the new Cabana Bay Beach Resort is not going to get Unlimited Express Pass.

Let's face it. Everyone wants, all at the same time;

1. Room discounts.
2. Free dining.
3. Discounted tickets.
4. Low crowds/no lines.

It's just not realistic to believe all this will happen. Disney has built a world-class theme park/resort complex for the purpose of attracting people and thus making money. What is happening is exactly what needs to happen for the corporation and its products to be sustainable. They are trying to help the situation with FP+. Whether it works in its current form is for the corporation to decide. If you wish to vacation elsewhere, that is your decision to make. As for our family, we are going to give this a chance.

You forgot
5. Mind blowing state of the art new attractions every year.

I have not enjoyed the extra work and planning it has taken to get both ADRs and FP+ that's for sure. And MDE is a giant pain with it constantly screwing up, showing ghost FP+ and the like so that is extremely annoying.

Also I think this is an excellent point:
"But if you look at the entire package, the thrill rides, the family rides, the shows, then there is more than enough in all the parks to fill the day. Personally, I think amusement parks are better geared to the thrill faction than theme parks are, because their focus IS on thrill rides and not necessarily the overall experience of the park."

I live in Ohio and we have two amusement parks, well actually 3 b/c I live near WV/PA as well within driving distance: Cedar Point, Kings Island and Kennywood
None of them compare to WDW when it comes to the OVERALL EXPERIENCE. Now thrill rides/other rides - even Kennywood almost blows WDW away but the entire experience, no way. If I take a break at one of those parks, I sit on a bench and stare at a giant ride, trash on the ground, or one giant metal attraction after another. I will say Kennywood is the nicest of the three parks in terms of "prettiness" but it still doesn't come close to WDW. No way. There is no comparison. I can take a break at MK by watching Philharmagic or Monsters Inc. At AK, I can watch Bug's Life, DHS - Beauty and the Beast show, and Epcot there's always Ellen, LOL! Those things just aren't at these other amusement parks. Well there are a few shows here and there that generally stink or that you don't have time for because you spend about an hour waiting in a neverending line to ride coaster after coaster after coaster. Also the tickets for these parks are not cheap:
Cedar Point - one day $50 adult/$35 junior or $88 for two day ride & slide adult/$53 junior
Kings Island - $41/$37 one day; two days $58
Kennywood - $34/$28 one day
I realize these are cheaper than 1 day at WDW but I still wouldn't call them cheap.

I live in central Ohio, and while I love Cedar Point, and Kings Island, Busch Gardens Tampa at times hits all the right notes for me at times better even than Disney. You've got the real thrill rides like a Cedar Point or Kings Island. Before they closed it Katanga was one of the better shows in a theme park/ amusement park. You have the animals. It's not over the top in any one area like Cedar Point or Disney or Universal but a solid jack of all trades.