Disney Genie announcement

[quandrea]

I never said good or bad. I was simply pointing out to the poster I quoted that they do not have to "pay more to ride rides". They would only be paying to shorten their wait time, if they so choose. They still have the option to ride without paying additional. Seems like that's a big misconception that needs constant clarifying here.

That seems like semantics to me. Genie+ signifies a significant dilution of the value of one’s park ticket. What could be had as an inclusion under the FP+ system, can no longer be accomplished without an up charge. I see no need for constant clarification.

 

[Cabius]

That seems like semantics to me. Genie+ signifies a significant dilution of the value of one’s park ticket. What could be had as an inclusion under the FP+ system, can no longer be accomplished without an up charge. I see no need for constant clarification.

It's not semantics. There's a world of difference between "you have to pay for FP+ now" and "you cannot ride any rides without paying an additional per-ride fee". The OP was straight-up mistaken about the facts.

That doesn't mean Jafar+ doesn't still suck, or that the value of the ticket is diluted. But clarification in the face of misinformation is a good thing.

 

[bunkerchump]

Correct, I just renewed my annual pass.

Common sense would say you only pay the new annual pass few once. Then renew every year after that..... But maybe I'm missing something here.....

However, even at 900 dollars per year, and the 24 days a year I go, its less that $38 dollars per day per person. That is cheap by my math! I actually just spent more lunch for my son and I to get sushi.

Also I find the amount ironic, A few years ago I was pricing out health insurance since my employer had purchased the company a platinum plan, and was only paying the absolute minimum he had to, basically he complied with the law by pricing all of us out of the plan....

Anyway when I went through the health care connector and I was told I need to pay $720 dollars per month more for my health insurance (from the state connector site) than I could have purchased the exact same insurance from my insurance agent because I made to much. How is that "fair"?
All things are relative.

I would like to point out the Disney, as much as we all love it, is a luxury, No argument can be make for needed to go to Disney. Health insurance is not a luxury!

Disney, again, as much as we all love it, is a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS!
They derive those profits for "GUESTS" AND PAY THOSE PROFITS TO SHAREHOLDERS!

I for one look forward to my dividend checks.

Disney's duty is to maximize shareholder profits . They have a plan, if it works (people pay the added costs) the share holders are happy, the CEO keeps his job, and bonuses.
If the plan doesn't work, people stop going to Disney or don't pay for the Genie etc, shareholder get made, CEO gets fired free fast pass MAY come back...

You vote with your pocket book or wallet, If Disney has priced themselves out of the market don't go. My guess is that ticket prices will continue to rise, and the parks will still be full.

But If the day ever comes when ticket prices have risen so much that I can no longer afford to go to Disney, I will have to stop going. It is that simple.

Disney duty to the guests is to have safe, clean, exciting parks and fun parks. They have done that.

I'm a shareholder and I don't like what I'm perceiving as a fleecing and risk of abandonment of a passionately supportive demographic, profitable base. I think it is a very short-sided plan and I'm afraid that once these folks get fed up to the point where they leave - it will take A LOT to get them back - if ever. Seems to me a lot of folks are at a tipping point.. I'm one of them...

And it's not just about pricing some people out of the market - it is the experience you provide to keep people paying the prices you demand. We who are passionate know the costs that have been extracted out of the business in the form of countless CMs many of whom may never return. Not all of the CMs directly entertain us. Many indirectly - i.e. Preventative Maintenance. How much short term savings were realized to maintain attractions like LWTL which has now been down for how many days now.? (BTW, that's one of my all time favorite attractions - so I'd be quite PO'd to have been there last week into this week....). And let's be honest - ROTR is NOT in proper working order, and/or corners were cut to develop and build a headliner attraction where only a relatively small % of it's guest base can possibly experience.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

I'm a shareholder and I don't like what I'm perceiving as a fleecing and risk of abandonment of a passionately supportive demographic, profitable base. I think it is a very short-sided plan and I'm afraid that once these folks get fed up to the point where they leave - it will take A LOT to get them back - if ever. Seems to me a lot of folks are at a tipping point.. I'm one of them...

And it's not just about pricing some people out of the market - it is the experience you provide to keep people paying the prices you demand. We who are passionate know the costs that have been extracted out of the business in the form of countless CMs many of whom may never return. Not all of the CMs directly entertain us. Many indirectly - i.e. Preventative Maintenance. How much short term savings were realized to maintain attractions like LWTL which has now been down for how many days now.? (BTW, that's one of my all time favorite attractions - so I'd be quite PO'd to have been there last week into this week....). And let's be honest - ROTR is NOT in proper working order, and/or corners were cut to develop and build a headliner attraction where only a relatively small % of it's guest base can possibly experience.

I'm Also a share holder.

Since you brought up preventative maintenance, let take a look at maintenance cost. If any company can charge 20 percent more and get 80 percent of the people to still use their services, that company will make the same gross income, however their maintenance cost will be cut by 20 percent.

The guest that still chose to enjoy the attractions will have crowed that are 20 percent smaller, etc. etc. etc.

The bottom line is Disney used to have a lot of perceived "free" value. The cost was always there, you just didn't know about it.

Now things that only some people find value in have been removed, or a served a la cart.

You can still get a fast pass, by any name you just have to pay for it.
You can still get a photo pass, you just have to pay for it.

I'm ok with the changes and will continue to go.

I STRONGLY, recommend anyone that is not ok with the changes to purchase a share and voice their opinion at the next stock holder meeting, OR and this will me heard much sooner by the powers that be.... Stop buying tickets.

If what Disney has done, has you so upset, don't go.
The market research teams will figure it out quickly, Disney will bring things back, or make other changes.

Complaining on here, or even on the Disney website, then going to the parks and paying for all the extras just isn't going to get you anywhere.

If Disney (or any other company) has priced them selves out of the market they will find out quickly, but only if all of you take your next vacation anywhere but Disney.

Again, I don't want to pay for fast pass, photo pass and VC for ROTR ( I though the ride was a joke) now if you could go all Han Solo take their blaster and start shooting them that would be cool...

The best thing for Disney to do, is try the a la cart model and see how it goes, It wouldn't be the first Disney flop and if it is a flop it won't be their last.

I like the new system, because I don't feel like I'm being forced to pay for something I'm not going to use. But like any show, and Disney is a big show, the success of failure happens at the ticket booth, not the internet.

 

[bunkerchump]

I'm Also a share holder.

Since you brought up preventative maintenance, let take a look at maintenance cost. If any company can charge 20 percent more and get 80 percent of the people to still use their services, that company will make the same gross income, however their maintenance cost will be cut by 20 percent.

The guest that still chose to enjoy the attractions will have crowed that are 20 percent smaller, etc. etc. etc.

==

Absolutely not. Cost is your cost. Cost as a % of revenue will decrease yes, but disney is no doubt decreasing the amount they are spending on PMs. And it shows. As an example, if we use your math, let's say I rent a house at $2K per month and included in my expenses is preventative maintenance of my central AC unit of $300. If I increase my rent to $3K a month, but keep expenses the same, my expenses decrease? They don't - they stay the same - I've just made more profit. Translation into this example, Disney is Increasing the rent and decreasing their cost... and thus increasing their profits.... "IF" the same amount of people attend the parks. If not, revenue decreases while costs also decrease.... maybe that is their plan, but considering they are still building resorts, I wouldn't think so.... Excellent if you can get away with it.... Time will tell.....

And we all get that we have a choice - You obviously love the concept of G+, can afford it, and are more than willing to pay for it. That's your opinion - Many others either cannot afford it, can afford it and don't want to pay for it, or just do not like the concept - or other reasons they are all entitled to just as you are.

 

[Robbie Cottam]

Absolutely not. Cost is your cost. Cost as a % of revenue will decrease yes, but disney is no doubt decreasing the amount they are spending on PMs. And it shows. As an example, if we use your math, let's say I rent a house at $2K per month and included in my expenses is preventative maintenance of my central AC unit of $300. If I increase my rent to $3K a month, but keep expenses the same, my expenses decrease? They don't - they stay the same - I've just made more profit. Translation into this example, Disney is Increasing the rent and decreasing their cost... and thus increasing their profits.... "IF" the same amount of people attend the parks. If not, revenue decreases while costs also decrease.... maybe that is their plan, but considering they are still building resorts, I wouldn't think so.... Excellent if you can get away with it.... Time will tell.....

And we all get that we have a choice - You obviously love the concept of G+, can afford it, and are more than willing to pay for it. That's your opinion - Many others either cannot afford it, can afford it and don't want to pay for it, or just do not like the concept - or other reasons they are all entitled to just as you are.

Really.
Do you can run a million people though the park or 800,000 people though the park and the maintenance cost are the same ?

I’m calling BS.

 

[bunkerchump]

So your saying WDW wants to run less people through their parks to justify lower spend? To justify less wear and tear on their attractions????

 

[Robbie Cottam]

So your saying WDW wants to run less people through their parks to justify lower spend? To justify less wear and tear on their attractions????

I’m saying that is was an argument to someone else’s argument.
That’s what this has turned into, a Disney sucks argument….
So I provided a possible alternate points of view.

However, from a purely academic point of view, IF a company can charge more and that results in "run(ing) less people through their parks to justify lower spend? To justify less wear and tear on their attractions....

If gross revenue stays the same, and the wear and tear goes down, even by 10 percent not 20. Doesn't the company realize a substantial savings?

All the parts on the rides have a life limit. May guess is it not only time but cycles.
A door can only open and close so many times before it needs to be fixed
Walls can only be touched so many times before the need paint.

Yes the roof is going to last x number of years if no one is in the part or a million people are in the park.
Rides that sit and are not used will actually be in worst condition that one the is used heavily, but that get used just not as often will need less maintenance.

I worked for a company that was the highest price jet operator on the market. We got laughed at we were so expensive. But at the end of the year, we made the same money as the guys the flew twice as much, but had half the maintenance cost. Our airplanes were not trashed out like the other guys, and we almost never had a break down.

People will gladly pay more for quality perceived or other wise.

So if less people are in the parks because they feel like they are getting ripped off having to pay for something that used to be free,

Some one else will pay more to go to a park that has a little more space and short lines.

 

[bunkerchump]

I’m saying that is was an argument to someone else’s argument.
That’s what this bored has turned into, a Disney sucks argument….
So I provided a possible alternate points of view.

These boards are a place for people to safely voice their opinon good and bad. Just because many people here don't like Genie, doesnt mean we are DIsney Haters. We don't have to love everything they do. We can be critical and believe me, they are hearing the negativity (and probably planned for it). Let's just agree to disagree on this one... Nothing but love for ya Robbie. I respect your opinon...

 

[Robbie Cottam]

First, I'm pretty sure you could safely call Disney and tell them how you feel, In fact I know you can do that because I have done it more than a few times when things haven't been magical.

I also know you could safely speak to a cast member and voice these concerns directly to them, even though they have no power to do anything about it, I'm sure senior cast members would listen, take notes and forward you concerns.

So this forum is not your only recourse here.

And Yes, I agree you are entitle to your opinion, I totally agree.

However, Perceptions are Realities

From my stand point, my opinion, that I'm glad you respect is that this thread has turned in to Disney suck because they are trying something new.

This thread will not get Disney to go back to the fast past system.
This thread will not get Disney to lower park passes. (nor do I believe they should)
This thread is a great place for people to let out there frustrations, however, if you want to change something, you have to look at both sides of the problem objectively.

If anyone from this thread goes to Disney buys the new annual passes, what ever flavor, buys the Genie and the LL and then sits in the park and complains they are going to ruin their own vacation and the vacation of people they come in contact with.

SO AGREE TO DISAGREE SURE, but please don't go if you are at your tipping point.

 

[bunkerchump]

However, Perceptions are Realities

Some common ground we can definitely agree on for sure.

 

[DisneyFive]

This back and forth is getting boring. Just saying.

Dan

 

[Disney Bobby]

Disney is getting too cute with their IT micromanagement of the parks. Going to be a mess and ruin the experience for many. Some of the best technology is the technology that isn't a hassle to manage or just completely transparent to the people it's helping. This just feels like more scheduling on top of the scheduling you already do plus extra fees. It's becoming a major project management initiative just to go to Disney, and if you don't participate, you are pretty much guaranteed a bad experience.

 

[nkereina]

That seems like semantics to me. Genie+ signifies a significant dilution of the value of one’s park ticket. What could be had as an inclusion under the FP+ system, can no longer be accomplished without an up charge. I see no need for constant clarification.

Two very different concepts. The poster I quoted seemed to believe they needed to pay additional to ride rides once they got in the park and that's just not true. Genie+ is optional and you can still ride rides without spending another dime once you enter the gates. That's a fact.

You're talking about relative value of the park ticket, which is totally different. I don't disagree that some of the value is lost now that the former FP queues can only be used by paying extra. But, that doesn't change the fact that it's inaccurate to say you *must* pay extra to ride rides. That's simply not true.

Clearly, it does need clarification because you're talking about two different things.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

This back and forth is getting boring. Just saying.

Dan

From one Dan to another....yeah....

Hopefully in the next few days something useful will come about and be posted. Like when this might be implemented, and after that, how it ACTUALLY works.

 

[Stephy811]

From one Dan to another....yeah....

Hopefully in the next few days something useful will come about and be posted. Like when this might be implemented, and after that, how it ACTUALLY works.

I agree…I liked the fp+ system and felt like we always got everything we wanted with a little persistence. I’m trying to reserve judgment until I have details on Genie+…but just throwing out “fall 2021” then no details is really frustrating for those of us with upcoming trips. At least let me know timeline and prices so I can plan. I really think the lack of details is causing alot of the negative feedback (certainly not all)…if they had just rolled out with all the details people would have moved on to planning (or canceling or whatever they decide to do) but just leaving us to guess is just leading to more debate and angst!

 

[lorileahb]

I'm a planner by nature, and we've done Disney and taken advantage of all the tips and tricks... rarely, if ever, wait more than 20 mins for a ride - usually riding everything we want including headliners.

That said, I think patience and waiting is a virtue that is soon going to be lost on the generation growing up. There is nothing wrong with my kids (or me) having to wait for something that is worth the wait - and to have to decide this versus that... gives them a chance to learn what they value/prefer more... life skills.

Knowing it will never happen, I would LOVE to go back to sell X number of tickets per day (whatever that number is to maintain manageable crowds), one price for a ticket no up-charges - and just walk around - same lines / shows / attractions for all - random characters walking around at random times.

Mobile ordering is the one thing I see as a true value add that I would keep.

I don't come to the parks to be glued to my phone or throw money out the window for things that should be part of being in the park. I come to the park to share the time and magic with my family and friends.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

I think the biggest concern is that a lot of those virtual cue spots will now be used by those that are willing to pay for that spot. This ride already has a fairly limited capacity, so this will make it more difficult, if not impossible, for most families to get a virtual boarding group.

Disclaimer... the following is pure speculation on my part.

I think that they would still give out the same number of BGs at 7 am that they usually do. Remember.... obtaining a BG does not guarantee you will be able to ride. Throughout the day, as people pay for IA$ access to ROTR (or Remy), they will get priority over those with a BG #. That will slow down the normal progression of getting through the BGs, meaning more people with higher BG #'s might not get to ride because others who paid for IA$ caused fewer BGs to be called that day.

How many BGs will actually be affected? That depends on how many people pay for IA$. If there are already a lot of IA$ reservations, they might not have a second BG drop at 1 pm because they might already be projecting that they won't get through all of the BGs distributed in the morning. But, again, that all depends on how many people are willing to pay extra for that one ride.

My point is, I don't think they need to "hold back" any BG slots for IA$. Those who purchase IA$ will simply get priority and slow down how quickly the BGs get called throughout the day. The end result is the same... those who pay will ride and some who didn't pay (even though they may have obtained a BG) will not get to.

We're only visiting MK for the 50th next month, and then probably not back to WDW until 2023, so there will be plenty of time for me to observe how things pan out with BGs and IA$ before we actually get thrown into the fray. I'm very interested to see how this affects ROTR. Those with low BG #'s would almost certainly not pay, those with no BG may be more inclined to pay since the alternative will be no chance of riding. But what about those with high BG #'s? Do they gamble on getting called? Or as the minutes tick by and the end of the day approaches (and still X # of BGs from their #), do they break down and pay to guarantee a ride?

 

[btuftee]

I think that they would still give out the same number of BGs at 7 am that they usually do. Remember.... obtaining a BG does not guarantee you will be able to ride.

Hmm I was not aware of that - I figured if you got a boarding group it meant you pretty much had a slot in line (unless you just mean that no one is guaranteed to ride anything, because rides break down - in that case, yes, having a BG could be meaningless if the ride is out of commission half the day). If the free BG slots can be entirely displaced by IA$, that will be a problem I think. Disney still wants to maintain some balance of "free" and "pay for priority", I think the backlash will rise greatly if it turns out that ROTR and Rat effectively become paid add-ons on the busiest of days and no one gets to ride them with the base park admission ticket. I don' t know what the fraction will be, but I am fairly confident there will be a split between the free BGs and the maximum allotment of IA$.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

Hmm I was not aware of that - I figured if you got a boarding group it meant you pretty much had a slot in line (unless you just mean that no one is guaranteed to ride anything, because rides break down - in that case, yes, having a BG could be meaningless if the ride is out of commission half the day). If the free BG slots can be entirely displaced by IA$, that will be a problem I think. Disney still wants to maintain some balance of "free" and "pay for priority", I think the backlash will rise greatly if it turns out that ROTR and Rat effectively become paid add-ons on the busiest of days and no one gets to ride them with the base park admission ticket. I don' t know what the fraction will be, but I am fairly confident there will be a split between the free BGs and the maximum allotment of IA$.

Ride breaking down is a significant factor (especially for ROTR) in how many BGs they get to each day. But there are probably also times when they just aren't operating at peak efficiency and BGs get called more slowly as a result. There are almost always higher # BGs that don't get called each day. Adding IA$ into the mix will likely push some of those BGs on the borderline of getting called or not to the right and they don't get called because others got priority.

Even for ROTR, I don't envision IA$ replacing the majority of BG slots. That would require LARGE quantities of guests willing to spend a LOT just to ride that one ride. But theoretically, if enough are willing to pay, it could significantly reduce the number of free BG guests who get to ride.

Low BG numbers shouldn't get affected drastically, but those with higher BG #'s would have their chance of getting called reduced slightly every time someone pays for IA$ access to the ride.