Disney park expansion compared to Universal

[sonofanarchy]

This isn't meant to be a Disney bashing thread, but more of a "What's the deal?" thread.

The Avatar project was announced before the addition of Harry Potter at Universal. Has ground even been broken on Avatar yet? I'm not sure, but Diagon Alley, Gringots Coaster and Hogwarts Express are all opening this summer, and there is a webcast of all that has been finished so far on January 23.

Nobody can say that Disney has more attention to detail on their attractions than Universal anymore. So seriously, what is the deal with Disney? What is taking them so long to get things finished? Unless it's a DVC addition, new attractions seem to be milked very slow. 7DMT was already in construction for months before the announcement of Gringot's at Universal, and Gringot's is almost done as well.

 

[DavidNYC]

Due to the spotlight on Disney, news breaks far earlier than Universal. Your question pretty much starts the clock ticking at announcement. I guarantee you Harry Potter was in the works long before anyone knew about is. "How long"something actually takes may not be how long it appears to take. Disney is usually spot on with opening things exactly when they say they will. Bigger park too so a lot more going on and upkeep. They're not speedy but you can simply compare time from announcement to opening as an accurate measure.

 

[Son of Gadsden]

I just think they are different companies, different situations, and different attractions.

I don't know what it takes to build a rollercoaster vs bringing a movie scene to life. Combine that with the other projects going on as well at all four of their parks vs Universal's two. Also, if I'm not mistaken, aren't the water parks in a full refurb now? I don't know if the construction teams lose guys to refurbs or if those are a different crew altogether.

Disney keeps a lot of their construction information under wraps, it's hard for us to know how the system goes or what they are going through. As someone who is a manager for a large Construction company, I answer the phone every day to people frustrated with how long one thing is taking, and making arguments about "How come this is done, but this isn't? It doesn't make sense." It does make sense, you just have to be in the situation to know the whole story.

I don't think Disney is dragging their feet on purpose.

 

[sonofanarchy]

I don't know what it takes to build a rollercoaster vs bringing a movie scene to life.

I'm confused. Gringot's Coaster isn't just a roller coaster. In fact, by all accounts, it's going to blow the socks off of 7DMT in terms of visuals.

 

[rangebob]

I think the point that they are trying to make is Disney takes 2+ years to have things built from the groundbreaking time. With Universal it will be a year since they broke ground on HP2 and it will be open. I think they started HP2 world last summer, they built Transformers is what 6 -9 months. If Disney were to build it, it would still be a work in progress.

 

[ArwenMarie]

My theory is that Disney's strategy isn't about building new things to grow their business. Look at the things they keep expanding...princesses, princesses, and more princesses. I think they want every family in America and elsewhere to come and do the once-in-a-lifetime trip, blow a ton of cash, and that's it. My husband just went on a business trip to Brazil and he took a total of four TAM flights and he said on each flight, there was basically an infomercial for Disneyworld before the in-flight entertainment started.

It doesn't matter if attractions are old if you haven't seen them before, they are new to you. I was thinking this on our last trip, even with the shows which should be relatively inexpensive to switch up once in a while.

Same with building FP+...who does it appeal to? The first-timer. They have a bad reputation for lines, guarantee three prebooked attractions before you come. We haven't even seen the marketing for this yet. Just the tip of the iceberg.

Universal is in a different position, they are still in a growth position, they are still hungry and they needed to build new attractions.

Not saying I agree with this, I think it's actually foolish of Disney to treat the parks like this. But that seems to be their strategy and when the only goal is quarterly and yearly profit, then that is what you get. They are good at building DVC because it creates short-term profit.

 

[rebbyparker]

I'm confused. Gringot's Coaster isn't just a roller coaster. In fact, by all accounts, it's going to blow the socks off of 7DMT in terms of visuals.

I can't wait for this!

 

[Laketravis]

I think it's simply a question of current priorities.

At a recent conference attended by both, Universal openly claimed they intend to spend $1B a year for the foreseeable future building and opening new attractions each year.

Disney, on the other hand, openly stated the largest chunk of planned investments had already been made (with MM+) and now the focus is to optimize that program so it begins to produce the revenue it was promised to provide.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney, on the other hand, openly stated the largest chunk of planned investments had already been made (with MM+) and now the focus is to optimize that program so it begins to produce the revenue it was promised to provide.

Doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Enough to pop online and book and extra trip?

 

[Laketravis]

Universal is in a different position, they are still in a growth position, they are still hungry and they needed to build new attractions.

Good point. They are both in much different positions in their business cycles.

One is growing by adding new points of interest, the other is mature and looking for ways to capitalize on what nostalgic equity remains from past (and in some cases very past) investments.

 

[Laketravis]

Doesn't that just make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Enough to pop online and book and extra trip?

It makes me sad, really. I understand how business works, I don't fault Disney at all. There are a lot of different things Disney could do that would improve WDW but certainly they can't do them all so they have to pick what they will do.

What they choose to focus on really seems to be driven by the bean counters (an entire DVC resort is built in less time than a coaster) and that is disappointing.

 

[dwheaton]

This simplifies matters down a lot, but by business-school descriptions, Universal is in the Growth phase, while Disney is in the Maturity phase. In Disney's case, their focus is on maximizing efficiencies and ensuring they make as much profit as possible from existing infrastructure. The challenge for Disney is not moving into the fourth and final phase, which is decline.

 

[surferdave]

I don't know what it takes to build a rollercoaster vs bringing a movie scene to life.

I'm not so sure that argument works with the Harry Potter attractions. I haven't never been to Universal but all reports are that the Potter themed attractions are nothing short of spectacular.

 

[Laketravis]

This simplifies matters down a lot, but by business-school descriptions, Universal is in the Growth phase, while Disney is in the Maturity phase. In Disney's case, their focus is on maximizing efficiencies and ensuring they make as much profit as possible from existing infrastructure. The challenge for Disney is not moving into the fourth and final phase, which is decline.

Exactly.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Good point. They are both in much different positions in their business cycles.

One is growing by adding new points of interest, the other is mature and looking for ways to capitalize on what nostalgic capital remains from past (and in some cases very past) investments.

Exactly.

WDW is in the cash cow phase. Mature product, now they are looking to maximize profit yield and they'll refresh a bit here and there as needed.

 

[ArwenMarie]

This simplifies matters down a lot, but by business-school descriptions, Universal is in the Growth phase, while Disney is in the Maturity phase. In Disney's case, their focus is on maximizing efficiencies and ensuring they make as much profit as possible from existing infrastructure. The challenge for Disney is not moving into the fourth and final phase, which is decline.

True and this is where how they comp their executives comes into play. When everything is about short-term profit, building DVC makes perfect sense, new rides don't.

I do think they will need to refresh a bit to avoid turning into a "dog" but one could argue they are already doing that, New Fantasyland is a good example. How much they will need to do to keep up is another question.

 

[mom2rtk]

The challenge for Disney is not moving into the fourth and final phase, which is decline.

BINGO.

 

[dwheaton]

True and this is where how they comp their executives comes into play. When everything is about short-term profit, building DVC makes perfect sense, new rides don't.

I do think they will need to refresh a bit to avoid turning into a "dog" but one could argue they are already doing that, New Fantasyland is a good example. How much they will need to do to keep up is another question.

I agree that New Fantasyland helps the MK, but they really need to focus on EPCOT. To fit this topic, they're getting lots of profits from the restaurants and shops in World Showcase. However, Future World has been mostly left to idle and become anything but futuristic. Making some changes there would help to draw more crowds and lead to more profits, but it would take investments they don't seem to want to make.

 

[ArwenMarie]

I agree that New Fantasyland helps the MK, but they really need to focus on EPCOT. To fit this topic, they're getting lots of profits from the restaurants and shops in World Showcase. However, Future World has been mostly left to idle and become anything but futuristic. Making some changes there would help to draw more crowds and lead to more profits, but it would take investments they don't seem to want to make.

I agree. Epcot is badly in need of investment in FutureWorld. It's almost depressing at this point.

But on the other hand...look at all of the business they bring in with World Showcase, the festivals, all of the restaurants, drinks, etc. We don't know the numbers, but Epcot could be extremely profitable as is. Which wouldn't give them an incentive to fix FW.

 

[Laketravis]

I agree that New Fantasyland helps the MK, but they really need to focus on EPCOT. To fit this topic, they're getting lots of profits from the restaurants and shops in World Showcase. However, Future World has been mostly left to idle and become anything but futuristic. Making some changes there would help to draw more crowds and lead to more profits, but it would take investments they don't seem to want to make.

Agree 100% - it's really hard to shake the nagging feeling that FW is stuck in time, if not backpedaling. Each time we go I notice the "empty buildings" more and more.

Competitors can sometimes swap business cycles with each other - the possible irony in all of this is that crowds shift to Universal, they find themselves in the same situation of high demand/long lines/unhappy guests, while Test Track, Soarin, and the like become walk-on in the middle of the day.