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[TwoMisfits]

but then how do you separate something that you don't like from something that you truly think is poorly made/of bad quality ... would you call both "bad"?

I mean, there is some classicaly music I find boring but I wouldn't say is bad because I know there is a lot of talent that went into making it ... simiarly with rap music. Some I think is good, some I think is just bad, but some I just don't like but I get why others might like it. So I wouldn't call that "bad" just because I don't like it

Bad movie - good parts...
Bad movie - nothing redeeming...
That's the difference between a bad movie that still has good elements and a bad movie that should be burned and never seen again...

You can still highlight the good individual parts of a movie (the acting, the score, the plot, the special effects, the animation, etc, etc, etc), and accept that it's still a bad movie. Movie critics do that all the time.

 

[maverik85]

Yeah, it should all be assumed to be an opinion. I might say that a certain movie or character "sucks" and then someone will clap back with "that's just your opinion." Well, I mean, yeah, that should be understood. I shouldn't have to preface every statement with "In my opinion," though I have argued with people who think you should - well, they think that everyone else should. anyway. It happens a ton in comic book fan circles as they tend to be pretty precious about the things they like.

I agree with you completely. I do tend to write the "In my opinion" line some but really it is unnecessary because anything you are writing out is obviously your opinion so it's really redundant to write that. Unless you're quoting some source for factual statements or doing a research paper anything written is simply the persons opinion.
I do think people should give some reasoning though when they have a strong opinion one way or another. If you think its a bad movie that's fine but should say why to help feed into discussion versus just saying it's bad. Same if you think it's great, why was it so good for you.

 

[BrianL]

I agree with you completely. I do tend to write the "In my opinion" line some but really it is unnecessary because anything you are writing out is obviously your opinion so it's really redundant to write that. Unless you're quoting some source for factual statements or doing a research paper anything written is simply the persons opinion.
I do think people should give some reasoning though when they have a strong opinion one way or another. If you think its a bad movie that's fine but should say why to help feed into discussion versus just saying it's bad. Same if you think it's great, why was it so good for you.

Oh of course. I was always happy to share the reasons I had, but people still would respond with, "in your opinion," as if I though otherwise. There's also a difference in fan discussion versus an actual critic writing a professional review. I would expect a critic to recognize where the movie was technically good even if they didn't like it overall. That stuff doesn't really matter to the fans though.

 

[Mome Rath]

There are movies that I don't like, but think others might, then there are movies that I don't like that I don't think anyone else will like. It's the latter that I call "bad movies." But, it is all semantics.

Soul was a "pretty good movie" that I'll not watch again, but would recommend to certain people because I know they'd appreciate it. I would also recommend it more broadly with caveats. I would definitely recommend it to more adults I know than kids, but I'm sure there are some kids that would love it. I do think how it was pieced together made it feel... disjointed in some parts. (An example was when he was falling between dimensions and it almost turned into a Fantasia number lol.)

 

[RivShore]

One of the things that confuses me about the "it's just bad" reviews here is how to reconcile it to the 90%+ Fresh scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Critics and the audience at large think it is very far from bad.

 

[jade1]

I wouldn't call Soul a bad movie. But the purpose of watching a movie like Soul is generally entertainment. When my wife was asleep, my 3 kids wandered from the room, and I'm only half-watching, it doesn't matter that the animation was beautiful and the idea of the story was interesting and the score was nice... for my family, it failed as entertainment.

Spoiler

Are we doing spoilers on this one? Anyway, we were kinda the same-but really want to watch it all again after fewer drinks. But I was wondering why he was headed to heaven or the great beyond if he wasn't dead, and also why his family wasn't aware he was in the hospital?

 

[afan]

One of the things that confuses me about the "it's just bad" reviews here is how to reconcile it to the 90%+ Fresh scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Critics and the audience at large think it is very far from bad.

Except anything less than 100% means someone thought it was bad. Just because most people like something doesn't mean everyone does.

Also, it's someone's opinion, what other people think isn't relevant to someone else's opinion. An opinion isn't wrong just because you (general you, not specific) or the other 90+% that enjoyed it don't agree with them.

I don't like beer or wine, I think they're both gross. I would much rather have scotch or whiskey. Lots of people won't agree with me but that doesn't make my opinion any less valid. Same thing applies here.

 

[TwoMisfits]

One of the things that confuses me about the "it's just bad" reviews here is how to reconcile it to the 90%+ Fresh scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Critics and the audience at large think it is very far from bad.

1. Anyone can now be an official critic (change was made relatively recently - aka in the past few years), so Rotten Tomatoes doesn't tend to be a great go by.
2. It wouldn't be the 1st movie that audiences and critics differ wildly. Critics tend to appreciate "newness" and "originality of plot" and "technical beauty" way more than actual entertainment.
3. With no "verified" viewers b/c this movie did not release domestically, the audience score can be "bombed" any way folks want - you don't have to watch it to review it, so the audience score effectively becomes worthless for a straight to digital movie.

TL/DR - Your friends and family and acquaintances are probably better indicators of how the movie is being received.

 

[BrianL]

One of the things that confuses me about the "it's just bad" reviews here is how to reconcile it to the 90%+ Fresh scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Critics and the audience at large think it is very far from bad.

I don't really think "It's just bad" is a well-formed critique, but it can still be someone's opinion. It's an opinion I might dismiss outright without reasons of course. Again, I could give a full critique that includes the good points and still come to a negative conclusion, or I can just talk about why I didn't like something. I do think the why is relevant though.

 

[Mit88]

If you thought Soul was bad, chances are you went into the movie knowing you weren’t going to like it. While there are elements of the story not shown in the trailers, you absolutely can get a sense of the tone of the film through the previews. They didn’t mislead viewers with a deep trailer and then change the tone of the film to a cookie cutter family film. This movie was always advertised as being a deep film with many layers. If it was “boring” you probably expected it to be a completely different movie than what was made. It’s like going on Flight of Passage and being underwhelmed because it wasn’t a rollercoaster.

 

[jknezek]

If you thought Soul was bad, chances are you went into the movie knowing you weren’t going to like it. While there are elements of the story not shown in the trailers, you absolutely can get a sense of the tone of the film through the previews. They didn’t mislead viewers with a deep trailer and then change the tone of the film to a cookie cutter family film. This movie was always advertised as being a deep film with many layers. If it was “boring” you probably expected it to be a completely different movie than what was made. It’s like going on Flight of Passage and being underwhelmed because it wasn’t a rollercoaster.

I think this is very simplistic. Frankly I didn't watch any trailers for Soul nor did I read anything about it other than a few things that popped up here. I knew it was a Pixar film, that's about it. My wife was even less knowledgeable than I before it started. She fell asleep. It just didn't grab us as compelling entertainment. It happens. But I wasn't expecting one thing and got another, other than I was expecting an emotional and entertaining animation film... what Pixar generally provides. This was emotional, but not entertaining to us.

 

[RivShore]

1. Anyone can now be an official critic (change was made relatively recently - aka in the past few years), so Rotten Tomatoes doesn't tend to be a great go by.
2. It wouldn't be the 1st movie that audiences and critics differ wildly. Critics tend to appreciate "newness" and "originality of plot" and "technical beauty" way more than actual entertainment.
3. With no "verified" viewers b/c this movie did not release domestically, the audience score can be "bombed" any way folks want - you don't have to watch it to review it, so the audience score effectively becomes worthless for a straight to digital movie.

TL/DR - Your friends and family and acquaintances are probably better indicators of how the movie is being received.

To your 1st point, they do separate out Top Critics, which has just the more well known news/review sites, rather than including random blogs.

When 3 different data sets point to a similar result, I think it would be safe to assume it applies to the wider audience.

And to your 3rd point, I think much more often than not, the concerted efforts to change an audience score has been on the "rotten" side.

As others have noted, this still means 1 in 10 of each or RT's 3 groups thought it was not good, and that's fine. It's just the "it's bad" with no other commentary that drives some of us to question it for more details to support the relatively rare opinion.

 

[Karin1984]

One of the things that confuses me about the "it's just bad" reviews here is how to reconcile it to the 90%+ Fresh scores on Rotten Tomatoes. Critics and the audience at large think it is very far from bad.

I have said it earlier in the thread, but one of the reasons I think critics rave about it, is because they are mainly creative people who relate to Joe more / more easily. And I do think this movie has from the start a lot of elements critics like. It's similar that there are certain elements in movies that are destined to win an Oscar (

)
That it's Pixar helps, if this movie was made by another studio I am sure response would have been different (and other studios might not have had the opportunity to stream it somewhere in 2020), it's the first animation film featuring a person of colour, the theme of death and finding yourself/purpose. Critics absolutely adore that it is set in New York.
All that brings to 'we have to like this' and probably some people/writers who think 'if the first 10 critics love it, then I should love it too'.

Not saying their opinions aren't genuine, I can imagine that the critics are crying in front of the television 'oh this is so me!'.

I think the opinions here are: some 'This was amazing', some are 'meh it was okay' and some 'this was bad'. I think we are divided quite equally. Which is exactly why we get these discussions, because we differ so much on it. And this is a discussion board and discussions about movies like this is entertaining

If you thought Soul was bad, chances are you went into the movie knowing you weren’t going to like it. While there are elements of the story not shown in the trailers, you absolutely can get a sense of the tone of the film through the previews. They didn’t mislead viewers with a deep trailer and then change the tone of the film to a cookie cutter family film. This movie was always advertised as being a deep film with many layers. If it was “boring” you probably expected it to be a completely different movie than what was made. It’s like going on Flight of Passage and being underwhelmed because it wasn’t a rollercoaster.

I had watched the first trailer when it came out in March. And not really looked at it since. I do not remember thinking anything of it, except that I was excited because it was a new Pixar movie and Pixar puts out good stuff. I was excited for the brand, not the movie or the theme. If I remembered anything I would have expected an upbeat happy suitable for children version of It's a Wonderful Life/Christmas Carol. And in a way, I sorta got that. Based on the first trailer I hadn't imagined it to go so deep. It was okay, liked some parts of it, animation was good, just not really my thing. I didn't get into it.

 

[afan]

If you thought Soul was bad, chances are you went into the movie knowing you weren’t going to like it. While there are elements of the story not shown in the trailers, you absolutely can get a sense of the tone of the film through the previews. They didn’t mislead viewers with a deep trailer and then change the tone of the film to a cookie cutter family film. This movie was always advertised as being a deep film with many layers. If it was “boring” you probably expected it to be a completely different movie than what was made. It’s like going on Flight of Passage and being underwhelmed because it wasn’t a rollercoaster.

But even this is discounting their opinion. I can go on with low, high or no expectations and think something is amazing, awful, bad, fantastic, meh etc.

I think some are hung up on the use of the word bad, some that someone didn't like something they did but only explained themselves by saying it's bad and others with both.

What word would have been better than bad? Saying it was bad and that they turned it of to me is all the explanation I meed to know their opinion. Why does bad need more explation but someone saying I loved it! doesn't? Because they felt the same as you?

Would someone saying WW84 was bad have the same reaction as someone saying it about soul? No because most reviews and comments I've seen have agreed with that. Yet no one questions someone that liked the movie.

Why can't someone just have an opinion of bad without it getting beaten to death for pages? It's not fact, it's an opinion, we all have them and none are wrong just different.

 

[rteetz]

I personally don’t care that much whether you use the word bad or not. I just prefer some explanation. Tell me why you thought that.

 

[afan]

I personally don’t care that much whether you use the word bad or not. I just prefer some explanation. Tell me why you thought that.

But why do you need more then I thought it was bad and I turned it off. It implies they didn't like it. Why does it need an explanation but I loved it doesn't?

I don't see a difference and don't understand why one requires someone to validate their opinion because it's different than yours but them loving it doesn't.

If I say beers bad, I don't drink it you wouldn't ask my why because you can infer that it's because I don't enjoy the taste. Saying a movie is bad and i turned it off is the same thing yet it's the only pne of the two that brings the question.

If someone said they loved WW84 would you ask why?

 

[jkh36619]

I certainly didn't want to persuade anyone else's opinion or say one shouldn't see the movie and judge for themselves. It just wasn't for me. In fact, myself and Rotten Tomatoes more often than not disagree on what a good movie is...

 

[rteetz]

But why do you need more then I thought it was bad and I turned it off. It implies they didn't like it. Why does it need an explanation but I loved it doesn't?

I don't see a difference and don't understand why one requires someone to validate their opinion because it's different than yours but them loving it doesn't.

If I say beers bad, I don't drink it you wouldn't ask my why because you can infer that it's because I don't enjoy the taste. Saying a movie is bad and i turned it off is the same thing yet it's the only pne of the two that brings the question.

If someone said they loved WW84 would you ask why?

I just would like to know thoughts as to why. I don’t see why I can’t ask that. Sure the person doesn’t have to answer. I can ask that if someone who said they loved it too. I didn’t love it but I didn’t think it was bad or terrible. I would be happy to explain why as well.

I have no interest in WW84 and didn’t watch the first one. I have seen plenty explain why they liked or didn’t like that too though.

Saying a movie is bad isn’t comparable to food and beverage in my eyes. I could also ask why the beer is bad. Didn’t know asking questions was a problem

 

[maverik85]

What word would have been better than bad? Saying it was bad and that they turned it of to me is all the explanation I meed to know their opinion. Why does bad need more explation but someone saying I loved it! doesn't? Because they felt the same as you?

Personally I want an explanation for both. This might help me decide if i want to spend the time on it or not if I'm debating on a movie. If the reason you disliked it is something that might not bother me (for instance I've seen people say a movie was bad because of language or violence) then I won't put as much weight behind it as far as how I might like it compared to if it's a reasoning similar to what I might feel. The same goes for liking something. If someone liked the movie a lot, like this one, because they could related and connect with the characters journey versus the humor or action in it then I'm likely not going to connect to it the same way.

 

[afan]

I just would like to know thoughts as to why. I don’t see why I can’t ask that. Sure the person doesn’t have to answer. I can ask that if someone who said they loved it too. I didn’t love it but I didn’t think it was bad or terrible. I would be happy to explain why as well.

I have no interest in WW84 and didn’t watch the first one. I have seen plenty explain why they liked or didn’t like that too though.

Saying a movie is bad isn’t comparable to food and beverage in my eyes. I could also ask why the beer is bad. Didn’t know asking questions was a problem

Never said you couldn't ask for more info. It's all the talk of how bad doesn't explain anything and it wasn't bad thereroe your opinion is wrong even if someone's not directly saying that. Just trying to understand why it's so important to people that the word bad not be used to describe a movie unless they provide more info. Maybe it's just the way the questions and discussion went.

But I also know this hits me as I had an English teacher in college tell me my opinion was wrong, which isn't true as it can't be. So I didn't change my paper on the book and I'm sure whatever grade she gave me on it reflected that. That's also more where I'm coming from, it doesn't matter how descriptive or informational someone's opinion is, it's not wrong just because it's different.

Also beer is nasty, I don't like the way it tastes or smells. Same with coffee, don't like coffee flavored anything. But my saying that and saying it's awful, I don't drink it are the same things.

Personally I want an explanation for both. This might help me decide if i want to spend the time on it or not if I'm debating on a movie. If the reason you disliked it is something that might not bother me (for instance I've seen people say a movie was bad because of language or violence) then I won't put as much weight behind it as far as how I might like it compared to if it's a reasoning similar to what I might feel. The same goes for liking something. If someone liked the movie a lot, like this one, because they could related and connect with the characters journey versus the humor or action in it then I'm likely not going to connect to it the same way.

That makes sense and for me at least, had the questions been more than why did you think it's bad and had info like this to back it up it'd make more sense to me. Though I also felt like it was enough info.