Disney Skyliner (Gondola Transportation System) Read Post 1 Now Open!

[lockedoutlogic]

View went out the window when Swan and Dolphin were built.

Right...and all those "fantastic views" from the contemporary actually look Into the service area behind tomorrowland...

And "castle view" at the poly is so far away it's the size of a pickle...

Just saying...why worry about it with this?

 

[rteetz]

Right...and all those "fantastic views" from the contemporary actually look Into the service area behind tomorrowland...

And "castle view" at the poly is so far away it's the size of a pickle...

Just saying...why worry about it with this?

With that said I very much enjoyed my lagoon view at the BC instead of looking at a parking lot.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

With that said I very much enjoyed my lagoon view at the BC instead of looking at a parking lot.

That's actually one of the better "views" they have...but is a cable car gonna really affect that? Not too much.

 

[dlavender]

I get that...the point is this car system...whatever it is...needs to have a pretty hefty capacity to be effective where they are putting it.

They would need to design it so it DOESNT become crunched like the boats and monorails...

So far this discussion seems to be cutesy idea of a few stations and some fairly quaint cars...it needs to be made for volume or the system will not work and cause as much trouble as it "fixes"

I wonder what the capacity of each gondola will be? Will they go with ones that seat/stand 20? How fast can they load one that holds 20? Doppelmayr states that they can move 3600/hr using 20 person units. That means that they are filling a car every 20 seconds. Seems a little ambitious as WDW with double strollers and grandparents. Perhaps every 40 seconds is doable? Meaning they can move 1800/hr? Is that enough where at park close you aren't waiting an hour to leave? Are they installing Mickey touch points.....

ETA I see where a PP said the bus can hold 115 people. So at close, lets pretend/assume that in 20 mins each of the three resorts gets 3 bus loads (sounds like I'm writing a common core problem). So thats 1035 people transported at close in 20 mins using the buses. In 20 mins, if its a 20 person car, and they can load at 40 seconds each, then that's 600 people in that same time frame. But perhaps 40 seconds is way too generous. Maybe 20 seconds will be the norm. If that's the case, then it will be more efficient.

 

[OSUZorba]

I wonder what the capacity of each gondola will be? Will they go with ones that seat/stand 20? How fast can they load one that holds 20? Doppelmayr states that they can move 3600/hr using 20 person units. That means that they are filling a car every 20 seconds. Seems a little ambitious as WDW with double strollers and grandparents. Perhaps every 40 seconds is doable? Meaning they can move 1800/hr? Is that enough where at park close you aren't waiting an hour to leave? Are they installing Mickey touch points.....

ETA I see where a PP said the bus can hold 115 people. So at close, lets pretend/assume that in 20 mins each of the three resorts gets 3 bus loads (sounds like I'm writing a common core problem). So thats 1035 people transported at close in 20 mins using the buses. In 20 mins, if its a 20 person car, and they can load at 40 seconds each, then that's 600 people in that same time frame. But perhaps 40 seconds is way too generous. Maybe 20 seconds will be the norm. If that's the case, then it will be more efficient.

Breckenridge claims their system is over 3k/hr with ~10 people per car. So about 30 busses, if they pack the cars as tight as the buses.

I think there is probably high likelihood of having multiple load lines, so one set of slow people doesn't slow the entire process.

I suppose the 3k is probably in both directions, so only 1500 one way, still about 15 busses.

 

[dlavender]

Breckenridge claims their system is over 3k/hr with ~10 people per car. So about 30 busses, if they pack the cars as tight as the buses.

I think there is probably high likelihood of having multiple load lines, so one set of slow people doesn't slow the entire process.

I suppose the 3k is probably in both directions, so only 1500 one way, still about 15 busses.

So it will be as efficient as 5 buses per resort per hour? So 1 bus every 12 minutes?

The advantage will be that the line will consistently move vs just standing there for 12 minutes at a time.

But to @lockedoutlogic point, the gondola's will not really help with the closing crush like a line of buses or back to back monorail loads can.

Perhaps the buses coupled with the gondolas will make all the difference.

 

[MommaBerd]

I definitely don't want to see plant facilities on stage, but really? The gondola is going to ruin the sight lines? I know it is all just personal opinion, but the monorail IS Disney to me because of its uniqueness. And though the gondolas won't be unique to Disney, they are an innovative form of transportation. I think for me, they will also become a big part of the Disney World experience - maybe eventually an icon - not detract from it.

 

[sachilles]

It's not easy to explain, but I'll try. You can concurrently load more than one gondola vehicle at a time. So While they may say 20 seconds to load, there is likely a window of 60 seconds or more.
So lets say you have 6 cars coming in, the process will overlap. You will have multiple cars in different stages of loading. The gondola may very well spend close to 2 minutes in the "station" as part of the process. However, every 20 seconds a car is sent out of the station, hopefully full to it's capacity. It's an omni mover. Not every car will be to capacity 100% of the time. The whole system could slow on occasion, it could stop briefly. Even in those cases it will still likely be more efficient that buses. Like anything, when you exceed capacity, it's going to be a kill joy. However, I bet we will find it's capacity is greater than the conditions 90% of the time. You'll walk up, and board. You won't wait but a minute, and they'll you'll be moving to your next spot.
Which style they use and the loading process is highly variable. Scooters and wheelchairs will be a challenge, but nothing too crazy to deal with.
It will be light years better than the busses, boats and monorails. Will it be perfect, no.

 

[Roxyfire]

Which style they use and the loading process is highly variable. Scooters and wheelchairs will be a challenge, but nothing too crazy to deal with.
It will be light years better than the busses, boats and monorails. Will it be perfect, no.

I think it'll seem faster because the line will be slowly but constantly moving toward the station, rather than standing still, waiting for a bus, and hoping you get on this one. It won't matter if they underfill one a little because of a giant stroller or scooter because there's many more cars right behind it. It'll give those people at those larger resorts a choice. But they may end up walking a lot more after because of where the station is located in relation to their room too. So it may not be as convenient as bus that stops right outside your building, as at CBR.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Crowd loading is a major problem at WDW for several reasons...

Notable strollers and more electric vehicles than warranted/necessary.

But here's really what's being underestimated:
Customers at WDW are AWFUL at following flow and loading themselves...it's been that way forever and causes daily logistics issues. This system will have to be idiot proof...frankly.

 

[sachilles]

Crowd loading is a major problem at WDW for several reasons...

Notable strollers and more electric vehicles than warranted/necessary.

But here's really what's being underestimated:
Customers at WDW are AWFUL at following flow and loading themselves...it's been that way forever and causes daily logistics issues. This system will have to be idiot proof...frankly.

Making something idiot proof, just builds a better breed of idiot. Concern is noted and well founded. I still think it it will be less of an issue than is thought on this board. It will be easier to load than the funships by a factor of 10. Busses, it will be way better. Monorail, probably won't load any easier, but less people per vessel will make it flow a bit easier.

 

[DisFanDad]

I wonder what the capacity of each gondola will be? Will they go with ones that seat/stand 20? How fast can they load one that holds 20? Doppelmayr states that they can move 3600/hr using 20 person units. That means that they are filling a car every 20 seconds. Seems a little ambitious as WDW with double strollers and grandparents. Perhaps every 40 seconds is doable? Meaning they can move 1800/hr? Is that enough where at park close you aren't waiting an hour to leave? Are they installing Mickey touch points.....

ETA I see where a PP said the bus can hold 115 people. So at close, lets pretend/assume that in 20 mins each of the three resorts gets 3 bus loads (sounds like I'm writing a common core problem). So thats 1035 people transported at close in 20 mins using the buses. In 20 mins, if its a 20 person car, and they can load at 40 seconds each, then that's 600 people in that same time frame. But perhaps 40 seconds is way too generous. Maybe 20 seconds will be the norm. If that's the case, then it will be more efficient.

I am also not sure if the 115 people on a bus is accurate .... that seems like a LOT. I would think 50 or 60 would be more accurate....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I am also not sure if the 115 people on a bus is accurate .... that seems like a LOT. I would think 50 or 60 would be more accurate....

The articulated buses probably fit that many...but most of the buses and stops still only accommodate the standard buses and those are typically about 55

 

[DisFanDad]

The articulated buses probably fit that many...but most of the buses and stops still only accommodate the standard buses and those are typically about 55

Yea just looked up the stats on the New Flyer Xcelsior, one of the buses in the disney fleet, the manufacturer says it has a maximum capacity of 61 people.

 

[Roxyfire]

But here's really what's being underestimated:
Customers at WDW are AWFUL at following flow and loading themselves...it's been that way forever and causes daily logistics issues. This system will have to be idiot proof...frankly.

People in general are awful at this. This past weekend I was at both IKEA and Midway Airport. For whatever reason the ideas of walking forward, filling in the line, or moving aside before stopping are far too difficult for the average person to comprehend. Aside from stationing a very snarky CM to berate people for not doing the right thing, I don't see how Disney Transportation folks can override the natural order of things.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Yea just looked up the stats on the New Flyer Xcelsior, one of the buses in the disney fleet, the manufacturer says it has a maximum capacity of 61 people.

Don't forget to account for the 2 mandatory ecvs...so more like 55

 

[crazy4wdw]

I'm not talking about consistently In themes...that shark has been jumped. It's not me...FEA is a "big success" and everyone thinks it's great. I didn't decide abandoning theme was good...that was y'all.

What in saying is what is the obsession with view? It's a bigger part of the scheme.

For me, it's that when WDW was created, there was great care how everything matched - the Contemporary was built behind Tomrrowland, Polynesian was built across the lagoon from Adventureland, the proposed Asian Resort would have been located behind Adventureland, etc. They constructed the utilidors so that a CM that worked in Fronteirland would not be seen walking over to Tomorrowland in their western costume. It's more of "declining by degrees" that's been going on at WDW for the last 10 to 15 years.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

People in general are awful at this. This past weekend I was at both IKEA and Midway Airport. For whatever reason the ideas of walking forward, filling in the line, or moving aside before stopping are far too difficult for the average person to comprehend. Aside from stationing a very snarky CM to berate people for not doing the right thing, I don't see how Disney Transportation folks can override the natural order of things.

Right...and those places don't feature the daydreaming and natural distractions of a Mickey Mouse compound.

So multiply that times 100,000

I would HOPE that if they are bothering to do this to build timeshares and flood restaurants (wait...am I being too honest again?)...then I hope there is a design that features higher capacity than maybe features and sometyoe of ingenious load platform...maybe each one needs a designate handicap/strolled load stations that can take as long as they need to?

Or...and this is a nefarious question: would this system have to be ADA compliant? I'm guessing yes...but if the buses can still accommodate is there a potential loophole? Albeit an awful PR one...

 

[lockedoutlogic]

For me, it's that when WDW was created, there was great care how everything matched - the Contemporary was built behind Tomrrowland, Polynesian was built across the lagoon from Adventureland, the proposed Asian Resort would have been located behind Adventureland, etc. They constructed the utilidors so that a CM that worked in Fronteirland would not be seen walking over to Tomorrowland in their western costume. It's more of "declining by degrees" that's been going on at WDW for the last 10 to 15 years.

You know I agree with you here on principle...

But to seek wisdom you must first have to answer this question: what's the stock doing today?

 

[skier_pete]

I wonder what the capacity of each gondola will be? Will they go with ones that seat/stand 20? How fast can they load one that holds 20? Doppelmayr states that they can move 3600/hr using 20 person units. That means that they are filling a car every 20 seconds. Seems a little ambitious as WDW with double strollers and grandparents. Perhaps every 40 seconds is doable? Meaning they can move 1800/hr? Is that enough where at park close you aren't waiting an hour to leave?

I am going to refer to this picture I posted a few pages ago. The way detachable gondolas work is that they are loading multiple gondolas at once. The first gondola comes into the station - and they shove a group of people at it, then while that gondola is moving around the circle, then the next group of people load in it. Each group might have a full minute to load onto the gondola cars, but because multiple cars are loading at once, on average a fully loaded gondola will leave every 20 seconds.

Another way to picture this is for anyone that has ever ridden Kali River Rapids. The rafts are on a big turntable, and between loading and unloading the rafts might be at the turntable for 3 minutes, but one is "launched" every say 45 seconds.

My guess is they will handle wheelchairs / ECVs one of two ways. (1) Have every 20th car be set up to handle a wheelchair / ECV or (2) offer a separate transportation option for Wheelchairs /ECVs. There's a good chance they will have to offer an alternative transportation anyways for those with phobias of such things. (A small percentage of people, but they exist none-the-less.)

It's not easy to explain, but I'll try. You can concurrently load more than one gondola vehicle at a time. So While they may say 20 seconds to load, there is likely a window of 60 seconds or more.
So lets say you have 6 cars coming in, the process will overlap. You will have multiple cars in different stages of loading. The gondola may very well spend close to 2 minutes in the "station" as part of the process. However, every 20 seconds a car is sent out of the station, hopefully full to it's capacity. It's an omni mover. Not every car will be to capacity 100% of the time. The whole system could slow on occasion, it could stop briefly. Even in those cases it will still likely be more efficient that buses. Like anything, when you exceed capacity, it's going to be a kill joy. However, I bet we will find it's capacity is greater than the conditions 90% of the time. You'll walk up, and board. You won't wait but a minute, and they'll you'll be moving to your next spot.
Which style they use and the loading process is highly variable. Scooters and wheelchairs will be a challenge, but nothing too crazy to deal with.
It will be light years better than the busses, boats and monorails. Will it be perfect, no.

What @sachilles said. I think a lot of people don't like/trust the concept because it is different from their experience. (If you are not a skier / mountain biker how often do you use a Gondola?) Those of us that have experience with these know how wonderfully efficient they are. You realize people are clomping off and on them in ski boots with snowboards/skis/poles and backpacks. I don't feel like there will be much issue with handling this at all.