Disney will NEVER build a Villains themed fifth gate!!

[tjkraz]

As much as I LOVE the idea of a Dark Kingdom, it just wouldn't make sense as a fifth gate. If Disney announced this new park today, it would still be YEARS away from opening. Not to mention this new love of villains could easily turn the other way before the park is even complete!

I agree. Advocates of the idea usually point out that Disney doesn't have as many attractions to appeal to the teen and young adult crowd. At least, not in comparison to the Universal parks who have far more thrill rides.

But the villains theme itself is very polarizing. Many teens and adults would be turned-off by the mere concept, not to mention the families and young children who would be terrified to simply enter its gates.

It's just not an idea with tremendous upside. If Disney wanted to better cater to the teens and young adults, they could couple thrilling attractions with a more universally-appealing theme.

 

[rteetz]

Let me clarify.

What do you think is going to change about society, the economy or any other relevant criteria in order to justify another park in 20 years?

Sure there are plenty of ideas for a park. But workers aren't gaining more vacation time or disposable income. In fact, Disney prices are have been steadily rising at a rate much greater than inflation. A 5th park isn't going to increase time or money spent at WDW...it would simply redistribute those dollars to include another costly destination.

We can certainly debate Iger's stinginess toward the theme parks but adding yet ANOTHER park makes absolutely no sense at all. And I really don't see how 10 or 20 or 50 years is going to dramatically change that situation.

Speaking as someone who enjoys the Disney parks, it's fun to think there may be another destination someday. But from a financial perspective, I just don't see how some arbitrary passage of time is going to dramatically alter thinking on that topic.

I'm not saying it would make sense either, there are a lot of things disney does that doesn't make sense but it ends up working out in the end. Now I will ask this question will Universal build a third gate? Maybe the next gate for disney is something else like a water park? We aren't on top we don't make those decisions. If disney finds it feasible to build another park they will. When They built DHS it was because universal was coming to town and they wanted a studios park to compete. Disney started after universal and finished building before they did. When Animal kingdom was built was there a greater need for another park no, is there ever a great need for another park, no. Right now all disney is worried about is their way over budget mymagic+, why do you think no expansion has been announced for DHS or Epcot. We are lucky avatar is happening because that was announced before mymagic+, it very well may have been cancelled otherwise. Also right now disney is focused over seas where they can make more millions. Again whose to say in 20-30 years the US economy will be thriving and Disney finds it in their best interest to build another park. We don't know unless we're time travelers. I'm not saying it will happen but I am also not saying it won't.

 

[rteetz]

Yeah...I would add that ONLY if(for whatever reason) the three non-MK parks are able to add millions of annual guests there will be no fifth gate. These parks are extremely expensive to operate and maintain and the three non-MK parks aren't anywhere near capacity.

DHS can probably hold a max of about 12 million in a year and they are just over 10. Yes these parks are expensive to operate but disney makes enough to to that. Universal parks are very similar to DHS because they are close in size, the only difference is DHS has much less attractions than the universal parks. If Disney were to expand DHS especially backlot area they could really open up the park and increase capacity extremely, right now Disney isn't going to do anything.

 

[rteetz]

Even the idea of "capacity" is a fluid notion. Despite the Magic Kingdom drawing 16 million per year, they can always build new attractions, restaurants and bathrooms. Bottlenecks like Main Street can be overcome with new back alley walkways to accommodate more people.

Yes, there are some physical barriers which would be difficult to overcome. Epcot could not easily expand to the west because of Beach Club and BoardWalk. Hollywood Studios has some wetlands to one side, if memory serves.

But there are far more instances where land is available to expand the parks if capacity dictates. Not every option is inexpensive but still far less costly than breaking ground on an entirely new gate.

MK is drawing close to 18 million if not more according to recent numbers.
They have been working on the backstage flow areas for this reason. MK has plenty of room to expand and add new things.

Epcot has space to build about 8 new countries if they wanted to. They also have a lot of empty not used things in future world. Lots of potential there.

DHS does have a lot of room as well, they would just need to move a road or two and that park could be great once again.

 

[rteetz]

I absolutely agree. The other three parks are where they need to be developing new and exciting properties.

MK is already a mess why do you think they are expanding the HUB.

AK is getting avatar a much needed expansion, a night time show, they have harambe nights which has been a huge success, and a few new shows throughout the park.

Epcot nothing right now

DHS will eventually get its much needed attention but its on hold right now. The first step was American idol closing because the contract ended. Frozen is also coming with a show and M&G soon to.

 

[PrincessUnicorn]

I think a villian park would be very successful if it was given the same creative thought and budget of other parks. They can tap into virtually every disney movie ever made. Personally, I would like to see this more as a land as apposed to a whole park (like cars land), but I am not going to say that is would be impossible and would never happen.

I would love to see a Villain land/area. The villain's are my favourite part!

 

[tjkraz]

Again whose to say in 20-30 years the US economy will be thriving and Disney finds it in their best interest to build another park. We don't know unless we're time travelers. I'm not saying it will happen but I am also not saying it won't.

Well, actually you did say it would happen. That's what prompted my reply.

"I'm sure WDW will get [a fifth park] it's just it probably won't be for another 15-20 years."

I do agree that there are many uncertainties. That's why I would personally recommend caution rather than adopting a stance of "I'm sure it will happen."

That said, comparing the construction of a 5th park at a resort which already has four is not particularly relevant to adding a 3rd park when only two exist. With two parks, you can still favorably increase guests' length-of-stay with that 3rd gate. Would a 5th park make guests stay longer at WDW? Doubtful.

 

[rteetz]

Well, actually you did say it would happen. That's what prompted my reply.

"I'm sure WDW will get [a fifth park] it's just it probably won't be for another 15-20 years."

I do agree that there are many uncertainties. That's why I would personally recommend caution rather than adopting a stance of "I'm sure it will happen."

That said, comparing the construction of a 5th park at a resort which already has four is not particularly relevant to adding a 3rd park when only two exist. With two parks, you can still favorably increase guests' length-of-stay with that 3rd gate. Would a 5th park make guests stay longer at WDW? Doubtful.

I was saying in my opinion that I think it will happen in the future. I did not say fact disney is adding another park in 15-20 years.

As for Universal adding a park I was just asking which do you think will happen first, not which will get you to stay longer. Many believe WDW will be first toadying another park before universal. Many also believe the other way around. If WDW adds a park I can see people adding a day to there plans same with Universal another day. so 6-7 maybe even 8 days at disney vs staying at universal for 3 maybe 4 days.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Would a 5th park make guests stay longer at WDW? Doubtful.

I agree that it is doubtful. Most people can only take a week off for a family vacation(including myself) so WDW already can easily fill that week as it is.

What they *need* to do is make the three non-MK parks a much bigger draw and that can only happen with large investments. AK and Avatar is a great start. DHS and Epcot need that same level of expansion/investment. If not, more people will shorten their time at WDW to spend extra days at Universal.

 

[tjkraz]

What they *need* to do is make the three non-MK parks a much bigger draw and that can only happen with large investments. AK and Avatar is a great start. DHS and Epcot need that same level of expansion/investment. If not, more people will shorten their time at WDW to spend extra days at Universal.

Agree. Although I do wonder what Disney has to lose vs. gain in that regard. As a regular WDW guest, I can't justify the added cost to visit Universal. Two extra nights on MYW ticket are maybe $30 per person...perhaps less on an AP.

Meanwhile 2-day Park Hoppers for Universal are nearly $200 per person. More if you stay in one of their hotels or buy the FOTL pass.

Then you have to consider transportation to Universal, ease of DME and Disney transport when sticking to WDW, extra magic hours, MagicBands, FP+ ride reservations, etc.

Financially it's very difficult to justify that 2-3 day diversion to Universal...especially for a family of 4 or 5. Could easily be $1000 more than just staying at Disney those extra days.

 

[jrtoastyman]

I know that Disney is having a Villains Party and it's sold out. But- that doesn't make it a good idea or warrant for a Disney fifth gate. Disney doesn't have any Villain rides so what makes folks think there is a chance for an entire Villain park or even a land. Disney's Dark Kingdom may be fun for a couple of folks to dream and talk about and hype up but it's not gonna happen!!!!

I think the fact that a 5th gate isn't coming has less to do with the subject matter or theme, and everything to do with the fact that people aren't going to extend their vacations to go to another Disney park, they'll just split up their time differently. No financial incentive, at least not right now, to add another park.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Agree. Although I do wonder what Disney has to lose vs. gain in that regard. As a regular WDW guest, I can't justify the added cost to visit Universal. Two extra nights on MYW ticket are maybe $30 per person...perhaps less on an AP.

Meanwhile 2-day Park Hoppers for Universal are nearly $200 per person. More if you stay in one of their hotels or buy the FOTL pass.

Then you have to consider transportation to Universal, ease of DME and Disney transport when sticking to WDW, extra magic hours, MagicBands, FP+ ride reservations, etc.

Financially it's very difficult to justify that 2-3 day diversion to Universal...especially for a family of 4 or 5. Could easily be $1000 more than just staying at Disney those extra days.

tjkraz...I absolutely agree. Personally, I *still* have no desire to venture over to Universal during our limited 7-8 day vacation...but I seem to be in the minority.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I think the fact that a 5th gate isn't coming has less to do with the subject matter or theme, and everything to do with the fact that people aren't going to extend their vacations to go to another Disney park, they'll just split up their time differently. No financial incentive, at least not right now, to add another park.

Bingo!

It's up to Disney to make sure that they provide enough incentive for guests to make their full one-week vacation totally at WDW.

The only way to do *that* is intensive investment /upgrades in the three non-MK parks. If they do that they will still do fantastic for decades! Keep investing in the water-parks and it's a slam-dunk.

They have the land advantage in spades. If DHS and Epcot get the same attention that AK is getting *now* there is no problem in keeping guests there for their whole vacation.

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

Agree. Although I do wonder what Disney has to lose vs. gain in that regard. As a regular WDW guest, I can't justify the added cost to visit Universal. Two extra nights on MYW ticket are maybe $30 per person...perhaps less on an AP.

Meanwhile 2-day Park Hoppers for Universal are nearly $200 per person. More if you stay in one of their hotels or buy the FOTL pass.

Then you have to consider transportation to Universal, ease of DME and Disney transport when sticking to WDW, extra magic hours, MagicBands, FP+ ride reservations, etc.

Financially it's very difficult to justify that 2-3 day diversion to Universal...especially for a family of 4 or 5. Could easily be $1000 more than just staying at Disney those extra days.

We've even discussed a split-stay at WDW and always end up not wanting to fuss with it. We love staying at the same resort(which is almost always one we haven't stayed at before) and creating a specific/distinctive memory for every vacation.

 

[beer dave]

tjkraz...I absolutely agree. Personally, I *still* have no desire to venture over to Universal during our limited 7-8 day vacation...but I seem to be in the minority.

I don't think you are in the minority-- maybe just the vocal minority.

 

[The Batgirl]

I feel like whenever there's a persistent rumor, it usually doesn't come to fruition. Sometimes even announced/planned things don't work out - I have an Epcot book that talks about Equatorial Africa and Israel in the World Showcase. (I hope Avatarland goes by the wayside, too, but that's neither here nor there). If and when Disney builds another Florida park, I'd be shocked if it were so narrowly themed. I mean, they don't even make rides that feature villains TOO much for fear of scaring little ones.
I'd also be shocked if they built a 5th park anytime soon. There is so much they need to do to rehab Hollywood Studios. Not to mention what they could do to fix Future World in Epcot *COUGH BRING BACK DREAMFINDER WITH FIGMENT COUGH*

 

[OnSpaceshipEarth]

I don't think you are in the minority-- maybe just the vocal minority.

That still makes me a member of the minority.

Just sayin'.

 

[Kimosabe]

(I hope Avatarland goes by the wayside, too, but that's neither here nor there).

Not to veer this conversation away from a 5th gate, but curious why you are hoping the worst for Avatarland. (Obviously you're not the only one saying that.) I'll be the first to admit that it would have been nice to stay within the Disney stories or find some original content, but I'm simply happy that they're doing something at DAK on the scale that it seems they are. The concept art looks pretty incredible (if it all comes to fruition), and the Avatar storyline is very consistent with the overall DAK conservation theme. In general, I'm looking at it from the approach that something is finally being added there, and it looks really cool, regardless of a movie overlay, so if Avatar is laid over it, then so be it and I don't see it hurting the project...at least something big is coming that, to me, will vastly improve my opinion of DAK and, along with the nighttime show, will make me want to stay there all day and into the night.

Certainly seems like the original concept of Beastly Kingdom in that area wouldn't have cost any more than the Avatar stuff, so I'm with you in not really understanding why they felt the need to marry themselves to an outside movie, but I guess that's what Uni did with Potter, and it seems to be working out pretty well for them. OK, 7 books/8 movies vs. 1 movie so far, but I'm hoping Disney has been given some insight into the Avatar sequels and feels like it will be a homerun. Time will tell.

 

[ks13]

Not to veer this conversation away from a 5th gate, but curious why you are hoping the worst for Avatarland. (Obviously you're not the only one saying that.) I'll be the first to admit that it would have been nice to stay within the Disney stories or find some original content, but I'm simply happy that they're doing something at DAK on the scale that it seems they are. The concept art looks pretty incredible (if it all comes to fruition), and the Avatar storyline is very consistent with the overall DAK conservation theme. In general, I'm looking at it from the approach that something is finally being added there, and it looks really cool, regardless of a movie overlay, so if Avatar is laid over it, then so be it and I don't see it hurting the project...at least something big is coming that, to me, will vastly improve my opinion of DAK and, along with the nighttime show, will make me want to stay there all day and into the night.

Certainly seems like the original concept of Beastly Kingdom in that area wouldn't have cost any more than the Avatar stuff, so I'm with you in not really understanding why they felt the need to marry themselves to an outside movie, but I guess that's what Uni did with Potter, and it seems to be working out pretty well for them. OK, 7 books/8 movies vs. 1 movie so far, but I'm hoping Disney has been given some insight into the Avatar sequels and feels like it will be a homerun. Time will tell.

I still think beastly Kingdom should have happened, there is a dragon on the sign after all. I think most people me included who are against Avatar land think it is a boring idea. Yeah the concept art looks awesome but Disney has already scaled it back.

 

[rteetz]

I still think beastly Kingdom should have happened, there is a dragon on the sign after all. I think most people me included who are against Avatar land think it is a boring idea. Yeah the concept art looks awesome but Disney has already scaled it back.

There is no confirmation whatsoever that Disney has scaled back anything. James Cameron in every interview in the last few months have said many cool and exciting things coming. Yes avatar wasn't the best movie of all time but it's a great movie for a theme park. Beastly kingdom should've could've would've happened but it didn't it's time for something different I'm excited because it's something new and different.