Disney will find a way to make a Marvel 5th gate

[lockedoutlogic]

WDW can not do certain things on the east coast due to contract.

That is why any theme park attractions concerning the Avengers will be done on the West coast or overseas...

from the Q2 2012 WDC earnings call

thank you,

there is is...in writing...no superheroes in WDW

 

[MATTinNH]

I am well aware of the contract, thats why when I started this thread, it was about how I believed they would "find a way". Theres always a way out ...it might take time, it might be expensive, but there is always a way. This was all just based on my opinion that they would find it worth while enough to pusue that way out.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I am well aware of the contract, thats why when I started this thread, it was about how I believed they would "find a way". Theres always a way out ...it might take time, it might be expensive, but there is always a way. This was all just based on my opinion that they would find it worth while enough to pusue that way out.

Ehhhh......still gonna go with "No"


I'm satisfied with the Starbucks deal...more than I expected Disney to do this year

 

[fannatic]

With Disney, there's always a way. In this case it's to wait for the contract to end.

 

[ChrisFL]

With Disney, there's always a way. In this case it's to wait for the contract to end.

which is funny, because it doesn't expire

 

[k5jm]

Disney could not get Oswald the lucky rabbit until they traded Al Michaels to NBC/UNIVERSAL. Who said contracts are not forever? Um, Marriage? Divorce is always costly.

 

[ChrisFL]

The problem is that almost everyone is over-estimating Disney's desire to open Marvel attractions at WDW.

Disney has 4 other resorts to worry about: Anaheim, Paris, Hong Kong and Shanghai (Tokyo doesn't really count)

Plus, let's all take a deep breath and realize....Disney DIDN'T buy Marvel for the theme park rights. They bought it for the movie ticket sales, DVD and Blu-Ray sales and merchandise.

Of course, they will have plans to develop attractions...because practically EVERY Disney franchise had been through WDI's thought processes on making an attraction. 90% of them don't ever happen.

I won't be surprised at all if we see a Marvel attraction open in Shanghai, and Disney Studios Paris, but beyond that, I think everyone has their spiderman underoos in a twist for something that isn't happening at WDW.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

The problem is that almost everyone is over-estimating Disney's desire to open Marvel attractions at WDW.

Disney has 4 other resorts to worry about: Anaheim, Paris, Hong Kong and Shanghai (Tokyo doesn't really count)

Plus, let's all take a deep breath and realize....Disney DIDN'T buy Marvel for the theme park rights. They bought it for the movie ticket sales, DVD and Blu-Ray sales and merchandise.

Of course, they will have plans to develop attractions...because practically EVERY Disney franchise had been through WDI's thought processes on making an attraction. 90% of them don't ever happen.

I won't be surprised at all if we see a Marvel attraction open in Shanghai, and Disney Studios Paris, but beyond that, I think everyone has their spiderman underoos in a twist for something that isn't happening at WDW.

Here Here aka Exactly aka this is exactly what's happening.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Here Here aka Exactly aka this is exactly what's happening.

x2

 

[tjkraz]

Yes, licensed character agreements do have to have an expiration date, but whatever.

It depends upon the deal. There are many different types of licensing agreements. A company that wants to make Spider-Man t-shirts or plastic web slingers will certainly enter into an agreement with a finite beginning and end date. If the parties can't come to terms on a renewal, the manufacturer re-tools his plants and starts printing different tees and other plastic junk.

Theme parks are completely different. We're talking about hundreds-of-millions of dollars invested by Universal. They have spent years building up a brand which includes Spider-Man and other Marvel characters in their stable.

All Marvel / Disney has done is cash the paychecks. The RISK is almost entirely assumed by Universal, thus many contract terms will be structured to work in their favor.

Every article about this deal written by a reputable source confirms that the licensing agreement is essentially perpetual. I'm really not sure why you insist on arguing this point.

Why wouldn't Iger debunk the myth?- Universal lawyers.

As the Chairman of The Walt Disney Company, it's well within Iger's rights to comment on deals the company has in place. In fact, when answering to investors and shareholders, he has the obligation to accurately report on the company's business dealings.

I wouldn't expect him to give us chapter and verse on the financial terms of the deal, but Universal's lawyers can't stop him from naming a contract end date.

Of course that will never happen since and end date does not exist.

 

[MATTinNH]

Well, here is what we do know, Iger said there is something coming soon. to a couple parks. I'm sure its nothing huge probably meet and greet and something along the lines of the new Capt Jack attraction going into DHS , and Im sure its Cali and probably Paris. I dont think they will go further than that with parks out side WDW. If they do any major attractions, a land , or a park its in WDW. As unbelievably well as these films did over sea's, I dont see Capt America and Company finding their home or major attractions in Paris, China , or Japan. Cali is the closest non WDW landing spot.... but no room there.

If these Movies continue to draw and sell merch at this pace....WDW is the place.

 

[Figment632]

Well, here is what we do know, Iger said there is something coming soon. to a couple parks. I'm sure its nothing huge probably meet and greet and something along the lines of the new Capt Jack attraction going into DHS , and Im sure its Cali and probably Paris. I dont think they will go further than that with parks out side WDW. If they do any major attractions, a land , or a park its in WDW. As unbelievably well as these films did over sea's, I dont see Capt America and Company finding their home or major attractions in Paris, China , or Japan. Cali is the closest non WDW landing spot.... but no room there.

If these Movies continue to draw and sell merch at this pace....WDW is the place.

Plenty of land for a 3rd fate in DL it would be a little smaller than DCA.

 

[Polydweller]

With Disney, there's always a way. In this case it's to wait for the contract to end.

There are only two ways this contract can end.

First, Universal stops using a Marvel character that it already has in place. As soon as it does that they can no longer use it.

Two, Universal does not follow the usage terms of a character to the letter. Then you could expect the Disney lawyers to do something. So there is a termination point.

There is no end date in the contract, those are the only ways. Contracts often have end dates for practical reasons but there is absolutely no legal requirement to have one. In fact, I have signed a couple and they can be mutually beneficial. In our case, the landowner (municipal) doesn't lose ownership but also doesn't have to maintain the land and we get to build and operate a hotel on the land. There are terms for reverting ownership when we don't want it and terms we must live to or lose it but it otherwise the contract is perpetual.

Think of the Marvel/Universal deal as mutually beneficial. Marvel retains ownership, gets licensing fees and Universal's use advertises and promotes the brand. For Universal, they get known characters with wide appeal to sell their theme park and make lots of money. And, as noted above there are terms for reverting the character rights when Universal doen't want them. Otherwise perpetual use.

 

[DanBoris]

There are only two ways this contract can end.

First, Universal stops using a Marvel character that it already has in place. As soon as it does that they can no longer use it.

Two, Universal does not follow the usage terms of a character to the letter. Then you could expect the Disney lawyers to do something. So there is a termination point.

.

... and even if Universal did something wrong in the use of the characters, according to the contract they would have to be given the chance to correct it before the contract would be terminated.

 

[tjkraz]

Plenty of land for a 3rd fate in DL it would be a little smaller than DCA.

Agree. Disney did purchase additional land in Anaheim which is earmarked for a 3rd park long-term. However that land is currently being used--and needed--for guest parking. The first domino to fall would be increasing the size of the current parking structure. Until we see movement on that project, there's really no sense hoping for the 3rd park.

There are only two ways this contract can end.

First, Universal stops using a Marvel character that it already has in place. As soon as it does that they can no longer use it.

I thought it was the other way around: All characters that US introduced at the contract's inception are theirs for the duration.

Regardless, it's pretty easy for them to maintain the current character presence.

Two, Universal does not follow the usage terms of a character to the letter. Then you could expect the Disney lawyers to do something. So there is a termination point.

Agree. Of course, Disney has to give them opportunity to correct any perceived mis-steps. And even if it goes to litigation, there's absolutely no guarantee that Disney would emerge victorious. The courts could simply rule that US needs to correct the infractions, spend more on maintenance, etc.

As to the licensing agreement itself, it's worth noting that the comic industry was in free-fall around 1999-2000 when this deal was reached. Sales had dropped from roughly $850 million per year around '93 / '94 to $200-250 million.

Marvel was an independent company at that time. They didn't have the backing of a huge parent like DC does with Warner Bros. And there was certainly no TWDC behind them.

To be able to lock-in a long term licensing deal with Universal for theme park rights was a huge coup. Marvel received a steady stream of income, guaranteed advertising dollars for its publications, media exposure via the Spider-Man appearances in US ads, guaranteed merchandise placement and revenue from that.

To Universal, the risk was the possibility that the comic industry would continue to shrink and these characters would become old news. 12 years ago NOBODY would have predicted that The Avengers would one day earn the largest 3-day box office totals ever.

Disney could eventually try to reclaim the rights but it takes two to tango. Universal could set whatever fee they wish--$250 mil, $500 mil--the sky is the limit. Unless Disney has something of similar value that Universal wants, it could be a very difficult negotiation with Universal holding all the cards.

One interesting solution could involve Disney trying to reclaim rights to The Avengers characters ONLY. The greatest presence at Marvel Island appears to be Spider-Man, X-Men and Fantastic Four. Change The Hulk coaster over to The Thing (or Silver Surfer, or something similar), eliminate the Capt America walk around and the transition is 90% complete.

But that is purely speculation and it all depends upon Disney's willingness, Universal's willingness and the demands each party would make of the other.

 

[chartle]

As to the licensing agreement itself, it's worth noting that the comic industry was in free-fall around 1999-2000 when this deal was reached. Sales had dropped from roughly $850 million per year around '93 / '94 to $200-250 million.

Marvel was an independent company at that time. They didn't have the backing of a huge parent like DC does with Warner Bros. And there was certainly no TWDC behind them.

To be able to lock-in a long term licensing deal with Universal for theme park rights was a huge coup. Marvel received a steady stream of income, guaranteed advertising dollars for its publications, media exposure via the Spider-Man appearances in US ads, guaranteed merchandise placement and revenue from that.

To Universal, the risk was the possibility that the comic industry would continue to shrink and these characters would become old news. 12 years ago NOBODY would have predicted that The Avengers would one day earn the largest 3-day box office totals ever.

When Disney bought Marvel I do remember that it was posted that at the time the Marvel/US deal was done Marvel was pretty much approaching this deal Hat in Hand. Same with Sony. Marvel had very little negotiating leverage and were trying to keep the lights on.

But Disney knew this going in. This only reinforces the notion that Disney didn't really want Marvel for the theme parks. They are not going to ignore them but its not the main reason for the purchase.

 

[Metro West]

But Disney knew this going in. This only reinforces the notion that Disney didn't really want Marvel for the theme parks. They are not going to ignore them but its not the main reason for the purchase.

Yup and that seems to be the main thing that people are overlooking. Disney didn't buy Marvel for theme park attractions but rather for the film and distribution rights.

 

[ASteelersMidget]

^Don't forget so that they had something to market to boys other than Pirates of the Caribbean. Marvel is just what they needed, a way to make money off boys.

 

[mbrittb00]

One thing Disney definitively needs to do is find a way to market their parks to the 13-18 crowd, especially boys. US IoA is killing them in that market. Unless I am missing something It has been 6 years (EE, 4/7/2006) since they opened a "new" attraction. maybe that means they are building up $$ to create a new park that will appeal more to the 13-18 crowd.

 

[chartle]

One thing Disney definitively needs to do is find a way to market their parks to the 13-18 crowd, especially boys. US IoA is killing them in that market. Unless I am missing something It has been 6 years (EE, 4/7/2006) since they opened a "new" attraction. maybe that means they are building up $$ to create a new park that will appeal more to the 13-18 crowd.

They really don't need to that 13-18 market. Also it takes boat loads of money (read multi million dollar trill rides, with new ones every year) to get that small market share. It may not be worth it.

As long the we don't have a shortage of Parents buying overpriced princess dresses and the like Disney will do OK.

Oh and I don't think this as been posted but there will most likely never be a 5th gate in Florida. No matter if its Marvel, Beastly Kingdom, Smurfs or all the other rumors. The market can't support it. Much bigger returns to do it overseas and use other people's money.