Disney Security .... It's not really that bad

[GaryDis]

I've never seen people backed up wall to wall at my grocery store

Typically the evening before Thanksgiving, yes. Or on the subway going to or from the doctor (or anywhere else). Or the mall on Black Friday. Or any movie theater lobby the night of a big premier.

But PP wasn't asserting that grocery stores were the same. Just that if you keep imagining such things, you'll always be able to find something to fear, and it will get worse and worse for you.

(Edit to fix typo.)

 

[miamimi]

Typically the evening before Thanksgiving, yes. Or on the subway going to or from the doctor (or anywhere else). Or the mall on Black Friday. Or any movie theater lobby the night of a big premier.

But PP wasn't asserting that grocery stores were the same. Just that if you keep imagining such things, you'll always be able to find something to fear, and it will get worse and worse for you.

(Edit to fix typo.)

Yes, all of those scenarios are a possibility. But Disney could reduce the bottleneck if they chose to, by providing more security check points. I'm curious to know what people will say about Disney's current security practices , if something really did happen at the bottleneck.

The only reason I even mentioned the bottleneck was that everyone is defending this practice as a way for Disney to scrutinize guests. I guess the single file line at the airport isn't as efficient.

 

[miamimi]

It doesn't prevent a shooting. It minimizes risk and maximizes containment.

• A bottleneck slows traffic, and allows behind the scenes security to scan the crowd for known risks, suspect behavior, and employ other security measures most people aren't aware of.
• Security is most concentrated at these bottleneck points, maximizing the potential to capture an assailant. Once inside the park physical security is there, but not as close by as at the gates.
• Potential capture of an assailant is greater at the gates because there is nowhere to go. Once inside the park it's easier to hide and/or evade security.

If someone had a "semi-automatic weapon" in their stroller, Disney security will be aware of it long before it has a chance to be pulled out. They've already proven their superb security by having been aware that Omar Mateen had staked out Downtown Disney - a place where no one goes through a security check point.

Yes, lets ignore the stampede that would occur at the bottleneck. People want to survive and they will hurt one another trying to escape.

 

[maxiesmom]

Yes, all of those scenarios are a possibility. But Disney could reduce the bottleneck if they chose to, by providing more security check points. I'm curious to know what people will say about Disney's current security practices , if something really did happen at the bottleneck.

The only reason I even mentioned the bottleneck was that everyone is defending this practice as a way for Disney to scrutinize guests. I guess the single file line at the airport isn't as efficient.

So where exactly would you put those check points? At each resort? Adding another 15 (rough guess) checkpoints would end up costing each of us how much do you think to construct and staff? And you would still have to have the checkpoints at the park, so how would you separate out those who have been checked from those who haven't been? At the TTC where you have guests that have already been at a Disney resort (so hypothetically have been checked ) how do you weed them out from the people driving in from off site? How do you man the parking lots at say the Contemporary, and make sure people are not taking a taxi there and walking in to the MK? Where do they get checked? How about people using the monorail, checkpoints at every stop for that too?

More checkpoints may sound great, but it would be a nightmare. And cost a fortune.

 

[IrishNYC]

Yes, lets ignore the stampede that would occur at the bottleneck. People want to survive and they will hurt one another trying to escape.

Hurt in a stampede is less risk than a loose shooter inside. Have you ever had to escape from a terror situation? I have. My husband is a 9/11 first responder. People are generally less excitable in a true emergency than during perceived danger. Disney security experts know what they're doing.

 

[cobright]

How does this "bottleneck" prevent someone at the back from pulling a semi-automatic weapon from their stroller and using it to take out hundreds of guests who are trapped in the bottleneck? Is this what would be characterized as an acceptable risk?

In that the risk of this is very small and far outweighed by the advantages gained, yes.

I'm not trying to be glib, but your concern is just not well placed in this instance.

For instance:

I do think the bottleneck at security is an ideal terrorist situation. Once a gunman opens fire, the crowd would most likely start stampeding, so there would be even more victims. Look at what happened at Disney Springs last Christmas.

Pull up magic kingdom sattelite view on Google maps. Look at the entrance area. Big wide open area. No one is confined until theyes get under the roof for bag check. If something were to happen at bag check there is ample room to run and even a bit of cover. Stampeders are dangerous when people are enclosed or restrained by barriers. That's not the case here.

On the other side of bag check there's a short but wide 'air-gap' then a narrower entrance to the park. If there's violence at bag check, this narrow opening can be closed off and defended. Allowing a gunman to get into the park would be catastrophic. If your worrying about 100 people in a mostly open courtyard panicking, imagine 400 people on IASW trying to get out at once. Or the nearly 100 peogle locked into soarin in each of the three theaters.

One can get manic considering relative threats like this. I would know. The more I learn, and what I've seen doing field work (remember the Mumbai massacre?) is enough to keep anyone awake at night (3:26 am on my clock).

So I ask you, if the bottleneck is an essential part of the security screening, couldn't it be created after everyone goes through the X-ray machines and bag check?

So speed up bag check then slow people down some other way in some other place? Sure, can be done. Looks like this... you speed through security and x-ray because theyes are going as fast as humanly possible. Then you are directed to one of several holding pens where you will wait with a cohort of fellow vacationers for 15 to 45 minutes before finally being released into the park. This is the model airline passengers are familiar with.

It's easy to overvalued the risk posed by something when the consequences are extreme, or when they have occurred in recent memory. It's a cognitive bias called the 'availability heuristic'.

But Disney's track record is superb, and that's because of, not despite, the security choices they've made.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Pull up magic kingdom sattelite view on Google maps. Look at the entrance area. Big wide open area. No one is confined until theyes get under the roof for bag check. If something were to happen at bag check there is ample room to run and even a bit of cover. Stampeders are dangerous when people are enclosed or restrained by barriers. That's not the case here.

On the other side of bag check there's a short but wide 'air-gap' then a narrower entrance to the park. If there's violence at bag check, this narrow opening can be closed off and defended. Allowing a gunman to get into the park would be catastrophic. If your worrying about 100 people in a mostly open courtyard panicking, imagine 400 people on IASW trying to get out at once. Or the nearly 100 peogle locked into soarin in each of the three theaters.

FWIW, I don't think the concern many are expressing about the bottleneck before security is about days when there's only 100 people in that area. I think the concern is related to times when that area looks like this:

 

[DOREEN1779]

I don't mind security lines, it is for the safety of everyone.

 

[JerseyGirl]

We actually saw someone at Epcot talk their way out of the additional screening last week...he was upset that he was randomly selected 3x and caused a scene about racial profiling. They let him go! I am guessing he was discreetly followed though...but it was disturbing that he talked his way out of it.

 

[cobright]

FWIW, I don't think the concern many are expressing about the bottleneck before security is about days when there's only 100 people in that area. I think the concern is related to times when that area looks like this:

I was referring to the people actually confined to a greater degree within the bag check area (Orange area in picture). Your pic shows the crowds in the Yellow boxed area but we can assume the crowd density is similar throughout. The Blue area (about 3300Sq.Ft.), if packed would contain about 600 people.

Assume miamimi's worst case scenario of a pram wheeling gunman opening up from the bottom vertex of the blue box. Any further south and the landscape obscures possible targets who might be bottle necked by security (miamimi's concern). Problem with that is the bottleneck is a social one not a physical one. The only thing keeping you from running through bag check is the guard there telling you to show him your wallet. There is no physical barrier. More than that, everywhere there is a physical barrier in the form of those metal barricades, there's always at least a few security guards. In the event of an emergency, egressing this area is as easy as anywhere, and easier than a lot of places within the gates. That specific spot is also usually heavy with guards or police.

It would definitely suck if someone started shooting anywhere, and crowds don't help, but slowing people down at this point enough to get a good look at them as a group does not represent a greater risk than flushing a gunman within the park; considerably less.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

We actually saw someone at Epcot talk their way out of the additional screening last week...he was upset that he was randomly selected 3x and caused a scene about racial profiling. They let him go! I am guessing he was discreetly followed though...but it was disturbing that he talked his way out of it.

THIS I have a problem with. I would hope he was "discreetly followed", but I don't like that he was allowed to talk his way out of it with an idle threat.

 

[thelittlemermaid2]

Its also just luck picking which security guard to go to, some are faster than others looking through bags!

 

[yulilin3]

Yesterday's experience
My DD16 and I went to MK around 2pm, got picked to go through metal detectors, no problem
Hopped over to DHS around 5pm, got picked again, the detector went off when my daughter went through. So they asked her to lift her arms so they can pass the wand, the wand goes off around her mid section, she was wearing a longish shirt, security asked her to lift up her shirt up to her waist, the security guard looks at my daughter's button for her pants and said "that's probably what made the detector go off".. .same pair of pants ...I've been told that each machine has different detection settings, I guess the one at DHS wad more sensitive

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

Anyone know how security is at the hotels? That's my main worry.

Well, considering you see absolutely no security. They must have the absolute best security on the planet. It is all just hidden.

Oh, except when you are in that long line in the morning for breakfast. Then they are slowing you down, intentionally, so they can profile you.

 

[Oozma_Kappa]

I feel very safe with security as well as all the dogs sniffing around. The security guards are so friendly also and have made me laugh more this past trip (just got home a couple hours ago) than any other CM. (All CM's were friendly, but security was the most out of everyone.) I had 5 entries in 3 days and got chosen twice.