Disney will find a way to make a Marvel 5th gate

It is unlikely for Universal to want to get out of the Marvel business.

And if they did, it is even more unlikely for Disney to build a 5th gate in Florida anytime soon.

However, if they could find a way to do it, I could see a Marvel themed land in DHS...however again right now not possible.
 
And that may be reason-enough for Universal to eventually exit the Marvel business -- they're paying a rival royalties to license their characters.

As long as Universal thinks they are making money they don't care who they pay, its just business.

I have read of weirder collaborations or attempted collaborations. In WWI England needed rifle scopes, the best scopes came from Germany. England tried to broker a deal through Switzerland where if Germany supplied England with scopes, England would give them rubber.
 
Not that I think a "Marvel Universe" 5th gate is going to happen, but the one thing we do not know is if there is some kind of escape clause in the Marvel/Universal contract. It all boils down to dollars. The easiest way for Disney to get a 5th and 6th gate is to buy Comcast's interest in Universal. Does Comcast want to stay in the Theme Park business? Comcast seems deep into licensing of other people's properties via the Universal acquisition and along with the licensing, we do not know what other obligations (advertising, promotion, funding...) they are committed to by those agreements. Does Comcast want to keep going down that road?
 
Not that I think a "Marvel Universe" 5th gate is going to happen, but the one thing we do not know is if there is some kind of escape clause in the Marvel/Universal contract. It all boils down to dollars. The easiest way for Disney to get a 5th and 6th gate is to buy Comcast's interest in Universal. Does Comcast want to stay in the Theme Park business? Comcast seems deep into licensing of other people's properties via the Universal acquisition and along with the licensing, we do not know what other obligations (advertising, promotion, funding...) they are committed to by those agreements. Does Comcast want to keep going down that road?

I could see Comcast keeping them. Comcast is entertainment so theme parks still fit.

Its not like InBev and Bush Gardens. Everyone pretty much knew as soon as it was announced that the parks would be sold. In fact I'm pretty sure it was part of the announcement. Beverages and theme parks are not a good fit.
 

And that may be reason-enough for Universal to eventually exit the Marvel business -- they're paying a rival royalties to license their characters.

Misconception of the highest order. The monetary figures in orlando prove the same point over and over again....there are no "competitors" or "rivals" in orlando for themepark dollars.
They feed each other...they always have. Universal and Seaworld make more money being down the street form WDW...and vice versa.
Even when universal "Scores" and builds WWOHP...disney still made more money off the throng off the influx.
Especially disney...but the others to a lesser extent. Most people, still, come and go "everywhere" not just to one operators parks.
The exception is the disney-only crowd...which is due to size and repurtation more than anything.

The fact is that universal has made billions off of being the little brother in orlando...and therefore a cut of the merch and IOA is not even worth arguing about to them in the grand scale.


"If" it were to happen, I wouldn't anticipate a 5th gate (especially in this shaky economy, and also given the fact that Disney's current big thing is making sure DCA is successful). A more likely scenario is an expansion of DHS, if that's possible.

That would make the most sense...especially since comic book based movies are becoming more and more frequent and likely to continue.
But the fact is that for some reason they like MGM small (i have a guess on that...) and they don't want to flesh this puppy out.

It's been open for 23 years.


Ah, but Universal was recently purchased (by Comcast, who is the new majority owner of NBC Universal)-- not sure what long-term plans Comcast has in store for the theme park business...

But disney also just signed a longterm content deal with Comcast...aka the foxes are in everybody else's henhouse

Also, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this -- Six Flags (the current licensee of all theme park attractions related to Batman, Superman, and the rest of the DC Universe) hasn't been doing all that well in recent years -- what if they begin closing more parks (or don't renew those "super" contracts) -- that would be an instant win for whoever scoops-up those characters and does right by them.

Again, comic book based amusements are not really compatible with Disney's "mainstream" park entertainment.
they don't want a "boy side" and a "girl side" of the park.

their 10 year obsession with pirates and princesses is probably as far as you'll see them go...and in someways that is ill-advised.

I dont' see the "X-Coaster" or "Silver Surfer aquasoaker" ever fitting a longterm plan for disney parks.

Something else to consider, the DC characters are owned by Time Warner, who also owns the film rights to the "Harry Potter" franchise (through Warner Bros.), so seeing Supes and company land at Universal might not be that big of a stretch...

Something to think-about...

perhaps...but even though the amusement park companies are always being sold/underperforming...they always seem to hold on to the licensing deals.

Its probably a necessary evil for them. They know that superheros will always have a boy market...and that some studio is planning the next reincarnation of superman, batman, spiderman, etc at all times.

I wouldnt look at a dumping of DC by Six Flags anytime soon.
 
I could see Comcast keeping them. Comcast is entertainment so theme parks still fit.

Its not like InBev and Bush Gardens. Everyone pretty much knew as soon as it was announced that the parks would be sold. In fact I'm pretty sure it was part of the announcement. Beverages and theme parks are not a good fit.

it seems to be a good fit when i'm numb walking around world showcase:woohoo:
 
Its not like InBev and Bush Gardens. Everyone pretty much knew as soon as it was announced that the parks would be sold. In fact I'm pretty sure it was part of the announcement. Beverages and theme parks are not a good fit.

That doesn't make any sense. Before InBev bought them out, Anheuser-Busch CREATED Busch Gardens, and they're a (mostly alcoholic) beverage company.
 
That doesn't make any sense. Before InBev bought them out, Anheuser-Busch CREATED Busch Gardens, and they're a (mostly alcoholic) beverage company.

Yes they did, but it was more of something that grew kind of organically at AB.

It was at first a real Garden like Cyrus Gardens they then started to add rides and made it a tourist destination. I'm sure at some point someone internally thought why is a beer company running an amusement park but it was done they had them and they kept adding them.

InBev from the start said they did not want to own amusement parks. If it was the other way around, I'm sure AB would have also sold them. Today's business climate is a world away from when those parks where built.

A lot of companies buy or develop businesses they eventually get out of. Pespi at one time owned Taco bell, Pizza Hut, KFC and some other chains, but decided that wasn't part of their core business.
 
Also, I'm surprised no one has mentioned this -- Six Flags (the current licensee of all theme park attractions related to Batman, Superman, and the rest of the DC Universe) hasn't been doing all that well in recent years -- what if they begin closing more parks (or don't renew those "super" contracts) -- that would be an instant win for whoever scoops-up those characters and does right by them.

Aside from Batman, DC is a bit of a wasteland. The last superman reboot was a bit of a bomb, maybe the next one will work, but I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
Aside from Batman, DC is a bit of a wasteland. The last superman reboot was a bit of a bomb, maybe the next one will work, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Plus, they dont really intergrate the characters like marvel does or Uni does with Potter. The basically just slap a batman picture on a coaster.
 
The Transformers ride may have been in the works before Disney bought Marvel, but you can bet it was adapted for a Marvel out. It just opened this year. Even if they had a perpetual contract, which they don't, many believe the royalties will get so high that it won't make since for Universal to keep Marvel. By the way, the only way they would have a perpetual contract is if they bought Marvel from Disney.:)
 
Bob Iger confirmed yesterday that Avengers attractions are being planned for multiple parks. If these are a hit, we are getting closer to a Marvel fifth gate, or maybe as many of you have stated a revamp/expansion in DHS, maybe similar to size and scope of Fantasy Land Expansion. They cant ignore the potential of these characters, ( I do have high hopes for Brave but)..they are the only non-Depp money they are making at the box office....now they are talking about a weekly Hulk tv show in prime time. This has got to make you think that they are seriously looking at finding a fit in WDW....
 
The Transformers ride may have been in the works before Disney bought Marvel, but you can bet it was adapted for a Marvel out. It just opened this year. Even if they had a perpetual contract, which they don't, many believe the royalties will get so high that it won't make since for Universal to keep Marvel. By the way, the only way they would have a perpetual contract is if they bought Marvel from Disney.:)

You've made this claim a number of times now. Can you cite any source to back it up?

The agreement filed with the SEC makes it pretty clear that Universal has licensed the characters for as long as their Marvel land remains open:

Once THE MARVEL UNIVERSE opens within the above time period, the term of this agreement shall continue for so long as a THE MARVEL UNIVERSE shall remain open (and operated consistent with the standards of the next paragraph below) at any Universal Theme Park (allowing for temporary closures for force majeure events or refurbishment/maintenance provided they are being diligently pursued), except for termination for material breach (with written notice and a reasonable opportunity to cure).

Source: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1262449/000119312510008732/dex1057.htm

There are clauses which state that Universal must maintain the attractions properly, etc., but those aren't easy "out" clauses for Marvel / Disney. As noted in the last sentence above, Universal must be informed of any issues and given the chance to remedy.

As for increases in the licensing fees, the only thing cited in the agreement is a CPI adjustment. CPI is based upon the prices of many consumer goods, so something like a dramatic increase in revenue from Marvel merchandise or media (film, TV) wouldn't have any noteworthy impact.
 
The SEC filing is not the final contract. That hasn't been made public. Character license agreements have to have expiration dates and renew dates. This is because of the changing value of the characters. Marvel is probably worth twice as much as Islands of Adventure now. I cited the MiceAge review of Transformers as the reason for the change out. Why would Universal have exactly the same ride at either Islands or the Studios? Spielberg has implied that Transformers is coming to Florida. My guess is that the Marvel Island will be transformed into Transformers or Sci Fi after Universal expands Harry Potter into the Studio park. My guess is within 5 years. This is how long Spielberg has left on his theme park contract. Jim Hill last year guessed that Marvel would be gone from Universal within 6 years. I don't know if he had information about an expiration date or if it was just a guess. Why would Universal want to keep Marvel, just to get back at Disney? They're already paying Disney a Lot in royalties. Plus, Disney is not going to let them add an Avengers ride or anything else.:)
 
The SEC filing is not the final contract. That hasn't been made public.

Source?

Character license agreements have to have expiration dates and renew dates. This is because of the changing value of the characters. Marvel is probably worth twice as much as Islands of Adventure now.

No, they don't "have to have" expiration dates.

When you enter into an agreement like this, both parties are assuming some risk. If the Marvel films had not been such a success, the property would be worth much less and Universal would be on the hook for whatever they agreed to a decade ago.

Universal would have been incredibly foolish to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into a Marvel Land if there was a chance the deal would expire in just 10-15 years. US would have left themselves in a terrible bargaining position regardless of the Marvel value change. Under those conditions Marvel could demand double or triple the fees, knowing that Universal's only other option is to re-theme 20% of their park including one of its signature attractions.

I cited the MiceAge review of Transformers as the reason for the change out. Why would Universal have exactly the same ride at either Islands or the Studios?

For the same reason that Indiana Jones at Disneyland and Dinosaur at Animal Kingdom are exactly the same ride--it saves money. As I said in my prior post, theme park attractions aren't LEGO kits or Rollercoaster Tycoon inventions where you just swap out one piece for another. Millions of dollars worth of engineering, parts fabrication, testing, etc. goes into these attractions. Making a virtual replica of an attraction is much, MUCH cheaper than starting fresh--even if the tech is similar.

Spielberg has implied that Transformers is coming to Florida.

Even if true (many people have called his comments into question), there is no guarantee that it would be either:

1) The same attraction they are building in Hollywood, or
2) A replacement for Spider-Man

Universal just invested millions to update Spider-Man. There is absolutely no reason to do that if the attraction is being replaced in the near future.

My guess is that the Marvel Island will be transformed into Transformers or Sci Fi after Universal expands Harry Potter into the Studio park. My guess is within 5 years. This is how long Spielberg has left on his theme park contract. Jim Hill last year guessed that Marvel would be gone from Universal within 6 years. I don't know if he had information about an expiration date or if it was just a guess. Why would Universal want to keep Marvel, just to get back at Disney? They're already paying Disney a Lot in royalties. Plus, Disney is not going to let them add an Avengers ride or anything else.:)

Jim Hill (and others) observed that Disney may try to buy its way out of the deal. That is always possible but it would NOT be cheap.

Why would Universal want to keep Marvel? Because they've invested hundreds-of-millions to add the property to the park. And because it's a popular franchise now. Who cares if they are paying royalties to Disney? Universal is getting exactly what they hoped to get from the deal.

In a prior post you said that the talk of a perpetual licensing agreement was merely "hype" spread by Universal execs. If there is any truth to that, why wouldn't Disney debunk the myth? All Bob Iger has to do is confirm that the Universal deal runs through 20xx, and the topic is immediately put to rest.

I appreciate your enthusiasm but you're grasping at straws here.
 
i would absolutely LOVE to see Disney make a 5th park that concentrated more on THRILL RIDES! Whether its marvel based or anything else really doesnt matter to me at all. But i think it would bring alot more revenue in to do so. DIsney is FAMILY then KIDS. But if there was a park with amazing rollercoasters this would really make Disney unbeatable!
 
Bob Iger confirmed yesterday that Avengers attractions are being planned for multiple parks. If these are a hit, we are getting closer to a Marvel fifth gate, or maybe as many of you have stated a revamp/expansion in DHS, maybe similar to size and scope of Fantasy Land Expansion. They cant ignore the potential of these characters, ( I do have high hopes for Brave but)..they are the only non-Depp money they are making at the box office....now they are talking about a weekly Hulk tv show in prime time. This has got to make you think that they are seriously looking at finding a fit in WDW....

WDW can not do certain things on the east coast due to contract.

That is why any theme park attractions concerning the Avengers will be done on the West coast or overseas...

from the Q2 2012 WDC earnings call
...the company's theme-park engineers have "ramped … up" design work on Marvel-based attractions for parks in California and overseas, though none is likely to be added at Walt Disney World because Universal Orlando holds exclusive theme-park rights to key Marvel properties on the U.S. East Coast.
 
Yes, licensed character agreements do have to have an expiration date, but whatever. I'll stand by my statements. Why wouldn't Iger debunk the myth?- Universal lawyers. Anyway, Universal got so bent out of shape about Disney buying Marvel, I'd love to see the fit they'll throw if Disney buys Time Warner. That wasn't a rumor, just a speculation.:)
 
i would absolutely LOVE to see Disney make a 5th park that concentrated more on THRILL RIDES! Whether its marvel based or anything else really doesnt matter to me at all. But i think it would bring alot more revenue in to do so. DIsney is FAMILY then KIDS. But if there was a park with amazing rollercoasters this would really make Disney unbeatable!

check the revenue numbers....

disney is already unbeatable.

and thats all that matters to those that hold the keys to the parks and the budgets
 
Yes, licensed character agreements do have to have an expiration date, but whatever. I'll stand by my statements. Why wouldn't Iger debunk the myth?- Universal lawyers. Anyway, Universal got so bent out of shape about Disney buying Marvel, I'd love to see the fit they'll throw if Disney buys Time Warner. That wasn't a rumor, just a speculation.:)

they should buy time warner...and newscorp

there by creating the most ineffective corporation in world history and ensuring bankruptcy
 












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