Disney Points vs Marriott Purchase?

[JoeM]

We have been investigating the purchase of a Marriott Timeshare (probably in the Orlando area). We already own DVC and have also considered purchasing additional points and trade out through WorldPassport Program as we have noticed several of the Marriott resorts (and others) are listed there also. We have researched Marriott at the other Timeshare (tug2.com) website. It appears they do have a solid offering. My question is do you feel it is better to purchase additional points with Disney and use it for trading when we wish to vacation at non-Disney locations like Marriott, or is it better to buy a Marriott Timeshare for every-other-year use?

Any input or experiences would be appreciated!

 

[Dean]

I own DVC and Marriott. I will give you some info and it represents my opinion, you can take it for what it's worth. First, some absolutes, again IMO.

• Don't buy DVC to trade. This means for other timeshare, cruises, Concierge collection, etc.
• Don't buy DVC for long weekends.
• Weekday stays provide the best value by far using DVC.
• Don't buy Marriott Orlando to trade.
• Don't buy High end Marriott's to trade routinely.

DVC has good trade power but remember that with top Marriott's and DVC, most exchanges would be a downtrade. And given the negatives and costs associated with trading, it just doesn't make sense. One should always try to be in a position of trading up a little (unit size, week, resort quality, etc). Buy the number of DVC points you will use and maybe a SMALL cushion depending on specifics. In general buying what you will use is better than buying to trade. Lockoff's usually are a better deal when trading but it's getting increasingly harder to do well. You can always buy a lower season or lower rated resort (even Marriott) for trading. If you'll post what you really want to do over the next few years, unit size needed, areas you prefer to visit and the like; we might have additional or better recommendations.

 

[Cruelladeville]

I own both Marriott and DVC also, and I enjoy both. Mariott can be gotten for cheap, compared to DVC, if you want to trade. A resale would be a good choice. Just be aware that Marriott does have alot of hidden costs that DVC does not. One of them is membership in II--you have to buy your yearly membership in II if you even plan to trade out of your season. There is a cost to trade with Marriott, cancellations or changes cost $, you cannot trade to any other Marriott without incurring $. Maintainence fees are a bit high, I think, compared to the other choices Dean mentioned, and may be better for trading Still, Marriott's have good trade power, even Orlando. My sister's tactic is to trade for a holiday week, and then trade that week for some of the more difficult-to-get Marriott's. She has had excellent results using this tactic, getting two in California, Colorado, and Palm Beach. Of course, there is an additional charge to trade a trade.

 

[Caskbill]

We own DVC and Marriott also. Keep in mind that the discounts on the resale market are generally much deeper for Marriott than Disney, so if you're thinking Marriott, definitely think resale.

While there are some costs involved, there can be some advantages. For example, while you have to join II (annual fees) in order to trade your Marriott, even if trading with another Marriott, being a member of II is not all bad. One thing is you can purchase Get-A-Ways at some fairly reasonable prices, usually at or below what the annual maintenance fees would be for a resort. There is no limit to how many Get-a-ways you can buy. Of course it's all based on availability.

We've used Get-a-ways a couple of times to extend our WDW vacations. We use DVC points to stay on-site, but then may move off site for 7-days somewhere else and do SW, IoA, US, or just the general Orlando area. We'll even still do some Disney. (Annual passes still get you free parking at the parks).

We'll follow-up by going back to DVC, usually at a different DVC resort, for several more days.

Depending on resort, a Get-A-Way week for a 1-B/R can be as cheap as $250 for a (not-so-nice) place, up to $700-$800 for some really nice accommodations.

If you're flexible, you could purchase just one Marriott, join II, and then do any number of stays all over the place paying what amounts to in most cases the maintenance fees (or less) for a resort.

Looking at II right now, here are some 1-B/R villas available during the next few weeks. (price for 7-days, taxes not included)

Westgate Town Center (limited kitchen) $599
Fairfield Star Island (no kitchen) $249
The Wyndham Palms resort & country club (full kitchen) $599

 

[3kidz4dis]

[*]Don't buy High end Marriott's to trade routinely.
[/list]
QUOTE]

I own DVC with enough points for EOY and have a deeded week Platinum EOY at Marriot Beach place towers which I bought resale (at a decent price) deeded EOY (to use opposite years of DVC.) I bought the Beach Place towers solely for trading which is why I bought Platinum and a good trader in Ft. Lauderdale. I am flexible with dates and thought this was a good strategy. Dean, could you explain why this is not a good idea? (taking into consideration our dates are flexible)

 

[pioneer girl]

Mariott can be gotten for cheap, compared to DVC, if you want to trade. A resale would be a good choice.

These posts have very helpful information.
Just wondering which Marriotts can be gotten for cheap on resales. The prices seem high on the couple of resale sites I looked at. Thanks!

 

[southtown]

What is everyones opinion on buying a Sheraton Vistana resale for trading? They can be bought for like $5000 on the resale market. I was thinking of buying there for trading or for a second Disney trip. Its so close to Disney,it was easier for me to drive there then some of the Disney resorts.

 

[T.E. Yeary]

It is a really nice resort if you don't mind being off Disney property. They can be bought at a huge discount.

 

[JimC]

You have gotten very good experienced advice so far. Here are my thoughts:

We also own both DVC and MVC. We got into MVC for non-Disney vacations and DVC for Disney vacations. When we bought DVC and MVC we bought at resorts we would want to stay at on a regular basis.

One of our MVC weeks is at Cypress Harbour. It is a very nice resort. And we expect to use it when we do non-Disney outings in Orlando (SW, US, KSC, etc).

We plan to use our MVC studio lock-off units to trade (mostly within the Marriott system) and factored the II, lock-off and trade fees into our assessment of the cost of owning MVC. It just raises the annual fees in our view (my sense is Marriott charges many more nuisance fees than Disney but we enjoy Marriott properties and service -- so it is worth it in our view.

 

[RumpleMom]

I was told by a Marriott salesperson that buying resale prohibits you from their point system which can be used for stays and airfare.

I forgot to ask if the number of points required increases over time? For example: (Just made up numbers here)- 145,000 pts for a plane ticket?

 

[JimC]

If you buy resale you can not trade the week for points. Each week has an assigned conversion value and frequency. You must pay the maintenance fees plus $104 (someone check me on the amount) to convert into Marriott Rewards. If that is important and desired then you need to buy from Marriott.

 

[Dean]

[*]Don't buy High end Marriott's to trade routinely.
[/list]
QUOTE]

I own DVC with enough points for EOY and have a deeded week Platinum EOY at Marriot Beach place towers which I bought resale (at a decent price) deeded EOY (to use opposite years of DVC.) I bought the Beach Place towers solely for trading which is why I bought Platinum and a good trader in Ft. Lauderdale. I am flexible with dates and thought this was a good strategy. Dean, could you explain why this is not a good idea? (taking into consideration our dates are flexible)

BPT is a perfect example. It's over $900 in fees and you can buy a Platinum week for around $12K or a little lower if you are aggressive. While you can trade it as a lockoff, the limitations of trading smaller units negates any benefits of the lockoff feature. One could buy 2 Harbour pointe weeks for trading for about the same cost and the yearly fees would be not that much more, maybe $1150 or so yearly. But HP is fixed weeks and thus you can trade and deposit up to 18 months prior to your week and don't have to worry about booking a good week to trade. And you could search for 2 BR units with an ongoing search at all resorts.

IMO, owning BPT is not a reasonable choice for exchanging only. Hey, you asked. LOL. One can easily buy a something that trades well for a couple of thousand $$$ or less and yearly fees under $450 per year. You can't get Marriott's that low generally but there are other things that will trade well and into Marriott, sometimes better than another Marriott. And don't try to tell me about the internal Marriott trade priority as it's not absolute by ANY means. I can give you hundreds of examples where non Marriott owners got prime Marriott weeks when Marriott owners were searching for those weeks.

 

[Dean]

These posts have very helpful information.
Just wondering which Marriotts can be gotten for cheap on resales. The prices seem high on the couple of resale sites I looked at. Thanks!

Like DVC, Marriott's are fairly expensive. And cheap is a relative term. Plus there's no reason you can't offer less than the listing price. try redweeks.com, myresortnetworks.com, monstertimeshares.com, ebay, bidshares.com, tug2.net classifieds as a start.

 

[Dean]

I was told by a Marriott salesperson that buying resale prohibits you from their point system which can be used for stays and airfare.

I forgot to ask if the number of points required increases over time? For example: (Just made up numbers here)- 145,000 pts for a plane ticket?

That's true but who cares. Marriott points are no more than FF miles and not worth even a modest increased price to have that option. That is the only option you don't get resale. The best trade options usually don't come with points anyway like Harbour Pointe and possibly Vail (if it remains a Marriott.

 

[stlrod]

I own DVC and just sold my Marriott (Cypress Harbour) but enjoyed having it for many years (and I had some really good trades.) If you buy Marriott, do not buy Orlando. There is nothing wrong with the Orlando resorts (and contrary to popular belief they can trade nicely.) The problem with Orlando is that you will be blocked out of trading into Orlando except at another Marriott property. Why does that matter? It's getting easier and easier to get OKW on trade. For example, I have a friend who owns Marriott Horizons Branson. He split his unit into a studio and 1BR. He then traded those for two weeks at OKW, both over Memorial Day weekend. One is a 1BR and the other is a 2BR. I "rented" the 1BR from him. Not bad trades at all. Had he been a Marriott Orlando owner, he could not have traded for OKW. Frankly, he's gotten some very good trades out of that Branson property (traded to Marriott Kauai and Marriott's Newport Coast in late June, each time trading up the size.) He also gets bonus weeks from Interval for splitting the unit.

 

[stlrod]

And don't worry about the points--the "value" of points continually decreases.

 

[daxus]

This forum is such font of knowledge....

I own DVC, and was looking at MVC as well, and I have a few questions, if anyone can help.

1. If you buy a floating week at a MVC resort how easy is it to book a particular week for your holiday? How far out can you / should you book?

2. They have resorts with Gold and Gold Holiday Seasons. Are they exclusive or does one include the other?

Thanks guys

 

[JoeM]

I do want to thank everyone for their input. It's a real bonus to have the collected knowledge here to help with decision making. I did have some follow up questions:

1. Why is the Orlando area not a good place to buy for trading purposes? During the sales presentation we attend last April, the rep told us that about 75% of the people buying at the Grand Vista resort or others in that area normally trade out.

2. I was surprised that most folks here do not see value in the ability to trade for vacation packages within Marriott Point System. For example, is not say a trade of 180,000 to 200,000 points plus 104.00 (fee might be incorrect) worth a Hawaii vacation which includes air transportation. Is the issue that resales are that much cheaper, as to not justify the upfront costs for only a points trade?

3. Do Marriott's stated annual maintenance fees include the real estate tax or is it calculated separately?

Comment: I agree that we found the Marriott fees to be high and mandatory membership fees don't sit well with us. We also found it ironic that the Sales force mentioned the "Florida Club" which allow you to trade out to any resort within the FL area, but again their is a $29.00 annual fee to belong to the "club" which is mandatory.

Dean, you felt that buying some Disney points for trade possibilities is not a good thing to do. Why is that? What are the "negatives" of trading. I do see your point about the charges, but the Disney charge to tradeout is I think about $75.00 to 80.00. I also agree with your points about weekend stays at Disney and trading up, not down, is a good strategy.

Dean you had also asked about some preferences:

We normally need at least 2 bedrooms (and wow don't those 3 bedroom units look nice at Disney and Marriott!).

We definately want to go to Hawaii, California, Chicago and Far Western states within the next 4-6 years, perhaps a Disney Cruise, a yearly 2/3 day early December stay in WDW and an every-other-year trip to WDW (duration normally 5-6 days).

Ah if only we had the time, points or money to do it all now {grin}.

Again, I thank everyone for their help and wisdom!

 

[Dean]

This forum is such font of knowledge....

I own DVC, and was looking at MVC as well, and I have a few questions, if anyone can help.

1. If you buy a floating week at a MVC resort how easy is it to book a particular week for your holiday? How far out can you / should you book?

2. They have resorts with Gold and Gold Holiday Seasons. Are they exclusive or does one include the other?

Thanks guys

In general you've got to be on the phone when they open at exactly the booking window to book high demand weeks but it will vary a lot depending on the resort and the week you want. I am not familiar with any Gold Holiday seasons but every resort has it's own season. All the newer ones are on the Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum and sometimes Platinum Plus system. Some of the older ones are fixed and most of the rest are on various seasons with different wording like sport, holiday, summer, blue, red, etc. Basically what you need to do is get an idea of how the seasons work for the resorts you are looking at and what are the higher demand weeks as well as what weeks you might use. A good example is HH. The older floating weeks for summer are weeks 24-34 but the last 2 resorts (Barony and Surfwatch) have Platinum (summer) as 22-34. That can be good and bad depending on how you use it.

 

[Dean]

1. Why is the Orlando area not a good place to buy for trading purposes? During the sales presentation we attend last April, the rep told us that about 75% of the people buying at the Grand Vista resort or others in that area normally trade out.

Then most of them fell for the sales pitch. Orlando is overbuilt, no way around it. While Orlando has a lot of demand, it has a LOT MORE supply. And the demand vs supply seems to be the biggest factor in trade power along with resort quality. And it's resort quality that saves the Marriott's in Orlando, esp for internal trading.

2. I was surprised that most folks here do not see value in the ability to trade for vacation packages within Marriott Point System. For example, is not say a trade of 180,000 to 200,000 points plus 104.00 (fee might be incorrect) worth a Hawaii vacation which includes air transportation. Is the issue that resales are that much cheaper, as to not justify the upfront costs for only a points trade?

As with anything, there are exceptions. If you plan to go half way around the world and stay at the most expensive Marriott hotels, you can generate value. But remember you're giving maybe $30K to buy a timeshare then paying another fee to trade it for points to get enough points about every other year to stay a week in a hotel and a yearly fee of $600-1000 or more. Then you've got to fight the system to get air reserved with your FF miles and the hotel to hope they have a few reward point rooms, many do not especially during the higher demand times. It's nice to have an option but it simply doesn't make sense. If this is your goal, just keep the $30K in the bank and use the interest plus the money you saved on fees of various types to pay cash.

3. Do Marriott's stated annual maintenance fees include the real estate tax or is it calculated separately?

Generally they include the taxes, I'm not familar with an exception in Marriott but sometimes you might get a tricky salesperson who breaks it down.

Comment: I agree that we found the Marriott fees to be high and mandatory membership fees don't sit well with us. We also found it ironic that the Sales force mentioned the "Florida Club" which allow you to trade out to any resort within the FL area, but again their is a $29.00 annual fee to belong to the "club" which is mandatory.

For the resorts involved, the fee is mandatory. But the high demand weeks won't be available and you can't do a double break up. You can't do a lockoff and partial week using the same unit in the FL club, only one or the other. Not all FL resorts are in the FL club. If I recall correctly, it's only PART of Grand Vista, Ocean Pointe, BeachPlace, Doral and Legend's Edge. The rest of the FL resorts (namely Orlando) are not and part of GV is not.

Dean, you felt that buying some Disney points for trade possibilities is not a good thing to do. Why is that? What are the "negatives" of trading. I do see your point about the charges, but the Disney charge to tradeout is I think about $75.00 to 80.00. I also agree with your points about weekend stays at Disney and trading up, not down, is a good strategy.

Of course it's only my opinion. And, IMO, no high end expensive timeshare is worth owning for trading purposes. Of course it's nice to have options. Lets assume you own 270 points per year and wanted to trade out every year for a 2 BR high season. You're paying essentially $3K a year for that exchange. Some options would be worth it but not others. A 2 BR in Maui or a high season week in Aruba would likely be worth it. But remember as an exchanger you are giving up some things. First if you’re plans change, you’re pretty much stuck. And when you arrive, you are an exchanger and most likely to get the worst units in the place and in some cases have extra fees to book. Besides, most people don’t give up top resorts during peak times so you will almost always be trading down. Much like buying a house where you don’t want to have the most expensive house on the block. And you can buy a timeshare for 10% of what you’d buy DVC that will trade just as well, have yearly fees half or less and give you options DVC does not. These additional options include that you have access to all of II, getaways, bonus weeks and can trade for larger units on line or by phone for the same cost, you can even request a 1 BR at resorts that only have 2 BR effectively trading a 1 BR for a 2 BR on an ongoing serach.

Dean you had also asked about some preferences:

We normally need at least 2 bedrooms (and wow don't those 3 bedroom units look nice at Disney and Marriott!).

We definately want to go to Hawaii, California, Chicago and Far Western states within the next 4-6 years, perhaps a Disney Cruise, a yearly 2/3 day early December stay in WDW and an every-other-year trip to WDW (duration normally 5-6 days).

Ah if only we had the time, points or money to do it all now {grin}.

You’ve got to plan longer than 5-6 years to find what’s best. DCL is easy, pay cash and book 18 months out. Travel out of Xmas, Easter and Summer if you can. If your DVC stays will include weekends at all for the 2-3 days or 2 weekend nights for the 5-6 days, cash is again going to be your best bet BY FAR. Buy AP and chase the codes if need be. I’m not familiar with any timeshares for Chicago but World Mark and Marriott seem to be good choices for the Western type options. Also consider RCI points. And no reason you couldn’t buy a timeshare and trade for those other options, just try to go no peak times and plan at least a year out (preferablly 2) with II and two years out with RCI. Of course you could always look for cash rentals for all of your choices including timeshare rentals.