Disney to extend 60 day FP booking to non Disney hotels

[tlmadden73]

Not to give Disney any ideas (although I don't think that they'll implement an express pass option that lets you ride any ride any time you want - they've got too much invested in My Magic to upend or end run that $1.5B system), but I'd expect something more along the lines of $400 to $500 per person per day for one park. As @dlavender points out, Disney already is charging about $80 per person to ride 3 rides for about an hour at MK (EMM), another $80 to ride FEA once (yeah, there's a dessert party and fireworks, but FEA is the draw), or a whopping $250 to ride FoP once (yes, there's RoL, five other rides and a sampler platter - mostly window dressing to give you additional "value"). There'd be a ton of demand for something like this. Price it too low, and everyone has one (negating its purpose). But as I said, I don't think we'll see this anytime soon. What I do think we'll see are more "experiences" that are upsold and combine food, rides, fireworks, etc.

Disney is leaving money on the table by not utilizing the FP+ system in some way and charging for something "extra" .. fourth fast pass, "anytime" fast passes .. whatever.

 

[dlavender]

Disney is leaving money on the table by not utilizing the FP+ system in some way and charging for something "extra" .. fourth fast pass, "anytime" fast passes .. whatever.

I disagree, it makes them more money.

@ShadeDK laid it out. You can't sell a $80 frozen dessert package if you could get a FP just as easy by staying at the All Stars. You can't sell $250 FOP fast passes if they are readily available within 60 days. You wont be able to sell $400 breakfast with a stormtrooper and a ride on the falcon if the FP's are available.......

Also, how could they sell $400/hour VIP tours if you could pay less for more FP's?

 

[Happyinwonerland]

I think people put far too much stocl in the 60 day window. I never stay onsite, and never have trouble getting FP for stuff I want to ride.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

No, Just No! 180 Days is ridiculous enough for ADRs. I don't want to have to plan everything 6 months in advance to get any decent FPs. Personally, I'd rather see them go the other way and shrink the ADR window to something more reasonable like 60-90 days.

Didn't say I was advocating it. Just said it would make absolutely no difference to us because of how we plan our FPs.

And I don't want them to shorten the ADR window at all. They did that once before and it certainly wasn't any better. Park hours aren't finalized until a few weeks before (or even same day sometimes!!). Moving it from 180 day to 60 or 90 wouldn't help. It didn't when they actually had it at 90 days for a while.

 

[Princess_Lisa]

Or (more likely) they will have special "Early Morning Magic" hard ticket events with exclusive early access to Galaxy's Edge.

That would be awesome. I've been saying they need to offer something like EMM or DAH at the other parks.

Epcot EMM: Frozen, Test Track, Soarin', and once open Guardians of the Galaxy with breakfast at Akershus
MGM EMM: Once open, they could do an entire EMM just around Toy Story Land and a separate one for Star Wars. For now, I'd say TSMM, Star Tours, RNRC, and ToT. Not sure where breakfast should be though.
AK EMM: Pandora (FoP, NRJ), Everest, and Kali River Rapids with Breakfast at Satu'li Canteen

 

[ArwenMarie]

I wonder if WDW will put something sneaky (on these hotels) and move onsite to 90 days. Hmm....Will be interesting to watch for sure

I'm wondering what hotels are on the list. I can't imagine the Four Seasons won't be on it

 

[ShadeDK]

Disney is leaving money on the table by not utilizing the FP+ system in some way and charging for something "extra" .. fourth fast pass, "anytime" fast passes .. whatever.

I do wonder if Disney has any regrets at not monetizing FP+ in some way from the start. Setting aside that FP+ is a reservation system and not an express pass system (which is what most other parks charge for - the privilege of going to the front of the line any time for any ride rather than a handful of reservation windows), there's still value in the FP+ system. But they're finding creative ways to take that money off the table - whether it's the upcharge experiences or charging Good Neighbor hotels for access to advance FP+ reservations (which I think you were noting in an earlier post, too). FP+ through My Magic has a few years under it's belt and Disney has a lot of data. I'm assuming that it noticed that there's capacity/slack in the system for advance FPs (albeit not for the top 2-3 rides) and that it could be sold off without much negative impact for Disney resort guests. So I guess in that sense they are monetizing FP+ (even if indirectly through partnering fees). Not to say that you're not onto something there as well - and that Disney might drop the façade and charge for FP straight up at some point.

 

[ppjluvsdvc]

Well I am disappointed if this does come to pass. So disappointed that I already sent an email to DVC. The response was that they know nothing about this and unless it is released by an official Disney site, the information is false. So we will see what happens.

 

[tlmadden73]

I do wonder if Disney has any regrets at not monetizing FP+ in some way from the start. Setting aside that FP+ is a reservation system and not an express pass system (which is what most other parks charge for - the privilege of going to the front of the line any time for any ride rather than a handful of reservation windows), there's still value in the FP+ system. But they're finding creative ways to take that money off the table - whether it's the upcharge experiences or charging Good Neighbor hotels for access to advance FP+ reservations (which I think you were noting in an earlier post, too). FP+ through My Magic has a few years under it's belt and Disney has a lot of data. I'm assuming that it noticed that there's capacity/slack in the system for advance FPs (albeit not for the top 2-3 rides) and that it could be sold off without much negative impact for Disney resort guests. So I guess in that sense they are monetizing FP+ (even if indirectly through partnering fees). Not to say that you're not onto something there as well - and that Disney might drop the façade and charge for FP straight up at some point.

I mean, there IS value (not monetary) by not charging FP system. It is just that (especially in big business) those don't last long.
"I have to pay to skip the lines at Universal when I get it for free at Disney? I'm going to spend more time at Disney!"

I'll admit that the free FP+ system has been a huge sell for me. For me, it has made going on short trips with small children "worth" it.
Because of the FP+ system I am able to skip the lines with ease and not have a cranky, impatient toddler on my hands. I have a great time at low cost (only two park days) and want to come back again. I'm able to park hop easier and do two parks in one day, etc. etc.
We've gone on three trips since 2014 (My son was 2, 3 and then 4 this past March), but only two park days each --- a lot due to FP+. For no additional cost I am able to guarantee that my kids won't have to wait in long lines. That has kept us coming back year after year while they are young rather than waiting until they are more patient pre-teens (arguably).

But like all "free" things, those things slowly get eroded away once they get people "hooked" (look at free dining and EMH hours).

 

[dlavender]

I mean, there IS value (not monetary) by not charging FP system. It is just that (especially in big business) those don't last long.
"I have to pay to skip the lines at Universal when I get it for free at Disney? I'm going to spend more time at Disney!"

I'll admit that the free FP+ system has been a huge sell for me. For me, it has made going on short trips with small children "worth" it.
Because of the FP+ system I am able to skip the lines with ease and not have a cranky, impatient toddler on my hands. I have a great time at low cost (only two park days) and want to come back again. I'm able to park hop easier and do two parks in one day, etc. etc.
We've gone on three trips since 2014 (My son was 2, 3 and then 4 this past March), but only two park days each --- a lot due to FP+. For no additional cost I am able to guarantee that my kids won't have to wait in long lines. That has kept us coming back year after year while they are young rather than waiting until they are more patient pre-teens (arguably).

But like all "free" things, those things slowly get eroded away once they get people "hooked" (look at free dining and EMH hours).

I could see them offering cash for FP's on the lower tiered stuff, and keep the newer rides on a different system.

I just can't see them selling FOP FP's, for example, for anything less than a ridiculous price, like $100 for one ride.

 

[ArwenMarie]

We need to know the hotels and the number of rooms I think before we can say this will have an effect on FP availability. It could have a significant effect, or hardly any.

 

[KEW]

They should give the participating offsite hotels FP+ reservations like those paper FP that they hand out...good to book 60 days out on any rides except for X, Y, and Z (FOP, 7DMT, FEA at the moment but could be changed as new attractions open up in the future), since it's only a handful that people really have a hard time getting at 60 days out.

 

[Cornish Lad]

Just saw that on Twitter. Seems odd to remove a big differentiator between Disney and non Disney resorts.
Now 60 day FP will be harder to get!

It seems to me that in their race to be all things to all people the Disney advisors are losing track of why people are prepared to pay more to stay at a Disney resort. With the dog thing and now this it looks like a sure fire way of alienating 90% of your customers - not a good move in any business!

 

[melanielll]

Not to give Disney any ideas (although I don't think that they'll implement an express pass option that lets you ride any ride any time you want - they've got too much invested in My Magic to upend or end run that $1.5B system), but I'd expect something more along the lines of $400 to $500 per person per day for one park. As @dlavender points out, Disney already is charging about $80 per person to ride 3 rides for about an hour at MK (EMM), another $80 to ride FEA once (yeah, there's a dessert party and fireworks, but FEA is the draw), or a whopping $250 to ride FoP once (yes, there's RoL, five other rides and a sampler platter - mostly window dressing to give you additional "value"). There'd be a ton of demand for something like this. Price it too low, and everyone has one (negating its purpose). But as I said, I don't think we'll see this anytime soon. What I do think we'll see are more "experiences" that are upsold and combine food, rides, fireworks, etc.

I wasn't very clear - I can see $100 for 3 fast passes. I agree with you - if it is an all day type of thing it will be significantly more. And then we will be done. And we are in that supposed top 10% they are targeting. Part of how you get to be top 10% is realizing when you are being ripped off and saying no.

 

[twodogs]

Disney already has an essentially unlimited FP system, which is the VIP tour. This is not front of the line access, but unlimited FP. We have done this VIP tour several times, and literally rode SDMT 6 times in a row one day when it was the family's favorite ride (plus a bunch of other rides at all 4 parks). It is really, really expensive compared to other FOTL passes like Universal, I think. It does depend on how many people are in your VIP group (up to 10), as to how the price gets divided per person, so the cost can be brought down somewhat (though then you have to agree on what rides to do since the VIP guide can only be in one place at a time, getting you on a ride, for the most part). Most VIP groups I see are 4-6 people (we are 6), so if it is $4000 for 8 hours (more than that during holidays, plus tip; more if you go over 8 hours and want to do the "full day" of VIP like Universal's pass would give you), then that is $666 per person, PLUS theme park admission (with Parkhopper in our case, though you could just do one park, I suppose). Before tip and not at high season. If WDW rolls out a true unlimited FP, I think it will have to be basically prohibitively expensive to make it worth it (if the cost is too low, "everyone" will get it, and FP lines become SB lines). Based on the pricing of the VIP, you can see where they think the price value is, per person.

I actually talked to our VIP guide about this in March when we were there, and she said she hopes they never truly monetize FPs because she will lose her wonderful cushy fun job! While I get her point, WDW will eventually decide it is cheaper to sell me the unlimited FPs directly and not have to pay a person (and their benefits) to walk around with me to use the FPs. While the inside information about the parks that the guides offer is wonderful, the reality is people are paying $4000-$5000/day (plus park tickets) to get FPs and VIP seating at shows/parades/fireworks, etc. And that "access" can be added by WDW to my MB for $0 to WDW.

 

[KimBean]

Right ... I get that. But we never had any more than 2 in our possession at a time. Someone mentioned "stacks"? So I was wondering what I was missing back then?
Back then, if you played it right.... you could get a FP practically every hour of the day.... but still only had 2 at a time.... then run to the next FP machine.... it was all strategy!

Maybe they were stacking their used ones? Lol. I remember it like you do.

 

[KimBean]

We book our FPs for early afternoon, in whatever park we plan to hop to. I could do that at 180 days, despite the changes you mentioned that always can happen.

It's all a matter of how we book our FPs.

Gotcha. i usually do them between 11-3 myself. I did want a ROL though. ADRs were very difficult. I had to carry extra ADRs for about 100 days.

 

[hllb]

Domestic occupancy (DL and WDW) is pretty high for the hotel industry... this as of Jul17... don't know what ONLY WDW looks like...

View attachment 278978

So this is showing an increase in attendance for 2017 vs. 2016 of 22% overall, though a 2% decrease in per guest spending. Is that correct? Why are people on DIS saying that attendance has been down consistently the last 2 years?

 

[hllb]

Maybe they were stacking their used ones? Lol. I remember it like you do.

In the old days, they didn't hold you to the FP window. You couldn't go before the window opened, but you could go at anytime after it closed. So, people could grab two in the morning, but not use them. Then when those expired, grab two more. Now they have 4. Still, they don't use them. The next two expire, they grab 2 more. Now they have 6...they could do this a good part of the day and then spend all evening using them. Disney let them do it, even though they didn't have to honor them since the windows were technically closed. We never did this. Who'd want to just spend they're morning running around the park getting FPs and not using them? Not me LOL.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Maybe they were stacking their used ones? Lol. I remember it like you do.

Back in the old days, one way to stack FP was to use them after the prescribed time window.

Personally, I used to get 'large stacks' because I went to WDW with a large group. Often enough, part of the group would drop off before the FP time window started. Other times, everyone would get too tired to use them, or a meal would run late and we couldn't get back to the park.

The FP line is often about 15min long. If the standby line was only 10minutes, we'd often just use the standby line, and keep our FP. This often happened if we rode Buzz during the parade/Wishes, but as soon as the shows are over there's a stampede! I don't know about you, but we usually want to re-ride Buzz to see if we can get a higher score. So we'd definitely hold onto our paper FP if standby was short.

My favorite paper FP are the ones with times like 3-4am! Come 3am, we rarely needed the FP, so I still have some of them.